Steering Waverley and balanced rudders

[Mike Mayhew]

Hi to all of you out there, the question of scale steering in any paddle steamer model is quite simple. A true scale rudder which in most steamers was of the Barn Door type, ie. hinged on the fore edge, put a considerable strain on the steering mech. and in a model needs a very strong servo. The Balanced rudder however, with at least 1/3rd forward of the shaft is much easier on the controls and gives much better bite in the stream of water flowing past. In my case a standard servo does the steering fine. The rudder being some 6" x 3"!!. Remember in a screw vessel the flow of water is directly on to the rudder, but a paddler has to get way on first before any flow at all goes over the rudder. Look at the size of the rudders on the Murry steamers. These were huge Barn doors, and I am informed by a local Echuca skipper took some effort to control and were almost impossible to turn when astern..

My motor only draws half of what you say, with a full battery 12v 300amh HD truck type I get more than a full days steaming and have covered 29 miles at Sea with pleanty of power left.

Re my comments about single drive to the Fixed paddle shaft, I have seen independent drives and the models do things that could never have been done in reality, the only ships that could do spins etc were the Director Tugs{1950's} Grinder,Faithful Forceful etc. These were diesel electric with a 60 Ft beam!
Steering on Waverley is quite simple. Servo with extended arms to give 60mm. ie 30mm radius tow nylon braided cords set in plastic tubes to the rudder head which has a quadrant of 25mm Radius. Cords are secured to each end of quadrant and cross over before entering tubes to servo. Rudder travel is 35 degrees each way, any more and it will act as a brake.
Derek, if you let me have your address I will send pics and drawings as I am not too sure as to how to send via this system perhaps you could scan and let others see.
Weeroona was built in Scotland and sailed out to Australia. She spent muct of her time around Victoria. Used as a hospital ship during last war in Philipines. Twin stacks fine looking ship. It rains here in UK sometimes like hell so wiper motors are available
, but radiator fan motors are lighter and seem to have more power and speed for less amps. Look at some of the Printer motors ffom your PC!! excellent very powerful and not too fast. Your old Mate Mike

[Dai Powell]

Hi there,
Mike mayhew mentioned using PC printer motors, the printer
motors I have come across from printers have been "stepper"motors
which have many mulicoloured leads coming out of them, hoe does one
find out which leads to use to power the motor so that it runs
continuously? the beauty of these motors is of course that they are
cheap (free from a service shop that is discarding them) It seems
that one needs to be a panelbeater or crash repairer here in
victoria, to be able to locate what we in Aussie used to call a
wreckers yard where one could either go in and help ones-self and
pay for the goods at the office, or get them from their "store"
If anyone in the Victoria BC area knows of a "wrecker's yard please
contact me off line.................Dai Powell

[Mike Mayhew]

Hi there Dai Powell, a real Aussi name? or from the Valleys, The stepper
motors you mention need the control chip with them and are useful for radar
motors. The printer motors I use are IBM printers and have a long toothed
belt attached to the print arm. Try ford radiator fan motors.Best Regards
..... Mike Mayhew
http://www.waverleymodels.co.uk

[Dennis Kerr]

Hi All,

Just a bit about paddleboat handling, I was skipper of P.S. "PYAP"
out of Swan Hill on the Murray for a couple of years. I had to turn
the boat in quite a small pond as we tied up at the Pioneer
Settlement which is on an anabranch of the Loddon River. we were
stbd side to and I would put the rudder hard to stbd, let everything
go and edge ahead on the engines, this would throw the stern out
from the wharf. At about 45 degrees to the wharf, hard a port and
engine astern this would put the stern in a calm spot and the flow
would swing the bow downstream, Hard to starboard to swing into a
tight right hand bend then down to meet the Murray. At the junction
of the two rivers we had to put stbd helm on before the bow entered
the Murray to meet the flow and the vessel would swing into line
upstream.

Swinging the five foot wheel (cable steering ) built up good arm
muscles as a lot of this manoever would happen fast, especially when
the rivers were in flood.

As the vessel only drew 1'11" windage was a problem and at times up
to 30 degrees leeway was required.

Turning around upstream was acomplished by coming close to the port
bank, going hard to starboard and stopping engines, the bow would go
out into midstream, wheel midships and then slow astern and stick
the rudder in the bank then let the current carry the bow around to
face downstream, and off you go.

Passing through the Swan Hill lift bridge was interesting as vessels
coming downstream were not allowed to just steam through but had
to "round up". This was a process where the vessel would turn around
upstream of the bridge and "drop through" stern first. This was
easier than it sounds as the river may be flowing at 4 knots and two
knots vessel speed was required for steerage that meant that the
vessel was actually going downstream at two knots, nice and slow.
Much safer than hurtling towards the narrow bridge opening at two
knots and four knots of flow, one misjudgement, one hundred tons of
paddleboat and one ex bridge then two very irate communities on
seperate sides of the river.

The project I am involved in has a web www.maritimecharity.org.au
have a look and at any time paddleducks are up this way you are most
welcome to drop in. I live on a boat at the marina so am here all
the time.

Denis.

[Derek Warner]

on Monday, September 30, 2002 4:14 AM, mike mayhew came back with some very interesting points & info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>snip - the Balanced rudder however, with at least 1/3rd forward of the shaft is much easier on the controls
>and gives much better bite in the stream of water flowing past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks Mike - I read this @ 7.00 AM before work this morning and have been thinking of vectors & force diagrams
all day - so please correct me if the following thought is out of wack

If we considered a non balanced rudder 90 mm in total length and the rudder axis on the leading edge we get two
things

1) is the effort to rotate the rudder = say X,
2) the resultant movement [rotation] moment of the vessel = say Y

However if we considered a balanced rudder 90 mm in total length with the rudder axis 30 mm from the leading edge
we get a different scenario

3) is the effort to rotate the rudder = X multiplied by 2/3 [or 30% less effort to do the same work]
4) the resultant movement [rotation] moment of the vessel = Y and is still constant with the resultant @ 1)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>snip - my motor only draws half of what you say, with a full battery 12v 300amh HD truck type I get more than a full
>days steaming and have covered 29 miles at Sea with pleanty of power left
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No excuse on my part that the Brisbane Lions beat Meelbourne Collingwood in the league grand final [and that I
must have consumed one or two extra LITTLE drinks which clearly impared my logical thought] - just because my
car has 155Kw of engine power available, I seriously doubt that I would have ever 1/3 of that - so same must apply
to any PD electric motor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

regards to you and all other Pd's - Derek