Paddleducks

Paddler Modelling => Paddlewheels/Drive Systems => Topic started by: Twain on August 12, 2015, 06:13:55 AM

Title: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on August 12, 2015, 06:13:55 AM
Hello, All,

 I was recently given a model paddle steamer that had been stored for years, and that had at some time fallen off the shelf where it was stored (ouch!).

The model is a rendering of the side-wheel steamer "Bay of Quinte," which was built in Kingston, Ontario, Canada in 1853 and destroyed or dismantled in the 1880's. There are no extant photographs, but the builder of this model used a contemporary sketch and photos of similar craft to plan his model.

Anyway, now that I have it, I'd like to fix it up a bit and get it running again. First, I don't really want to keep the electric propulsion system that was in it (and that was hurled loose in The Fall [sounds like Milton, somehow...]), and second, I must repair the paddle wheels, one of which was somewhat broken, again in The Fall.

I have an unused Wilesco D 48, but am hesitant to install it, because it just doesn't seem "right," so I'm working on a V-twin engine and custom boiler, but this is taking a long time due to all my other commitments.

I'd like to make new paddle wheels from brass, and am searching for drawings, but my limited perusal of this site suggests that brass isn't too popular an idea, though I'm not quite sure why.

I hope to search this site for assistance in these areas. Any help from members would be appreciated.

I'd like to hear from you all.
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Spankbucket on August 14, 2015, 05:35:37 PM
Hi there

There are what appear to be strengthening bracing bars? Is that as per the prototype? Interesting...
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on August 15, 2015, 01:08:35 AM
I don't know what those things are, and to date haven't been able to find anyone else who will even hazard a guess. They are on the prototype, though, and they're also on other Lake Ontario steamers, such as the Varuna, shown here in Belleville, Ontario, home port of the Bay of Quinte.

Anyone know what these poles/bars/braces do?



Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: R.G.Y. on August 15, 2015, 02:00:51 AM
The reason brass is usually avoided, is the weight on the outside of a slim shallow draft hull. Causing stability problems.  Looking at the pictures of your model the draft & breath seam adequate. But it is disappointing if you have to scrap a wheel for being to heavy. Just copy the wheel you have. Especially as you intend fitting a boiler, which will increase the C of G.  Been there done that.
As for the bracing on the sides, just a guess but I think they are there to stop the pier protruding into the side deck, when docking. The curved bars on the side of the cabins up to the top of the wheel box, they are most likely hull bracing, a piece missing aft the box?  This was found on vessels with shallow hulls. As the builder only had limited information, it is down to interpolation.   
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on August 17, 2015, 03:24:12 AM
Here's what I've been told about the poles/bars along the side of these steamers:

"The bars are lock/dock boards that were used to protect the hull as the boats came alongside.  They were especially needed in the early propellers and all the wheelers because they had little ability to control side motion ....... particularly with their relatively shallow draft and large windage."

This information comes from a model shipwright who has actually performed some research and built a model of the Bay of Quinte, so I accept his expertise without question.

You can see that the "dock boards" on my model are not accurately represented, appearing to be a structural feature rather than the movable fenders they're supposed to be. I'll fix that as I re-model....
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: DamienG on August 17, 2015, 11:54:06 PM
 :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: steamboatmodel on August 19, 2015, 11:23:40 AM
The bars at the sides are side protectors. The pull them back out of the water when running so they do'nt bang against hull. If you look up some of Richard Tatley's books on boating in the Muskokas you will see it was a common practice.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on August 19, 2015, 11:44:31 PM
All right. Now we've got the dock board/fender/side protector question settled, and I'll put the information to good use.

BTW, I've finally found my sketch of the original "Bay of Quinte," so here it is, drawn by Charles Snider (1879-1971), noted Canadian journalist as well as  marine artist and archaeologist, who is known to have consulted extensively with "old-timers" in producing his works, so I'm taking this as a pretty accurate sketch. The fellow who built my steamer must have seen the sketch, I think....

Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on February 11, 2018, 12:43:19 PM
Haven't worked on this in some time, but am now back at it. I've decided to retain the electric drive system as I'm quite worried about the risk of fire associated with a steam plant.

I need help in one area: ESC. I just found out about these speed controllers today, and would like to know what I need to replace the existing mechanical speed  control for my  Decaperm 6-volt 7-amp brushed motor, which I'll run with a Spektrum DS6i 2.4 GHz 6-channel transmitter and AR6200 receiver.

Any help would be most appreciated.
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Spankbucket on February 11, 2018, 08:06:31 PM
Are those drive components (Chain, Gears, Shafts etc.) Meccano by any chance?

I have had lots of troubles with esc's myself due to my own incompetence. There are some dismaying videos of models aflame due to them around on model boat sites!  I hasten to add I have never personally had a fire but you doe have to choose the appropriate 'ampereage rating' in advance.

I have a 30+ year  boat (not a paddler) that I chose to keep running with its old printed-circuit board servo driven speed controller! She's called 'Luddite'!!
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on February 12, 2018, 08:51:16 AM
Yes, the countershaft parts, chain, etc. are Meccano. I had a tobacco can full of gears and other small parts that I found at a yard sale, and they just seemed right for this.  The boat itself came with one Meccano gear and the right diameter paddlewheel shaft.

I still need, though, to find out what the amperage should be for the ESC. Any suggestions? My battery is 6v, 4.5 amp hours, and the motor is rated at 7 amps max. I'll be driving two 16- float paddles about 8" in dianeter and 1" thick.

Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Spankbucket on February 12, 2018, 07:18:51 PM
I am sure someone in the group would be better placed to answer you as I find it all a black art!!
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: steamboatmodel on February 15, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Yes, the countershaft parts, chain, etc. are Meccano. I had a tobacco can full of gears and other small parts that I found at a yard sale, and they just seemed right for this.  The boat itself came with one Meccano gear and the right diameter paddlewheel shaft.

I still need, though, to find out what the amperage should be for the ESC. Any suggestions? My battery is 6v, 4.5 amp hours, and the motor is rated at 7 amps max. I'll be driving two 16- float paddles about 8" in dianeter and 1" thick.
With a  Decaperm 6-volt 7-amp brushed motor, you could use a 10 or 15 amp ESC, but put a 5amp fuse in the battery lead.
Two things you should include is have the walking beam move and make the anti hog bracing on the sides as that is a distinct feature on the Quinte.
Gerald.
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on February 16, 2018, 01:38:18 AM
Yes, the countershaft parts, chain, etc. are Meccano. I had a tobacco can full of gears and other small parts that I found at a yard sale, and they just seemed right for this.  The boat itself came with one Meccano gear and the right diameter paddlewheel shaft.

I still need, though, to find out what the amperage should be for the ESC. Any suggestions? My battery is 6v, 4.5 amp hours, and the motor is rated at 7 amps max. I'll be driving two 16- float paddles about 8" in dianeter and 1" thick.
With a  Decaperm 6-volt 7-amp brushed motor, you could use a 10 or 15 amp ESC, but put a 5amp fuse in the battery lead.
Two things you should include is have the walking beam move and make the anti hog bracing on the sides as that is a distinct feature on the Quinte.
Gerald.

Thanks, Gerald.

I'm working on the walking beam. Here's a video of the reduction gearing and simulated (FAKE!) walking beam in action. Hard to see, but you should get the idea.

For the walking beam, I just made a cam from a disc-shaped slice of aluminum (or aluminium) drilled off-centre (no alternative spelling here; I'm Canadian) and pinned it to the paddlewheel shaft, then affixed a fork made of jatoba wood (very hard, very dense) to the lower end of the beam's connecting rod so that I could lower the superstructure into place without fiddling with an eccentric strap or other more permanent fastener. The jatoba fork just rides in a groove in the cam, and a lead weight just above the fork helps hold the rod assembly in place. The green masking tape where the connecting rod attaches to the walking beam is just a temporary fix; I'll make a nifty little clevis for that later.

BTW, nice citation from Lazarus Long. Haven't read Heinlein since about 1969.


https://youtu.be/BucjVRjAvfE
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 16, 2018, 09:44:53 PM
Hi Twain,

what`s about a real working walking beam engine with steam? The draught and breadht of the model seems sufficient to make it`s steam driven. With parts usual in trade the expense would be not too big...

Thomas
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on February 17, 2018, 12:42:53 AM
Is that yours, Thomas? It's very impressive.

I decided against steam because of my fear of fire, but that paddler looks very tempting. For now, I'll complete the electrics in the Bay of Quinte and settle for my Krick Victoria, but the thought of steam will always be there....
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Hankwilliams on February 18, 2018, 04:43:27 AM
Thanks Twain

yes, it`s my "Mt. Washington". Draught was extended because of the weight of the engine. Perhaps your next model will be steam driven...

Thomas
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: Twain on February 18, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
I've already started on my next model, or at least the engine for it--and it is steam-driven. I've  completed the steam-powered outboard motor for the Polly Wog launch described in the August, 1933 issue of Popular Mechanics. It's just a matter of time till I get to the boat....
Title: Re: Bay Of Quinte
Post by: steamboatmodel on March 03, 2018, 03:20:47 AM
Thanks Twain

yes, it`s my "Mt. Washington". Draught was extended because of the weight of the engine. Perhaps your next model will be steam driven...

Thomas
Thomas that is amassing, I have seen a couple of electric "Mt. Washington" models and they have all been flat water models with low freeboard. How much did you extend the Draught? Do you have any videos of the engine running?
Gerald.