Newbie, and looking for blueprints of a model

[nolizard]

Hi all,

I'm a new member and as you might have figured out already
on my e-mail address that I'm also located in Sweden.

This seems to be a nice group to join. Lots of files shared
and many nice pictures

I was browsing the web for "blueprints" but i can't find
any... I would like to build a model of a paddle-steamer
and wanted to know if anyone knows where to find drawings.

Kind Regards

Christian

[Paulrjordan]

Hi Christian..and from us all here..A very warm welcome
to "Paddleducks".

So you want to build a paddler model? ...that's already a good
choice! But...which one? There are thousands to choose from and
there are many plans available. First thing will be to decide what
kind of paddlewheeler and from what period interests you. Do you
have any particular type or era in mind? A lot depends on what
country you might wish to research for paddlers as every location in
the world has different variations in style.

So let's make a quick Q and A list

Sidewheeler or Sternwheeler?
What period? Pioneeers 1780- 1830
Early transition (sail and steam) 1830-1860.
The Classic age 1860-1900.
Paddlers perfected 1900 -1930.
What Country?
Tug or Passenger Vessel
Military or civilian?

Answer these questions and you'll be a whole lot closer to finding
plans. Let us know if we can help further once you've decided.

Best regards

PJ
Victoria, British columbia, Canada

[nolizard]

Hi Paul and "paddle-friends" !

Yes, i guess i wasn't very clear in my previous e-mail..
I just got so excited by browsing all the nice boats
You all has already built

I'm very interested in building a side-wheeler and I would like
to build one that looks like PS "Beatrize"or RMAS "Faithful".
I also saw a vessel that was called "Forceful" that i liked
very much too. I got two kids that also might want to build
their own boats.. one of them wanted to see if there were
any plans available on a military vessel... sidewheeler of course.

I know there are complete kits available to buy but i want to
build it all myself from scratch.

Kind Regards

Christian

[Paulrjordan]

Hi again Christian:

A good start...you've decided on a sidewheeler so you're on your
way. Now before you decide on a ship give yourself some time to
research and you'll eventually find the one that just begs you to
build it! Maybe it's one that nobody has built before and yours
would be unique. While plans are VERY useful for building they are
not essential unless you are seeking museum quality accuracy. There
are primarily three plans needed to build a highly accurate model.
First the hull sections from bow to stern. These are essentially the
ribs of the boat and give you accurate hull form. If these are not
available, then an acceptable model can still be made from the Plan
view (deck) and the profile (side view)but you do need to learn a
little about hull form or copy the hull sections from a similar
ship. There are other forms of plans showing hull various profiles
which you can make hulls from but we won't go into that right now.

In the absence of plans, many modelers have built superb examples
from resources in which only a photograph existed. A good deal of
imagineering and a fairly good understanding of hull form and
contemporary vessels is needed. The planning and research is much of
the fun...the building is the easy part.

So you want to build from scratch...highly commendable as this allows
you to build your very own model rather than a kit. There are three
issues to be decided here.

SIZE and SCALE of the finished model.. If it's a R/C model you'll
need to make sure you can transport it ok...so anything up to about
48" is ok. If you have a van or truck then larger!!! 1:48 scale is
popular for operating models of ships up to about 200 feet.

Now, if it's a display model then 1:96 is a good choice unless you
have a very large room. Remember this will not be the only ship
model you ever make. If you plan for a lot of detail on a display
model, consider building a display case for it BEFORE you get in too
deep with the detailing. R/C models tend to have less detail so
there's less to get damaged while in transit or operation.

So....R/C or DISPLAY MODEL?

WHAT BUILDING METHOD?
Traditional hull building method is called plank on frame where the
frame are the cross sections of the plan. The keel is laid and
secured and the ribs attached. Everything gets held in place by the
planks and deck.

If you're very good at this the hull won't leak...BUT, there are VERY
few plank on frame hulls I've seen that didn't leak a little since
wood tends to be dynamic and contracts and expands environmentally.
So sometimes they need help from a waterproof outer "skin" of
fibreglass cloth (some even use paper or material!) and a binding
agent, resin, varnish or glue covering. Some people even coat them in
an automotive filler then sand the heck out of them. Since it's
sometimes a shame to cover all that nice plank work, other builders
coat the inside of the hull with epoxy resin.

I'm impatient and dislike building hulls which may eventually leak so
I use a quick method using insulating foam covered with thin balsa
and finished with a quick drying sandable acrylic varnish coating.
Some builders favour fibreglass and resin. The hulls end up leak
proof and unsinkable! However, a lot depends on the scope of your
workshop and if you have sophisticated tools. I like building on the
kitchen table so I tend to work with hand tools and materials that
can be easily cut and shaped.

One thing is for sure..scratch building for a beginner is NOT
difficult so long as you start out with some drawings. By the
way..the new low temp hot glue guns are fabulous for quick building!!

Now let's talk about the ships you mentioned.
> I also saw a vessel that was called "Forceful" that i liked
> very much too. I got two kids that also might want to build
> their own boats.. one of them wanted to see if there were
> any plans available on a military vessel... sidewheeler of course.

Both "Forceful" and "Faithful" are part of seven "Director" class
sidewheel paddle tugs which the Royal Navy built in the late 50's to
handle their Aircraft carrier fleet. They were incredibly powerful
with twin diesel electric engines and were the last paddle tugs built
anywhere in the world. Plans are readily available for these ships
and even a 1:48 fibreglass hull is available from two separate UK
suppliers if you really can't handle scratch building a hull. I
happen to love the "Director" paddle tugs! They make fine
models...but then so do a lot of other RMAS (Royal Maritime
Auxilliary Service) paddlers. A good book is Bill Hannan's "Fifty
years of Naval Tugs". No plans but lots of good pictures. There are
lots of great looking civilian paddle tugs too which you can find on
the net if you Google "paddle tugs".

"Beatriz" is a different kind of sidewheeler..an excursion steamer.
She is actually the Billings (?) "Bilsdale" kit, a British ship built
in 1900 and operated on the East Coast. If you like these kind of
paddlers, then there are plans available. Visit the Paddle Steamer
Picture Gallery to see examples of these ships. Have you thought of
building a Swedish ship though? If so, go and visit your Maritime
Museums for ideas as they usually have excellent display models.

Anyway, I hope this encourages you to keep looking and please let us
know how things are going.

Best regards

PJ
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

[nolizard]

Hello again Paul,
and many thanks for Your tips and advices.
I think You are absolutely right that the
planning and research is a funny part =)
I guess I've already decided what kind of
side-wheeler i would like to build.
And i think it will a "Forceful"-look-a-like.
My youngest son might try to start on a "Director".
My dad has already built a nice R/C Tug boat
and he completed it last year. We have built a lot
of R/C airplanes when I was young. So we got a little
"know-how".
We got a Maritime Museum here in Stockholm and me
and my dad already planned to go there shortly.
By the way... has anyone tried to make a hull made
of metal? I guess Aluminium is prefered but the boat
won't stay in water for more than hours while driving
it... and if the paint is good quality and waterproof
I know how to weld so that is the easy part.
I take it, that it's worse to get the shape in proper
dimensions... but it can be solved by making a paper-
model first.

Many thanks again, You have already given me some
good ideas
Kind Regards
Christian

[Derek Warner]

Hi Christian – great to hear you are considering a paddler, - but please
reconsider the hull material choice – aluminum is not a forgiving
material even in full size vessels – my principal reference here is from
my late dear old dad who was the senior welding engineer for BHP Steel
Australia who said “if she was wooden POF, then do her the same wooden
plank on frame” – “if she was a steel hull, copy her in wood”

I believe that the HM director class paddlers would have been welded
carbon steel construction by traditional methods of the 50’s which
really has not differed to today’s methods apart from CAD controlled
welding automation or and design revisions [reduced frame centers &
thinner high tensile hull plate etc]

PJ [our moderator] has built a director class vessel – just lock into
the PD YAHOO site & look – you will certainly find it interesting –
regards Derek in Australia

[nolizard]

Hi Derek,
yes you might be right .... just a thought...
The thing is that I've never tried to weld "smaller" things
in Aluminium but I do know to weld in Carbon Steel.
I also got an old truck from 1957 that i'm restoring
and the body is made of wood!!!! covered with steel.
So i got experience from both material

I think I will give it a go to weld a hull in Carbon Steel
when I have found plans for a "Forceful" or similar.
According to the pictures of the "Forceful" that I saw
in the "Paddleduck"-albums there are many parts
that can be built in Carbon Steel.

Right or wrong! I guess Í have to start on/and with paper
anyway

If anyone of you got a "copy" or knows where to find any -
please let me know =)

Kind Regards

Christian

[GJ. Nelson]

There is also the possibility of copper and silver solder.
Except if butt joints are used.

Gary

[Paulrjordan]

Christian:

An excellent set of 1:48 plans exists in the January 1980 issue
of "Model Boats" magazine along with a complete construction article
for building "Forceful". Part 2 and 3 of the article appear in the
February and March 1980 issues the latter of which contains plans and
instructions for building the optional feathering wheels. If you want
to obtain original copies of these magazines contact Jeremy Arnold at
the Magazine Exchange in the UK. In fact he has a "special deal"
currently running on the February 1980 issue!

Here is Jeremy's Website and it's well worth a visit. He's very
helpful guy and his prices are reasonable (although admittedly quite
a bit more than flea market prices!)
http://www.payhost.net/magazineexchange/acatalog/index.html

And here is the page for the three "Director" class "Forceful"
magazines.
http://www.payhost.net/magazineexchange/acatalog/1980.html

These three magazine articles will give you everything you need to
know about building a "Director" class paddle tug. Just one
point...the "Director" class tugs were attached to the RMAS and as
such were not painted in Royal Navy colours. The RMAS colours are
black hull, red boot top, white band on the gunwhales, and RMAS buff
(tan) upperworks. The buff funnel has a purplish blue stripe and
black top. By the way, the colour of the upperworks (superstructure)
in the "Model Boats" example is incorrect. The color is not "cream"
but definitely a more yellowish buff colour. If in doubt, this color
scheme is still used today.

Another idea came to mind when you mentioned "Military" paddlers.
During both World Wars, many civilian British excursion sidewheelers
were pressed into (usually) mine sweeping service and were painted in
Royal Navy colours along with some pretty wild camouflage patterns.
Some of their superstructures were quite substantially altered for
War service and they make very interesting modeling subjects. You'd
need to do a bit of research though.

As for building in metal or alloys....GREAT! Many ships were built
of iron and/or steel and there's no reason to avoid building a model
in metal if you have the skills and you can keep the hull weight down
so the completed ship (including all mechanical and control gear)
floats with the sponson decks at the correct height above the water.
You will see from my previous posts that I am obsessional about
paddler hull weight and keeping the centre of gravity low. I
certainly know of larger screw vessel models where waterline is more
forgiving being made of tin, but I've never heard of a paddler model
yet.

Keep us posted

Kind regards.

PJ
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

[Tony Mattson]

Hi Christian,

you mentioned that you have two kids that also might want to build
their own boats.. one of them wanted to see if there were any plans
available on a military vessel... sidewheeler of course.

If you/they want something REALLY different then check out the old
paddle wheel coal-burning steamers USS Wolverine (IX-64) and USS
Sable (IX-81). What attracts me to these ships is that they were
aircraft training carriers!

Try the following links for a brief intro to a really unusual
modelling subject:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/ix-64.htm
http://www.skyrocket.de/usnavy/data/ix-_64__wolverine.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/46064.htm
http://twaintimes.net/boat/sbpage5.htm

The last reference has a video clip of Wolverine's paddles, and a
pilot practicing his approaches, complete with a tornado in the
background (the weather pattern, not the B-45!).

Cheers
Tony
Auckland, NZ

[nolizard]

Hi all =)

Thank You all for the informations.

Tony: I will surely show those links for my kids
Paul: great, I'll try to order those magaziner right away

Kind Regards

Christian

[torbjorn]

Perhaps not quite as spectacular, but some of the ACW paddlers are
rather, eh, unsual. See for instance the Osprey
(http://www.ospreypublishing.com/) books:

Confederate Ironclad 1861–65 (New Vanguard 41)
Mississippi River Gunboats of the American Civil War 1861–65
(New Vanguard 49)
Union River Ironclad 1861–65 (New Vanguard 56)

> [...]
>
> Cheers
> Tony
> Auckland, NZ

/Torbjörn

[wsnowdon]

Hi Christian and welcome. Can I suggest the following plan for your
two children?. It is easily built, sturdy and sails well with the
option of steam or electric power.
PS PPRUNELLA CodeMM1233 from Nexus (publishers of MODEL BOAT
magazine in UK). 865mmlong, all balsa construction. It is typical
of a lot of European sidewheelers and as the majority of these ships
were armed during WW2, the addition of camouflage and a few guns
should satisfy their bloodthirsty nature! Use following address for
NEXUS online plans catalogue.
www.nexusonline.com
As for a metal paddler hull, forget it ! If you want to get a model
afloat in a reasonable amount of time, go for fireglass wood or
plastic. I have been building model boats for 55 years now and I have
seen very few metal models get past the early stages. A good friend
of mine started a metal paddle steamer ELEVEN years ago and has just
reached deck level! In the meantime he has built to completion
fifteen other large models.
If you must go for metal, 3 or 4 years ago one of the German Model
boat magazines published a very nice set of plans for a Rhine
sidewheel paddle tug with a quite simple one piece steel hull
including fullsize cutting and welding templates. About a metre long
with a simply built twin cylinder steam engine. ( A friend is
building it now from my set of plans, otherwise I could quote you the
magazine name and date and plan reference number). If you are still
considering FORCEFULL, Remember NEXUS do a nice one piece plastic
hull at a very reasonable price. (About £20 sterling). Hope this
helps you a little. Cheers for now, Walter.

[nolizard]

Greetings all,

and thank You all for Your tips. I'll keep looking for ideas.
Found a lot my self browsing the web. http://freespace.virgin.net/tom.lee/index.htm had a nice picture
gallery of many steampaddlers
There are a few plans
on paddlers at: www.xlistplans.demon.co.uk/Paddlers.htm
as well.

Unfortunatly the Nexus website was down... I'll check that
one later on.

Kind Regards

Christian