Paddleducks

Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: Hankwilliams on December 23, 2018, 09:33:09 PM

Title: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 23, 2018, 09:33:09 PM
Hi friends and neighbors,

3 days ago I started a new built: One of the last constructed paddlers for the Irrawadday. Denny and Yarrow in 1947 shared a series of eight 200 ft paddlers, the construction was made by Denny, Dumbarton and was a slightly altered pre-war construction. The still preserved "Myat Yadana" in Bagan was made by Yarrow with the same plan.
Scale of my boat is 1 : 48, this gives a lenght of 132 cm. propulsion will like most of my other models by steam.

I wish you all a merry chrismas and a happy and succesful new year!

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on December 24, 2018, 11:50:16 AM
Hullo THomas....we think :gathering..that this will be another for your fleet, so will watch the build as it progresses

What steam engine & boiler combination do you propose?

Enjoy the Festive Season

regards Derek
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 31, 2018, 11:14:04 PM
Hi Derek and all,

probably I will install the American Graham twocylinder engine like in the similar seized "Marchioness of Lorne". Boiler I will make by myself, a flame tube type with 100 mm diameter and 110 mm lenght in front of the engine should be the correct choice.
I considered a long time between blockade runner "Presto" or the Irrawaddy steamer. But the hull of "Presto" is very shallow, it would be difficult to install a horizontal boiler.

Happy new year!
Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on January 11, 2019, 11:20:41 PM
Last week I got the 4 volumes Denny List, edited by the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich. A unique work, one find plan sketches of many Denny built vessels between 1846 and 1960. Also many paddlers, most built for colonial rivers in Burma, India and Africa. It should be possible, to buy copies of the plans by the NMM.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on January 17, 2019, 03:47:15 AM
The hull is nearly ready, the white color is from the glue. Next work will be a coat of one component epoxy resin (G 4) inside and outside of the hull for complete watertightness.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: DamienG on January 17, 2019, 09:50:24 PM
 :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on January 21, 2019, 12:06:21 AM
Same advance took place, wheel galleries are installed. Tomorrow I will work with resin to make a watertight and solid coat of the hull.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: burberix on February 02, 2019, 07:18:46 AM
Poplar or marine plywood? And the balsa hull?
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 03, 2019, 02:59:16 AM
It`s birch plywood with oak fillets. Bow and stern parts are of pine wood. After the coat with G 4 resin in- and outside hull, the wood got very hard and absolute watertight. Meantime the hull is painted and finished. I must consider the next steps of work - superstructure or boiler making? I prefer last.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 03, 2019, 03:12:21 AM
I will make the boat to the original state like the plans shows. The 8 similar steamers built by Denny and Yarrow were altered after some years like the preserved "Myat Yadana" ex "Minthamee", built by Yarrow in 1948. But the picture gives a good impression of the boat and some details.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 05, 2019, 08:55:04 PM
Boiler making.
Last days I made the boiler for my boat. Fortunately it was possible to use the outer part from the failured boiler for "China", I made nearly 3 years ago.
This time the flame tube was tight from the beginning. It`s no very great work to built a boiler, but even the pressure test is thrilling - are there leaks or not? Pressure test made until 5 bar with hot water - completely tight! Some parts like safety valve, water gauge and manometer are missing, but ordered by Regner.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: DamienG on February 05, 2019, 10:19:01 PM
 :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :great :great :great :great :great
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Paddlemex on February 06, 2019, 03:41:25 AM

Congratulations Thomas,

Do you build your boilers from parts and pipes from the hardware store or do you use parts from Regner?

Jurgen
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 06, 2019, 10:40:46 AM
Thanks Damian and Jürgen. I use parts from hardware service, for example copper tubes for the flame tube from installation shops. Its the cheapest and best way to build a boiler which must have special dimensions. The outer part is made from brass 63, which is certificated for pressure containers and boilers.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 10, 2019, 08:49:19 AM
First steam up!
Boiler, gas tank and burner are functionable now. I want direcly driven paddles, but space between boiler and paddleshaft is rather less, so I can`t use a normal soldering-burner. After some experiments with homemade ceramic- and short solder - burners I take the ceramic-burner from my paddler "Welf" (model of African research steamer). It`s possible, to install a normal soldering-burner to last one. After 10 minutes a pressure of 3 bar was reached.
Next job are the feathered paddlewheels, the Graham TVa engine also is ordered.
Now one can imaginate, that the boat will be once a paddlesteamer!

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on February 10, 2019, 10:46:14 AM
Well Thomas....we see  :gathering ...that you had plenty of 20 mm diameter 90 degree bends & caps left over from the boiler internals

I must admit recently seeing a few French built gas tanks that are long & like a sausage  :whistle .   and a builder Daniel Buroard   some years back, built a duplex set of tanks........but I have not seen a gas tank in the shape of a U ......but :thinking ....why not?

In Australia, such a privately constructed gas tank would be required to a 25 Bar test pressure from a cold water static test

Looking at the form of your construction, the wetted surface area on diameter for the silver soldering on the 90 degree bends & caps is approximately x 3 of the general endcap surface area we see on Commercially built tanks....so if the wall thickness of the copper tube spools & fittings is adequate....& properly soldered....the tank should pass with flying Colours

Do you attempt a calculation on theoretical volume, or a more acceptable nomination of the weight of gas able to be filled.......[about 220 gms?]

Derek


Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 10, 2019, 09:35:12 PM
Hi Derek,
yes, it`s also necessary to see the theoretical aspects of gas fired installations. The inside diameter of the copper tubes are 26 mm, of the angles 28 mm. Lenght altogether is 270 mm, this gives a theoretical volume of 143 cc.
Weight of propane/butane is about 0,6 gramm/cc, the result is a weight of about 85 gramms - theoretical. Practical of course it`s less, may be 70. It`s important, that the liquid gas is vaporisized, before reaches the burner, otherwise the flame will be extinguished or the nozzle will obstruct. This can be avoided by a longer connection between gas tank and burner.
To pressure test: I don`t have the possibility to make an exact pressure test with gas tanks, it`s more a matter of experience. In practice, the silver soldered tank is filled with gas and put in a cold water bowl. If no leaks are visible, the water will gradual slowly heated until ca. 80 ° Celsius. This temparature will never reached in later practical use, are no leaking at this temperature shows that the gas tank is ok.
I`ve made about 15 gas tanks with this method and never saw any problem. For further security I made a tightness test with flame at the gas junctions before every heating up.
In practical use with steamboat models it`s absolutely necessary, that first the spark flame (?) will be at the burner and after this, the gas valve will be opened. With this precautionary measures the running of a steamboat model is pure joy! Now I hope, my post is not too long?
Many regards Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on February 11, 2019, 07:52:50 AM
Thanks Thomas.....no, your postings are never too long....we always enjoy at reading times  :gathering

Seriously thou, your posting does open up the scenario that gas tanks do not necessarily to be that one short or long sausage  :ranting

Looking forward to seeing your long stroke [36mm?] engine coupled with your space restriction...which we know you will resolve

Derek  :beer
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 11, 2019, 08:46:16 AM
Thanks Derek - just one thought about gas pressure and temperature: The Mixture of Propan/ Butan is 30 to 70, this gives a pressure of nearly 18 bar at 80° Celsius - not enough for Australia regulations, but I think, for practcal use it`s safe.
The Graham engine has a stroke of 16 mm. But the wheels diameter are only 85 mm, so I hope the torque will be sufficient.

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Paddlemex on February 12, 2019, 10:55:50 AM

Hi Thomas,

The gas tank looks great and, with the calculations you have posted, safe too.

But …. why the strange U shape of the tank? From the pictures there seems to be enough space to fit a "normal" cylindrical tank.
Or is it - as Derek says - because you a lot of of 20mm 90° bends left over? ???

Jurgen
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 12, 2019, 08:18:15 PM
yes, the main reason was that one can buy this copper tubes and angles in every hardware/installation shop for low costs. A bigger diameter brass tube I had to order at special shops. The volume must be sufficient, but the tube should not be too long for this boat - I also have made gas tanks from a longer single 28 mm copper tube with one angle at it`s end where the gas valve was installed. I now have 20 steam driven boats, of course it was also necessary to pay attention for practical and not too high costs.

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 18, 2019, 08:01:45 AM
paddlewheels built and installed!
This was a one week work with 0,8 mm brass sheet, M2 and M1 screws and so on. The wheels are turning now quite well, but improving should be possible. Diameter is only 85 mm, lenght of the paddles 65 mm. The angles of dip in and dip out are now good as you see at the pictures.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: DamienG on February 18, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
 :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :beer :beer
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Paddlemex on February 19, 2019, 12:53:26 PM

Nice Thomas, and quick.

From the last picture it seems that have placed the eccentricity forward AND a bit down. Is that so or is it an illusion due to view angle?

Jurgen
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 20, 2019, 03:39:09 AM
Hi Jürgen,

the eccentricity in every case is forward of the paddleshaft, but aproximately on the same level. The wheel should be turning easily and without squeezing. It`s a question of trial and error, to find the best point for fixing the wheel excenter.

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Paddlemex on February 21, 2019, 06:41:39 AM

Thanks Thomas,

I was intrigued because on the picture it looks like it was downward a bit.
I think that during my research on the internet I have seen a mechanism where additional to forward the eccentricity was also somewhat down. But, again, I may be remembering something that can not be.

Jurgen

Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 24, 2019, 08:38:00 AM
Some advance took place: The rudder steering essential it`s like original. Of course in the original boat the wire rope is connected to the steering wheel, here with the servo in a hatch. I hope, that I will soon get the Graham kit for the engine, I like to to a test run under steam in my plexi glass basin.

Many regards Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: DamienG on February 24, 2019, 07:34:20 PM
Looking mighty good Thomas.  :bravo :bravo :bravo :bravo :bravo :bravo
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on February 24, 2019, 09:34:00 PM
Evening Thomas......I don't know how you :hammer  build so fast  .....but it is pleasing to see the deck camber   :great

I would have great trepidation in using cotton twine as the failsafe  in steering.......would very finely stranded nickle plated copper wire not provide a greater factor of safety?  :ranting

Derek
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 24, 2019, 11:09:04 PM
Yes Derek, you may be right - probably it would be better to replace the cotton twine through metal wire. But first of all I wanted to see, whether the angle of rudder would be correct or not. When the boat will do the test runs in water basin, one will see, which alterings and improvements are necessary.
Today I make the window frames and the doors of the deck house.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Paddlemex on February 28, 2019, 04:48:12 AM

Hello Thomas,

As an alternative you may consider stainless fishing line.
Steba Modellbau had some very thin stainless steel cables in the program, down to 0.3mm.
But I don't know if they are still active. The last update of their homepage is 2017.

Jurgen
 
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on March 11, 2019, 05:38:03 AM
Dear friends and neighbors,

The boat got some advance, engine kit arrives last thursday. Graham engine was built, testet and converted to a diagonal one. In the next days we will see, whether the torque of the engine shaft will be strong enought for direct driving or not. In the second case a gear reduction with cogwheels could be simply realized, the engine would be a little more behind.
Another good news: The chief editor of the german "Maschinen im Modellbau" visited us. I will publish a book "Steam engines in marine modelling" - of course in geman language. To write the book, I got time of one year. I will do my best.

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on March 11, 2019, 08:06:54 AM
Well Thomas......congratulations on your new role in life as mature engine builder author  ....it would be great to read a copy after completion even just to look at the pictures  :kewlpics

With the Graham engine, you could consider soft soldering the lubrication holes in the big end bearings, and add M3 tapped holes [@ 90 degrees to original] for plexi-glass tube lubricator bodies from Jin....

We understand the axis would be that as the offset off the vertical [15 degrees?] however again this would not be an issue 

I have added these to my Saito Y2DR....

They serve the purpose well and look to suit the period in engineering design

Derek

 
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on March 11, 2019, 08:47:11 AM
Thanks Derek. Of course you will get one book when it is finished  and published. The bearings of the Graham engine are now twisted (?), it`s a good idea to
change the oiling in the way you described. Your Saito looks awsome, not like a model engine, but an engine at real size. Building a steamboat, again and again one is confronted with unexpected problems, but fortunately the solution will be found after a while.
Nearly 11 clock in the evening - time to sit in a rocking chair with a glass of wine and let the thoughts go by...

regards  Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: DamienG on March 11, 2019, 03:17:30 PM
 :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

Nice to know your talent is appreciated Thomas.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Paddlemex on March 12, 2019, 11:18:01 AM

Congrats for your new job as a book editor.
But don't stop posting your advance on the ship building. We are very few.

Jurgen

P.S. I normally buy a copy of Maschinen im Modellbau at the airport for the flight back after visiting Deutschland.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on March 13, 2019, 07:57:07 AM
Thanks Jurgen. In MiM I published many articles.
First steam up today - not in water - to see the function of engine and paddlewheels. I decided for a slighly gear reduction of 5 : 4, the engine can be better removed than with direct drive. Function was quite well, as you see, the wheels turning fast. Tomorrow I will do a test run in the water basin.

Thomas
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: DamienG on March 13, 2019, 02:21:44 PM
A work of art Thomas.  :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :bravo :clap
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on March 14, 2019, 04:03:07 PM
Thomas......when viewing another WEB steam engine build image, I immediately thought of your Graham and the relationship of the big end bearings & lubrication

The next image displays a  similar scenario of off axis drilling for the oil tapping taking into account, the angularity of the bearing block housing

The hole does not need to be on axis, but  on any line that intersects and makes a break thru  :hammer with the bore of the bearing....

I am sure you understand what I mean....

Derek
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on March 14, 2019, 11:30:04 PM
First sieam up in water basin!
Today I made a first test trial in water. Some ballast was needed, with 6,3 kg deplacement the boat reached the waterline. After 7 minutes the boiler got nearly 2 bar pressure and I opened hackworth gear and steam valve. Last was not tight, I can`t stop the engine with the old Regner steam valve. Paddlewheels turning were fast, more than by the much bigger "China". Thought the still open paddleboxes the sides of the boat got wet after short time. Pressure was between 1,5 and 2 bar, minimum for turning the wheels 0,7 bar. The acceleration seems sufficient, but one can`t say some certain of speed in the short basin. Grade of efficience with this small 85 mm diameter wheels seems rather less, although they are fethered - but obviously with the higher rotation the models speed will be sufficient. With the wide hull and the box like underwater form the boat lies very stable in water, in opposite of the long and narrow "Courier" there is absolutely no tendence of list.
The Graham engine I used in 3 of my boats, screw driven "Syrinx", paddler "Marchioness of Lorne" and the present. From my expericence this is a worth of money, semi high fidelity and rather strong engine, slide valve geared, for medium sized models.
Title: Re: New project started: Irrawaddy paddler "Mindan" 1948
Post by: Hankwilliams on March 15, 2019, 04:03:38 AM
Derek, I don`t want to dimish the necessity of oiling of the engine bearings. Indeed the rpm may be reach 200 by full ahead (160 of paddleshaft). Our models are no merchandise goods with daily use. When I consider, some of my boats are running just a few hours in one year. From my experience it`s completely adequate to oil the shaft and gear bearings before running with automobile oil. For example, the old Regner 14/18 of "Hope", 25 years old, is like new, also the brass bearings with steel shaft.

Many regards
Thomas