Trimming plasticard

[David Allinson]

Hi paddleship modellers.
 I have been trying to make the chaissis for a 1:48 scale anchor winch out of plasticard.
 I seem to have difficulty in the final trimming to get exactly the shape I want. A knife leaves a nice clean edge but is very difficult to get it right unless it is simple straight cut down the side of ruler. If I try to sand it then it gets rather ragged, the same with filing. Trying to use a belt sander or Dremel just melts it!! Perhaps I will have to have a go at making the bits in brass!
Can everyone please shower me with their methods of accurate working with plasticard?
Happy modelling.
Regards
David

[mjt60a]

I use small precision files (needle files?) but as you say, it doesn't leave a smooth edge, I suppose it may be possible to 'polish' the filed edges with fine wet-or-dry, in several decreasing stages if necessary, but I just accept the result after filing...

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi David & PD’s – I have only found plasticard to be unforgiving even @ 1:24 scale my attempt looks like fabricated construction – the smaller gussets shown are approx 4 mm x 3 mm – in reality the pedestal of an 1860 built winch would have been cast – you know ‘smooth radii’ not ‘sharp edges’ – I may keep the styrene frame, but the plastic winch drums & steam cylinders……. will be replaced in brass – I purchased one of those white metal kit cast versions, but think the mould must have been used ½ a million times & the quality was very poor – couldn’t solder the components as the metal turned to dust with heat & CA type glue was 9/10’s of useless  
   
So at a scale of 1:48, similar gusset type sections would be unbelievably difficult to position & glue in  - Derek  
         
 
Subject: Trimming plasticard  
 
hi paddleship modellers.
 I have been trying to make the chaissis for a 1:48 scale anchor winch out of plasticard.
 Perhaps I will have to have a go at making the bits in brass!
 Happy modelling. – Regards David
 
 
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------
 
 Exported by Paddleducks Mail System.
 
 http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7276#7276
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------

[David Allinson]

Derek.  
Many thanks for your rapid reply. I am trying to make a plastic one for the same reason as you!! I purchased a white metal kit. When I got it home I found that it was very crudely cast and put it to one side. I thought that I could do better. We’ll see, maybe I will try and clean up the white metal one if I can’t do better with the plasticard. (Or then again start all over again with a brass one!!)  
 I don’t think that I would even try soldering the white metal one, having had an unhappy experience with trying to make a model tractor many years ago. Almost impossible to keep the temperature of the soldering iron above the melting point of the solder and below that of the white metal.  
By the way Derek, I never did get the magic deck covering liquid that you very kindly offered. Would it be too much to ask if you have enough for another shipment? Do you still have my address or would you like it again? I will send it off-list if you need it.  
Very many thanks and happy winch building. The photo said it all!!  
All the best  
David  
PS Does anyone know of a good source of finely cast white metal kits? Please tell us.  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
   
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
-----Original Message-----
 From: Derek Warner [mailto:construction@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: martes, 25 de abril de 2006 22:43
 To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: RE: Trimming plasticard  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
Hi David & PD’s – I have only found plasticard to be unforgiving even @ 1:24 scale my attempt looks like fabricated construction – the smaller gussets shown are approx 4 mm x 3 mm – in reality the pedestal of an 1860 built winch would have been cast – you know ‘smooth radii’ not ‘sharp edges’ – I may keep the styrene frame, but the plastic winch drums & steam cylinders……. will be replaced in brass – I purchased one of those white metal kit cast versions, but think the mould must have been used ½ a million times & the quality was very poor – couldn’t solder the components as the metal turned to dust with heat & CA type glue was 9/10’s of useless
 Â 
 So at a scale of 1:48, similar gusset type sections would be unbelievably difficult to position & glue in  - Derek
 Â 
 
 Subject: Trimming plasticard
 
 hi paddleship modellers.
 I have been trying to make the chaissis for a 1:48 scale anchor winch out of plasticard.
 Perhaps I will have to have a go at making the bits in brass!
 Happy modelling. – Regards David
 
 
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------
 
 Exported by Paddleducks Mail System.
 
 http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7276#7276
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------
 
 
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------
 
 Exported by Paddleducks Mail System.
 
 http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7279#7279
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi David & PD's - I wonder how many other modelers have purchased one of those little  :hmmm white metal winch kits & opened the only to find out it is JUNK - glad I am not the only one    :!:  :!:  :!:

Now you have re-sparked this issue again in my mind I tend to think I will rebuild the winch pedestal in brass - with those little S/S surgical forcep devices with alligator locks, small brass components can be securely positioned & located prior to baby gas soldering flame  :boom - the weight of the forcep also stabilizes the component being soldered - I also use a refactory brick for additional 90 degree square support & it can glow red momentarily until the components cool  

David - my e-mail address is dlwarner@bigpond.net.au - please come back off line with your direct e-mail address & postal address & will get a goodly sized teaspoon of the 'Feast Watson' Master Touch decking finish away - sorry - I think the last parcel was posted to an Africian country and from my studies many years ago I still remember Spain is just down the road from FROG land where JMC is manufactured -   - regards Derek

[Eddy Matthews]

The best white metal winch kits I've seen are by Mobile Marine Models http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/products.php

They still need a fair amount of tidying with small files atc, but they are better than most. I have to admit that their website isn't the easiest to navigate, and they don't do online ordering, but a quick phonecall or email gets reasonably quick results - Just DON'T send credit card details in an email unless you really want to risk losing money!

[Walter Snowdon]

I have been using plastic card for about forty years and have never had any of the problems you are getting! I think you must have a dodgy batch or maybe its not STYRENE card
My favourite method is to use wet and dry paper only,  you can make your own wet and dry "files" by taping or pinning stripwood of different thicknesses together and glueing a piece of wet and dry to it. When glue is dry, run a sharp knife betwwen the strip layers and hey presto, you have W&D files from say 1/16th to an inch wide. Use half round beeding and  dowel for making curved Files. DONT use course wet and dry on plastic as this tears the edges. For large areas stick a sheet of wet and dry to a flat glass or melamine surface and rub your working piece on this. By using a waterproof base, you can finish using the paper wet. ( A very small amount of water with a little soap in it gives a lovely polished surface and the melamine or glass with the paper on it  can be run under the tap to give a clean surface for the next job.)  Always use a finer paper than you would if you were using glass paper. NEVER use a power sander on plastic card.  Tooth paste is a good abrasive for removing blemishes and glue marks as basicaly it is the same as jewelers rouge. All the Plastic aeromodelers I know use tooth paste for polishing scratches out of canopies.
 Hope this is of help. Remember, plastic is heat sensitive and course abrasives cause friction. Hope this helps, Walter

[David Allinson]

Walter.  
Very many thanks for those helpful words. I am sure that it will also help many others who have experienced problems getting plasticard smooth.  
Thanks  
David  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
-----Original Message-----
 From: Walter Snowdon [mailto:construction@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: miércoles, 26 de abril de 2006 11:00
 To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: RE: Trimming plasticard  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
I have been using plastic card for about forty years and have never had any of the problems you are getting! I think you must have a dodgy batch or maybe its not STYRENE card
 My favourite method is to use wet and dry paper only, you can make your own wet and dry "files" by taping or pinning stripwood of different thicknesses toether and glueing a piece of wet and dry to it. When glue is dry, run a sharp knife betwwen the strip layers and hey presto, you have W&D files from say 1/16th to an inch wide. Use half round beeding and dowel for making curved Files. DONT use course wet and dry on plastic as this tears the edges. For large areas stick a sheet of wet and dry to a flat glass or melamine surface and rub your working piece on this. By using a waterproof base, you can finish using the paper wet. ( A very small amount of water with a little soap in it gives a lovely polished surface and the melamine or glass with the paper on it can be run under the tap to give a clean surface for the next job.) Always use a finer paper than you would if you were using glass paper. NEVER use a power sander on plastic card. Tooth paste is a good abrasive for removing blemishes and glue marks as basicaly it is the same as jewelers rouge. All the Plastic aeromodelers I know use tooth paste for polishing scratches out of canopies.
 Hope this is of help. Remember, plastic is heat sensitive and course abrasives cause friction. Hope this helps, Walter
 
 
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------
 
 Exported by Paddleducks Mail System.
 
 http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7290#7290
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi David & all PD’s – I rang Australia Post today & enquired re the international posting of a small portion of “Carnauba” wax – turns out the same substance is 60%  
“d-LIMONENE” or “D-limonene” which is made from citrus peel which seemed harmless enough however is also listed as a “Dangerous flammable substance Class 3” and as such is not permitted to be ‘POSTED or TRANSPORTED’ by air according to international .regs [flash point of 48 degrees C]  
   
On my previous air parcel post declaration late in 2005 I simply listed the contents as a ZERO value 20 gm quantity of “Carnauba” wax – so assume they threw it in the bin without telling me – the .pdf MSDS attachment is Australian, but I am sure reprinted from a British original…. best thing David is to search the Spanish WEB for “Carnauba” wax – it would be well worth purchasing a small container to try…. in OZ we can purchase a 125 gm tin for say $8AUD – regards  Derek  
   
   
         
 
From: David Allinson [mailto:construction@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 4:33 PM
 To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  
 
   
Derek - many thanks for your rapid reply..by the way Derek…… I never did get the magic deck covering liquid that you very kindly offered. Would it be too much to ask if you have enough for another shipment?

[David Allinson]

Derek.  
My word you have been busy researching the product!! What a shame the last lot went into the bin. Flash point of 48 DegC. MMmmm. It gets warm here in Spain but not that warm!! Maybe if I leave the boat out in the sun it will get that hot!! I hope the whole thing won’t spontaneously combust!!  I guess it needs some source of ignition as well?  
Anyway very many thanks for the advice and the full spec. and I will go hunting.  
I don’t know if anyone else experiences this phenomenon? Whenever I go into a shop asking for something a little out of the ordinary to use for something on a model or some other odd end use, the people in the shop usually don’t really know what it is you want, but try to be helpful and ask “What do you want it for”.? It is really no use trying to tell them that you want to fit in front of a widget and behind the gazunder on your model boat. Recently I was asking for a big sack style sowing needle that I wanted to use for burnishing the edge of a bit of brass. The assistant told me they didn’t have any but what was it for. What am I supposed to say, “Sowing sacks” and make them sound rather silly or Burnishing brass?.  
All the best and thanks again Derek.  
David  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
-----Original Message-----
 From: Derek Warner [mailto:construction@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: jueves, 27 de abril de 2006 9:27
 To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: Trimming plasticard  
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  
Hi David & all PD’s – I rang Australia Post today & enquired re the international posting of a small portion of “Carnauba” wax – turns out the same substance is 60%
 “d-LIMONENE” or “D-limonene” which is made from citrus peel which seemed harmless enough however is also listed as a “Dangerous flammable substance Class 3” and as such is not permitted to be ‘POSTED or TRANSPORTED’ by air according to international .regs [flash point of 48 degrees C]
 Â 
 On my previous air parcel post declaration late in 2005 I simply listed the contents as a ZERO value 20 gm quantity of “Carnauba” wax – so assume they threw it in the bin without telling me – the .pdf MSDS attachment is Australian, but I am sure reprinted from a British original…. best thing David is to search the Spanish WEB for “Carnauba” wax – it would be well worth purchasing a small container to try…. in OZ we can purchase a 125 gm tin for say $8AUD – regards  Derek
 Â 
 Â 
 Â 
 
 From: David Allinson [mailto:construction@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 4:33 PM
 To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk (construction@paddleducks.co.uk) <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>
 
 Â 
 Derek - many thanks for your rapid reply..by the way Derek…… I never did get the magic deck covering liquid that you very kindly offered. Would it be too much to ask if you have enough for another shipment?
 
 
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------
 
 Exported by Paddleducks Mail System.
 
 http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7306#7306
 
 -------------------- m2f --------------------

[Eddy Matthews]

Recently I was asking for a big sack style sowing needle that I wanted to use for burnishing the edge of a bit of brass. The assistant told me they didn’t have any but what was it for. What am I supposed to say, “Sowing sacks” and make them sound rather silly or Burnishing brass?.

David,

If your still after one, try Cotton Patch at http://www.cottonpatch.co.uk/index.html

I've bought all sorts of odds and ends from them and thier service is great. And before anyone asks, NO I haven't taken up needlework!

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD’s & yes David, I suffer the same questions when I ask @ the pharmacy….‘could I purchase two 125 ml plastic case hypodermic needles’ – you know, ‘the tubes without the actual steel spike injecting bits’……. & the questioned response is …..”but what do you want these for ?” – possibly I should take in a snap of my ACS built boiler & lubricator they respond ‘just for sucking residual liquid out of this bit’…………………. - Derek  
         
 
From: David Allinson [mailto:construction@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Thursday, 27 April 2006 8:42 PM
 To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: RE: Trimming plasticard  
 
   
………Derek. ..what a shame the last lot went into the bin. Flash point of 48 DegC. MMmmm. The assistant told me they didn’t have any but what was it for. What am I supposed to say, “Sowing sacks” and make them sound rather silly or Burnishing brass?. All the best and thanks again Derek….David  <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>

[Bill Hudson]

>> I purchased one of those white metal kit cast versions, but think the mould must have been used ½ a million times & the quality was very poor – couldn’t solder the components as the metal turned to dust with heat & CA type glue was 9/10’s of useless <<<<


White metals come in a wide range of alloys, starting at low melt metals to high temp mostly tin. Some are or used to be a high lead content.  Bluejacket Ship crafters use Britania or pewter.  I have been able to solder it with a low temp (30 Watt) iron and 50/50 solder.    I used to cast white metal kits for model rail road modelers and used a very high tin-antimony alloy. I was able to solder my kits.  The thing I found best when assembling white metal kits is first to completely clean the parts with oil free solvent.  Then use high fill Ca glue to assemble. I then sprinkle baking soda on the joint as a filler. (Note) low temp alloys oxidize if not kept sealed in a package.  If that happens scrub all parts, with a tooth brush, in warm detergent water and rinse well and then wash with solvent.     Sometimes I build up the soda glue then file down to smooth. you have to be patient.   I have used this same process on styrene.  Try it first on junk until you get used to it.  

Nothing to me ruins a well done model than to see something that would normally be a cast iron in real life, polished and painted glass smooth.  Most cast iron is fairly rough and if it has been exposed, over the years to the elements it also  has become more rough from rust.  To duplicate that look I first spray a primer coat and let it set for just a few minutes to tack.  Then I pull the sprayer back to create a fog spray which leaves little flecks on the surface. Repeat this several times until you get a rough, cast looking finish. If it appears really rough that is OK as you finish coat will fill it some. If it looks good let it dry over night then apply your regular paint.  

I see I am listed as a deckhand. While I did my stent as a deck-ape I was actually a radarman on the Destroyer Escort,  U.S.S. Naifeh DE 352. We spent most of four years patrolling the western Korean coast during the Korean war from 1951 - 54. A lot of our time was spent bombarding in the Wansan Harbor area.  We worked with many Ausie, French and Brit ships.  

Bill Hudson

[Stu Kerrn Sr]

I have used Bristol Board artist paper on several different frames and housings, once you are satisfied with the part, give it a thin CA glue wash, it is almost as rigid as plastic card. It may seem odd, but it works. I don't know what the UK equivalent to Bristol Board is but is just thicker quality paper.