Full Steam Ahead!

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's - Engine man asks please, explain  "what is the reason to use this twin gas tank?" - my  :idea: thinking is that I will get approx 30 minutes run time on one filling of water & gas so if I had twice the gas capacity it would eliminate the need to remove the single gas tank for a refill..... - just an idea  :?:  :?: - Derek

[Engineman]

Hi Derek-
Your answer is rather evident  and expected Upto my engineerig experience it is not a good thing to use 'twins'. For sure it is possible but tricky. If I were you I'd better try to find a bigger one <gas tank> or implement a standard small gas canister with adaptor.
I guess you can purchase a big CHEDDAR tank from Marten, Howes&Baylis or try Mr.Hemmen's big new one.  
Cheers,
Engineman

[derekwarner_decoy]

Thanks Engineman & hi PD's - I think it best to put the thoughts of a twin tank on the BACKBURNER - if I have to stop for water & without a check valve & hand pump I need 30 minutes to vent & cool the boiler so may as well use this time to remove & refil the refil the 'GAZattack'  out of the vessel so as not to get a big :boom as I have been  warned could result if the tank were re-filled in the vessel :rant

I haven't asked ACS on the progress of the slide valve engines, but Sandy has mentioned he is very busy & has also experienced a machining center glitch adding to delays   ....... Derek

[thewharfonline]

Was that your decoy model Derek?

[Engineman]

Hi Derek-

As you don't want to use feed pump I want to recommend you to add any sort of gas attenuator onto your steam plant. In some cases this simple thing can seriously help to save boiler water and gas. To save your time  for water refilling of the boiler you can use the check valve and removable water handpump.

Cheers,
Engineman

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD’s & yes Sean that was my SOS [stand off scale] of PS Decoy – please remember in the original YAHOO PD site back five years ago, I explained that I drew the plans for my PS Decoy from two 2” x 2” photographs from one our great little OZ books……..& hence many dimensional errors resulted…….but she [PS Decoy] keeps me happy….like …. just wondering how in the bloo…..dy  heck can I position the JMC3H & still get servo attachments to work………….. regards Derek  
         
 
From: thewharfonline [mailto:livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Monday, 3 April 2006 8:45 PM
 To: livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: RE: Full Steam Ahead!  
 
   
Was that your decoy model Derek?
 
 
 
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[derekwarner_decoy]

From: Derek Warner [mailto:dlwarner@bigpond.net.au]
 Sent: Sunday, 9 April 2006 12:43 AM
 To: 'Philip Handcock'
 Cc: admin@paddleducks.co.uk; ACSengineering
 Subject: Twin Gas tanks.  
   
Hi & thanks Phil for the response –  in my original request I listed both top & bottom banjo connections between tanks – assumed as one filling port only & possibly a tapping for a pressure gauge – I understand our respected PD members Sandy from ACS &  ENGINEMAN from Zengreb questions/concerns, however with both top & bottom cross connection as shown in the French builders work [Daniel Bourard] I think that all will be OK  
   
So cross connection between tanks by banjo fittings on both upper & lower planes [+ one filling port + one discharge valve + one gauge port on the upper plane], naturally the interconnecting mounting foot plate would need to be negative or deeper than the cross connection  1/8” tube  
   
I measure my GAS tank S/No 473 as 2” diameter  x 5.056” overall & the mounting foot print 2.34” wide – if the two tanks had say 3/16” clearance shell to shell would be fine – the current foot mounting protrusion from the shell appears to be ¼” so this would be OK in a twin assembly  
   
Eddy – firstly, could you repost this back to PD’s & you may wish to review & consider www.forest-classics.co.uk , but for my 2 & 6 pence worth I think we could add it to our PD links – thanks - Derek  
   
   
   
       
 
From: Philip Handcock [mailto:philanddee@tiscali.co.uk]
 Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 6:01 PM
 To: dlwarner@bigpond.net.au
 Subject: Twin Gas tanks.  
   
Hello Derek, Many apoligies for the delay in replying to you.  We can build a twin tank setup with 4mm compression fitting silver soldered in the centre top of each for linking the tanks. Can you please clarify weather you want the tanks cross connected on the bottom and what kind of mounting you require on the tanks. We will then give you a quote. best regards Phil.  
www.forest-classics.co.uk The UK's Number One Mamod Dealer  
   
         
 
From: Engineman [mailto:livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Monday, 3 April 2006 9:57 PM
 To: livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: RE: Full Steam Ahead!  
 
   
Hi Derek-
 
 As you don't want to use feed pump I want to recommend you to add any sort of gas attenuator onto your steam plant. In some cases this simple thing can seriously help to save boiler water and gas. To save your time for water refilling of the boiler you can use the check valve and removable water handpump.
 
 Cheers,
 Engineman
 
 
 
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[Engineman]

New pieces and bits to come...

[derekwarner_decoy]

Looking pretty good Enginman :kewl & a real credit to you - a bit difficult to tell, but you appear to have used more steel in componentry than other propriety built engines eg., Anton, JMC & Maxwell Hemmens who seem to favour bronze or brass... how will you keep the non painted? [crank shaft valve slide spindles]........... from corrosion? - again I think that some of the proprietry manufacturers may use a chemical blackening


I see the cylinder caps are finished nicely with hex studs & nuts over  slotted head screws [as in my JMC 3H] - do you use BA fastners or is there a metric [Contential] type version of model engineer threads? - as Sandy says keep up the good work - regards Derek

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD’s & sorry Engineman – I’d best correct myself here as the cylinder covers & slide valve covers are retained by hex bolts – the engine block supporting columns stubs are secured are screwed & secured by hex nuts…… all still superb anyway - Derek  
         
 
From: derekwarner_decoy [mailto:livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Monday, 10 April 2006 4:19 PM
 To: livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: RE: Full Steam Ahead!  
 
   
Looking pretty good Enginman & a real credit to you - a bit difficult to tell, but you appear to have used more steel in componentry than other propriety built engines eg., Anton, JMC & Maxwell Hemmens who seem to favour bronze or brass... how will you keep the non painted? [crank shaft valve slide spindles]........... from corrosion? - again I think that some of the proprietry manufacturers may use a chemical blackening
 
 
 I see the cylinder caps are finished nicely with hex studs & nuts over slotted head screws [as in my JMC 3H] - do you use BA fastners or is there a metric [Contential] type version of model engineer threads? - as Sandy says keep up the good work - regards Derek
 
 
 
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[Engineman]

Hi Derek,

Thank you for the copmpliments. I guess you're not right yet - brass  is a preference of ANTON or JMC (not so evident thou) but not the only choice for John Hemmens or Stuart. It is better to have wearing faces made of steel and bronze (phosphore bronze is the best one) rather than brass to brass-that's the main idea.  I'm not afraid of corrosion because all of the steel parts of my engine are made from nickel (stainless) steel   . It is rather expensive way - but my engine is not a serial one.
What about nuts'n'bolts and other fittings etc. - I use mostly metric standard (even I admire Imperial scale).

How the progress with your's pretty handsome PS DECOY is coming along?  

Cheers,
Engineman

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD’s – I have a continuing issue with the mechanical strength of the reversing gear linkage shaft & the securing of it in my JMC 3H engine – the first snap shows my engine linkage with the hex allen key in the 2 mm diameter hollow pointed grub screw that locks the arm to the shaft, but the 2 mm diameter shaft has an unsupported length of 29 mm – when I questioned the shaft deflection & resultant stripped thread with JMC on receipt, the only result was a posted envelope with a new linkage arm & 3 x additional HPGS but not a written word – the engine is superb – it’s just the language bit!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
   
I am now using a servo slowdown set to 5 seconds to actuate the reversing function, but still get shaft deflection which results in incomplete reversing valve movement and after a short number of actuations the HPGS is loose despite Loctite primer & a drop of 243 Stud Lock– interestingly when we view the second snap of a similar JMC sized vertical engine we see the reversing gear shaft supported by a center journal  
   
I have considered mechanically locking by soldering a 5/32 “ square brass tube filled & soldered with a 1/8” diameter brass rod between the two outboard linkages arms and back to the center control linkage arm so that the new cross member would accept the greater portion of the rotary torque movement….. any thoughts appreciated – Derek  
   
Oh PS ………watch out for that Easter bunny……………………  
         
 
 

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[Eddy Matthews]

There appears to be two problems to me Derek - The shaft is unsupported so it flexes as the arm moves to engage the reverse mechanism, and secondly the shaft is so thin that it will also twist under load.

Personally I'd look at making an extra centre support to stop the flexing, and also see how easy it would be to increase the shaft diameter to stop twisting.

I'm certainly not an engineer, but that's my suggestion for what it's worth! :-)

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD’s & thanks Eddy – if I think of the JMC3H in the scale @ 1:25 in soft conversion we find – [sometimes thinking in inches” + parts there of is easier for mature age PD members that were trained in Christian denominations & not those metric units………………….]  
   
the 10 mm bore x 10 mm stroke engine = an actual 10” bore x 10” stroke  
the 4 mm output shaft = an actual 4” diameter output shaft  
the 2 mm reversing gear shaft = an actual 2” diameter shaft  
   
A little rule of thumb nail dipped in tar engineering calculation would suggest that the relationship of 10:4:2 on diameter is totally acceptable, so I must question the flexural moment created by original design in the reversing gear shaft due to mounting centers ………………. – as mentioned off line to Sandy earlier this evening, ‘I would not give ten dead rats, slugs or snails – even if they were blessed with garlic sauce’ to an engine manufacturer who ignores questions from the other side of the world after BANQUEING my hard earned AUD of + $1015.00……….disgruntled Derek in OZ  
         
 
From: Eddy Matthews [mailto:livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Friday, 14 April 2006 6:58 PM
 To: livesteam@paddleducks.co.uk <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  
 
   
There appears to be two problems to me Derek -……………………………………Regards Eddy
 
 
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[Engineman]

Eddy is absolutely right, Derek. You need to make some sort of support brackets to fight this problem. Very interesting what do JMC thinking about as the vertical 'versions' have more or less proper design?