Paddleducks

Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: apointofview on February 09, 2015, 10:17:44 AM

Title: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on February 09, 2015, 10:17:44 AM
Here I go into uncharted waters ! :P
I have never built a boat of any kind so why not start out over my head.  I wanted to build a boat that looks similar to the sternwheeler down in Disney.  It was built to represent the look and feel of the riverboats of long ago.  I figure it would make a good subject to use as a pattern for my attempt.  Another benefit is my wife is more supportive of it because it means a ' research trip ' to go see the details. 

I started off with a little drawing on my custom graphite 2D design system.

Once I got a rough outline of what I wanted I scaled it up to the size needed to support the weight I anticipate it will be.  I am just making a wild stab at the 50lb mark but who knows. I never did this before.  I need a weight to figure a waterline to set the paddle depth which will determine the deck height !!  If I guess wrong I can ballast it if I am too light.  If its to heavy then it will be surgery I guess.  After the big drawing I started cutting foam for a mock up.  I use the 1/4 inch blue fan fold stuff from Lowes.  Its a lot cheaper that wood and easier to make changes.  The first build up looked short and fat, so I added some length to the hull in the middle.  That helped but it was still funny lookin.  I added more to the bow, but that takes it to a length that wont fit sideways in the back of the minivan ( ugg now its either haul out the truck to go float this thing or pull a seat out of the van )   



Anyway the look was still not right but looking at images of the real boat closer showed me that the sides of the upper decks lean inboard.  I cut down the floors of each deck to get the right lean and now its getting better.  I have a lot more adjusting to do, but progress is being made, I think.  The top deck in these shots hasnt been cut down yet.  I want to finalize almost everything in foam before going to wood and fiberglass.  I think it will take awhile.


I should have built a smaller steam engine.  It will be way way out of scale for the hull, but I doubt anyone will care, I know I dont.  I just want it to float and propel itself with steam and not catch fire, explode, and or sink !!  :)


Looks like my dining room table workbench is about outlasted its welcome too, so I will have to clear off the work bench to continue.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on February 09, 2015, 04:10:56 PM
Hi PD's....& welcome 'APOV'   :coffee so lets start with a few basics

We see you have the hull completed...so you must first calculate the internal volume of the hull from the water line down

eg.,  lets say your hull is 1000 mm long x 200 mm wide and sits 50 mm deep in the water

1000x200x50 ..so in cubic mm ~~ so this is approximately 10 litres of water or 10 kg of mass required to get the vessel down to it's 50 mm draft line ~ well that is for a plain pontoon shape.........you will need to make some estimations of the reduction in volume with the pointed bow & stern...so depending on the form of the hull......this same 100 x200x50 may be reduced in volume by say 1.2 kg?

So from there...you need to estimate/weigh and add the weight of the complete hull plus the weight of all of the steam components = the vessels total displacement

BTW...those mirror reversed steam cylinder & drive assemblies look  :kiss1 ...please tell more about the engine & the build

This is not a difficult task....you just need to be methodical and all will be OK...

Come back & tell us more ...... Derek :beer




Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on February 10, 2015, 12:49:47 AM
Derek,
Thanks for the info on what I need to do to figure out my waterline.  I think the hull size is getting closer to its final size.  I will be building the real hull out of plywood and the superstructure with something to keep it light.  Its tall so I dont want it to be tipsy.  Guessing the weight of the unbuilt ship seems like it will be hard.

As far as the steam engines and boiler build, here is a link to the thread that I used to show the steps I have taken to get where it is now. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=22191

This is an early run on compressed air - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lkgsXzCYoM
there are several more videos on my youtube channel showing the engine.

It has been several years in the making, a little here and a little there when I have time to work on it.  I am to the point where I need the boat to be built to get all the support equipment built and positioned correctly.

Lots of work but sure is fun,
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on February 10, 2015, 08:13:05 AM
Goodness Pete...that is some engine build....congratulations :bravo....& the video link confirmed a few things

1. from the image below, it is a twin engine build ...not a twin cylinder engine as there is no interconnecting crankshaft between each engine
2. so with respect to timing the engines @ 90 degrees,  [and maintaining the timing] does this rely on the mechanical rigidity of the Pullman arms, linkages, the paddle wheel axle and all?

By reading your WEB thread it appears that the vessel hull selection is not yet set in stone  :crash....so from this point it would seem criminal to install such an engine hidden behind a deckhouse superstructure

One alternate here could be to consider a smaller sized vessel with open engine casing walls but build her to a larger scale & hence the same~~~physical model size & displacement

Naturally this could also be used to display the boiler and ancillary components etc

In one of your WEB images we see cotton string lagging on the steam tubes.......these as is will get oily & dirty :sobbing

For my long time engine assembly, I copied a concept from a member of Model Boats Mayhem in UK .......

1. Superglue a 1/8" ID white nylon washer at each end of the pipe spool
2. wrap with cotton string as you have....& secure at each end with superglue
3. apply a Polyfiller [wall & ceiling paste] over the string
4. allow to dry & carefully sand the OD  to a uniform diameter & straightness
5. paint with enamel undercoat & enamel  gloss top coat

Any oily marks  or splashes simply wipe away  :whistle

Best of luck with your build & certainly keep us posted......... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on February 11, 2015, 01:32:49 AM
Goodness Pete...that is some engine build....congratulations :bravo....& the video link confirmed a few things

1. from the image below, it is a twin engine build ...not a twin cylinder engine as there is no interconnecting crankshaft between each engine
2. so with respect to timing the engines @ 90 degrees,  [and maintaining the timing] does this rely on the mechanical rigidity of the Pullman arms, linkages, the paddle wheel axle and all?

Derek,
I have always looked at my power plant as one engine.  Each cylinder is double acting and the paddle shaft is the crank shaft.  I am not sure what a Pullman arm is but my guess is the wood beams that connect the piston rod to the paddle shaft arms.  I have called those connecting rods ( guess that's wrong ).  The whole system does rely on the ships deck to hold it all together and keep the timing correct, so I guess it acts like the frame of the engine.  So far the whole assembly has kept time really well on the particle board test bed.  That board has even warped a little over the years and the engine has been quite tolerant of the movement.  I plan on building a very strong structure for that area of the boat.


By reading your WEB thread it appears that the vessel hull selection is not yet set in stone  :crash....so from this point it would seem criminal to install such an engine hidden behind a deckhouse superstructure

One alternate here could be to consider a smaller sized vessel with open engine casing walls but build her to a larger scale & hence the same~~~physical model size & displacement


You are right the vessel is not set in stone.  That is why I am using that blue foam and hot glue right now.  What I have built is just a full size mock-up of what I want to build and it is all subject to change.  I am a very visual kind of guy so I needed to design using this method rather than just drawings. 

I am attaching a couple of pictures of what I am trying to make my vessel look like.  My engines are not even close to scale with the size I am building but thats fine by me.  The open design of the decks should show off the engine and boiler well.  What do you think ?


In one of your WEB images we see cotton string lagging on the steam tubes.......these as is will get oily & dirty :sobbing

For my long time engine assembly, I copied a concept from a member of Model Boats Mayhem in UK .......

1. Superglue a 1/8" ID white nylon washer at each end of the pipe spool
2. wrap with cotton string as you have....& secure at each end with superglue
3. apply a Polyfiller [wall & ceiling paste] over the string
4. allow to dry & carefully sand the OD  to a uniform diameter & straightness
5. paint with enamel undercoat & enamel  gloss top coat

Any oily marks  or splashes simply wipe away  :whistle


Thats a great idea!! My cotton has gotten quite dirty already ( some of it has charred near the boiler burner door, turns out you shouldnt leave that open for any length of time  :) )

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments !!!!!
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on February 20, 2015, 12:28:14 PM
Ok this displacement and balance calculation task has been a real head scratcher.  I understand the idea that I need to have a good idea of what my boat will weigh and how big the hull is to figure out how low into the water the hull will go.  What has been a challenge to figure out is the balancing of all the various heavy items in the boat.  The paddle alone weighs 4lbs 4oz and its center shaft hangs over the water 6 inches behind the hull.  The total weight of the propulsion system weighs 23 lbs, but most of it is concentrated on the aft side of the ship.   I tried to use a program recommended by Dave ( delftship ) but I am way too stupid to come close to getting my hull shape into that program.  I really dont have the time it would take to understand that program.  So I went with using a board with all the heavy items placed on it at the distances they will sit in the hull.  Using a nice round battery to balance all that on, I found the overall center of gravity of all the propulsion components.  I marked that distance on the mockup hull and it looked bad.
It took forever to try to get a similar lifting center out of the hull.  My guess is that the lifting ability of the hull should have a center point and if the center of the equipment in the boat matches the center point of the lifting ability of the hull I should be good.  ( hopefully thats right :) ) I used geometry to get the area of the hull.  I broke the length of the hull up into three parts, the curved area of the bow, the rectangular area of the bulk of the hull, and the part of the stern that tapers up to the surface to allow water to flow to the paddle more smoothly.  I think the numbers I came up with are pretty close.  Since I have just a flat bottom barge like hull the numbers are easier to calculate than if it had a curvy v shape.  ( I would be toast if I had to come up with a volume on something like that.)   After getting those three volumes and their lifting center locations figured I used a formula I found on the web that figures out the center of gravity of a 3 axle truck.  I know that sounds really wrong but I hope that the three lifting volume centers can be looked at like the three axles on a truck.  Each has to support some of the total weight  depending on their location.  The formula was here - http://www.bendpak.com/support/balancing-safety/
That gave me a lifting center point and I had the equipment center of gravity, so I lined them up on the floor and re-balanced the board with all the equipment on it to have it balance at the same point as the results of the lifting calculation on the hull.  It took 5lbs of steel at the very front of the bow to get the two points to match up !!  Seems like a lot.  That brings to total weight of the balanced equipment to 28 lbs 4 oz  The super structure is fairly symmetrical so it shouldn't change the CG much.  It will make the boat go lower into the water, which will effect paddle height,  so I wont be able to set the stern height in stone till I get closer to done.

The other Idea I had to deal with the heavy stern would be to make the hull deeper towards the rear of the ship to offset the weight, yet still have the boat appear level above the waterline.  It would look odd out of the water though.  Would that be better than ballast in the bow ? Would that even work, and would it make it more unstable ?

Thats a lot of word out of me, I hope it makes sense, it does in my head.  I just want to see if you guys think I am totally lost and did this all wrong.  Feel free to point out my mistakes, I have never built a boat other than a milk carton sailboat as a kid !!!

Pete

A couple of pick to help out - I dont want to have my boat look like the first picture !!!!
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on February 20, 2015, 02:45:08 PM
Pete....if we could go back a few steps  :nono

1. the machinery is built ...so set in stone  :whistle
2. the hull is still an open semi filled canvas
3. you are going on the water so forget any centre of gravity of a 3 axle truck concept  :shoot ...your vessel [displacement] should be considered as a single flat level plank
4. rather than be concerned with ballast up FWD to overcome the waterline levelling issue, consider moving the boiler and make up water tank up FWD
5. the only downside here is the length of the steam lines to the engines which can be adequately catered for with lagging 
6. there are plenty of American early stern paddle wheelers with exposed boiler & engine spaces  :trophy

Just one more question....[may sound silly] if you orientated the engine & wheels with the boiler into the hull as shown in image 0091, do they all fit?

Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on February 21, 2015, 02:42:24 AM
Derek,
Well the hull needs to be as close to the Disney design as I can make it, no real reason why except I want to see if I can do it and my wife loves that place and wants to go to the park for "research".  So it is set in stone as far as the outside appearance.

With the single flat plank method how do I figure out the weight distribution without building a watertight hull and testing ?

I thought items such as water and fuel had to be close to center so as they are consumed the trim of the hull remains steady.

I cant move the boiler fwd much  more than an inch, but your question on does it all fit got me thinking.  I am not sure if you meant it but with a few gas line changes the boiler might be able to fit in the hull 90 degrees to the way I planed and therefore move more of the weight fwd. Hmmm a couple of problems will be the exhaust stack of the boiler and my current feed water pump design.  I will have to think about that for awhile.

Everything fits easily, I just have all the parts set on the skinny board in those orientations so they would not fall off.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Gerhardvienna on February 21, 2015, 06:06:21 AM
I thought items such as water and fuel had to be close to center so as they are consumed the trim of the hull remains steady.
Pete

Hi Pete
Dont forget, the engine will have some weight too. So it may be better, to place the boiler and the gas tank a bit forward out of the center.
Regards
Gerhard
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on February 22, 2015, 10:09:02 AM
Thanks Gerhard I will keep it in mind.

I measured and measured and ended up with more numbers that looked good.  It was time to see if I ended up with a reasonable setup for weight distribution in real life.  Instead of trying to build a watertight hull , I went with reinforcing the foamy mockup to support the bottom of the hull so when the propulsion components were place on the foam they would deflect the foam only a small amount so as not to mess with my displacement calculations.  Then I skinned the bottom of the hull with foam and then water proofed it with a piece of plastic sheet that was just taped to the boat above the waterline.  I also marked some depth lines measured from the bottom of the foam

I built a ' dry dock' and lined it with more plastic and put the boat and all its hardware in it along with the 5 lbs of ballast that my calculations said I would need.  Threw in the garden hose and started filling. 

The  hull floated right about where the math said it should and was only about a 1/4 in off from bow to stern.  That was most likely due to the fact that the bow sides have a curve to them and my geometry layout just made nice triangles with no curves so the real area was a little bigger.  I am thrilled !! The hull weighs 28 pounds with the ballast and the displacement calcs said it should sink 1.5 inches into the water.  I added 14oz to the bow in the form of a bowl and water to make the hull level.  With everthing balanced the hull sank about 1 3/8 inches !! Not bad :D  I loaded the hull down with another 12 pounds to bring the hull 2 inches down into the water.  At that level the paddle sits just where it should in the water, one bucket will be almost all the way in the water and the leading and lagging buckets are partially in the water and the buckets leading and lagging those are dry.  From what I have read thats what I am to shoot for. 
So with a 2 inch draft the hull, as is, it can support 41 pounds !!!  Thats not light.  I dont know if the boat will be that weight when its made of wood and glass but at least I can predict fairly accurately what will happen and where the paddle will have to sit.  I also know right where the balance point of the hull is so I learned a lot.   The shots of the paddle in the water are at the 1 3/8 depth not the 2 inches I will shoot for on the final wood hull.

Lots of fun today
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on March 01, 2015, 05:12:37 AM
A little more mock-up progress.  I keep fiddling with the curve of the decks, I think its getting closer to what I like.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on March 01, 2015, 07:56:05 AM
Pete.......that mock-up is starting to show promise.....& plenty of viewing of the important bits....... :bravo...

In OZ...we would use the family bath tub for such displacement and inclination tests  :shhh.......

Dependent on the cleanliness or quality of the water you intend to steam on, you may need to make allowance for a make up water tank on board

As a ball park figure, the equivalent of the boiler volume is a useful volume....however being mindful that the same litre of volume is that same kilogram of displacement.... ::)

So every 30 minutes or so you dock the vessel to fill the gas tank & top up the make up water tank at the same time...........Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on March 02, 2015, 10:06:36 AM
Derek

Yep I am planning to have a clean supply of water on board for the boiler.  The ponds around me are no where close to clean enough.  I also have to capture the oil contaminated waste steam condensation to keep it out of the pond. 
I sure will have a lot of equipment in this hull.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on March 15, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Just a little progress.  A couple of details, just to think things out. 
Looks like I am going to add lights like the Disney boat has.  I had a small strip of LED lights left over from the under cabinet lighting I put in our kitchen just to test it out.   It should look good. 
I bought some thin plywood from the lumber yard, so the cutting of the real thing will start soon --- I hope. 

The last pic shows where most of my spare time is going.

Pete

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on April 04, 2015, 09:58:04 AM
Not much to show, but wood has been cut !!
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on April 30, 2015, 12:31:26 AM
I have made some progress, like I said figuring out where to stuff everything has been the time consuming part. I went with two water tanks made out of 2" pvc pipe sharing a common manifold from which the feed water pump will tap for clean water. Each tank has a vent that also serves as a place to refill. You can see the vents they are the 90 degree elbows on each side of the hull. Those elbows will not be glued, so I can easily remove them to service the water tanks. The condensation and cylinder drains go to another pvc tank, one under each engine. I know pvc isnt rated for steam temperatures, but this will be condensate and oil that has been through the engine and expanded and cooled some. The volume of waste water is also fairly low so I am hoping the pvc temps will stay below the melting point. If not then everything is accessable and replaceable so I will build something out of more expensive metal. Wont hurt to try. The Yellow hose is engine exhaust drain. The exhaust pipes will rise straight up from the engines to the top of the superstructure. My test running showed me that the low exhaust flow from the engines didnt have enough push to get condensing water straight up and out of the pipe without reving up the engines. In order to fix that problem I added a drain pipe to the exhaust pipe and that water will fall into the condensate tank using the yellow ( gotta find another color ) hose. Right now its latex but that is rated at a lower temp too, so I plan on finding some silicone hose the correct size. All that heat and vapor from the condensate tank will exit out each side of the hull just forward of the paddle. There is a picture of that pipe also. The capped 1/2 inch pipe just in front of the engine is the access point for sucking out the water and oil that will end up in the condensate tank.
More deck work to go, I have a bunch of trimming to do on what is there already. I think a test float with plastic like I did before will be in order at that point, just to make sure the paddle floats are going to fully submerge, and see how much freeboard I have to work with.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on April 30, 2015, 08:05:29 AM
Hi PD's........& all looking good Pete  :hammer

1. with respect to the condensate temperatures ....the following is taken from OZ Google......but American PVC would be about the same  :whistle ...remember if condensate is still at a temperature that appears as steam  :ranting......it will be hotter than 60 degrees C


Temperature limitations for PVC-U DWV pipe
 
......... They are more than capable of handling normal high and low temperature discharges in these applications. There are however, some applications in which the temperature limitations need to be assessed more thoroughly.

Elevated Temperatures

The recommended maximum continuous operational temperature for UPVC pipes is 60°C. This limitation refers to the complete pipe wall being at 60°C and would apply for continuous flow of a fluid at 60°C.


2. yes a displacement test [with the simulated boiler] would be a good idea  :shhh

3. is than a boiler hand pump shown in image 1532 below?...and can it be handle operated or linkage rod driven from an engine eccentric?

Keep up the good work........Derek  :beer
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 03, 2015, 11:54:10 PM
Hi Derek,

I am gonna try the pvc and see what happens.  That quote you sent actually encouraged me to think it might work, because it indicates that the 60 degrees C limit is when the entire interior wall is exposed to those temps.  Mine will just be small dribbles.  Hopefully the mass of the pipe will help keep the pipe from distorting.  Wont hurt to try.

As to the pump, yep its a dual purpose pump.  There are two pistons inside it one is connected to the hand lever, the other to an eccentric on the paddle shaft.  The two pistons share the intake and output check valves.  I have an adjustable pivot point on the eccentric pushrod that allows me to adjust the stroke of the engine driven side of the pump to get the pump output close to the water consumption. It works pretty good but I may need to add a second o-ring to keep the piston from rubbing the sides of the bore.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 07, 2015, 01:00:54 AM
Well the test float didn’t go well.  It didn’t sink, but it already sits at the planned water level, and there is a lot of structure to go let alone more mechanical and radio gear etc.  The results made for a bad day.  My solution is going to have to be to increase the length of the hull.  I don’t want to go thru the work of adding depth, so length should be easier and improve the look of the hull. It was a little stubby looking.  I will have to split the hull into 2 sections for transporting.  I don’t want to have to use my truck bed and a hoist to get this boat to the pond.  I will bring the length from 52" to 64" which will make 2 32" sections.  The boiler, feed water and fuel supply will be in the fwd section and the engines and their supporting gear in the aft. The radio gear will be split up. That will move the boiler forward which should help the balance of the hull and hopefully eliminate 5 pounds of useless ballast that I have to put in the current hull's bow.  I will have to make a steam connection and a few electrical disconnects to split the two sections.  I hope the superstructure can remain one piece

This boat design thing is not easy.  I guess this is where planning ahead would have been helpful !! ;D

Pictures to follow soon

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on May 07, 2015, 02:27:01 PM
Increasing the beam will help and keep her looking balanced Pete.
She'll look fine in the end.
Damien.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 09, 2015, 07:31:06 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Damien !

Here are a few pics as promised

The hull is sitting on my model airplane wing jigs to keep everything flat.  It will be two independent hulls that will join to float the main reason for that it for transportation.  I haven't quite figured out how I will secure them to each other.  I don't want fasteners below the waterline.  Maybe some kind of clamping system ?


Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on May 09, 2015, 09:14:18 AM
 :terrific :bravo :bravo
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on May 09, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
The increased lenght of the hull will not only solve the problem with the draught, also the appearance is much better.

May be interesting, I will add pictures of my steam driven sternwheelers, the "Zambesi" (Zulu) and the Congo steamer "Ville des Bruges".

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on May 09, 2015, 08:08:45 PM
Evening Hank and Pete  :gathering ....

I again have reservations of an increase in vessel length over an increase in draft  :hammer.......

However if you need more deck ballast just call

These are 1:20 scale boiler feed logs cut on a 1:20 scale day in the Australian hardwood forests just west of 1:20 of the western side of the Murray river... :sorry

Derek :beer
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: chewbacca on May 09, 2015, 08:40:53 PM
bonjour
Very beautiful boat ,  :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 10, 2015, 06:50:05 AM
Wow all those boats look fantastic ! 

Thomas - You are right the length did make the boat look better ( I didn't expect that when I started cutting )
                Do you have more pictures of your engines ? I would love to see more detail !!

Derek - since I really know nothing about boat design, why would an increase in draft be preferable to an increase in length ?  I was under the impression that I wanted to keep the bottom of the paddle close to the bottom of the hull.  If I increased the draft the paddle would be a good bit higher than the bottom of the boat.   I am already committed to the latter, but I would like to learn.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on May 10, 2015, 08:50:26 PM
Hi Pete,

here some detail pictures of "Ville des Bruges" lenght 142 cm, and "Zambezi" (Zulu plan) lenght 133 cm. Scale of both models is 1 : 24.

For "Zambezi" I used the simple oscillating engine of the "Mark Twain" Kit in the 1990ties, bore is 12 mm, stroke 60mm.
For "Ville des Bruges" a slightly modified Regner 12/36 was the right choice.

Your engine seems very interesting, it looks like the valve geared engines of the American riverboats, isn`t it?

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on May 11, 2015, 07:15:52 AM
Congratulation......both magnificent steam builds Thomas........

1. do you experience a high condensate level due to the HP line length?
2. so with the Zambezi at 60 mm stroke means the eccentric on the paddle wheel is 30 mm...so what range of paddle shaft rpm can you achieve?
3. with such a stroke and being an oscilator, how are the valve faces held steam tight considering the axis point is approx. 30 mm away?

I was not aware that Regner manufactured cylinder sets of 36 stroke.........would love to see a video of the engines running.... Derek  :beer

PS...just checked the Regner catalogue.......all I find is 12 x 17 or 20...and 14 x 17 or 20 cylinder & rod sets?
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 11, 2015, 10:04:57 AM
Thanks Thomas !
Those engines look great.  All the details of you boats are really nice right down to the tools !!!!
I too would love to see a video the engines running.
I really doubt I will get even close to the scale look you have achieved
Thanks again for sharing those its inspiring
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on May 11, 2015, 11:06:48 AM
Pete......just back on the draft issue.......one basic point to remember is the need for approx. 3 blades to be immersed at all times  :hammer...it would be worth marking this new imaginary water line on the hull to give you an idea of what you are chasing.....[open the image below]

I do see your dilemma with the existing paddle axis height ....so the additional mid ship section will be pretty easy to calculate the additional buoyancy it will provide

Another concept to consider is that the boiler is always approx. 75% full....and the steam generated is from the water in the makeup water tank ...so if you were to position the makeup water tank midships [of balance], so as this water is consumed the vessel will rise with a fair degree of uniformity between the bow & the stern

On a darker note...we remember what happened when the American Congress recommended building two rocket section in two different locations......& the $20 o-ring that failed......... :sorry

I would have grave reservation  :c002 in exposing all of those individual steam engine assembly components in any form of demountable hull....... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on May 11, 2015, 04:23:38 PM
Hi Derek,

the oscillating engine of "Zambezi" has a very long piston rod (nearly 280 mm, so that the angel of the cylinders are not wide.
In fact there are no great problems of tightness of steam, except the normal leakings of oscillating engines in general.
Steam consumption is very high with this engine und the power is less, compared with the Regner 12/36 engine.

The power of "Zambezi" is almost sufficient, rpm are about 60 to 70 in water at a pressure of 3 bar.

The Regner 12/36 must be in program for about 30 years, this long stroke engine is still in production.
The power is more than the oscillating engine and steam consumptin is less.

May be, it´s not well known, Mr. Regner died in Juli 2013, but the family will lead the factory in further times.

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on May 11, 2015, 05:16:28 PM
Thank you Thomas for the explanations......

I had previously read that the founder Mr Regner senior [a dedicated steam engineer] had retired and left the Company to his children...... :shhh

Certainly no example of a 12 x 36 stroke engine or components appear in their current catalogue.........the head office of Regner ignored my e-mail requests ....however in the end, they referred my enquiry to an American model steam train distributor  :a102....when clearly I am in Australia....

Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 15, 2015, 10:14:37 AM
Derek,
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk all that metal work to a seal of any kind.  I built the two sections as independent hulls.  They will be clamped together in a way that wont compromise the hull integrity.  The view of the seam will be minimal. Then the superstructure will be one piece placed on the top after the boiler and engines are heated up and running.  It will be built of mostly balsa to keep the weight down low.  See if these pictures will help get my point across.

Thanks for the "waterline" picture.  That helps me a lot.  I wasnt sure what 3 paddles in the water looked like exactly.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 29, 2015, 09:51:00 AM
Thanks !

I have been slowly working on the boat when time allows.
The rudders are all hooked up and working.  I have brass tubes that act as bearings to hold the solid brass rudder shafts.  the two forward rudder tubes are one piece from under the hull to the top of the lowest deck to keep water from creeping up the shafts and sinking the boat.  I cross drilled and tapped the shafts for a 4-40 bolt that helps transfer the torque of the shaft to the wood.  I milled out the rudders to fit the shaft and the bolt and then encased everything in epoxy.  I hope that makes sense.  I went with model aircraft hardware for the linkage and just ran a die on the ends of the interconnecting brass rods.  I thought about milling out all that hardware out of aluminum, but this was quicker, and lighter and works great.  I am running up against a weight limit so every little bit helps. 

Here is a link to the video of them running by radio control.
http://youtu.be/WxlXVk7X_ds

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on May 29, 2015, 02:22:31 PM
Hi PD's ...& well done Pete ...all looks snappy in that video but :shhh ........ maybe too snappy  :nono

We haven't touched on scale to any real meaning here yet......but it is an important aspect of linear motion and the scale effect it has
Scale linear movement is the real value divided by the square root of the scale

So if your paddle wheeler was 1:48 scale, a function requiring 30 seconds in real time  is...... 30 divided by 6.93  = 4.3 seconds in scale time

I used this as an example of the real stern wheeler swinging the rudder set would take say 30 seconds from hard a port to hard a stdb

Going back to your scale vessel video you are able to swing the rudder in lightning speed of approx. 1.5 seconds :c002

So the argument can be.......'I have a digital transmitter......I will be careful [and slow]'  :sorry......when the vessel is 20 foot out on the water we loose all physical sénce of proportionality  :picknose

There is a solution  :goodnews...ACTion electronics from the UK manufacture a range on model kit electronic GIZMOS....one is a P96  ....it allows the individual adjustment [extension or reduction] of individual end points of the servo and allows for servo speed slow down 

I am so impressed with these I have 3 x for my build & all to be set at approx. 3 to 4 seconds :whistle

1 x for the steam regulator [zero to full +]
1 x for the Stephenson reversing gear [full position in either direction ahead to reverse]
1 x for the rudder [hard to port to hard to stdb]

A number of colleagues  :gathering have suggested this intentional speed slow down is a danger to safety :a102......I consider it as an aid to mechanical safety of components  :hammer

PS....

1. The Component Shop people in the UK are great to deal with....postage to OZ is never a problem ....would be the same to USA
2. I have financial interest in ACTion electronics nor Component shop.......just a very happy customer

Let me know what you think....................... Derek  :beer


Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on June 02, 2015, 06:07:01 AM
Hey Derek,

You have a great point, the rudders do move really fast.
I am going to look into getting a servo slowdown device.  I will try to get something similar here in the US just for the ease of shipping and possible returns.   I guess it also matters how much money it will cost me.  This boat building adventure is costing a lot more than I expected. I probably have 50 bucks in rod ends alone !

I dont see a safety problem, I wont be going fast at all, should have plenty of time to steer my course.

Next up is going to be the rest of the radio gear.  I have to rig up control of the throttles, cylinder drains, whistle valve and an emergency gas shutoff.  ( I dont even have a valve built for the gas yet.)

After all that I will begin waterproofing the paddle and hull, then some time with water trials on the bare hull.

Pete

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on June 23, 2015, 09:01:03 AM
Here is an update to the boat,

I did another float test to see how much weight the hull can carry when its at the depth I want. It looks like I have 24lbs to play with for the rest of the boat build. It was loaded with everything it will take to run so the rest will be fiberglass paint and all the superstructure /decorations. The shot of the cans and weights was the 'cargo' I was able to load it up with.
The float test showed me I will have 5/8 inch of free board, and after talking with Mike Jones ( Hookpilot on rcgroups ) it was decided to add a bit of permanent structure to the hull in the form of a 1/2 inch lip to the opening of the hull to give me more breathing room for a rouge wave from a duck or something. ( it wont take much )

I started on the upper decks. they will be one piece that will be easily removed for access to the engines and boiler. Mostly balsa with pine and spruce here and there. the repetition is the tough part of this stage. The second deck railing will be hard because the railing detail is intricate.  A friend suggested printing the pattern on a waterproof sticker material and just get the illusion for all those balusters. To buy them would be a lot of money. Making them near impossible.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on June 27, 2015, 02:25:05 AM
Well I have found a new definition of tedious !

I got the roof of the first level sheeting on. It still needs sanding and something to align the next level, but I got started on the posts for level 2.  48 of them are needed ( why did I go semi scale ? ) I turned them on my metal lathe using a piece of HSS that I cut the post profile into.  I went with one plunge into the wood with the cutter.  I wanted to do it that way in order to get the spindles all the same.  It worked out pretty well, I had to shave down the rings on the backside of the part as the cutter cut the profile on the front.  I found that if I just let the HSS do it all the rings were so fragile that they broke off randomly.  They arent perfect, but they are close enough.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on June 27, 2015, 09:51:42 AM
Coming along nicely Pete. :)
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on June 27, 2015, 12:08:38 PM
Morning Pete........as you say....."The float test showed me I will have 5/8 inch of free board".....how does relate in scale to the full sized vessel?

Waves are complex to analyse in what effect they have on hull behaviour which is also relative to the hull shaping....so depending on the waterway you choose to steam your model...you may well find that a wave four times the height of the vessel freeboard only raised the complete hull and your freeboard is maintained....or not really compromised :picknose

Sorry that may sound silly :a102.......but you progress is good as is using a metal lathe for woodwork  :clap

Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Mike on June 27, 2015, 04:46:34 PM


  Hi.
  I like the idea of turning the spindles on the lathe, looks good.
  The boat is coming along very well, good photo's as well.

     Mike.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on June 28, 2015, 11:37:42 AM
Hey Derek !
As far as scale goes, I think the 5/8 dimension works out to be a little over 15 inches ( 38.1 cm to the rest of the world )  I haven't measured the full scale boat free board but the images I have seem to indicate I am not that far off.  The only thing silly about your post is that guy pickin his nose !   :laugh: :laugh:

I hadn't thought about the size of a wave other than just its vertical height.  You are right, length and width will also effect the hull.  I guess I will just have to float it in a calm body of water and then evaluate from there what the hull can handle.  The lake I plan to use for the first trials is not small.  It has the potential for waves that I think could swamp my model.   I am planning on using that particular place because it isnt busy with people or full size boats. There is a small concrete boat ramp that I can use to launch from and be able to walk into the water with it while maintaining my feet on a solid surface.  I can also bring my kayak for a rescue if needed.

Mike,

Thanks for the kind words,  the lathe made relatively short work of the spindles ( it still was many hours )  They came out pretty good, I think my angles on the cutter weren't quite right for wood but it came out good enough.  I'll keep the photos coming.  I wanted to get done by January of next year for a model show in Pennsylvania but at the rate I am progressing that might not be possible.  I had no idea there was so much work involved in a boat !! :P
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on July 06, 2015, 08:01:06 AM
More progress.  I have started on the second deck.  There are a lot of parts to make for the rails and no two are exactly alike.  Lots and lots of cutting and sanding.  The other challenge is keeping it all straight.  I ended up making a couple of jigs to keep the upper posts lined up with the lower deck posts. 
Here are a few pictures.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on July 06, 2015, 08:18:07 AM
Coming along nicely Pete. :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on July 12, 2015, 06:49:24 AM
Thanks !

I finally have the railing done.  It took less time than I expected but it was still hard to keep going.  I soaked a piece of balsa in hot water and wrapped it around a paint can till it dried to get the curved pieces for the front corners.  I have begun sheeting the middle section to get ready to start the third and final level.  The posts for that level have to be turned too, but in a different pattern.  I also tested out how well printing the balusters will look.  I took a photo of the full scale balusters and then imported that image into Photoshop.  After a little cleanup of the image I scaled it down to 2 inches in width.  I made up a sheet with several rail sections and printed that as a test.  I plan on using a waterproof printable sticker material in the final version.  It looks like that will work fine.  I dont have any way to cut those kind of details into the wood so this is the best I can do.  It sure would be neat to have a cnc mill !  Really I dont think anything but a cnc laser cutter could reproduce those cuts at that tiny size.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on July 12, 2015, 12:01:36 PM
Printed on clear decal material sprayed with clear to seal the ink works well Pete. and could be put on clear perspex between the turned posts food for thoughts mate.

Damien.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on July 13, 2015, 10:10:20 AM
Damien
Thats a great idea, but its a little too late.  I cant see myself cutting out all that wood and redoing it.  I had a hard enough time doing all 80 something pieces the first time !  :P  Really though that would have been a great way to do it!

I will look for a good clear spray to waterproof the setup I will use.  The whole boat is mainly white so the sticker should blend well

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on July 13, 2015, 11:09:14 AM
The paint I use on decals is Auto Acrylic clear, air brushed or if not fussy on thickness of cover from a spray can.

Damien.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on July 23, 2015, 11:23:13 AM
I guess I should have paid more attention to the details of the boat I wanted to pattern my model after during the selection process !  The second deck has some 48 posts and on each post are two curved decorations, kind of a gingerbread detail.   Thats 96 or so of those !!! I should have picked a work boat, not near as much fluf and repetition.  :)  Anyway those are done and now its on to level three.  Less posts but larger turnings on these.  I tried to make a cutter like I did before, but this time it didnt work at all.  One picture shows the results.  So after a bit of thinking I modified the cutter to just cut the 7 groves and then I used my drum sander on a dremel while the part was on the lathe.  I just made the tapers freehand, they came out fairly close to one another.  Each post took about 4-5 minutes to turn.  There are just 16 of those.

Sorry these are all cell phone pics so they a lacking in quality a bit

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on July 23, 2015, 12:26:17 PM
Hi PD's.......& well Pete...you efforts are proving worthwhile.....:trophy

I think the selection in the grade of timber is the secret you that you have accomplished ...closer grain, denser timbers certainly are easier to machine and with good final results

You have followed wood turning principals from 150 years ago  :clap...and they didn't have CNC machining centres then......nor need them to achieve repetition produced work

Looking forward to seeing more images as you progress...... :beer...Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on August 09, 2015, 11:53:52 AM
More progress for my fellow boat builders,
The third deck has been started along with more work on the railings.  I think the rails are going to be the hardest part of this build.  I am counting the engines in that statement.  Each and every post is unique due to the curves for the decks.  In order to keep the post vertical the bottom of each post has to be sanded to match the point where it will live. The full size boat has metal hardware cloth  like material between posts on the railing on the front of the bottom deck and the entire perimeter of the third level.  Duplicating that detail is proving challenging too.  I ended up having to back up and disassemble the railing I had completed on the bow and then cut slots in the posts vertically to make a way for the posts to hold the fiberglass window screen.  It ended up working but it took way more time than it should have.  I have a similar problem with the upper deck.  I have already glued up most of the railing and now I have to secure the screen somehow to the already built posts.  The bow was not as hard to rework because there isnt as much of it and the posts are thicker allowing me to use my oscillating multi-tool with a narrow plunging blade.  It is a fairly violent tool so the thinner post may not hold up to the beating that tool generates.  I'll figure out something, hopefully not involving backing up.  Planing ahead sure would be helpful  :)  I can see the appeal of kits! I still hope to have this done by January for the Cabin Fever model show in York Pennsylvania. 

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on August 09, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
Absolutely wonderful attention to detail. Pete. well done  :bravo :clap :bravo :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on August 21, 2015, 06:19:48 AM
Thanks Damien !
I am close to being done with the railing !!  All that is left is bracing for  the top level posts to duplicate the full size setup.  I cant do that quiet yet because the deck will have to be permanently glued down to the second level for those tiny braces to added.  I am keeping the levels separate until the painting is done.  There is no way to reach between decks to paint if they are all bonded together.
Next up is the bridge.  It is a nice change of pace.  Not to much to tell about it, it will be hollow to allow for the boiler chimney to pass thru it.  I don't know if I am going to put any detail in the wheel house or not.  I originally just wanted a hull to run the steam engine on the water with.  This has gotten a bit out of hand and is turning into a whole boat !!:)
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 02, 2015, 09:15:25 AM
Another update,
I have the bridge framed up and covered.  I added the visible part of the ships wheel for effect and put Mickey in charge.  Now I am working on the bracing that runs the length of the boat.  I have mocked up one side, and now I need to figure out how to make it removable for transport and maintenance.  The two big braces that run down thru the decks go all the way to the hull on the full scale boat, but I cat do that due to the steam plant and engines.  Since the running gear is not even close to scale I am leaving the lowest level un-decorated.  I am not sure yet if I am going to permanently join the upper decks together or leave them as independent floors.  I have to leave them separate at least until I paint. I also picked up a piece of plumbing to make the smoke stack.  It will need dressing up but it should work an it not that heavy.  I will run the 3/4" copper exhaust pipe up into this 1 1/2" steel sink drain tail piece.  I may leave the bottom of the bigger pipe open and center the 3/4" pipe into it and let it draft cooler air from the bottom opening just to keep the heat down some on the touchable stack.  Think that will work ?
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 02, 2015, 10:22:52 AM
WOW   :no1b :clap :clap :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Spankbucket on September 02, 2015, 07:02:47 PM
The term 'Mickey Mouse' is usually derogatory.....

In this case it's quite the reverse.....what a fantastic job!!!!
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 03, 2015, 05:47:52 AM
Thanks guys !!
My wife found the characters that will ride the boat.  They are perfect, the are wearing little safari outfits and are just the right size.

Next on the to-do list is fitting the steam engines and supporting equipment into the new floors.  Hopefully it wont be too much to cut away for clearance.  I had an attenuator from John Hemmens that I bought for this project, but it didnt work at all.  I sent it back for him to fix but now it has been 6 months and I still dont have a valve to plumb into the system.   May have to scrap the idea of the boiler being under some degree of automatic control.

After that I think I will fiberglass the belly.

I have a bunch of sanding to do.  I have just built the boat with just enough finishing work to be able to keep building.  Painting will require lots of quality time with my sanding block.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 04, 2015, 10:47:32 AM
Ok I made a list of what to do and didn't follow it, but work on the smoke stack went well. I used a 1.5 inch brass tail piece I found at Home Depot. Its chromed on the outside so I will have to rough that surface up for paint. I made the fatter parts of the pipe out of oak. I dont have brass tube that size so this is what I came up with. I glued several layers of board together and then turned them on my lathe to get the right look. The flared part of the stack was done with my mill and a ziz wheel. I marked off 30 degree increments and then rotated the tube and made a cut. The tapers were just eyeballed and shaped with a sanding disk. I bent the points around a dowel to get a good radius. I think it came out pretty good !
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 04, 2015, 11:27:29 AM
Outstanding :clap :clap  :bravo :bravo
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 18, 2015, 10:25:04 AM
I have the upper decks trimmed out around the steam plant and engines.  There will have to be some reinforcement done to the cutouts I had to make up for the lost strength. 

I ran the propane line to the burners and added a remote control shutoff valve to the feed line that will allow me to remotely kill the propane if problems show up on the water.

I built a cover for the opening in the deck where the propane supply tank sits.  I cut slots in the vertical walls that make up the cover to allow for more air circulation in the bow in case there is a leak in the gas supply lines.  I might add a tiny computer fan to push even more fresh air around.

I lined up the 3/4 copper exhaust pipe from the boiler to the smoke stack ( that's what I am trying to show in the picture looking down the stack.  The smallest shiny circle is the 3/4" pipe, and the other circles are just reflections.

I started work on the mast and crane setup that is on the bow.  I used my laser level to get the upper and lower masts lined up straight to each other.  I still need something for small ropes and block and tackle to finish that up.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 18, 2015, 10:35:31 AM
A real masterpiece Pete.  :bravo :bravo :bravo
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on September 18, 2015, 11:37:10 AM
Morning Pete.....when you get time, could you please tell us more about the gas shut off valve & the means of actuating it...

Is it a 90 degree steam valve?
How do you achieve positive shut off?
Are you using a spring controlled servo saver?

With respect to your question on smoke from the stack, oil spray apart from being messy, has the potential to leave a carbon build up on the cross tubes...& this in time becomes an insulator & retards heat transfer from the gas flame

Having said this, all of our club members with 5" gauge steam engines use a coal dust type compressed material termed as char....it also has a small % of clay dust in the mix as a binder.....and we see the cross tubes in the fire box caked with a soot build up however this does not appear to have any serious consequences with heating

So, I have a collection of 1:20 scale timber splits representing boiler feed which is stored on deck, however also have a collection of non split logs which will trial poking 1 or 2 down the chimney ...these will lodge on the cross tubes in the exhaust gas path & hopefully will smoke until they are consumed as or to ash....the logs will actually sit below the height of the condenser steam outlet which is higher up in the chimney stack.....my relief valve discharge tube is also external to the chimney ....so there is little chance if any of the log being subjected to wet soggy steam........

I hope to do a trial steam up this weekend, in preparation for one of our Club boiler inspectors to recertify my boiler in accordance with the Australian Model Boiler code.... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 24, 2015, 12:08:39 AM
 I havent had a chance to get a few pictures to show what I did to give you guys a good reply.  But I just used a DuBro smoke shutoff valve.
http://shop.dubro.com/p/super-smoker-valve-qty-pkg-1
The propane feed line to the burner is silicon fuel tubing from the regulator to the burner adjusting valves.  I just put the dubro valve inline and it just pinches the tubing and stops the flow of gas with little effort.  I am going to setup the travel limits of the servo to match the valve. 
My son asked ' what happens if you have a leak or break before the valve ' good question, anybody have any experience with gas leaks and or fires and the subsequent loss of the boat ?  How do I add a level of safety to this potential disaster ?
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on September 24, 2015, 07:11:17 AM
Hi Pete

I have gone down the path of our European colleagues and used soft sealing [O-rings] for my gas connections on brass tubing

Gas regulations seem to vary greatly :gathering...I remember using one of those stainless steel woven reinforced over nylon tube hoses with crimped fittings on my gas BBQ....& found the hose fitting leaking at the crimp   :ranting

Since then...we seem to be able to purchase gas flash back arresters for bottled gas just like the full scale arresters used with oxy-acet gear

I have experienced Stauff Minimess Test hoses on hydraulic fluid systems from -1 Bar to +320 Bar with total integrity and ZERO decay, however using the same Test hoses on nitrogen accumulators provides totally unacceptable results due to the permeability of gas or gas leakage at the crimped fittings ...

You have the Stauff Corporation in Walderick [USA] pen an e-mail to them enquiring about their recommendations on Stauff 1215 or 1620 Test hoses for use with gas  :nono.....the Stauff publications are misleading...as the actual Test Fittings themselves are approved for gas application's, however the hoses themselves are not capable of maintaining that constant gas pressure without de-pressurisation decay :darn 

Remember high school or early university science?....permeability of gas?........ :oops

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDUQFjADahUKEwiYmdTNjY7IAhWLFpQKHSnzBPE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fencyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com%2FGas%2BPermeability&usg=AFQjCNHl-v415uGuu5Ae-mlIwS8Lby4LHw

Look at the value for Nylon…..P = 0.7 x 108 cm2/second to atmosphere =  :sobbing

[I question if that table is correct...should it not be 10-8 ......?]

Accordingly I would be most reluctant in using any synthetic hose with crimped fittings on gas..... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 26, 2015, 05:03:08 AM
Derek,

Thanks for the info that gave me more to think about and more work to do.   :P

The silicon tubing is going to have to stay because it solves a major problem of connecting the tank to the burners.  The supply is located in a very tight space and rigid lines wont work.  Because of your cautions I will shroud the feed line in a second flexable tube.  I will have to look around at whats availiable locally, mabey fuel line from the auto parts store....Whatever I use will be sealed at each end of the supply line and then have a vent tied into the shroud that will vent overboard away from the burners.  I may have the vent line go over the railing on the lowest deck and the end below the water line.  That way if it begins to leak I should see bubbles at the vent outlet.
 
The aircraft that I work on have similiar setups for the fuel lines that run through the fuselage.  If there is a leak in the supply line the shroud directs it to a drain line that runs to a mast on the belly.  That keeps the fuel out of the plane and makes it easy to discover a leak.

I dont know if this project will ever get done !

Does anyone know much about bilge pumps ??

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 26, 2015, 09:28:59 AM
At a guess a windscreen washer pump activated by lever switch  with a cork float on the end of the lever would work ok.

Damien.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 26, 2015, 09:41:01 AM
Damien, that's a good idea, but I have been staring at my hull for awhile and it seems the water level inside the hull would have to get pretty deep before I could start pumping.  Since the hull is dead flat I have no place to setup a sump for the pump. There are also several bulkheads that divide up the bottom, water could end up in any one of them. Might have to skip that idea and just float on very calm days only.

I had to make a new valve for the control of the whistle.  The original was not good enough.  Getting it to shutoff all the way was hard and it didnt have much control over the amount of steam it let by.  This valve is exactly like the two throttle valves I made for the engine.  It works great with no leakage and good control.  I mounted the whistles in the only place they fit.  The exhaust of the whistles will soak down the first deck, but there is plenty of airflow inside the boat and it wont be blown too many times, because it eats lots and lots of steam.

Here is a link to the test of the valve https://youtu.be/eDe0KgAoWwI

I also got around to cladding the boiler.  There are two layers of ceramic insulation under the wood.  It will be secured with stainless wire. 

I also added another layer of metal under the boiler.  It has a air gap above and below it just to add more protection to the hull.

No pictures of the gas shutoff for now since a design change is in the works

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 26, 2015, 11:07:05 AM
If you're worried about water ingress perhaps filling unused spaces with expandable foam?
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 27, 2015, 06:16:10 AM
well since this is my first boat maybe I should ask, does a lot of water get in a scale boat very often ?  Does sinking happen much ?  I have flow model airplanes for a long time and crashing is pretty much a guarantee at one point or another.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 27, 2015, 10:04:33 AM
While far from an expert on this matter my observation is the difference between Paddle boats and paddle ships greatly influences the free board of the vessels, on a river boat the deck is close to the water (low free board) due to relatively stable water surface where as a paddle ship has considerable free board so it can handle rough seas.

Anyone who disagrees feel free to pick my ideas to bits.

Damien.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on September 27, 2015, 03:31:24 PM
Pete....to consider a worst case scenario of wave height that an old OZ paddler would have been exposed to is on Lake Alexandrina near the Murray mouth in South Australia

The following WEB link suggests wave heights of 5 ft......however the shallowness of water experience dictates that the pitch between wave crests would be relatively short....& hence rough & choppy for any vessel plying the Lake

So 5 ft is 60 inches multiplied by the scale of 1:20 equates to scale wave height of 3" and I am guessing at a crest to crest pitch of 5 ft

So if the scale paddler is the same 5 ft in length, a vessel even with a relatively low freeboard will tend to ride the swell adequately [I am sure we touched on this subject briefly early on in the thread]

So from your build, the obvious areas for concern would be around the pair of horizontal Pitman arms attached to the stern wheel, and where they exit the above deck superstructure

1. So from this we could conclude that it is possible that a small amount of splashed water could enter the hull
2. If this were the case, every internal surface of the hull and superstructure should be adequately painted, varnished or epoxied with sufficient completeness to withstand an ingress of water

My intended build @ 1:20 scale will only have ~~ 2" of freeboard which represents 3' 4" of the actual vessel

Being a river paddler, I would never expect to sail in rough weather beyond the scale scenario above. Further I do not propose to install any form of bilge pump

The only thing that I have done here is to install a 6" wide x 2" long foam sponge in the oil drip tray under the engine, however this is for oil or condensation, and not intended to cope with any water ingress............ Derek




http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwj4za2ytpbIAhUh3KYKHbyPDkY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ace.net.au%2Fschooner%2Fmlakes.htm&usg=AFQjCNFXBg_XbUNrZPuh76n47H_421h2ag&bvm=bv.103388427,d.dGY
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 28, 2015, 11:06:56 PM
Thanks for the replies, it seems like if I just excercise patience and wait for calm waters, then sinking due to water splashing in should not be a concern. I am going to scrap the added weight and complexity of bilge pumps

Derek, you are right, the pitman arms, cam pushrods, and rudder linkage holes in the aft bulkhead will have to be addressed to eliminate water getting in.  There is a beautiful model sternwheeler being built by a guy in washington state here - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1497645. He is in the process of testing his model.  Those tests have shown that the paddle kicks up a lot of water in reverse and quickly puts a lot of water in the hull thru those openings.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 30, 2015, 09:44:53 AM


I have been working on little stuff lately.  Its really nice to only make one or two of something instead of 100's of the same thing like the railing was.

I am going to have a working fixed flood light on the mast/crane rig and a spot light on the top of the bridge so I went work on those.  I cut up a flashlight for the led and lens for the wood boxed flood light.  I used the reflector and led end part of another light for the spot light.  I turned down the spot light to remove the knurling and made a thread on plug to cover the opening left by the rest of the flashlight.  I will make a bracket to support the spot light and then mount it on the roof of the bridge.  Both lights will be run on 3v dc.  They originally used 4.5vdc but that was way too bright.  I dont want to be blinded by the boat.

I worked out a way to quickly disconnect the steam exhaust lines for the two engines to allow removal of the super structure.  I used silicon tubing and a piece of brass tube that fits inside another tube.

I ran steel cable for the bracing that runs from the paddle to the bow over the superstructure.  I used model airplane control line cable and eyelets.  One end slips over a 4-40 bolt at the paddle end and the other hooks a spring from a clothes pin to keep it under tension.  I figure with temperature and humidity changes I wouldn't be able to get the length perfect all the time.  I don't want saggy cables.  Those also have to be quickly removed to pull the superstructure.

Last on the built list is the crane.  It isn't functional but it adds a lot to the look of the boat.  It also has to be easily removed for access to the boiler and engines.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 06, 2015, 11:13:25 PM
I have started designing an electric recovery option for my boat.  The pond that I have access to cannot have a kayak on it and casting a tennis ball from a fishing pole seems like a great way to knock holes in the boat I would be trying to save.  I don’t want to build another boat to keep on standby, so adding an electric motor and prop to the hull seems like the best option.  During the testing of my engines things went well, but a couple of times the system stopped.  I have corrected the problems but since I make my living fixing reliable machines that occasionally fail I am paranoid about this boat getting stranded in the water due to a mechanical issue.  The water I will run in is free from weeds so getting hung up on something is not that likely. To add to the recovery problem, the soil here is clay and the bottom of the pond is several feet thick of sticky gooey mud.  I made the mistake of stepping into it one time teaching my dog to play in the water and I just about lost my shoes and had a miserable time getting out of the water.
All that said I don’t want a prop hanging out of the nice smooth bottom so a jet drive type setup is in the works.  I found a pvc pipe for kitchen sinks that makes a nice 45 degree bend at the end.  The plan is to put that in the hull and have it exit at the back of the boat where the bottom slopes up to meet the back bulkhead.  I found a three blade plastic prop that just needed a little turning down to fit in the pipe.  I plan on using a 'speed 400' type motor to drive the prop. I don’t know if it will be just an on/off control or add a speed control.  The addition of a speed control would have the added benefit of a BEC to power the rest of the radio gear on the same battery that will power the lights eliminating a second receiver battery.
since this is for emergency only operations I don’t plan on cooling the motor and use just plain bearings for the stuffing tube.
Any thoughts or experience with something like this ?
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: pete on October 07, 2015, 02:07:21 AM
That is one very impressive model. I think your idea of a water jet for emergencies is good. I have a 1/48 scale side paddler which, in addition to a normal paddle drive, has a commercially made water jet fitted. I split the outlets such that it pumps water out just aft of the paddles, but still under the sponsons. It has proved extremely useful not only for emergency recovery but for avoiding impending collisions or dealing with inclement conditions.  Downsides? - on full chat the scale speed is around 70 knots!!
Regards,
Pete.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 07, 2015, 04:11:39 AM
Thanks Pete !
Thats great to hear that it has been done before and proved worth the trouble. 
With that much go power that means you have a paddler that can get on plane  ;D
 Do you have the jet on a speed control or is it just on or off ?
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: pete on October 07, 2015, 07:11:14 PM
It is fitted with a speed controller, - a couple of pics of the engine room.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 08, 2015, 01:27:14 AM
WOW Pete ! That is a clean install for your running gear.  I like the nicely routed and tied wiring job !!! The exhaust ducting for the pump is very stealthy too.
Thanks for the pictures thats worth a few thousand words.
I am going to install that electric backup for sure now.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 10, 2015, 01:11:47 AM
Here is another progress report.

I mounted the two lights I made.

I changed the way the two hull halves join together.  My original setup was basically two wood clamps that just pinched the two bulkheads on each hull half together.  Well it became obvious that it wouldn't be strong enough once the running gear was put in.  There was a lot of flexing between the two hulls.  So after much thought I took the advise of a fellow modeler and added two 5/8 inch strips to the bottom of the hull and used them to create point to pin the bottom of the hulls together, and then I added a similar pinning point to the upper half of the hulls.  That made 4 points to hold the two together with solid brass pins that slip into brass bushings in the wood.  The result was a very stiff hull, much better.
An added benefit should be to make this flat bottom hull handle better in the water ( or so I have been told, I have no experience )

Last but not least was the addition of the electric recovery option in the form of a jet drive.  I hated cutting into the bottom of the boat and the openings took a long time to cut because their shapes are very tricky.  The shaft runs in a brass tube and uses another smaller tube as the drive shaft.  I soldered on the threaded portion of an M4 bolt to one end and screwed the plastic prop on that.  I just used a piece of silicon fuel tube to couple the motor to the shaft.  The motor and speed control is from an airplane that is long gone.  The motor will be held down with safety wire holding it to a couple of foam pads to lower the noise levels.  I tested the pump in my sink in a temporary wood box and it pumps plenty of water.

Now I am down to sanding this whole boat down to its final finish.

Next up glassing the belly.  After that a float test will be in order, the boat will be at close to its final weight ( minus paint ) so I can see how its going to sit in the water.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on October 10, 2015, 10:39:15 AM
I like it!!!  :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: steamboatmodel on October 14, 2015, 12:42:55 AM
Looking at the Jet drive photos it looks like the prop. will rub on the housing. I would also put some capacitors on the motor.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 16, 2015, 08:06:30 AM
Gerald
The prop is close but there is a tiny bit of clearance, the picture doesn't look like it does in real life.   
What would capacitors do for the motor,  I just removed the setup as it was built on the plane it use to power years ago.
I am most positively not an expert on electric motors so I am willing to learn.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on October 16, 2015, 01:41:34 PM
Capacitors reduce motor brushes sparking causing radio interference If you're using 2.4gig equipment they're not necessary.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 17, 2015, 01:17:38 PM
Ok thanks for the info, and looks like i'll leave it as is since I am using a 2.4 radio

I am in the process of glassing the belly of the hull.....what a pain !
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 19, 2015, 11:30:09 AM
Progress pictures for everyone. 
I glassed the bottom of the hulls with one layer of very thin fiberglass and Z-Poxy, and sanded that smooth and added another layer of just the Z-Poxy to get it a little thicker and smoother.  The last pictures show the hulls primed with Dupli-color primer and it will be finished with dDupli-color black low gloss high temp oil resistant engine paint after the interior is primed and painted with Rustoleum brown.

Painting of the superstructure has also begun and it is just as tedious as the wood work was.  Getting every nook and cranny to keep the water and steam out isnt easy.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on October 19, 2015, 12:37:28 PM
 :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :bravo :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on October 30, 2015, 03:38:36 AM
Here is a picture of some of the progress I have made painting.

Everything has been primed and now the first finish coat is going on.

Sure wish I could have just dipped the whole boat in a vat of paint, shake it off and let it dry  :laugh:

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on October 30, 2015, 10:48:46 AM
Spot on Pete. :bravo :bravo :clap :clap :no1b
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2015, 06:24:46 PM


     Hi Pete.

     It does look good. Well done.

     Mike.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: bill stafford on October 31, 2015, 03:24:35 PM
a loverly model , keep up the good work.
just a note on the water jet recovery unit, I like the idea. were I am suffers from strong winds ,and side wheel murrey river type paddlers , dont enjoy the stronger winds.
my next big paddler ,will have twin 555 drives direct to 50 mm props ,that ONLY TURN on at 90%+ full power.
the idea is it acts as a full power only boost, If the wind blows too hard ,and you loose forward motion ,you cant steer a paddler
cheers bill s
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 02, 2015, 10:09:20 AM
Bill,
Thanks for the idea !  I have been debating on just how to control the jet drive.  Setting it up as you suggest would make its use automatic.  Even with the steam plant inop I would just use the same control so no fiddling with another control.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 04, 2015, 12:52:02 PM
I had a local trophy shop make the signs for the boat for me.  I gave them pictures of the full scale signs and a drawing of the size and deck curves I wanted to match.  I think they came out great and only 10 bucks !!

To get an idea of how they would look I loosely assembled the boat parts as they are now.  I have a few issues with paint thickness messing with the fit of some of the parts.  I didnt plan for the thickness of the paint when I was fitting the part so some of them are now too tight.  A little sanding should fix it.

I have also started securing the floats to the paddle wheel

Lots of detail to cover but progress is being made.

Pete

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: vk2dj on November 04, 2015, 05:01:53 PM
G'day  Pete very impressive build the detail is worth the time & effort
One question What is your preferred glue I have tried several on test pieces I am leaning towards Titebond they make a waterproof one will be interested in your thoughts
Gary
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 05, 2015, 01:48:34 AM
Gary,
Thanks !  Titebond 3 it the primary glue I used on the boat, I think there is almost a whole 16oz bottle of the stuff in my paddler.  There is some 5 minute epoxy here and there when I wanted things done faster. Superglue was used for the bits that make up the railing and other detail parts because I couldnt see clamping up all those parts and waiting for them to dry.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 08, 2015, 08:41:10 AM
Well it was pointed out to me that the glue joint between the brass spokes and the wood floats on my paddle wheel has a good chance of failure.  Between the paint on the float and the different ways wood and metal expand he suggested that it would be prone to failure.  I agreed and came up with using brass wire to secure the wood to the brass at the ends of every float.

I have put the baluster stickers on the mid deck railing and sprayed them with clear lacquer.  That added a lot of detail to the deck.

A fun bit of progress was painting on gold bands to the smoke stack.  I used the lathe to slowly spin the stack while painting and while it dried.

Pete

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on November 08, 2015, 10:47:19 AM
 :bravo :clap :bravo :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 09, 2015, 01:25:58 PM
Thanks Damien !

I started mounting the lights that run the perimeter of the decks.  Turns out I didn't order enough ( that's what I get for not measuring ) I plan on running them off a 7.4 lipo pack I have from a remote control truck.   That same battery will run the backup electric jet drive.

This all the mid deck and most of the upper deck done, I still need to figure out where to run the wires deck to deck and what connectors I will use to hook them to each other.

Pete

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 18, 2015, 09:27:27 AM
Big day for me today, I put the boat into the test tank and ran it on air.  Everything went great, one problem with one of the cam push rods getting loose and water getting in the hull when the paddle runs in full reverse.  Other than that it floats exactly where it needs to with 5 lbs of ballast in the bow and she didn't leak a drop.  I didn't run on steam because the gas feed system isn't finished, but the full tank of fuel was on board. 

The electric recovery jet drive works good, as a matter of fact it has enough thrust to rotate the paddle at full throttle.  I will probably make a bit of a deflector at the outlet of the drive to direct the water column down below the paddle. 

Still have a few details to finish out like a servo mount for the whistle valve and gas shutoff valve.  Wiring for the lights has a ways to go and leak check of the water supply tanks and pump.  I had to make an extension for the manual side of my boiler feed water pump because of my lack of planning.  When I extended to bow I forgot to check the clearance of the pump handle so when I remounted the pump I found I had no access to the handle with the extended superstructure in place.  Oops, well I have a handle mounted up on the bow now with a push rod under the deck to operate the pump.  The handle is removable when its not in use and its actually a better setup now.

I am sure there are a few other items that need completing that I haven't thought of too.

Getting a bit excited to see it out on the water on its own power !!

Pete

Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHisuJegus

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on November 18, 2015, 12:08:51 PM
 :no1b :bravo :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on November 18, 2015, 02:48:13 PM
Well congratulations Pete....... you deserve to be very proud.....:beer.......she looks very good in the video :bravo

We see with ~~40 PSI the wheel rotation is just over 60 RPM.......I understand you had your workshop air compressor regulated down to this pressure, however did you restrict the air flow to attain that paddle speed?.......it will be interesting to see the vessel steaming along at this paddle RPM and understand if the speed is prototypical scale

We also see in image_3037 what appears to be 2" draft as you predicted......however what is the total vessel weight?....with the two side mounted water tanks full...and also the gas tank...speaking of which :shhh.....is it hidden under the foredeck hatch?

Back to the water tanks......what is the total water volume/weight?.......having the tanks sensibly mounted far FWD, will only result in the bow lifting as you consume the water, however the stern wheel depth of immersion should remain pretty well even depth

Again congratulations...well done......... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: victor vector on November 19, 2015, 08:43:26 PM
Lovely work !

Very impressive model.

 :no1b
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 20, 2015, 05:30:58 AM
  :c017

Derek - Yep I had the shop air feeding the boiler to 40psi which is just under the crack pressure of the first relief valve. From there the air ran through the steam feed lines to the pair of throttle valves ( one for each engine to fine tune the movement ) which restricted the flow to get the paddle rpm you see in the video.  The full scale boat in Florida runs 7 to 10 rpm so I am really fast.  I added another video (  https://youtu.be/VdhiP_ZSMtI  ) to show the range of speed the paddle has.  I was just moving the throttle servo by hand so the increase in speed will be smoother when the servo drives itself.

So far the total weight is 47lbs with a full propane tank and empty water tanks ( yep good observation the gas is under the forward hatch ) I havent checked the capacity of the water tanks yet. I just fit as much pipe as I could in the space I dedicated to water.  I may not even need that much. I plan on a leak check of those tanks soon so I will measure the max capacity when I do that.  You are correct the bow will rise as I vaporise water and it will transfer aft as the condensation traps located under the engines fill up with oil and water.  Hopefully the weight transfer wont drop the paddle too far under water.  Real world running will teach me a lot.

It sure was a fun day !

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on November 20, 2015, 09:57:33 PM
Coming along really well Pete   :bravo :clap :bravo :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on November 21, 2015, 06:33:46 AM
So Pete says....."The full scale boat in Florida runs 7 to 10 rpm so I am really fast"  :crash

Lets say...scale @ 1:24.....therefore shaft speed is the square root of the scale x actual = ~~ 50 RPM.......so your video at ~~60 RPM is not out of the question........see how 50 RPM performs in the next river trials :goodluck

Remember these were graceful & purposeful looking vessels at speed.......certainly not a speed boat.......Derek :beer
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: andy on November 22, 2015, 08:36:50 PM
PERFECT!
I hope, in spring you show to us a drive of the model outside and with steam power?

Andy
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 23, 2015, 06:11:59 AM
I'm hoping to run it next month sometime and it doesn't get too cold to freeze over here and cold air should show the steam off nicely. It's going to depend on getting a calm day and plenty of time to finish the details
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on November 25, 2015, 05:02:22 PM
More progress, all the lights are mounted, but the interconnecting wiring still has to be figured out.  I would like to make it so the connections are made just by placing the levels on each other.  Some sort of brass plate and springs that would make contact as the levels come together.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on November 25, 2015, 05:20:41 PM
Outstanding Pete.  :bravo  :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :no1b
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 01, 2015, 03:18:32 AM
Thanks Damien !

Derek, I measured the water capacity of the boiler and supply tanks and its just at a 1/2 gallon ( just under 2 liters ) so I need to adjust my bow ballast with the full water load on board because it is enough weight to change the trim. Here is a question, since the trim of the boat will change as I use water should I start out with the bow a little low so that the boat doesn't shift the paddle to low in the water by the end of the water supply ?

A bench run on steam and with the r/c system on is going to happen maybe as soon as tomorrow.  I'm sure there will be a few unforeseen problems that will come up but that's why we test stuff right ?

I'll have pictures/video of that event for everyone,

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on December 01, 2015, 07:30:28 AM
Well Pete.....you have progress well, however thinking more about bench tests :goodluck ..... you could consider the following

1. substitute home water tank tests for bench test
2. fill the boiler & on board supply tanks to the correct draft [without the superstructure] , fill the gas tank...[measure the weight of gas].
3. place the vessel in the test tank, secure lines fore & aft, steam up & set every thing to about 1/2 to 3/4 throttle...synchronize watches....camera at the ready
4. sit back & have a  :coffee......monitor your water levels [plastic straw & thumb over the filling point in the tanks]....
5. occasionally increase/decrease engine RPM, and also do a little astern time
6. sit back & have a  :beer.......eventually the system will shut down due to no gas :ranting
7. check the new draft, check the remaining volume/weight of water.....then calculate a nominal/optimal running time on the river water
8. sit back & have a  :beer.......& take a few photographs for us here  :c017

Remember square root of scale x model steaming minutes = real life running time ...so a 30 minute run is really equivalent to about 2 1/2 hour steaming trip.......I hope that makes scence

Derek


Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on December 01, 2015, 12:46:09 PM
Too many of these  :beer  however may have a detrimental effect on the outcome of the test and the ability to write the results down legibly or take photo's  :c002
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 02, 2015, 03:33:30 PM
Well it has run on steam with the r/c gear in control but only on the bench.  I wanted to use the water tank, but everything was in the garage and there is still work to be done.  Moving this big bugger around is no easy task so this run was on dry land.  When its ready it will go in the tank before it goes to the lake.

Every thing went fine except for the FIRE  :c002
What happened was that my burner was turned up too high and the ceramic heated up to the point that the underside of the ceramic got hot enough to light the gas on the inside of the burner, which shot out the air holes next to the gas jet.  That burned some of the insulation on the manifold but nothing else.  The remote emergency fuel shutoff worked perfectly and killed the fire.

After that fun it became real obvious that a change to the burner is needed.

Other than a bit of a hot spot everything else went pretty well.  I am going to change the orientation of the pressure relief valve.  it dumps water all over the bow and makes a mess, especially on its first blow off when its cold.  Later when its up to temp it cycles better and the steam is dryer. I need to get the hang of balancing the heat and steam use.  The relief valve wastes a lot of water just dropping 5psi.

I timed the warm up of the boiler. From stone cold to 5psi was 5 minutes, 6min to 20psi and 9min to 40psi and the primary relief valve venting.  The engine was warm enough to turn in 11min from the lighting of the burner. 

I didn't measure gas consumption or water use, that will have to be in the next run.  I seem to be fairly busy tinkering with the system so documenting every thing that happens is hard to do.

I took a video of a little bit of the run and posted it here - https://youtu.be/y3eVxcSsl3Q

Well I guess it took Edison more than one try to get the light bulb right so this will go smoothly eventually.   At least the hull and superstructure ( which was on at the time ) didnt get any damage.

Pete

( good thing I didnt have any of these  :beer  or the reaction time of the fuel shutoff might have been a bit slower and I would have a lot more repair work to do !!! )

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 02, 2015, 09:42:25 PM
very interesting the american valve geared engine! Until now I`d never seen a functionating model of this kind of engine in steam meetings in Germany or Austria. What are bore and stroke?
The problem with the burner seems not very big, may be a normal brass burner for soldering will be the better choice,
in my two sternwheelers I used this kind of burner with none problems.

Greetings

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 03, 2015, 01:24:04 PM
Thomas,
From what I understand these engines didnt see much use other than in the western American rivers. So I guess people build what they see around them is why the shows around you dont have any examples of my engines.

My bore is 5/8" with a stroke of 3 1/2"

Could you tell me more detail ( maybe a picture or two ) about the burner you use ?

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 04, 2015, 04:23:56 AM
Hi Pete,

my "Ville de Bruges" Congo steamer. You see the quite normal burner for silver soldering in front of the boiler. Diameter is 20 mm, here you can buy such burners in every tool market. It cant`t be overheated, if the gas pressure would became too high, the flame will be extinguish.

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 06, 2015, 11:53:18 PM
Ok, I see what you mean, thanks for the picture that made it clear.  A burner like that gives you a bit of a roar noise correct ?  One of the things I like about my ceramic burners is that it is very quiet.  Most of the noise my setup makes is the steam exhaust and the valve cam movement.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 08, 2015, 12:52:33 PM
Well another bit of a setback. 
This was to be the last bench run today and off to the lake tomorrow.  I changed the jet orifice diameter of my second burner to a #80 drill bit hole ( .0135in or .3429mm ) and opened up the air bleed holes to lean out the burner.  It works great especially when the steam blower in the stack is running which pulls even more air into the burner making it hotter with less gas consumption. The problem is that there was a 45% silver solder joint in the super-heater line just above that now hotter burner.  There was enough heat in the new setup to melt that joint and start a leak.  It sounds minor and it is in comparison to melting a boiler joint, but to fix the damage it means pulling the boiler box apart ( which disturbs every fitting ) and putting a compression fitting in where the solder joint was. 

I am also going to take the opportunity to try to fix my water level glass setup since everything is tore apart.  Right now it taps the bottom of the boiler and the top.  That setup worked fine until I built the box around the boiler and turned it into more of a pot boiler with flues.  The lower water glass fittings now are exposed to the heat from the burners and therefore the water in the fittings boils and makes reading the level really hard.  I am going to punch a new hole in the boiler shell and add a fitting out of the burner area.

Gotta just keep plugging along, i'll get it right sooner or later.

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on December 08, 2015, 04:45:56 PM
Hullo Pete.....I too had a tube failure a few days ago........however with a cold boiler feed tube which had previously been tested to 5.5 Bar TP

When attempting a boiler static water pressure test @ 1.5 x WP [4.5 Bar], I continued to experience decay.......so yes the failed joint was found under the bulging insulation

Your issue it is more curious......45% [Ag] silver solder has a melting point range between 680 to 800 degrees C.... so I cannot understand or see you boiler burner flame creating a temperature high enough to refluidise the soldered joint even at your maximum boiler pressure..............you would need an internal boiler heat/temperature which equates to approx. 400 PSI steam pressure

Having said this, the consideration of installing a brass/copper compression union for this joint is absolutely fraught with danger

The heat/cooling gradient that the copper tube being exposed to will anneal and soften the tube......the initial sealing characteristic [torque/circumferential force] created  will be lost after the first boiler steam up...... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 09, 2015, 12:39:44 PM
Well that gives me another reson to worry about this boat.  The design of the boiler has many problem, one of which is the routing of the steam line.  Where the faiure happened is directly over the ceramic burner which at the time was nice and hot and it cant be moved.  I can melt the silver solder on small parts with propane which is listed at 1980 degrees C not sure my burner is there but it is hot.  Another factor could have been fatigue.  It was in a coil that must be moving as thing heat up and cool so it could have been a mechanical failure.

As far as the compression fitting goes, I have one under there in the fire box already and it been there since the box was built around the boiler.  What you are saying about the copper getting soft and letting go of the crimped fitting does sound right, but I am usually at 25-30 psi and the relief happens at 42psi so the forces on the inside of that little line aren't that high.  The best thing about this whole situation is that the line and its fitting are in the stainless steel fire box so the loss of the line and the venting of steam wont do anything but maybe blow the fire out.  Its kind of a safety relief ?  :-\

I do appreciate the input though, it helps me think this stuff out

Sorry to hear about your boiler, I hope your repair goes well.



Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on December 09, 2015, 04:08:43 PM
Pete......if we go back a few steps

a. 99.9% oxygen free copper has a MP of ~~1080 degrees C
b. 45% [Ag] silver solder has a MP point range between 680 to 800 degrees C [depending on the balance metals x %]
c. the tip of your propane build torch flame may be listed at 1980 degrees C...I suggest that the flame available here would just heat the tube components to say ~~1000 degrees C max
d. what is the actual temperature that your boiler burner produces?

A hand held digital laser pyrometer cannot measure the temperature of the flame, but certainly will provide an accurate confirmation of the temperature effect on the parts directly in line or direct proximity of the radiant heat from the flame

[I paid $1,000 for a Ray-O-Tek digital laser pyrometer for work ten years ago, a few months ago I spent $18 AUD for similar device including air parcel post from China.........the best $18.00 ever spent]

You mention a silver soldered joint in the direct path of the burner gas flame....this essentially is not good

e. the 45% silver solder may have a lower melting point over copper, but the solder is harder
f. continual heating and cooling of the joint will create the failure point, however not the actual mechanical joint between the mating components, but the heat affected zone in the parent material [ie., the copper tube]

Spend the $18.00.....you won't be sorry .........it will give you confirmation of actuals......& not just guesses.....

The pyrometer [-50 to +380C] is on the left, the tachometer [1.0 to 9999 RPM]  on the right & the strain gauge [0 to 40 kg] in the middle....yes all ~~$18.00 each landed in OZ..............Derek  :D

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 10, 2015, 12:07:42 PM
Yippee, a successful day !!!

It didnt sink, burn, or break !

I ended up in a local little pond, the lake I was going to use was being drained so it was all mud. Everything worked great, I ran it for two 30min runs. Each run steamed off almost 1/2 a gallon, Burned about 4 oz of propane, and produced 8oz of oily condensation. The water around the boat stayed clean, I didnt spot any oily rainbows so that system worked great. The water load on the paddle made the throttle response much nicer than on the bench, it didnt run too fast unless it was at full throttle and even then it wasnt crazy with water going everywhere. I put a hunk of foam with a reel of 80lb test fishing line up front tied off to structure and threw the kayak in the truck in case of a sinking. Didnt need it !!! Overall I am very happy and relieved with the performance. What a weight off my shoulders.......

Here is a video - https://youtu.be/BSn42yYE9_A

Pictures will follow when I get a chance to download it

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on December 10, 2015, 01:25:19 PM
Brilliant Pete :clap...just love the exhaust steam from ...yes the four discharges.......so lifelike  :terrific ..... Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on December 10, 2015, 02:13:04 PM
 :no1b :no1b :no1b Absolutely beautiful model Pete a wonderful maiden voyage :clap :clap :clap :clap
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 11, 2015, 11:08:45 AM
Thanks guys it was really fun !!

Here is another video -  https://youtu.be/mG-1L4AHjOU

The shot with the big plume of steam on the right side oops i mean starboard side of the front of the boat is the 40psi relief valve blowing.  The 42psi valve exits forward over the bow to let me know which one opened.  If the second one goes its time to shutdown

Next run will be a night float to see the lights on the water

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 16, 2015, 02:27:57 PM
Night float on the pond,

We headed out to the pond this evening and set up just as the sun went down.  I was hoping for a little cooler air to show more steam, but it was a lot more comfortable at 50 degrees !

I move the fuel tank to the aft part of the boat, it was forming ice on the tank and supply lines when it was up in the bow.  Back near the engines its much warmer and there is more air flow, and that made the gas pressure much more stable.

Pretty strange not being able to see the shore, or any thing around the boat.

Everything worked great, next run will be at Cabin Fever in Pennsylvania.

Pete

Videos -

https://youtu.be/dJWOA6ZYheI

https://youtu.be/emIwj3BG1a0

Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Bierjunge on December 16, 2015, 08:08:17 PM
This looks absolutely wonderful! The illuminated plumes of steam against the dark lake are like a dream!
Please excuse me for one little remark on such a realistic and detailled boat:
I would suggest to remove (ort at least turn off) the interiour lighting of the pilot house. On a night run, the pilot house should be the darkest part of the entire boat!
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 17, 2015, 02:31:56 AM
Thanks !
Your suggestion is exactly right in the real world, but I copied Disney World and they didn't go with realistic.  I guess since the boat is on a track they don't really need to see too well so they light the boat up about the same as I did. They have a lot more gingerbread details that the lights are mounted to, but since the goal of this build was to have a place for my engines to do work I didn't sweat the little stuff.

Here is a picture of the full scale boat I found on the internet

Thanks again for the thoughtful post !!

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 17, 2015, 06:47:07 AM
Hi Pete,

very succesful model. Even the pictures with illumination are impressive. The viedeofilm shows the elegance and beauty of the boat in a special manner!
Pete...do you have you some plans of the next steamer?

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 20, 2015, 05:46:00 AM
Thanks Thomas,
No plans for another project like this, but there is room for improvement on this boat.  I would like to add smoke to the stack at some point.  Nothing big in the works, this one wore me out  :P

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on January 20, 2016, 10:09:02 AM
Hey guys, I got to take my paddler to a huge model engineering expo in Pennsylvania.  It was a 12.5 hour drive to get there but it was worth it !!  There is so much there it is impossible to convey what guys bring to display.  Here is the web site for the show - http://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/  If you search youtube for 'cabin fever expo' there a lots of videos from past events that show what can be seen there.

The boat ran great, absolutely nothing failed and it didnt sink.  I got in five 30 minute runs ( water supply limit each run ) and when it wasnt in the water it was running on a table on compressed air supplied by the show.  I wanted people to see the engines run up close, that way the valve gear movements etc. could be seen rather than me trying to tell them whats happening.

Here is a short video from that day -

https://youtu.be/mSfmBgwVGjc
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on January 20, 2016, 04:46:01 PM
A beautiful model  Pete well done.  :clap :bravo :clap :bravo
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on January 22, 2016, 04:58:43 AM
Thanks Damien, guess that about does it for this thread. 

Thanks to everyone for the ideas and encouragement it is REALLY appreciated !

This sure is a great forum with an even better group of guys !!!!!!!!!!!

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on January 22, 2016, 08:12:27 AM
Well Pete...I think we would appreciate if you consider your thread never really closed, just away down river

So naturally if in time you make some changes, have the vessel steaming in some event somewhere......just take those images & post them here

Happy steaming................Derek :beer
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on January 22, 2016, 11:54:45 PM
Agreed Derek.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on January 23, 2016, 11:27:30 AM
Sure I can do that,  I'm thinking it will get messed with.  I know smoke in the big stack will happen at some point
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Robert Hornby on April 16, 2016, 04:36:41 PM
Hi Peter,
I have just joined the forum and Derek pointed me to your post as a club I joined is about to build a steam paddle wheeler ferry. Congratulations on both your skills at model making and the informative words and pictures on the forum. All your work will assist us greatly in our efforts and will safe a lot of "reinventing the wheel."
Good work Peter.
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on May 23, 2016, 12:09:21 PM
Robert,
Sorry for the delay in responding I havent been checking up on this log very often. Thanks for the kind words ! If I can help in anyway feel free to ask. I'm no expert you have seen the only boat I have ever built.  Good luck with your project, I would love to see it as it is built.
Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on August 29, 2016, 09:11:59 PM
A little update about what my boat is doing.  I used my new trailer to launch the Liberty Belle and it worked great.  It sure was nice not having to lift the boat at all !!

Here is a video from that day.
https://youtu.be/YSkRFOK9aj0

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on September 04, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
That's marvellous Pete.  :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :great
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Delaunay on September 04, 2016, 05:03:04 PM
:) Bonjour;
Vidéo magnifique l'on croirais un vrai de vrai bateau ... sauf comme toujours le sifflet un peu trop claire .
Mais quel régal  :no1b
Cordialement


:) Hello;
Video beautiful one would think a real one boat ... but as always too clear whistle.
But what a treat: no1b
cordially

François
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on September 17, 2016, 06:42:36 AM
I hope you all are not sick of my boat, I just like to share it with others that appreciate what it is !
I came across this body of water that looks like a stream but its really an extension of a pond. Thought my riverboat would look at home here. Its deeper than 8ft so if I sank I would be in trouble but everything went well.
Here are three videos, I really need to learn to splice stuff like this together and edit it into one movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UczvVGXaR0E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXrlema3iIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_6Efw0GtE8

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Delaunay on September 17, 2016, 04:51:30 PM
 :) Hello !
Belles vidéos, on imaginerais des scènes de la vie d'un autre temps  :bravo
En regardant votre chaine de vidéos, celle du système de remisage dans le garage est digue d'un professionnel  :trophy
Trop beau !!!!!

Beautiful videos we imagine scenes from the life of another time: bravo
Watching your video chain, that of the storage system in the garage is dam of a professional: trophy
Too handsome !!!!!
François  :azn:
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 12, 2016, 08:23:36 AM
Hey Guys !

This may not be all that cold to some of you, but for me here in Georgia USA its chilly, I thought global warming would make my winters nicer

Anyway I hauled out my sternwheeler to see how good the exhaust would look on a cold day. I was delayed an hour or so which dropped the humidity 10 percent and raised the temp 5 degrees. I really liked how the boat looked on the water with all the steam everywhere. Next weather event to shoot a video in will be fog !! Kinda hard to request fog on my off day though.

Pete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pVm-UziOA8&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z123djtwnnzwgrsi004chhnxawu1gburalg0k
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on December 12, 2016, 11:14:49 AM
Hey Pete.......

That steam exiting your stern wheeler is without doubt the greatest example I have seen in any model steam powered vessel....Congratulations  :terrific

Is that a shelia standing on the upper stern deck overlooking the wheel?.......if so she'll get steam in her eyes.... :sorry

Have a happy and safe festive season with your family..........

Derek
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: DamienG on December 12, 2016, 01:19:01 PM
Love it Pete well done.  :clap :bravo :clap :no1b
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 12, 2016, 07:27:09 PM
Hi Pete,

the scene looks like a part of Joseph Conrads "Heart of darkness"! Phantastic!

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Delaunay on December 12, 2016, 07:29:27 PM
 :) Hello ;
Top of the top navigation in situation.
I happened more than 10 times the videos (especially the last) and I dream of a long journey on unknown rivers on such a boat. ;)
Bravo.
cordially
François
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: apointofview on December 14, 2016, 11:29:23 AM
Thank you all !!!
The Liberty Belle sure did make quite a steam display !! I am thrilled with how well it performed I was a bit worried the boiler would have trouble in the cold but it worked fine, I guess the 1/4 inch thick ceramic insulation did its job.
I have never had the boiler draft blower steam show up exiting the smoke stack before. During the warming of the boiler the steam exiting the stack looked so good I turned up the rate for the blower to get more steam just for the show.  What I did not take into account was the increased water usage this would cause.  It wasn't till after I was stranded on the pond and had to use the electric backup jetdrive to get to shore that I figured out what happened, I ran the boiler out of water  :o  The feedwater pump couldn't keep up with the water consumption, turns out that the blower setting is critical  :P

Derek, I think everyone onboard was covered by steam a few times during that cruise,  I'll bet traveling on those full scale boats was a bit messy for the passengers and crew !!

Thomas - I will have to look up Joseph Conrads Heart of darkness you've got me curious

I really like anything steam powered, not sure why but it's great to watch, I sure wish I could generate this kind of heat and steam volume on a cold day -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z8MIXXDPls&feature=youtu.be

Pete
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on March 31, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Hi friends,

in May 2015 I put some posts in this heading of my sternwheelers "Ville des Bruges" and "Zambezi". Now I improve the last one, the "Zambezi".
I wasn`t satisfied with primitive oscillating engine on a sternwheeler.
Now I `m altering this engine with Regner and home made parts to a piston slidge engine. Also at the boat are some alterings are necessary, because both engine units needs more space than before. I hope the altering will be successful...

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: kno3 on April 10, 2017, 12:13:59 AM
Very interesting engine. Did you build it?
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on April 10, 2017, 04:05:58 AM
I used the cylinders of the Mark Twain Kit (Krick Modellbau) from the 1990-tis and combined they with the piston slidges of the Regner 12/36. Connection rods, the engine base and some other parts are home made. The engine is now working, but fine adjusting is still necessery

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on April 11, 2017, 06:28:03 AM
Today I made the right adjustment. The engine is running smoothly from 0,5 bar on. Steam consumption is rather high with regard of stroke 60 mm and bore of 12 mm. The engine is much more original than the oscillating before.

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Delaunay on April 11, 2017, 03:30:59 PM
 :)  Good morning;
 Wonderful realization, but I would make a small remark (and I am ashamed  :respect ) pity that you can not hide the plastic joints of the rudder controls.
 :bravo
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on April 11, 2017, 06:26:07 PM
Thank you. But on the pictures I see by myself - the plastic rudder controls are disturbing. I will consider to hide them or replace them by metal parts.

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: kno3 on April 15, 2017, 09:07:11 PM
Metal parts would look much nicer and need no hiding 😀
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on June 09, 2017, 04:51:56 PM
Hi friend and neighbors,

hope you will enjoy at the pictures of the "Zambezi" ex "Zulu". I made they yesterday at a small pond not far from the upper Danube.

Thomas
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: kno3 on August 04, 2017, 08:44:31 PM
Very nice. Where on the Danube is that?
Title: Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
Post by: Hankwilliams on August 05, 2017, 07:12:44 PM
It`s not on the Danube. This is a small pond about 4 kilometres far of the upper Danube at the city of Ehingen. Unfortunately in the heat of summer the pond now is full of water weed, at time it is not possible, to drive a shipmodel.

Thomas