Getting started with paddlers

[Soapy]

I'm new on board and have enjoyed having a troll round the forum looking for information and generally having a good read, but now it's time for some serious stuff!

The subject is 'getting started' so, first the background. I am now decided that a paddler is definitely my next build (otherwise I wouldn't still be hanging about, I guess) but, a decision is still to be made about what to make! I like a challenge (just plain daft, I guess) so I want to build from scratch. I've done it before - never a paddler - with a square-rigger!

I have no problem working from lines as I started out as a boat-builder many years ago, that is traditional wooden boats. I worked at Thorneycrofts on Ham Eyot as an apprentice working on pleasure boats and even a 120' Port of London Tug built in pitch pine on oak. Later I became a draughtsman involved in design work and detailing - I never got round to being a naval architect, which was my original ambition, as I took the wrong route!

Anyway, which boat to build! I've looked at building Sirius, Great Britain or Brittania from the earliest days of paddlers through to some unusual boats like the Turkish ferry mentioned in the downloads section or even one of the Racecourse class of minesweepers from the first world war - all very different types of ship.

The first question I have is about plans. The article on Sirius is detailed but, no plans - where to find them? Anyway, it strikes me that several will have been made because of the historical interest - so, do I want to build another version of the same thing? More or less the same questions arise with Great Britain and Brittania.

Does anyone know of someone having built a racecourse class ship recently? It is a bit unusual for a naval vessel to be a paddler, if it isn't a tug! Because of being a bit different, again it appeals to me, although I'm not altogether convinced about wanting to built a war vessel.

The Turkish ferry appeals because it seems that it would be somewhat different from the more popular type of tug, pleasure or historical boat and, it has to be said, it is slightly unusual - double-ended, only two built and far enough away not to have been a common sight in the UK. Okay, so I would lose my beloved rigging but at least it might be an easier build to contemplate as a first paddler.

I think I would fancy either the ferry or jumping in at the deep end and going for one of the historical ships. Anyone care to comment as to my thinking? And, is it okay to post these sort of ramblings here? If not, what section should I move it to?

I did warn you, Walter!!

Regards, David (Soapy) Hudson

[Eddy Matthews]

I think you've asked a question that is almost impossible to answer David - What appeals to you won't necessarily appeal to others, so it's very much a personal choice.

I have to agree that it's so much nicer to have a model that no-one else has, and that is one of my prime considerations with most of the models I build.

Almost any paddler built before 1850 would have a significant amount of masts and rigging, enough to challenge most people! But of course that adds yet more "top hamper" which can result in an unstable model if your not very careful, paddlers in model sizes tend to be a little tender at the best of times - Though of course there are always exceptions to any rule!! And increasing the hull depth is common practice so that the required amount of ballast can be added to help the situation.

I know there have been models of the Racecourse class paddlers, though I don't know of one built in the last 20 years or so... Now watch someone jump up and say "I have one!"

The Turkish ferry would certainly be an unusual subject, and I suspect it has probably never been modelled in the UK.

Then you come across the age old problem of finding plans!!  Plans do exist for most vessels, it's just a question of locating them - The best starting point is to select the vessel your thinking of building, and then try to find the year it was built, what the vessels name (or names) were, and which shipyard built it - Then find the archive that keeps plans for that shipbuilder. Hopefully that's something our members can help with?

Also remember that if the ship had a major refit during it's life, the shipyard that handled that would often also produce drawings to work from, so you don't always have to search for the plans from the original builder.....

Regards
Eddy

[R.G.Y.]

Soapy, Yes you have to be interested in the prototype, or intrest will Wayne. You mention the racecourse class. This class was modeled on the Glen Usk unfortunately the Admiralty decided to add an otter boiler totally destroying the concept of the design. If you look in photo user albums under R.G.Y. you will see my model of Glen Usk built from my own plans. as original not in her military roll.

[Soapy]

That's it, I've decided to go for the Turkish ferry!! Either Suhulet or Sahilbent.

Both were built and completed in 1872 by Maudslay Son and Field, London. They are sister vessels with only fairly minor differences externally (the second built, Suhilbent, had two engine). Of 45,5 metres length x 8,5 metres beam they had drop down ramps at both ends, so vehicles didn't need to reverse or turn to offload, and a full length flat open deck. A flying bridge crossed over the loading deck supported in the middle on the engine room superstructure with two small control positions one at each end of the bridge.

I have found several photographs, some a bit suspect but of a very similar vessel anyway. The attached shows Suhulet crossing the Bosphorus apparently almost empty. Both these ships had a long working life. Suhulet survived through to 1958 before being sold for scrap and broken up in 1961. Suhilbent however did even better working until 1959 as a ferry when she was taken out of service. She was sold in 1967 (still seaworthy) for use as a small freight vessel and renamed 'Kaptan Sukru'. At this time she was purported to be the oldest working ship in the world - I'm not certain of her history after that, I did read somewhere that she was still in service as late as 1996 but, I can't confirm that.

They make an interesting and unusual pair surviving several wars and campaigns as they did. I would like to revive at least one of them as a working model and although I have several pictures and even some rough (not to scale) drawings I would like more information as there are noticeable differences in things like height of funnel through the ages - changes made when diesel engines were installed in 1930 and 1927 respectively - imagine, those steam engines lasted 58 and 55 years! And, some photos show additional superstructure in the form of a covered area of deck through which vehicles drove. I believe these to be much later modifications - if they are the correct ship(s)!

If anyone can tell me where I might get copies of original plans and drawings of a ship built by Maudslay Son and Field in 1871/72, I'd very much appreciate it.

One other thing I mentioned in an earlier post was populating such a ship and, hence, scale. I have found that the most extensive range of figures available is from Preiser, designed for model rail at HO scale which equals 3,5mm to the foot or 1:87. This means my model would be about 520mm long, a bit short, I feel for a working model. The problem is the next decent range of figures is also for railway at 1:43.6 (7mm to the foot) making my model 1040mm long - a bit long to fit in a car comfortably. Can anyone tell if there are figures at somewhere between these two? I'd like to aim for about 750 to 900mm overall length, that is about 1:60 or 1:50.

Regards, David (Soapy)

[mjt60a]

Preiser do figures in 1/50th scale and on another thread (don't remember which) there was mention of a set you could order very similar to the preiser figures but at a fraction of the cost (not quite as detailed but good enough once painted up)

[Stuart Badger]

I suppose I could put the cat amongst the pidgeons here and tell you that Dundee City Archives   (http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive/gourlaylist/) have drawings for the PS Scotia 1894 -  the last Cunard paddler, twin funnelled and square rigged fore and aft. Their plans are very reasonably priced and they are very helpful. I can't think of any one else who's built her.

Stuart

[Eddy Matthews]

Whilst stumbling blindy around a Russian website, I came across the following.... It may be of interest?

The text about the vessel said:

The vessel is the Great Western, built in 1837. Two propeller wheel diameter 8.5 meters. The consumption of coal for more than 30 tons per day.
Length - 72 meters. Width - 11 meters. Draft - 5 meters. Gross Capacity of 1340 Reg. tons.
Power of the steam engine 740 hp The speed of 8.8 knots. The team of about 60 people.
Coloring: body, smokestack - black, paddle boards, along with extensions, mast, gaff, bowsprit, bridge - brown; gallery at the stern, on the band shell ornaments in the nose - yellow, lifeboats, and the inner side bulwarks paddle boards, skylights on the deck - the white, the deck - the natural color of wood;

Regards
Eddy

[Walter Snowdon]

The Great Western plan looks interesting.Airfix did two plastic kits of this ship, one very small (about 600th scale) and in the 60s amuch larger one which with todays small radio gear could be motorised quite easily.
The sketch of Great western looks suspciously like that in the instruction sheet for the Airfix kit!
 The Science Museum at Bristol holds an excelent large model of great Western, built by Bassett and Lowke in which there is one MAJOR difference to both the plastic kits and these Russian and other plans. The Basset and Lowke model has a conventional long raised quarter deck rather than that piddling little circular bandstand. I wonder which is right?. B and L were noted for the accuracy of their research and I coulnt see them making such a glaring mistake. At he moment Bristol museum is closed for rebuilding so it is no good hotfooting it there to see the model!!. regards, Walter.

[Soapy]

I like both the suggestions guys, but I think I will have enough problems for a first paddler anyway without making a top heavy ship for a starter. I have to admit that they both appeal maybe as later projects after trying out my ability on something that may be a little more straight forward.

Thanks for the ideas, though.

I have now managed to obtain some sketches for Suhulet, sketching in deed so they may require a liberal splash of imagination to complete. First job now (unless I stumble upon proper drawings) is to produce a scale drawing - assuming 1/50th people are available, I'll have to take a lookee! Is it standard practice to refer to paddle ship dimensions by the hull excluding the paddle boxes by the way. If not the the sketches make it look a bit skinny. Information refers to 45,5m x 8,5m x 3m which I am currently taking to be hull length and width and depth to the deck as 10' seems an enormous draught for such a small vessel.

Happy sailing, Soapy

[mjt60a]

Some of the preiser figures can be seen here - http://www.ontracks.co.uk/index.php?page=catalogue&cat=540 - though you don't have to order them from there, most model rail suppliers probably have them (in model rail terms, they're usually called 'O' guage,  I believe...)

These are the cheaper ones - http://cgi.ebay.com/50x-Building-Model-Trains-1-50-Scale-WHITE-Figures-O_W0QQitemZ280323360073QQihZ018QQcategoryZ19149QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 - I don't know what delivery is like from hong kong as I got mine from a model shop, but that sounds pretty good for 50 figures (mine were pre-painted but look too bright and glossy, I'll need to repaint them so unpainted would have been better...)

[steamboatmodel]

When ordering 'O' gauge figures find out what scale they are O gauge can be either 1/48 scale or 1/43 scale.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Soapy]

"When ordering 'O' gauge figures find out what scale they are O gauge can be either 1/48 scale or 1/43 scale."

That really surprises me as I have always know 'O' guage to be 7mm to the foot, that is 1:43!!??

Soapy

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Soapy,
It surprised me too, I bought some figures for a model boat years back from two different sources and they were vastly different in scale. When I checked I found that O Gauge in the UK is usually 1/43, while over here it is normally 1/48. I had been looking for crew figures for a 1/50 scale boat, since then I have also found O gauge in 1/64 scale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_gauge
Regards,
Gerald