When is a model not a model?

[Tony Mattson]

Brett comments:

<<BTW - if a "model' is capable of carrying a 'man' it ceases to be a model !!
Its a small boat, albeit a very small version of a much larger craft.
Fortunately, Paddleducks welcomes paddle boats of all sizes :-)>>


If you apply that rule of thumb, would that have prevented Bill Wilkinson from entering his 1:12 scale paddlers in model display competitions? Quite conceivably your 'rule' would indeed prevent his entry, even though the only substantial difference is that Bill's ballast was 'living matter', as opposed to inert materials.

By the same token my 1:32 scale Reliant is clearly too small to carry me, but is nevertheless a small boat, albeit a very small version of a much larger craft.

Mate, next you'll be saying that underarm is a legitimate bowling technique in cricket! :-)

Cheers
Tony
Auckland, NZ

[Paulrjordan]

Hi Brett and Tony:

Maybe this will clarify things a little. I searched what I consider
to be five major online dictionaries and here are the results. The
first two results really raised my eyebrows and suggested Brett might
be entirely correct in rejecting Bill Wilkinson's ships
as "models"..but not for the reason he suggests:

Dictionary.com
"small object, usually built to scale, that represents in detail
another, often larger object."

Merriam-Webster online
"usually miniature representation of something".

Notice the words "small" and "miniature" and, although this must be
considered relatively, it's safe to say that Bill's models are
not "small" nor "miniature" by any modeling standard. Therefore,
this might well disqualify them from being considered "models".
However, I don't see any definition that suggests a "model" would be
disqualified as such by having a "live person" aboard.

The next definitions are less ambiguous and helped clear up the doubt
in my mind.

Cambridge Dictionary
model (REPRESENTATION) noun
"a representation of something, either as a physical object which is
usually smaller than the real object"


MSN Encarta
"a copy of an object, especially one made on a smaller scale than the
original ( often used before a noun ) as in model boat.

and :

representation of something (sometimes on a smaller scale)


Wordsmyth
a representation or copy, often smaller than the original and used as
a guide to making a thing in full size.

Here we see the word "Small-ER" rather than "Small" or "Miniature"
which created the confusion for me in earlier definitions. We also
see the phrases "USUALLY smaller", "SOMETIMES on a smaller scale"
and "OFTEN smaller". This clearly eliminates a model as having
ALWAYS to be smaller or even "small" or "miniature". For instance an
oversize rendition of a small bug in a Natural history Museum is
undeniably still a model! So it seems that in the end it's not a
question of size...(now where have I heard that before ?)

So I'll leave it up to you, guys...but to my way of thinking Bill
Wilkinson's ships can certainly be considered "Models" and VERY FINE
ones at that!

Very best regards to you both.

PJ
Victoria, BC Canada

[Joe E Brown]

I feel the best way to settle the model/ boat issue would be in the
operation of the vessel. Regardless if it can carry a person or not,
if it's radio controlled it's a model if it's driven by the person
aboard it would have to be a real boat. I think it would help in
categorizing boats in question.

[Bryant Owen]

How's this draft idea.

Model - no humans aboard, speed and direction controlled by radio,
pre-set instructions or whatever.

Replica - whatever scale but has humans aboard that control speed and
direction.

Bryant - who's almost sorry he started this discussion.

[gerald gardiner]

How about this,

Scale Model - a representation of a article at other than 1 to 1 scale. Humans, chimps, whatever aboard immaterial

Replica a 1 to 1 reproduction of an article.

Competition rules set what may control what

Gerald
Toronto Canada

[Bryant Owen]

So if I wanted to build a small Alligator that originally was 24' and
I get it down to 12' and I'm "driving" it onboard, it'd be a scale
model. If I built it to it's original size, it'd be a replica - even
though I'd be gasoline powered instead of steam? And if I built it
identical to the original, including copying the boiler, steam
engine, gears, etc. it'd be a reproduction? Sounds OK to me.

Bryant

[gerald gardiner]

Sounds good to me, and I would love to see the look on the Judge s's faces!
Gerald
Toronto Canada
PS If you want to talk about Alligator's John Brook's MAX will probably be at the antique and classic boat show in Gravenhurst at the beginning of July.

[TEX]

I'd call it a half scale model. If it was an exact copy of the
original, I'd call it a scaled replica. Replica sould be an eaxct
copy. My full size cannon is not a replica, but it looks good the
way I built it an clearly represents the gun I modeled it after.

Only problem is, I've seen few steam boat engines that are exact
replicas of the original. I consider reproductions a continuation of
the original, just like the reproduction Colt - Navy .36's that were
made by Colt several years ago. But, reproduction is a rather broad
term across industry. I'd probably call your smaller Alligator a
Mini Alligator.

I don't know if there is a specific answer. Everything gets so
misconscrewed. ... ) TEX

[TEX]

Sounds like the old "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

I build and collect cannons which are classed as:

Full Scale
Three Quarter Scale
Half Scale
Quarter Scale
Miniature

Even tho Bill Wilkinson could get in his boats, I still consider
them scale models since the components are not full size. After all,
a "scale" is simply a measuring device. There are many of such
devices, so I see how the word has no bearing on which class the
object is in.

As I understand it ... large boats are not allowed to compete, where
as in cannons, small guns are not allowed to compete. People with
smaller scale guns complain that the targets are too far and big
guns complain that the targets are too close. This was solved by
creating multiple classes.

In my mind, "replica" is an exact copy. I own a .44 cal Colt replica
and an original Navy Colt .36.

Take for example the winch on the deck of the boat shown on the main
page. It was a lot easier to build an operating one that size, than
it would be to build one half that size. Therefore, it would seem
the smaller version should be given more consideration for
difficulty, but it's still not easy to build the larger version. The
smaller one is cheaper to build than the larger, so maybe the larger
one should receive more consideration. I like am all, short or tall.

It's said that "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." Maybe it
should have said "Beauty and scale is in the eyes of the beholder".
It's all a matter of semantics anyway. ... ) TEX