Polliwogs and Fiddleboats?

[Chris Andersen]

Here's a question for all you paddleducks that has been a topic of some
debate between myself and one of my colleagues. He asserts that there is no
difference between a "polliwog" and a "fiddleboat", that the two terms are,
in fact, synonymous for any sidewheeler on which the paddlewheels are set
into the sides of the hull rather than standing outboard and proud of the
sides of the hull (as on an alligator). I have argued that although he's
right, to a point, there is a fundamental difference in hull shape between a
polliwog and a fiddleboat that arises from the inboard placement of the
paddlewheels and its effect on the shape given to the hull aft of the
paddles.

As I have been given to understand it, on a polliwog the hull aft of the
wheels remains the width to which it has been narrowed in order to
accomodate the paddles (which are often placed aft of amidships to a greater
or lesser degree) and therefter tapers gently to the stern, thereby giving
it a "polliwog" sort of shape in plan view. A fiddleboat, on the other hand,
has a more or less normal hull plan, fore and aft, except where the
paddlewheels are set in, usually amidships, giving the hull, in plan, a
distinctly waisted form, similar in appearance to the body of a violin (as
in the Great Eastern).

So, for the sake of argument, who's right?

Happy Holidays!

[Paulrjordan]

Hiya Chris!!... basking in all that unprecendented winter warmth down
Ontario way!!!

I honestly DID search for some meaning to these two terms which may
(abnd purely guessing) refer to an early type of river boat. I
couldn't find anything using all the usual search techniques and I'd
rather hoped your silence was because some gifted "Paddleduck" had
replied to you offlist!

I have searched through every book I own and again tried many (not by
any means ALL) of the online nautical dictionaries listed at:

http://www.termisti.refer.org/nauterm/dicten.htm#en

with some going back as far as 1707!!

OK I give up..as probably many others among us have done. Give us a
clue here, Chris...coz now you've got me concerned that if it's a
paddler related issue we're refering to..we had BETTER come up with an
answer!

PJ

[Chris Andersen]

Hi, Paul, and everyone else:

My goodness, it seems I've managed to stump you guys, though I can hardly
believe it!

To the best of my understanding, "polliwog" and "fiddleboat" are descriptive
terms for inboard-mounted, side-wheeled paddleboats that have to do with the
shape of their hull and the manner in which the paddles are mounted. A
"polliwog" had the paddles mounted amidship or slightly aft, with the hull
narrowed to accept the wheels and continuing narrow to the stern, giving it
something of a polliwog shape in plan. On a "fiddleboat", on the other hand,
the wheels were set into 'wells' in the sides of the hull, giving it a
pronounced 'waist' (a la the Great Eastern), so that in plan view the shape
of the hull resembles a violin. Both stand in contrast to more normal
outboard-mounted sidewheelers like alligators and many early lake and river
steamers. My terminology may not be the most accurate - I'm an
archaeologist, not a marine historian, Jim! - but you get the general idea.

Now, with that information in hand, most of which is anecdotal at best, can
anyone lead me in the right direction to find documentation on these
terms???

Thanks,

Chris, in the formerly tropical southland of Canada, the GTA (now covered in
snush thanks to two days of slightly subzero temps, very high winds, snow,
freezing rain, and sneet, with more to come. Still, we better get a LOT more
snow or it's going to be yet another summer of record low water levels all
over the Great Lakes region ... .)

[Paulrjordan]

> My goodness, it seems I've managed to stump you guys, though I can
> hardly believe it!

Ohhh believe it, buddy...the sound of silence was deafening!!

> To the best of my understanding, "polliwog" and "fiddleboat" are
> descriptive terms for inboard-mounted, side-wheeled paddleboats
> that have to do with the shape of their hull and the manner in
> which the paddles are mounted.

> A "polliwog" had the paddles mounted amidship or slightly aft, with
> the hull narrowed to accept the wheels and continuing narrow to the
> stern, giving it something of a polliwog shape in plan. On a
> "fiddleboat", on the other hand, the wheels were set into 'wells' in
> the sides of the hull, giving it a pronounced 'waist' (a la the
> Great Eastern), so that in plan view the shape of the hull resembles
> a violin.

First thing I'd better do, Chris, for the benefit of our British
Paddlers is to translate "pollywog". Guys, its what YOU call a
"tadpole"! Now having said that I'm just wondering if the
pollywog/tadpole shape might more resemble a boat with her paddles
towards the bow! There were a number of British Sidewheel tugs like
that, the most notable being of course "Old Trafford" and 'Acton
Grange" who originally had sponsons flaring right off the bow..and if
ANYTHING looks like a tadpole from the deck plan..these DO! This is
all clearly illustrated on page155 of P. N. Thomas' classic reference
"British Steam Tugs". This is ALL conjecture on my part but i'm
wondering if this might be a term coined in North America for similar
designs to the British tugs I have mentioned. "Fiddleboat?"..well I
have no idea !

>
> Now, with that information in hand, most of which is anecdotal at
> best, can anyone lead me in the right direction to find >
documentation on these
> terms???

Where did you run across these terms, Chris...because if there is some
"geographical parameter" associated with them, we can maybe hit the
little maritime museums who are always full of useful local
information..and what's more, eager to share it!

Somewhere..sometime we'll put this one to bed for ya!!..we'd
better..as our reputation seems to be hanging on it!!

All the best from the West..where we went for 18 months without rain
and stage 3 water restrictions!..and now we're dumping thousands of
gallons a day into the ocean! Water management issues or what?

PJ

[Alistair Deayton]

The ERIK NORDEVALL and other early Swedish paddlers were fiddle-boats
because of the dimensions of the Göta Canal locks.A replica of the ERIK
NORDEVALL is being built at Forsvik.
http://www.forsvik.com/sidor/index1.html will give you a link to this.
Polliwog sounds like Golliwog which is a forbidden word now due to claimed
racial connotations for an innocent children's toy.

Alistair Deayton

[Chris Andersen]

Hi, Paul, and everyone else:

Paul, you speculate in one of your messages whether "the pollywog/tadpole shape might more resemble a boat with her paddles towards the bow", then you went on to point out that "There were a number of British Sidewheel tugs like that, the most notable being of course "Old Trafford" and 'Acton Grange" who originally had sponsons flaring right off the bow..and if ANYTHING looks like a tadpole from the deck plan..these DO! This is all clearly illustrated on page155 of P. N. Thomas' classic reference "British Steam Tugs"." Finally, you ask "if this [polliwog] might be a term coined in North America for similar designs to the British tugs I have mentioned."

With regard to your first point, I suppose anything is possible. You would know better than I.

On point two: I am not familiar with these vessels, nor with the reference work to which you refer. Is there any possibility that you might be able to scan the image you mention and post it to the list archive? Were vessels of similar design built/used in Canada or the USA, especially on the Great Lakes?

Finally, I think it's entirely possible, even probable, that you're right about this. If we accept that "polliwog" is a peculiarly North American idiom (the OED cites earlier British usages but also suggests that by the 19th century it was chiefly used on this side of the Atlantic, citing, interestingly enough, Canadian author Thomas C Haliburton's humorous character, Sam Slick, as one of its references), then it seems likely that "polliwog" would have been used in preference to "tadpole". But are there British boats that are actually referred to as "tadpoles" or are we simply dealing with (a variant of) a "fiddleboat" (such as the Eric Nordevall) by another name?

By the way, I assure you that despite the fact that I cannot for the life of me remember where or in what context I first heard the term, I most definitely did not make it up.

Regards,

Chris