Lathe etc?

[Eddy Matthews]

Now that I have a few quid saved, what would you guys recommend for a first lathe? Make and model etc, something capable of doing all the things needed to produce an engine for a paddler? Once I learn how to use it of course!!

What extra items will I need - I know that would give a never ending list, but what I mean is general tools and accessories that don't normally come with the lathe as standard.

Any other advice?

Regards
Eddy

[andy]

http://www.rc-machines.com/index.php

Hi Eddy,
have alook to them. Prices are good, most is made in China. But it´s ok in relation to the price. I got my lathe and optimized a litte bit with German bearings, and now it is a precision instrument. I have one for the works on my cars, which needs a length of 1 m and a diametre of 30 cm.

For big steam engines!

:-)


Andy

[bogstandard]

Eddy,

You have just asked the most common question on engineering boards, and I am sorry to say, it sometimes gets out of hand, with everyone diving in and offering their solutions, all thinking that theirs is the ideal solution (known as lathe wars, elitism versus value for money, big home grown iron compared to Far Eastern imports).

But I will tell you one thing that is a sort of golden rule. Whatever you spend on a new lathe, usually you will need to spend about the same amount on tooling for it.

Then it carries on. To do a half decent job of anything, you will need milling facilities. At one time this was all done on the lathe (at more tooling cost), but nowadays it seems the way to go would be to purchase a small milling machine. Your question would then be, substitute milling machine for lathe. The second most popular question, with exactly the same replies and the same golden rule, but sometimes a lot more on tooling.

To throw you in at the deep end, you pays your money, you takes your chance.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/lathes.htm

http://www.axminster.co.uk/sessionID/QOL/category-Lathes--Metal-Turning-208209.htm

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/milling_machines.htm

http://www.axminster.co.uk/sessionID/QOL/category-Milling-Machines-208257.htm

When you have picked yourself up off the floor, thought about it a lot, found room to put it all, then ask yourself, is this the way I want to go, then come back and give us the answer, and if it is positive, I am sure a few on here will help you make the correct decisions.

A general ball park figure of available funds is always a great help, because you can save a lot of money by shopping around and purchasing an 'unknown' make that you can commission yourself. To such an extent you could get say an X3 model for the same price as an X2 model from a well known supplier.

You would also need to let us know if you would consider second hand, as some real bargains can be had, with most tooling included. People who have jumped in with both feet, and found out it is not for them.

Sorry to be so offputting, but to spend a lot of money, just to make one engine, can be classed as a bit frivolous. You need to have foresight so that you can use them again for other projects, rather than ending up as another second hand bargain.

John

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks for the replies guys.....

My word, there is a heck of a range of machines once you start to look!! I'm going to have to take some time to look at them all and come to a decision....

I appreciate your comments John, but if I go ahead it won't be with the sole thought of producing one engine - That would just be total insanity! My thought is to start of with small odds and ends, bollards, various deck fittings etc, to get a basic "feel" for the processes involved. Then maybe move onto a simple engine to see how I get on with that, before ever getting anywhere near making a paddler engine!

Obviously this would be a long term investment, both in terms of money and the practical experience that would need to be gained.

No definate decision has been taken yet on wether to go ahead with the idea - I need to do a LOT more research before I get to that stage! My budget would have to be a maximum of £2000 to £2500 and even then I would need to convince SWMBO that it's a good idea, and that will be the hardest part of all!

Regards
Eddy

[bogstandard]

Eddy,

I am glad it has opened your eyes a little.
 
Making a decision such as this has to be done with both feet on the ground and the brain in gear.
It is all too easy to make a bad decision. Shiny new things and twitching fingers have that effect.
 
That is a very healthy budget, and with the lower figure you could equip very well with a medium sized lathe and a very competant small mill plus all the basic tools you would require. The specialist tooling comes as you gain experience and want to make a few more challenging things.

The way to start on your journey, is firstly see what space you have to accomodate the machines. It is no use going for larger models if you can't squeeze in to use them safely.
I started out stupidly with a mill and lathe in an upstairs bedroom as a workshop. A nice out of the way place with 1/4" thick steel sheets on the floor, to stop them going through the ceiling into the kitchen. It was great, until I turned them on, the whole house shook if I was cutting a bit of rough stuff.

I spent six months on my last journey selecting machines that would not only fit my budget but the shop as well, and still be able to carry out what I wanted of them.

For a lathe you look for the maximum size you will want to turn. Most people can use 9" diameter for their whole lives and never need any more (that is around the most popular size), whereas some people need to have a larger one because they want to build something like a small traction engine. Mine will turn 17" diameter, because that is the size I have chosen will be the maximum I will ever require. Others will buy tiny table top machines because either that is all they can afford, or they only ever want to make smaller parts. A big one will also make small, but not the other way around.

The Chester 920 is an example of one of the most popular import lathes in use today. It comes complete with all major tooling required. This size is available from all machine suppliers, and has become the 'Myford' standard of import lathes throughout the world, not for quality, but for the range of items that can either be bought or made to fit it. A good web search can find the best deals.

Just take your time, and read a lot.

John

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks again John,

I have no intention of jumping in with my eyes closed - I will be spending some time to decide just what is (and isn't) practical. The process will probably take a few months until I'm happy with the idea, and that I'm happy that I chose the correct machinery to do the intended jobs.

One possible problem has reared it's ugly head with one of the comments you made.... That about noise and vibration when using the equipment. I live in a terraced house and the two nextdoor neighbours would soon kick up a fuss if I made too much noise, so I need to investigate that side of things before going any further!

Regards
Eddy

[antopia]

Hello Eddy,
Being a fully paid up member of the all things that "turn"
I am off work this week just give me a shout
I have a Warco wm180 lathe and a very old
Elliot 10m shaper.
so you can have a look,it may help in your quest.
i can even be persuaded to demonstrate how to grind various tools.

 
Steven Watson

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks for the offer Steven, much appreciated.... However I'm tied up this week with hospital appointments and final sorting for our paddler day next sunday. I don't even have time to get my car serviced

Regards
Eddy

[rmcluckie]

Eddy,
        No need to buy new, you can find some very good secondhand lathes. I would recommend a secondhand Myford ML7 or the smaller ML10. My first lathe which I still have is a Myford ML7 which I used to machine a great deal of the parts for my Waverley engine model before buying a larger Colchester Student lathe.
  Check the adds in the Model Engineer magazine as you will find companies and individuals selling lathes. I bought my first lathe from a model engineer who had suddendly changed his hobby to making beer.
  Have a look at the web www.homeandworkshop.co.uk which will let you see what is available used and the prices.
  Regarding vibration, my lathe is in the attic and I have not had any complaints from the neighbours. I think that this may be due to the fact that the lathe has been mounted on a wooden bench which absorbs most of the vibration. It could be that if it was mounted on a metal cabinet stand then the sound would be transmitted easier through the floor.

Hope this is of some use.

Robert

[malcolmbeak]

Eddy

All good advice. If I may add to it, I would sugest that you make contact with your local Model Engineering Society - there may even be more than one. If they are like my society, they will be only too pleased to help you. If you do go for a second hand machine, get one of the experienced modellers to go with you.
And when you have bought something, there should be plenty of advice on how to use it - as John says - quite a bit of conflicting views.
Please join a club - we come across people regularly who have struggled for years by themselves and we could have solved their problems so easily!

Malcolm

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks Robert and Malcolm, every bit of advice is welcomed. I will indeed contact my local model engineering club and get their help and advice too..... I have a heck of a lot to learn, and I'd rather be too cautious. Better than jumping in with my size elevens, only to find I've made a wrong choice!!

Regards
Eddy

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Eddy,
If you do buy second hand make sure you can still buy tooling and accessories for the equipment. I bought an Emco Compact 5 lathe only to discover they are no longer in production, and the place selling parts for it thought the parts were make of gold with platinum coating. If I had done my research I would have never bought the lathe.
Regards,
Gerald

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks Gerald, another very valid point, and something definately worth considering!

A friend of mine bought a secondhand lathe a few years ago, only to find the bed of the machine was badly warped and the lathe was useless!! So if I buy secondhand I do need someone with me who knows what they are talking about - I don;t want to end up with a heap of rubbish!

Eddy