Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: R.G.Y. on December 20, 2009, 09:34:31 AM
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I am building a model of the Duke of Devonshire. has anyone information, I have measurements and three postcards, but you can't have to much information. I also have a lot about her when named Consul. R.G.Y.
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Very good news no one knows much about this boat. that is fine as I like to build some thing different. Eddy if you could move this thread to construction I will start posting the build . Geoff.
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Eddy if you could move this thread to construction I will start posting the build . Geoff.
Consider it moved Geoff ;)
Regards
Eddy
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmm PD's........being of Irish convict stock :nahnah ... we were taught that Devonshire biscuits were intentionally infested with vermon & weeeeevels as extra proteeeeeen to the 17 week passage to OZ of the First Fleet
Captain Cook is well documented in that he did not offer any kind words for the "Duke of Devonshire" ....
So I rest my case & agree that a model vessel bearing the said name "Duke of Devonshire" should not be build ... :ranting ...lest it be a rat infested, vermon plagued hulk ....Derek
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Derek, Yes sounds just right for one of my models. R.G.Y.
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This should be interesting, I was tempted to have a go at 'Consul' myself but decided I had more photos (in books) etc. of Princess Liz plus I'd never actually seen the real Consul to draw or photograph any details...
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Oh dear PD's....I am sure R.G.Y. has thick skin as it was never :nono .....implied that his model vessels were ..... :sorry ...
'lest they be rat infested, vermon plagued hulk's' ......Derek :vacation
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Apology accepted Derek, us poms expect that from OZ.
The Duke of Devonshire, built by R & H Green of London in 1896. Designed and owned by the Devon Dock, Pier and Steamship Co. Ltd, along with sister ship the Duchess of Devonshire of 1892. Operated as seasonal pleasure craft along the south Devon and Dorset coast. Where no pier was available they would be driven into the beach and a complicated gangway was then extended from the bow so the passenger could alight. This risky operation ended in disaster, 27 August 1934 when the Duchess was washed broadside onto Sidmouth beach and was a total wreak. Sold to Cosens of Weymouth in 1937 the Duke was renamed Consil, sold by them 1963. Moved to Dartmouth and used as accommodation by a sailing club. Finale scraped 1968.
At 175ft bp by 20.5ft beam I plan on building 3/8 inch = 1ft going to be long! Frames marked out and raw materials starting to be assembled. Attached. Geoff
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I didn't realise you'd already made a start Geoff, well done.... I was just about to reach for a can of Carlsberg when I noticed the wire connecting them to the mains!! You don't take chances with your amber nectar do you? :ranting
I'm looking forward to following your build.....
Regards
Eddy
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Found this info and photos of the Duchess of Devonshire. Could be of use to you.
http://www.megoran.fsworld.co.uk/DuchessD.htm
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Sorry Eddy the cans are all empty. they are the raw materials.
Yes I have Started, drawn a plan of sorts good enough for me. The thine piece of wood is a scale rule marked in red on one side to scale of plan and scale of model in blue on the other. Different colors so I don't get confused. The body plan an amalgamation of Duchess of Fife & Glen Usk. Cut down as the main deck on the Duke is not plated over. I mark half a frame fold down the center line and cut out. I apply glue stick (off the wife's craft table) to the ply then rub the patterns down this prevents the paper expanding through absorbing moisture. Ply from old draw bottoms.
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My plans are drawn on computer like most are now. First I have to find a photograph of the ship at 90 degrees I scan this into a C.A.D program as large as possible, draw around all the visible features, then delete the photo. Dropping the lines down I guestamate the deck shape using the body plan from a similar ship if the ship to be modeled is not available. I measure the length B.P. knowing the length of the ship I can work out the scale. I used to have access to professional auto cad release 13 where I could work in full size, now I have to struggle with a £10 cheepie. I print a copy and stick all the A4 sheets together and pin on the workshop wall. Study all the information I have and wright it on the plan. Make a double scale rule and start the build. @ 3/8th =1ft the beam =7.1/2" + sponsons 2.5/8 length= 69" overall. Should be ease to drive through the water, so I am tempted to go to 24th scale 10.1/4 + 91.1/2. The only thing putting me of is the large turning circle? any ideas! Geoff.
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Hi Geoff, i had a look at rmcluckie's link and the info on http://freespace.virgin.net/tom.lee/consulimg.htm
She looks like she will make a nice model and look forward to hearing more.
What are your plans for Hull will it be planked or moulded?
I know you have probably thought of making an over sized rudder or removable extension to reduce turning circle so apologies if stating the obvious.
Regarding Cad software i bought a (genuine) copy of an older version of Corel Draw (v7) which was adequate for my cnc machine (how i miss it now!) and the formats i can save in are all widely accepted by my suppliers which is great as the cost of upgrading to a recent version of corel is a little bit to expensive for me.
Like i say look forward to reading more.
Regards
Kim
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The answer to Kim's question. Plank on frame plus plating. Production of the plates, cut the ends off drink cans I use a band saw, slit down the join in the transfer with scissors and flatten. See below. Also included is the photo I used to draw the plan!
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The answer to Kim's question. Plank on frame plus plating.
You have bags of patience!
Production of the plates, cut the ends off drink cans I use a band saw, slit down the join in the transfer with scissors and flatten. See below. Also included is the photo I used to draw the plan!
Watch your fingers, especially if you run short on material and need to drain the contents of new supplies in a hurry.
Just out of interest, what glue would you recommend for sticking tin / metal to wood?
Regards,
Kim
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I have used impact adhesive (evo stik) and 5 minute epoxy. As I lay the plates as full size practice. The first layer metal to wood impact is used. Second layer impact on the wood with bead of epoxy on the edge top and bottom where metal overlaps. Don't worry I have plenty of materials (cans not all my own) I am very lucky with my digits still have 10 at the moment after 53 years working with wood work machines. Don't ever get over confident is my advice.
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The slipway is clear and marked out ready (chalked to show in the photo). The old wardrobe on bench will cut the keel nice bit of oak. Displacement of 18.5 lbs at 3/8th per inch, the steam plant (see the boilers thread in live steam) weight 9lbs, leaves plenty to spare for the boat and ballast. My Glen Usk Weighs in at 9lbs total with the steam plant taking 5.5lbs of this.Geoff.
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I don't want to worry you Geoff, but Santa seems to have left one of his elves in the corner of your workshop! :whistle
Eddy
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Can't be an elf, well if it is it's not one of Santa's. They help not hinder. You made me smile Eddy.Geoff
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Made a little progress today. Keel laid stem and stern post fixed. The steam plant fits nicely . Also a picture of the information wall and my stock of balsa, left over from aeromodeling days 1970. Some of the pieces cost as much as 24p. R.G.Y.
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Looking good Geoff, lets see if you can build a hull as quick as Stuart..... You have about 7 days to complete it! ;)
Now that things are hopefully settling down at home, maybe I can get onto some of the projects I want to do? One gas turbine powered model of Hustler (the boat that took Danald Cambells record just after he was killed), two hovercraft (An SRN1 and a Griffon 470TD RNLI rescue craft), oh and a secret paddler....
Eddy
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You will have to be quicker than anyone to build that lot EDDY. I concede to Stuart. I have too play bowls 3 or 4 times a week. On Sundays I have to mechanic for my motorcycle racing son, and I try to sail models some times. I will try to finish.in time for the paddle day. But don't bank on it Geoff
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....An SRN1....
I'll be interested to see that! do you have the plans? http://www.myhobbystore.com/product.asp?p=16728
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Thank heaven for the snow no shopping no gardening! So a morning in the workshop, and the ELF has gone home. More photos of the progress. You will see my methods are unconventional, as I proceed. The model will be split to enable it to go in my car. Joint in last photo, No5 frame was wrong, to tall so a quick fix slope it backwards. Oh I forgot to say the slipway was rubbed with candle grease so the keel won't stick.
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Geoff, I assume what looks like a balsa deck is only there to hold the frames square while building?
Eddy
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Right and wrong Eddy, yes its balsa, no it's not temporary the hull will be balsa all over.Hence the picture of my balsa stock. My GLEN USK has a balsa hull with a ply deck, 8 years old still going strong. That is why I need the drink can plating. I had though frame 5 might have caused comment R.G.Y.
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....I have measurements and three postcards, but you can't have to much information....
there's some on the 'simplon' pages - http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/DevonDock.html
a good picture of Consul here - http://paddlesteamers.awardspace.com/ConsulDukeofDevonshire.htm
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Thanks Mick good imfo. Also thanks to the others who have posted leads. Geoff
more progress, why draw a plan when you can draw on the model.
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The boiler just fits, Will have to turn the syphon around,(picture 2) then the boiler can be moved 1" forward. This will give more clearance around paddle shaft gear.The pressure gauge needs to be in this position as it will be visible through a doorway.R.G.Y.
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A small problem, the gear wheel (from a old printer) has a 7.5mm hole in the center. To hard to drill. The sealed roller bearings (old battery drill) that carry the ends of the shaft have a10mm hole. Hear is my solution. The last photo shows the shaft joined dry, a collar will be fitted each side of the gear to strengthan the joint. R.G.Y.
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Looking good there, nice solution to the shaft problem. I must get back inbto the workshop and restart my projects.
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Thanks Ian I was quite Chuffed myself. Of Course I could have got a 8mm rod turned off .5mm then bushed the bearings, But I like to use what I have.
I hope I have inspired you back into your workshop. Geoff
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Paddleducks, still quiet! Are you all in your workshops? I have just managed an afternoon, made the blocks to hold the bearings, the collar to strengthen the joint in the shaft and turned the hubs for the wheels. In the photo can be seen an extra bearing, fixed to a pillar it is extra support next to the eccentric for the boiler water supply pump. this is still in production. In the mean time the hull is almost planked pictures soon. Geoff
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Good to hear your making progress Geoff, I think everyone else on PD's has either gone into hibernation for the winter, or those in the southern hemisphere are on their summer hols!
Regards
Eddy
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Hull planking I was tempted to keep these pictures secret! the job looks so rough. Quarter inch balsa doesn't bend to well, so a lot of sanding will be required. Why use balsa? I believe lightness is the key to a sailing model especially a paddler. The shaft and wheels are aluminium, for the same reason. Geoff
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It's not the way it looks WHILE you're building it that matters - it's how it looks AFTER you've built it!
Balsa's a great material.
All the best
Stuart
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I have to agree with Stuart, Geoff. Some of the models I've built looked like a right pile of &*$£ while I was building, but with a bit of elbow grease they generally turn out okay.
The advantage with balsa is that its so easy to shape, so you shouldn't have any real problem.
Regards
Eddy
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Progress is progress and its all in the direction of a lovely finished boat :coffee. reminder to self, get in the workshop :whistle
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I was just worried some modelers might think it was rubbish. Thanks guys. I used the same method for the Glen Usk but with 1/16" sheet, this time I used 1/4"so have a better chance of getting a good shape. Four more strips tomorrow and out with the sanding block. Balsa for the deck is 1/8". Last time I saved the dust from the sanding mixed it with pva and filled the hollows and gaps. geoff
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Geoff, I hope you'll find our members will never slag someone off for trying - We may give advice on better methods or how to improve things, but never ever make comments that would put someone off, at least certainly not intentionally!!
The fact is that you have the basics of a hull, and with some work it can be made into a decent job - Nothing to be ashamed of in that!
If someone else appears to do things in a better way, thats' fine, it's something you can make a note of and perhaps aspire to in a future build, but it certainly doesn't mean your methods are any less valid...
And just think of how fit your right arm will get with all the sanding! :hehe
Eddy
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Geoff, If it makes you feel any better i have just finished making a plug .... expanding foam first - easy to sand ... a ton of body filler later and an exhausted arm and fed up. Makes me wish i had used Balsa! :darn
I can also see the potential in your hull so keep it up!
Regards,
Kim
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The only disadvantage I find with using Balsa is its price, but my wife claims I complain about the price of everything.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Gerald, Have you seen my stock of balsa, photo earlier in this post. Just used a 1/4"+ 4inch + 4ft plank of balsa, still had the price sticker on it 35p!! it is 1970 vintage.
Kim, I have used polyurethane foam for a scale collier. This was covered with cider can plates. Will find a picture to post.
Eddy, My right arm is getting plenty of exercise acquiring the cider cans. Could that be the reason for the rough planking. I don't know how long I have taken but when I split it can it count as two hulls, still not quicker than Stuart.
Finished the planking hurray. Fixed the sponsons ( 3/8 balsa sandwiched between 2 pieces of 1.5mm ply ) Next the magic bit braking it in half tomorrow. Photos of sponsons clamped up,engine - boiler room and 3 models relegated to the workshop. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Enjoying reading about your build, keep up the good work. By the way that is some stock of balsa you have!!
regards
Clark
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"Gerald, Have you seen my stock of balsa, photo earlier in this post. Just used a 1/4"+ 4inch + 4ft plank of balsa, still had the price sticker on it 35p!! it is 1970 vintage."
Yes I did notice your stock, it almost cost me a keyboard, I have horded some balsa myself, but I shudder every time I have to buy more at the hobby shop.
Regards,
Gerald.
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.... I was tempted to keep these pictures secret! the job looks so rough....
So do mine before the first coat of primer goes on!
I'm sure it'll be perfect when it's done :D
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Kim here is one I made earlier. This is the model built entierly of foam covered in cider cans. She is the CROWPILL the registred in Bridgwater Somerset to bring coal in to Bridgwater Dock.
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Broken in half, and resting on a pillow. I use a pillow rather than a stand it won't mark the balsa, and will hold the hull still in any position. Note the dowel through the sponson, they need to be strong that is where paddlers tend to get lifted. The single nylon wing nut, back of engine bay holds it all together, along with two 6mm pins just aft of the paddle shaft. I did have 3/8th wooden pins, but though they may expand in the water and prevent me getting the boat home. So aluminium pins fit into nylon bushes. The black nylon bushes can be seen in top photo right hand side. The rough glue oosing out the joint is polyurethane wood glue I but a bead each side of the frames for extra strength. It is totally waterproof and gap filling, the only drawback if you get it on your skin you can't remove it for days. Geoff
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resting on a pillow. I use a pillow rather than a stand it won't mark the balsa, and will hold the hull still in any position.
Thanks for the very useful tip Geoff! It's funny how the simplest solutions are best.
I will definitely be making use of that tip in the near future. ( As soon as i have some new pillows for the bed... Shouldn't take much persuading the wife on that one.)
Thanks,
Kim
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Kim feather pillows are best. geoff
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Marked out the wheel pic 1. 16swg aluminium, ex stock car wing from my racing days.
Had a quick mockup just to see how it fits. pic2. Have to watch my fingers when turning the steam cock.
Off to the sun so work on hold. Geoff
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Nice work. Do you have any plans for the paddle-wheels?
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Have to watch my fingers when turning the steam cock.
I'm not really into steam, but is there such a thing as a 90 degree steam cock, to keep the fingers out of harms way?
Off to the sun so work on hold. Geoff
Anywhere nice?
Regards
Eddy
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Yes Eddy there is a 90 degree stop cock. But to save buying another. I will make a new bush to turn the whole cock. I will also move the oil-er to the other port, to make room for the feed pump. As the clack has to be on the starboard. Geoff
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Marked out the wheel pic 1. 16swg aluminium, ex stock car wing from my racing days.
Had a quick mockup just to see how it fits. pic2. Have to watch my fingers when turning the steam cock.
Off to the sun so work on hold. Geoff
Could you post more shots of the engine?
Regards,
Gerald.
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Gerald, Picture of my engines in my Gallery. If you would like more I will post when I return. Geoff
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Thanks Geoff,
I keep forgetting to look in the Gallery.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Most of the information I have found on the Duke. Geoff
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Returned from holiday last night. Tenerife Eddy. While the boss unpacked and did the washing I was in the workshop all day. working on the paddle wheels. about 6 hours. P1. First bolt the 4 plates together, drill 1 pivot hole (1.5mm) and using a gimp pin (small nail with a head) form a rivet. Drill the rest of the pivot holes and rivet every other one. Cut the nail off with side cutters as close as possible very gently tap the tapered cut left by the cutter to form the rivet. Best to have to little nail protruding, if to much the nail will bend disaster!! if to little use an other nail. P2. Next drill a hole large enough to get a jig saw blade through. followed by smaller holes in the corners. P3. With a fine blade in the jigsaw cut out the centers. P5. All done Wish I had a mill with a rotary table. would have been a lot easier. File down to the scribed lines making sure you file square. Leave the outside until last. P6 File off the rivets and 4 identical sides. P7 Tidy up the wheels I used a button to file to the pivot holes as this is critical. P8 The bending jig. P9 wheel in the jig con-caved. the top ply removed this holds the outer section flat.P10 Epoxy the wheels to the hub .The small rod indicates the wheels are square. P11 &12 work so far. You will see I have sanded down the hull. Geoff.
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Welcome back Geoff, hope the holiday went well?
I'll bet the snow and sub zero temperatures were a shock to the system when you got back home!! :)
The wheels look good, but a hell of a lot of work!! Rather you than me with all that drilling, cutting, and filing!
Regards
Eddy
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Looks good :)
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Nice work with the paddlewheels.
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great looking wheels there
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No snow in Teignmouth Eddy yet! We have a a big fire in our grate. Thanks for the comments guys. The fiddly bits next. More tomorrow. Geoff
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Six hours again to day. Tomorrow playing bowls, Sunday motorbike racing. So more on Monday hopefully. P1 strips of 20 swg aluminium and mild steel pattern. For making brackets. P2 jig for drilling holes they must be all the same. Drilling through the pattern two at a time. P3 Bolt four to pattern file to shape, repeat . P4 Jig for bending up make left and right hand. P5 First bracket finished. P6 All completed. P7 One float riveted to bracket and fitted to wheel. Each float needs fitting as the tolerances are very tight, just one stroke of the file can make a big difference. P8 The photo I have of the original shows the floats worn away by touching the frame of the wheel. P9 work so far, I have masked the wood so I can spray paint when finished. You will see the thin aluminium tubes with small holes near each end. they are the hinge pins, 10BA bolts tap into the tubes. I run solder into the small holes so the bolts don't undo. This arangment strengthens the wheel, and has worked well for me in the past, not true scale I know. Geoff
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Did manage some work (play) today. The rudder completed This and the wheels are the only visible rivets, all the rest will be flush. Also finished rubbing down and filling the hull. Marked the plating runs and the portholes. In the final picture can be seen the housing for the bearing holders.Goff
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4 hours play today. P1 the funnel 2 beer cans, had no aluminium large enough for the cap so had to use brass, weight at height not good. but it is very thin. P2 Nails through sides of hub then bent up, to accept bracing tubes. P3 All the parts to complete one wheel. P4 One completed wheel less feathering rods. Geoff
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I have some things that cant be determined from the photos I have found. First no stanchions can be see on the inside of the bulwarks. Only reinforcement at the shrouds. As there are passengers sat against the bulwarks I am thinking they are lined with timber? Secondly no wash ports or gaps can be seen. In this case my thoughts are a cover board laid on the perimeter of the deck forming a scupper 9 inches inboard. Where lead pipes direct the water overboard. An other ideas? Most welcome. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Enjoying watching the progress on your build, coming together nicely.
With regard to the bulwarks, I have plans of an 1890s paddler showing stantions/supports on the inside of solid bulwarks, about every 5 feet or so.
Possibly these supports are hidden behind wooden slatted seating on the "Duke".
A 9" scupper inside the bulwarks sounds about right....I have made them about that wide on my build.
regards
Clark
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You've certainly been very busy over the last few days Geoff! Puts my pathetic efforts to shame! I just don't seem to be making much progress at the moment :(
Keep the posts coming, I'm watching with interest....
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks Clark, I now think you are right about the stanchions, there seem to be very few. The postcards I have are here so you can see. No slatted backs can be seen though.
Eddy, I may have done a lot of work, but it will take a month to clear up the mess in the workshop.
I forgot to say the notches in the hinge tubes are for solder to penetrate on to the gimp pins. The advantage of using aluminium is even if the solder runs into the pivot holes, the hinge will not seize. Off course the solder will not stick. The same method is used with the pivots on the feathering rods. see below. geoff
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Geoff,
This pic as Consul shows supports just above the seating...not very clear though i'm afraid
Clark
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A lot of stanchions there. Yes but she had two large rebuild by this time. The cars 50-60s. I hate slats!!(on the seats.) But if I have to I will. Thanks all the same. Geoff
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Interesting pic.
What are all the 'knobbly' bits towards the bow are they anodes?
As for slats Geoff i know what you mean!
Kim
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Knobbly bits? They would not be anodes as they are above the water line. My thoughts are they could be fixing points for the on board gangway. This strange arrangement can be seen below. Geoff
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Hi PD's.....looks can be deceiving.. :whistle......but that snap of Consul posted 19/2 @ 10:50 with the double extended bridge :hammer looks TOP heavy .....Derek
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Nice to hear from you again Derek. As you say looks can be deceiving, apparently it was a very rickety arrangemenT.
The gang plank, I am trying to figure out how it worked. Then I could operate it on the model.
Had a disaster yesterday, fixed the feathering rods to the wheel. To short!! I had put the float central and measured to the center of the wheel, wrong. The small discrepancy of 3/16" doubled to 3/8"! What I should have done is put one float out and the opposite float in and measured between the two. So I have to make new sets, and buy tube. Geoff
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Hi PD's.....looks can be deceiving .....but that snap of Consul with the double extended bridge looks TOP heavy .....Derek
I thought so too, saw that picture (or one very much like it) in one or two of the books I have, strangely, Princess Elizabeth or Embassy don't seem to look that way even when they have the white canvass sheeting on the front of their promenade decks, I wondered is Consul/Duke of Devonshire narrower in beam?
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Yes quite narrow @ 20ft + 175ft also the paddle boxes are only 6ft each. The funnel is also very thin and tall. A lot of later steamers had the main deck plated in this would alter the appearance of the superstructure .
Geoff
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Yesterdays disaster is today's good fortune. Having no more ali tube and being to mean to pay for more, I had a look at my stock. Thin brass rod and brass tube to fit. The new design is a lot neater and is adjustable. When the wheels are fitted I will be able to warm the solder and move the ends in or out. The king rod may present some difficulty? P1 the materials cut. P2 The soldering gig. P3 the new rods, compare with previous. P4 In position note the good angle of the floats. P5 Not much tolerance between rod and float.
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Here's another trial mock up. Eddy note I have altered the steam cock, so my fingers should be OK. New items, the brass eccentric for the pump, the clamps holding down the bearing blocks. And of course the wheels are complete. They are just super glued to the shaft as are the bearing centers. All this can be dismantled, the shaft lifts straight up for maintenance, even if I have to play the blow torch on the glue. The reason for the mock up I need to see how the pump can be designed to fit. The feathering pivots will be adjusted to give the maximum throw to the floats, then bolted to the under side of the sponson. Inside the hull has been fiber glassed in the engine room, and just resin for the rest. Geoff.
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....no stanchions can be see on the inside of the bulwarks. Only reinforcement at the shrouds.....
The following picture (colour one) is the best I could find of that area. The second picture shows the stern but is taken from Princess Elizabeth and shows, in the same area, braced rods of similar thickness to stanchions welded (presumably) to the top of the bulwarks and bolted to the deck (possibly inside the waterway, possibly to the wood) and looking closely at the first pic I'd say Consul has something similar, I'm sure I can see the rods between the plate joins!
Model's coming along nicely I see, it'll be good to see how that boiler performs :D
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By the way, in the first pic, I think the seats are folded up in a similar way to ones in theatre/cinemas but in sections three seats wide...
edit* on closer inspection, I think that's the same picture (rear cover of 'Glory Days'? ) I found that looking at these pictures with a large magnifying glass reveals quite a lot more detail than I'm able to see by eye!
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....no wash ports or gaps can be seen....
In that picture in the book, there appears to be a freeing port (?...plate covering a cut away in the bulwark, possibly hinged or just set slightly away somehow to allow water out) just above the start of the sponson in the white area... but I didn't get that bit in the photo ???
edit* tried to get it using 'macro' on the camera...
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You have been bizzy Mick. Thanks very much cant have to much information. I have steamed the boiler With a blow torch. I,m still not happy with the burner though, not spent time on that lately. Geoff
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R.G.Y., where can I get some info on the engine in this boat? Earlier you said there were pictures of it in your gallery. I don't know how to get to your gallery. How long is the boat? Thanks, ray
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Ray, click on gallery scroll down, then members gallery, scroll down you will see R.G.Y. click. Both my engines are there. The large Westbury designed diagonal paddle slide valve engine .75inch bore 1.5inch stroke, double acting twin. Had this running on air, but the timing has slipped. As I built it narrower than the plan I have to separate it to reset timing one day. The engine in the Duke is my own design my first. Also double acting twin, but an oscillator .5 +1 inch. This has also run on air at 20psi. Just in case you can't find it here is the installation, showing the central gear,the displacement oil-er, the eccentric for the pump, which is the next design and build project.Geoff
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Thank you R.G.Y. I think the double oscillator is interesting. I will go to the gallery. Have a great day. Ray
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The time to make the paddle wheels 30 hours, 15 hours each, including making four sets of feathering rods and painting. Very pleased with that.
Next to the funnel are two large engine room vents, high up so must be light. here is my solution. Well just the start. Geoff
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ingenious, why is it i can never think of these solutions when i need them.
:bravo
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In need of help again? Information or opinions on whether there would be grating over the rudder quadrant. Or would it be decked over? As there are examples of both. As I have started planking the main deck, I am goning for a grating soon. It will allow accsess to the rudder. Geoff
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It may be more work, but I vote for grating.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Hi PD's.........mmmmmmmmmmm :whistle....I agree with Gerald.....may be a little extra work :hammer :hammer for RGY...but the grating over the rudder quadrant would be :terrific .......
Every small sub component in a build can add a realistic perception ......Derek :beer
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That's grating 3 planking 0. Any extra time? Geoff
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Go for a grating Geoff!
All the best
Stuart
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In need of help again? Information or opinions on whether there would be grating over the rudder quadrant. Or would it be decked over? As there are examples of both. As I have started planking the main deck, I am goning for a grating soon. It will allow accsess to the rudder. Geoff
I agree with the rest Geoff, a grating would look so much better....... This chap does a decent selection of gratings, and at the prices he charges it's hardly worth making your own in my opinion: http://www.modellingtimbers.co.uk/7.html
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy had a look at the gratings on the you mention, almost had me spending money! But looking in my rubbish I found some wire mesh. I built up the thickness with several coats of yellow ocher artist paint, I just have to clean it up now and make a frame. I have also laid the main deck planking. Fixed the rudder servo with linkage. In the rubbish I found a aluminium cupboard door handle, so I replaced the brass top on the funnel. I will reduce the funnel on the boiler as well. Geoff
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Eddy, I had a nightmare last night a halfpenny covered in tar. So I will be spending some money. Geoff
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Eddy, I had a nightmare last night a halfpenny covered in tar. So I will be spending some money. Geoff
:hehe :hehe You know it makes sense Geoff :)
Eddy
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I'm not really that mean it's just I like to make very thing myself. I will need gratings on the bridge as well, Thanks for straightening me out. Geoff
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...I like to make everything myself...
I always look out for 'rubbish' that could have a modelling use (I work for a local council in a 'rubbish clearance' type of job so there's no shortage of it) just last week I found a discarded piece of junk jewelery, a 'belcher' chain I believe it's called but this was cheap steel, chrome plated and had gone very rusty - perfect for that little used anchor chain!
But I digress....for gratings, the styrene flyscreen in a type of ventilation panel would be ideal, a bit large for my model (I'm using it anyway) but should be perfect in yours...
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That looks good, But you have found something I don't have in my rubbish. That must be a first. Geoff
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Lucky me! you can still buy them (here in the UK at least) in hardware shops - and they're about the most inexpensive item you could find, they look like this dusty spiderweb-covered example in my house...
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Oh those!! do you know I might just have one some were? I have fixed hundreds of them, I was a chippy what a pain the screw holes are all ways to near the hole you are trying to cover. Geoff
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Been in the machine shop to day. Had to make a piece for the door handle on the car. So while I was there I made the parts for the feed pump. P1.
Derek I know you are keeping your eye on me, Could P2 be serious?
One thing that I think can spoil a great model is a strait joint across a planked deck. Why not go diagonal as P3. The piece that covers the screws is the wrong way around, this just wedges in afterwards. When screwed down the joint is almost invisible. Geoff.
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Geoff rats are only supposed to desert a sinking ship, this one hasn't even touched the water yet, so I can only assume it must be a lemming :hehe
Eddy
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This trick with the planked deck is the same as I did in 1975 on my PS Diessen.
Andy
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Hi PD's....... & RGY says...... "Derek I know you are keeping your eye on me" ,....well this correct :whistle ......but from what I see.... :nono I do suspect a BIG false RAT is :vacation in the foc'';sle on board the DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE build :ranting
Keep up the good work....we do enjoy the build..........Derek :beer
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Had to have false rat the real ones are the quick for me.
Kim asked a wile back what are the knobbly pits on the port side. I have come to the conclusion they are fixing points for gallows brackets, which hold the first section of the gangplank. I reached this conclusion as in all the photos I have seen, it is at the same angle. This would be fitted at the dock before a trip with a beach landing. Only the outer section is movable, by means of the block and tackle probably fixed to a ring bolt way back in the deck. The vertical pole in the center would make contact with the fixed section, so preventing outer section falling back beyond the center of gravity. So not difficult to operate by one servo. Any alternative ideas. Geoff
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P1 Started the plating, would look better with the shiny side out, but paint will stick to the printing better.
P2 Bulwarks forward fitted. The polyurethane glue will be cut off when fully set.
P3 Bulwarks aft, lucky the samson posts enable me to join the stern section. This will have to be laminated.
P4 Using plastic for the sponsons, just because I had some. Note the sponsons are hollow apart from saving wight there is a more important reason. On my other paddler the paddle box protrudes above the deck, so there is only 1/4" clearance around the wheel. If I open the regulator (steam powered) to quickly water squirts out the vents. not very scale effect. So this time as much space around the wheel as possible. As an aside, when I was building the Glen Usk (P & A Campbell ship) I meet a 2nd engineer who sailed on her. His regular ship was the Bristol Queen, on her the paddle boxes where plated in, as on the Cardiff Queen and the Ravenswood. The company thought it looked modern! He has passed away so he won't get in trouble, if I tell what he used to be done when not carrying passenger. The internal doors in the paddle boxes would be opened, with a gain in speed of two to three knots. The paddle acting as a compressor. An other story, Glen Usk was kept on the Weston - Cardiff run, coaling at Cardiff of course ,. When she had to do the a trip down to Ilfracombe there was so much dust in the bottom of the bunker , great difficulty was experienced in maintaining steam pressure, just managing to crawl into Cardiff in time to beat the tide. Geoff
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I forgot to say the insides of the bulwarks have had three coats of off white paint. Stanchions will be painted black before fixing. Geoff
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Coming along nicely Geoff... Are the bulwarks the correct height though? They seem very high in the photos, or maybe it's just an optical illusion?
Regards
Eddy
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Well spotted Eddy they are indeed. At the samson post 1/16" higher this was the only place I could be sure of getting is spot on, The plan is to cut a groove in the hand rail, for a good fixing, almost impossible to glue it to the top of thine ply. In the bottom photo is can be seen over a 1,4 " higher than the sponson plating, this will be planed off with a razor plane. I will have a problem with Elf & Safety, the elf will be hear so it safer out of the work shop. Geoff.
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Elf gone, P1. Fixed bulwarks at stern. P2. A faint line inside bulwarks shows cut down point. Temporary balsa pieces to see if the paddle boxes where right. Learnt that from Stuart. P3 Inside sponson showing clearance a round wheels. Geoff
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coming along nicely there Geoff. ;D
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I thought I would have to buy a gas tank. I didn't fancy making one. But having a mock up I found I can just get a half size canister in under the steps. The tap will protrude enough for it to be turned off with out removing hatches. The water jacket at the base of the funnel came from the top of a spray can. Had the mock up to see how things are going, as I am not using plans as such. Looking like the Duke now. geoff
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Hi PD's....not sure here RGY :sorry ...but placing the gas tank @ approx 45 degrees from the horizontal would provide you with hydrocarbon liquid draw off in lieu of expanded gas ..... a102 41 ....Derek
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Hi Geoff
things are progressing well - keep it up!
I have to agree with Derek though - you really need to get that tank verticle if you can - is there any where else you can squeeze it in?
All the best
stuart
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Thanks for the warning, I was worried about this. So it was the first thing I checked. This is a brand new canister and not a drop of liquid came out when the tap was turned on. As for progress Stuart,as you know it is the details that take the time, and that's whats left. I have been neglecting other work for a while. Geoff
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Glad it checked out OK Geoff - but have you tried a little gentle rocking to simulate movement when you are sailing the model. If the liquid in the can moves around it could vent into the outlet pipe? just a thought!
Glad you are on to the detail - you're right it takes forever and you don't see any progress till the end.
All the best
Stuart
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Had another look at the gas canister! It was at 60 degrees, through it did look like 45 in the photo. Did a bit of fettling to a frame ( butchered it right out) now the canister is at 85 degrees, so will be OK. Might have to make the steps removable to get to the tap though. Geoff
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mmmmmmmmm PS's....I can see an isolicies triangle depicted there RGY...but only on the axis of the gas discharge threaded tube..... :c002
But if you increase the base angle to 85 degrees from the horizontal you must exacerbate the potential for :06 - Derek
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Right thank you Derek. Geoff :angel
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Unfortunately I had sent for the grating kits before mick told me about the fly screen trick. So I have to use them :-[ anyway they look OK. Couldn't cover the entire stern in grating as there has to be a davit there. this was used when beach landing to retrieve the kedge. The black spot on the deck is the posision of the capstan. Still plodding on with the plating. I am using impact adhesive, the trick is let it dry don't be in to much hurry. Have another job going at the same time. If any edges lift I run a little super glue in under and holed it down till stuck. Geoff
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nice use of the empties, a good excuse to the better half. "Sorry Honey i have to drink for the free model plating." :whistle
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... If Carlsberg did paddlers
Comming together Geoff, wooden gratings do look more realistic and nicely done.
Cheers,
Kim
I'll get my coat ... ;D
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Flushed with the success of the gratings. I am contemplating constructing the bridge deck and walkway around the funnel with them. Just like on SS Great Britain. This can't be seen from photos I have. But I think it will be in character. As Duke is a very old fashioned design. Even for 1896. Geoff
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I am looking for stanchions at 35mm high 1,2,3, hole no problem 3 hole plus handrail no joy. anyone help? Geoff
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I am looking for stanchions at 35mm high 1,2,3, hole no problem 3 hole plus handrail no joy. anyone help? Geoff
Yup, no problem.... James Lane...
JAMES LANE (Display Models)
30 Broadway
Blyth
Northumberland
NE24 2PP
I don't have a phone number handy, sorry....
Regards
Eddy
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James Lane telephone number: 01670-352051
Regards
Eddy
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Thank you Eddy. I did have this number and had rung it a few times over the last week, but was unable to get a response. However I have just placed my order. Geoff
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The cost of this boat is getting out of control. £119 for the boiler, £20 engine, £5 balsa, £16.50 grating, £36.50 stanchions, £15 glue. Beer, cider and larger £70. Total so far £282.
No construction for a time.
Sailed Glen Usk yesterday, last sail 9 months ago. Couldn't get steam up, so I thought then the safety valve blow. The pressure gauge wasn't working! apart from that a good day.
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Hi D's....goodness RGY...only £70 for Beer, cider and larger... :a102 you must be near tea-total :06 .....Derek
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Yes and the wife drank most of that :'(Geoff
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Derek this is the only model use I found for whiskey ;D bottles. geoff
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A use is still a use and therefore an excuse, sorry reason for having to drink.
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Hi Geoff,
Here is one that not only would give use all a pint, but provides lots of material.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Am I on the right thread? I did sobered up enough to get an hour in the work shop. I have solved the problem of the gratings around the funnel. turned up the edgings on the lathe.When finished the baase will becut away. GEOFF
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Away again, not with the fairies I hope. Before I go one more post. One half of the hull plating is complete. I will not be plating the bulwarks as the ply is strong enough. Were as the balsa is not. The paint tin is holding the chart house together as the glue dries. The bent strips of metal will be the stantions (zink from our roof! it has been replaced with lead. might need some of that for ballast later.) Geoff
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Do you overlap tyhe plating at the join Geoff - or is it not neccessary?
All the best
Stuart
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Yes Stuart on the length I do lap about 1/8th inch. This will show as on your latest. But on the ends butt joints as they would be joined by a strap internally with a flush riveted hull. Could be joggled I suppose. I know you know that Stuart. Geoff
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Back to work. P1 Cutting the walkway grating from its former. P2 Just needs rubbing down and staining. P3 My method for sticking the plates cover the area of the plate on the hull with adhesive. P4 Then push the plate on to it. stick one edge down with masking tape. P5 Lift up using the tape as a hinge, check the whole area is covered. I do several at once. Then go and do something else for 20 minutes or more, come back and turn them down, pressing hard. P6 If a plate needs shaping I do this first, in this case a plate for the keel. Geoff
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Do you use contact adhesive, epoxy, or something else Geoff?
Regards
Eddy
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Impact adhesive mostly but 5min epoxy on the bow, Eddy. Both from the pound shop. I did see on this site someone saying the epoxy was no GOOD. I have found the brand in local cheep shop OK, but it needs a day or two to really set. If an edge lifts I run super glue in under.Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
I have had problems with the fast set epoxy (5 min.), in that prolonged exposure to water turned it gummy and no longer waterproof. I have not had this problem with the slower setting type (20 min. and longer). Do you just use Beer cans or do you use pop cans too?
Regards,
Gerald.
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Any aluminium can will do Gerald. I only use steel if I want to solder them .Geoff
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The reason I use beer cans as opposed to soft drink cans. Size maters not that I'm an alcoholic. P1!! P2 Just to prove it, a coke can. Note the brass channel to save the bow if I lose control. another 99p. P3 Almost finished the plating. 176 pieces. Anyone spot the mistake?? Geoff
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anyone spot the mistake??
An easy one that Geoff...... There's a washing machine in the background and not a woman in sight to operate it :a102
Eddy
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...Anyone spot the mistake??...
is the port sponson house upside down?
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No to both answers. Eddy, I try to keep the wife out of the workshop if I can. Geoff
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is it that the plates appear to be overlapped like in (a) when they should be like in (b)?
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Getting very warm Mick. The plates are lapped as in B. All the way up sometimes an inner-outer will be fitted at the turn of the bulge, depending on the number of strakes. Geoff
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Finished the plating at last! The mistake is, I started plating from the stern on the front section and the keel and gar board strake on the aft section, which is correct. Then for some unknown reason I started at the front of the aft section? Perhaps I was afraid of the double curve. I had original planed on making the top half of the sponsons removable, to facilitate the removal of the wheels, but I find they come out OK with it fixed. Had a mock up to see if she looks right. See below.Geoff
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4 view's of the engine room. Feed pump completed & pipe work installed, bypass valve & stop valve. The stop valve will be shut when the boiler is brought up to pressure, as the clack only works when there is pressure in the boiler. Steam feed pipe insulated. The silicone pipe came out of the washing machine, (old one). Control servo will just fit port aft corner, X marks the spot. As an experiment the condenser I plan on fitting around the base of the funnel. I hope it will get hot enough to steam off the water and may be turn the oil into smoke.Geoff
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Hi PD's.....thanks for sharing Geoff....many of us like the bolts & nuts of steam builds :hammer
Getting oil back into the funnel has the potential to literally drop down into the boiler & create hot spots :shhh Derek
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I didn't explain the separator correctly did I Derek. First it is NOT a condenser, I was expecting you to tell me about that. It will consist of a container around the funnel, this will separate the liquid from the vapor, the vapor will then exit at the top of the funnel. I then hope the liquid will evaporate and go up the small diameter pipe to the top of the funnel. The separator works by having the the exit pipe at a sharp angle to the inlet, the liquid can't turn as quick as the vapor, so falls to the bottom of the container. Typing this has given me a idea perhaps I will cut a hole in the boiler case, then the bottom plate of the container will be hot. Thanks Derek. Geoff
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OK PD's ....we can all take a joke :a102 ...but why has RGY left his three nuts exposed in his photograph 004.jpg
:41 :16 :tongue1 ....
Many moons ago I spoke with Sandy Campbell about the potential of adding a squirt of sump oil into my ACS VB2 boiler ....he was not impressed with my :shoot :sorry :c002 thoughts ........Derek
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My nuts are bigger than that Derek. OK not by much. A lot of saw dust to! must stop scratching my head. All this has to come out for the boiler test, I have resolved the difficulty with the club tester. (originally said he could not test an own design). NO oil will enter the boiler it will stay in the separator unless it gets burnt off, when it will exit out the exhaust, not into the boiler. You know the problem on a hot day very little steam shows at the funnel, just trying to make a gas fired smoke machine, if this is successful oil could be added to the separator before the voyage. Geoff
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Fitted the water supply tank. The razor blade, my neighbour just gave me a thousand should be enough to last me. No Derek I'm not cutting my throat yet. Geoff
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Hi PD's...... :whistle RGY....in jpg 004 from a few days back ..... :hammer we see the boiler feed pump with my guess of 80 mm unsupported stroke length of say 3 mm diameter rod :crash
Are you concerned with rod buckling considering you will be pumping against say 2.6 Bar x multiplied by the diameter of the piston = :picknose ....... :a102 ......
Keep posting...we love steam engine builds.......Derek ...... :beer
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Well observed Derek 90mm + 2.8mm but only 1.75 bar, as 25 psi will be the pressure in the boiler. don't ask me to find the area of the piston at 1/4 inch diameter and then divide into 1 sq inch and then divide into the 25 lbs. far to complicated for me, :-\ I'm only an old carpenter. As for the rod it's a very special steel, a knitting needle and if the wife can't bend it it must be OK. Geoff
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Made a start on the superstructure, Must be as light as possible. Balsa sub deck to be planked, chart house balsa covered with mahogany veneer, and lemonade bottle glass. Changed the engine room vents, half a table tennis ball on a tube. Geoff
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As Stuart said in his thread, Its gone quiet here again. So a few photos of the deck houses. Marking out the balsa. cut into strips and glue in window bars and plastic bottle glass. Cover with veneer then add frames, veneer strips. The spandrels of the stairs just cover the top of the gas canister. Our bowling season starts this week end, so progress will slow. Geoff
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As Stuart said in his thread, Its gone quiet here again. So a few photos of the deck houses.
Yes it does go quiet from time to time Geoff, so any posts are VERY welcome!
The spandrels of the stairs just cover the top of the gas canister.
You aren't kidding when you say just are you!
Our bowling season starts this week end, so progress will slow. Geoff
I thought bowling was always slow! :hehe
Eddy
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Hi Geoff,
"Our bowling season starts this week end" What type of Bowling is it?
Regards,
Gerald.
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looking good, i like the window frames
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Eddy, Flat green not crown which I am guessing you play up north. I play on the sea front at TEIGNMOUTH it's our centenary year this year. We get about 30 touring teams visit us plus all the local games. I will be playing 140 matches, at least, and if I get through rounds more than that. That is if I can stand the strain. On most Sundays I act as my sons mehcanic, he races moter cycal enduo. So I dont think the Duke will be finished in time for the PADDLE DAY. But I'm not giving up yet. Geoff
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No, don't give up Geoff, there's still 5 months to go.....
You seem to have all the basics done now, so hopefully it will come together quicker than you think!
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy, NO never give up.
Ian, here are more windows. Starting with the balsa blank I stick the glass and veneer on with impact adhesive. I had enough of them to day, so I went into the engineering room, and made a tabernacle for the mast. I don't know if the original had one, more likely went through the deck. but I want to lower the mast for transport. A trick I employ when silver soldering is to hold the parts together with fire cement. As its heated it sets and is easily chipped of after. The hearth is thermalite building blocks there reflect the heat not absorb it. Geoff
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Finished the stair. Having made a few stair cases in my working life this one was quite simple, as there are no risers. I glued 3 strips of 1/16 ply together at one edge. Marking out on the unstuck side of the strip, cut out. The strips are then glued to the ceiling of the stair which would be underneath, and glue on the treads. This section is resting on a ledge and is removable, so the gas can be turned off with out removing the rest of the superstructure. Lower photo shows the superstructure removed, Good access is most important with a working steam model. Geoff
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I hope your going to build some paddleboxes onto the model Geoff or you'll have a bit more water than you intended both in and around the steam plant! :hehe
Eddy
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looking good, I'm sure Eddy that Geof would not have had such an oversight. ;D
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Eddy, thanks for the warning!! this will be one of the last jobs before painting. I plan on extending the sides of the hull up to the boat deck. So to leave maximum space around the wheels. Can't fit sides until the machinery is fitted after boiler test, in May.
Ian, I am glad someone has faith in me. Geoff
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Eddy, thanks for the warning!!
Geoff, you should be used to my silly sense of humour by now! ;D
Eddy
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Eddy, I was being facetious, good job there's a spell checker. My sense of humor is worse than yours. Geoff
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Made the bulwark stantions, could have bought small brass angle. But I am too careful for that. So cut 1/4" strips of zinc off a sheet that came off our roof. Held it in the vice and tapped it over forming the angle, cleaned up the face with a file and center punched 4 rivets. Marks on the vice the spacing is consistent. Spray painted black before fixing as the bulwarks are off white. On the over view the thick lines mark the position of the rails. As Consul the rail moved to the outside of the sponsons and the deck saloon extended the full width of the ship. Geoff
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Fixed funnel, small level on deck and one upright at stern. Rear level has to be in line with funnel or the rake on the funnel will not give a true line. Geoff
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Last post for a wile off on holiday!!!! Must remember to clean the windows. Geoff
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Building bits and pieces with my own light ply (1/6" balsa & veneer). My construction method can be seen below, I fit the sides into the hole, then fit the other side and top. Next I will remove from model and simulate the paneling and add other details. Also started on the life boats. I have used cereal box before, this is the first time with veneer? We will see. Just fitted the gar board strakes. Turned up the bollards, left a nipple to fit in hole in ply base. Marked out the steps to the bridge deck. ( the formula, twice the rise + the going should be near 27"). Lastly I had to jig up the bridge wing to see how it looked. Geoff.
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Still progressing nicely Geoff.... I thought you were on holiday? So when did you get the time to do all of that?
There's still more than 4 months till Paddler Day, so there's hope yet! ;)
Eddy
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Eddy, I have been back three days. The boss has been unpacking, washing and cleaning. So I have been free to go in the workshop and continue with the thoughts I had on holiday. I have also prepared the boiler for the engineering club test day on Sunday, so fingers crossed. Geoff
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Welcome back Geoff,
She is coming along nicely and i like your idea for home made lightply.
Best of luck with your Boiler test .
Regards,
Kim
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Thanks, Kim always nice to go away but better to get home.
A lot of work left Eddy as you know its the little bits that take the time. But another mile stone is past, all the deck planks are down, just need some ends trimmed, scraping and varnish. The weights port side holding down the last board, the other weight is to balance the model on the pillow.Geoff
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As a new member I have been reading your thread R. G. Y. very interesting and good workmanship, the planking should look really nice
Alan
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Thanks Alan, always good to know some one is looking. Geoff
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we are watching aren't we PD's....... :whistle :gathering .. :towel. :tongue1 ....but ..... :shhh RGY ......Derek
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I had better be careful ???more looking than I thought. Sad news had a pin hole in an end cap joint. So the boiler failed this time, but the good news repaired and I can test again soon.
Stairs going together OK. The intermediate treads will be slid in when glue set. Much easier than trying to get them all correct in one go. Geoff
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Sliding the treads into the precut groves. Then proped into position just to check they fit. Geoff must brush up some of that saw dust.
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People say about modelers you must have a lot of patience. Not so I always have more than one job progressing at once, some times 5 or 6. When I get feed up with one I go to another. So today back to the life boats. I started using veneer for the strakes, but had to think again as the veneer kept splitting. I could have backed it up with paper, to help strengthen it. Finding some .75mm ply in my stock I decided to start again. In Model Boats Mag; recently appeared a article on clinker construction. This builder had multiple frames and straight planks, not the way a full size punt is made at all. The only straight planks are the first and last, at the bilge the planks are bowed quite considerably. When the gar board strake is fixed a straight batten is laid on the frames, (only normally 3 in number,) and measurements take. The next plank is marked from this, it will then lie naturally to the shape of the boat, without undue pressure. This is illustrated below along with one I made for a pilot cutter 3/4" = 1ft. and I promise they will float. Geoff
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Very impressive Geoff, at least I now know who to call on when I need a clinker dinghy building! :hehe
Eddy
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No problem Eddy NICE if it will be 1ft=1ft. Geoff
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Looking good as always. ;D
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Ian, For a second I thought your post was, who knows, who cares. Then I saw the message. Thanks, some times things look better in a photo some times worse. Below the finished deck house, just need cardboard cut out passengers to go inside. Also the slatted deck below the life boats, no prizes for guessing where the free wood came from.
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Looking at the deck above, the varnish appears rough well it is in its present state. Sometimes you can have a happy accident. In this case I used some old yacht varnish just to fill the pores in the wood and joints between the planks. I then scraped the surface, in places the reddish remains of the varnish can be seen. I think a clear matt coat on top will look good. This has happened to me before, when two paints reacted against each other. See the hull of my sailing trawler. Just right for a working boat. Geoff
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....See the hull of my sailing trawler. Just right for a working boat....
That's a superb bit of weathering, looks just like some of the boats at old leigh... 8)
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Mick , as I said just a happy accident.
Eddy, I know you have been having sleepless nights worrying about no paddle boxes and the duke sinking, here is one of the said boxes. They will be painted then stuck on using bath silicone as the last job. It wouldn't be my first sinking, this was at the Weymouth International Boat festival. How embarrassing, don't tell anyone.
The life boats almost finished, just clean up and add the false keel, stem, stern post and rudder. If the planks are cut to the right shape, only 4 clamps are needed to hold 2 planks until set.
Photos of the chair which will provide the handrails. already bent to the right shape. Geoff
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Nice job Geoff.....
It must have taken an age to find chair arms/legs with exactly the right curve for the boat though! :hehe
Regards
Eddy
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No just luck again Eddy, and a neighbour moving out. Going to live in Ukraine, Should be far enough away from the sawing and hammering. He didn't through the chair at me . Geoff
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The life boats pass their test, kitchen sink makes a change. Its not often my models will even fit in the bath.
I see in lifeboat post someone is looking for a hull??Geoff
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The life boats pass their test, kitchen sink makes a change. Its not often my models will even fit in the bath. Geoff
BATH???? You mean Test Tank surely? ;)
Eddy
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Searchlight up and running. turned on the lathe out of ali rod. The lamp is an ordinary halogen 12volt 10watt, as used in domestic cabinet down lighting. Works as can be seen on 6volt nicad pack. Geoff
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More little bits, 2 capstans tuned up from broom stick. After painting black, string dipped in silver paint pulled around, to simulate were. 2 vents made for the ends of the forward skylight, also made on the lathe. All shown on deck by the boat cradles also new. Geoff
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Some were on paddleducks some one was asking about rudder quadrants. Mine consist of a cut down pulley ex Walkman and the cord from a computer scanner. The rudder is not connected in the photo. Geoff
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Hello Geoff, a most interesting use of compensating springs there. That is one idea that I've not seen used before. Does therudder have any ill-effects from having the opportunity to flex albeit a little when under way ?
cheers
Jim
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Jim, the springs are quite strong so I have not experienced any adverse effects in previous models. You will notice there have been stretched to adjust the tension. The reason I use them is to prevent damage during transport, as the rudder linkage can be strained, on a large model in a small car, with out a little play in the system. Geoff
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Hi Geoff, a most ingenious method. I commend you on the ingenuity. On the point of large model small car i assure oyu the next car I buy WILL bwe measured before I decide if the boot space is sufficient. A cracking build that you've done there.
cheers
Jim
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Jim, Sorry I had been on the Zumerset zider yesterday and forgot to mention the main reason for the springs. The cord must be kept tight on the quadrant so it stays in the grove. Glad you are enjoying the thread. Geoff with a headache.
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Just taken photos of the presant state of play.
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Looking good. I wish I had your patience. :)
Ken
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Thanks Ken, Great when someone takes the time to post a comment. As I have said before I don't have a lot of patience. Each item is a project on its own and I can't wait to complete each project. At the moment I'm just making a kit. Before long I have a complete model. A year is not so long when you get older. Geoff.
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Looking very good there, i still have to smile everytime i see the beer can hull.
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Ian, It was not the cans that made me smile.
Now here's a tricky job bending the rails. I ma using electric cable, after removing the insulation of course. It is a little soft but cost nothing. Geoff
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Just had a catch up of this thread, really fascinating build. Loving the unusual methods you use, very inovative, and the model is lookign great for it!
Looking forward to seeing it finished, esp to see how the hull plating looks painted....
Thanks for sharing the build, cheers Andy :-D
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Hull painting is coming as soon as the hand rails are fixed, 2 more to make. One side of the bridge rails in position (temporary). I will remove them for painting. Very up and down, the holes are different depths and the stanchions different lengths. Plan on turning up small base plates to control the height. This will enable me to elongate the holes for some adjustment if wanted. Geoff
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Half hour play to day. Made some turnbukels 8BA left & right hand thread. Brazing rod for the screws, 3/16th hexagonal brass for boady. Turn down the rod then tap, file a flat where the thrad ends, drill 1.5mm hole and part off. Sorry about the photos can't get it any better need a new camera. I have marked the left hand end with a cut. Geoff
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Nice to see her progressing Geoff.
Well done!
All the best
stuart
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yes it is, I watch all the construction threads with interest :)
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Thanks Stuart & Mick always good to have encouragement. Unfortunately not to well last few days. Despite the rumors I do have a hart but it is playing up at the moment. So I have to rest hence the lack of progress. Plus I have broken my left hand tap!!! Geoff
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Left hand tap arrived and I've finished all the left hand threads. When I was drilling the 1.8mm holes in the lathe I just use hand pressure on the tail stock, and pull the drill back out to clear swarfe, by sliding tail stock back. Saves a lot of winding. I took to big a bite and the chuck fell out and snapped the drill!!! I tried to tap after drilling a 1.7mm hole bang goes the tap!
Started the grab lines on the life boats. First I soak thin cord in weak P.V.A. and rap it around a metal bar to dry. Cut it off and it will form a natural full when stuck on the boat. Geoff
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Life boats just have to paint the canvas green. Well the cooking foil this has a coat of P.V.A.so is quite strong. The weigh of each just under 1oz ( I think 35kg?) as I have said before paddlers need to be light.
The skylight with seats for the forward saloon.
Finished the turnbuckles. Unless I decide to install a mast on the boat deck, as in some early photos.
Bottom photo shows a base plate on a stanchion. Only 96 more to make. Geoff
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Turnbuckles.
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Looking good there, very nice job. note to self, must get my lathe dusted down.
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Yes Ian. use mine almost every day for something. Now do I need a mill I should have bought one a lot sooner,. Geoff
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The life boats just need a coat of matt varnish on the canvas.
Mast is finished, Turned the bell, belaying pins, truck and the collars on the lathe. First I measure the mast at the point the collar is required. Then drill this size a hole in a brass rod, turn down as thin as possible. Center pop for the holes using the jaws of the chuck for the spacing, drill 1.5mm holes and part off. Four required all different sizes and hole spacings. Brass wire is bent for the eyelets. Slide collars down from the top until tight, sand the mast if they don't go down far enough, drill 1.5 in to mast, fit eyelets with super glue. Fit truck to top of mast, note two 1mm holes for flag halyard. Geoff
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In the photos above the pipe cleaner man is there checking on the scale. Geoff
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I did say I was going to paint the hull when the handrails had been fixed. No!! I had intended to install the portholes after painting as I normally do, but I can't reach right up into the bow to seal them. Any way the handrails around main deck in place. The shot of the door in the bulwarks is where the hull splits in two. Geoff
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A shot of the bridge supports. The rails have to aline with the stanchions. Note the base plates. My method for making base plates, drill a hole through the center of rod, run the parting off tool in at intervals, then saw off using a razor saw. The rod in the photo is 1/8" for the hand rail stanchions.Geoff
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I had a lot of difficulty with the knuckle ( I think that's what the half round moldings are called! anyone know better?) around the sponson. Like Stuart in his Connaught build, I had the paddle box the wrong height. OK now. Geoff
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Nice work.
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kno3, complements make it all worth while.
Had a little sailing yesterday. No repairs this time, getting a 1/48 scale paddler, 1/12 scale pilot cutter and 1/20 sailing trawler into a me'gane is very tight.
Finished the entrance to the "ladies". Doors to hang ( tape) sliding hatch removed for varnishing. My method of fixing the framing and panels on the wood work. Is to varnish the base veneer and the back of the framing and panelling, place together using a pointed stick then varnish allover. As soon as it dries coat again for the varnish will still be wet between the veneers. The outer surface has to be kept wet so the veneer will not lift at the edges. 100 base plates for the hand rail stanchions, these will be stuck on and the stanchions trimmed to length, and the railing can be removed as a whole for painting. Geoff
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What are those tiny beads for?
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The beads are the base plates as above. Around about a 100 in the pot another 20 still on my workshop floor somewhere! The stanchions are made like split pins and to remove them for painting they have to be held together. The idea of the varnish as a glue is two jobs at once. Geoff
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kno3, I hope this photo explains the beads. As the deck is only 3mm in places they control the height of the stanchions as well as hold them together. Geoff
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Yes, thank you.
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Earlier in the thread I said I though the bulwarks had been lined with match board, as no stanchions could be seen on the older photos. But later they could. I have gone with public opinion. Geoff
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Started making hinges 16 required. These are the largest beside a 10 pence. Fitted to the bulwark come platform for the on board beach landing arrangement. The smallest made so far 2.5mm square closed. Will be shown when I have made them all. Geoff
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Could you post a how-to for the hinges or some detailed pics? Very nice work.
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That's a great little touch there, especially with those hinges
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Hinges. Cut a strip of brass shim approximately 15mm wide. Next cut a 1.5mm outside diameter tube 10mm longer than the shim. This is so solder won't capillarate into the tube. Apply the flux and fix down on a thermal builders brick, using fire cement. Small pieces of silver solder are placed next to the tube, not to much. Soft solder is no good as it will melt when grinding the groves. I now use a "Unimat" lathe to grind the groves, but I have done it by hand with a "Dremal". Apart from being more accurate in the lathe, if the tube is uppermost the grinder will bend the shim slightly allowing the finished hinge to close together tighter. Cut the shim to the size required, fit a dress makers pin into the tube cut off the end and secure with super glue (gel type only on the end of pin). The final two photo shows a 7mm hinge for the handrail and 4mm for the bulwark door (two required for each door). Where hinges aren't working a small length of tube stuck on the joint is all that wanted. Geoff
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Open and shut, and the reason why. Geoff
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Made parts for the davits and falls, These will not be fixed permanently until the hull is painted. P1 turning the ball ends. P2 drill before parting off. P3 pulley wheel for sheaves. P4 kit of parts . P5 completed pulleys. P6 davit in position, note pulley on the top to lift gang plank. Geoff
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I am most disappointed no one has asked how I made the metal pulleys. I was quite proud of them yesterday. But not today I will have to make some more. In the mean time the sponson braces, something often forgotten. As the model is lifted by the sponsons they have been punched through the hull. epoxy and filler will hide the mess. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Please do show us your methods for making the pulleys. Enjoying seeing how you make all the small bits & fittings.
Clark
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Will do Clark, it doesn't take much to twist my arm. Hopefully I'll make a better job this time. Geoff
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....the sponson braces, something often forgotten. As the model is lifted by the sponsons they have been punched through the hull. epoxy and filler will hide the mess. Geoff
That's pretty much how I do them, too ;D
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I had looked at the pulleys and thought they looked neat, but between Canada Day and helping the wife at her office didn't get a chance to post. Please do show.
Regards,
Gerald.
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are we talking about the items in PICT0064.JPG? it would be useful to see how you made those, yes please.... :)
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Yes PICT0064. Will be starting the new pulleys 6th or 7th July. Mark 2 version should be better. Racing & bowling in the mean time. Geoff
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actually, not meaning to be picky but is your method able to make double pulleys? all the ones I've seen have two pulleys in the block (and the plastic ones I bought also do...)
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Mick, pick away by all means most welcome. I will be making double pulleys this time. On the falls the rope will be fix to the lower pulley, go up around the top, down around the lower, then over the top and down to the cleat. One double and one single on each fall. Pictures of pulleys which belonged to my grandfather. The single is on the washing line. Geoff
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Metal pulleys on the life boats in this case and wooden blocks on the anchor davits. Geoff
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Here is a shot of the hull split in half, The aft sponson supports are fixed to a separate strip of ply.
Now the pulleys mk 2. I start with a 3/8" square brass rod. Drill 3 by 1.5mm holes 2 on opposite corners and 1 in the center. Then grind off the corners without the holes, to the shape of the pulleys. I mount the rod in the tool post and cut 1.5mm slices off with a slitting saw. The pulley wheels are tuned from aluminium rod. A brass side plate is positioned on an aluminium plate and the holes drilled through. The reason for aluminium will become clear later. The boss has just hit the dinner gong. end of play for today. Geoff
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Drilled 2 by 3mm holes in the aluminium plate. I changed the nail pins for brass, and soft solder over both external plates. Cut off the excess plate, cleaned up with a file, job done. Of course the aluminium pulley wheels don't stick to the solder and still rotate. As this was a prototype I will now make smaller ones.Geoff
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As this was a prototype I will now make smaller ones
Cor, well done Geoff. Watching with interest as I might have a go myself. Thanks for showing us.
Ken
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Starting with 1/4inch square this time. Geoff
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OK.... PD's .....I have had a few words :gathering ......with colleagues & we will be watching RGY
0.375"x0.375"= 0.14 sq"
0.250"x0.250"= 0.06 sq"
So 0.14 - 0.06 sq" X by the specific gravity of BS1400 LG2 = a possible 1/128 of an egg cup less chips.....
But be rest assured....... we will be watching with interest RGY :tongue1 ......Derek
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Still watching Derek. Oh dear, I will have to be very careful. What I post. I wish I was as clever as you and could post using the funny faces. :s_cool Have I managed it. Geoff
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Yes I managed a face. Derek just for you a shot of the chips The egg is on my face. As I only have 5/16th square brass. The finished item is a lot nearer scale size. P2. Geoff
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All the pulleys made so far (except the one made from 5/16th) are going into stock, may come in one day. Modified the production method slightly, :crash Increasing the size of the pivot pin so it won't bend when the ends are riveted over, this will hold it all together for soldering. The reason for the packing, the jaws wouldn't close over far enough. Geoff
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Hi Geoff, I wish that I had more hats! Then I'd be able to take them off to you everytime you post a photo of your excellent micro engineering. Well done sir! :clap :bravo :clap :great Now you deserve a :coffee or a :vacation
cheers
Jim
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No rest for the wicked :ranting!! I have not neglected the model wile playing on the lathe. Nothing like a photo to show the discrepancies in the railings. have to bend them and take another photo. Davits fitted painted, not fixed Have to paint the hull soon. Time is running out only 2 months to go. Geoff
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That's the trouble with photos Geoff, they can either make a model look fantastic or rubbish - Most of mine make them look rubbish :(
I do hope you'll get it finished in time for Paddler Day, and you can make the trip up.....
Regards
Eddy
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Yes Eddy if the Duke can't make the water. I could still come up and display only. I can sail the Glen Usk. It all depends if the management fancies a weekend away. She usually jumps at the chance. Says she never goes anywhere and I spend all my time in the cellar.Geoff
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I have to mention the management again, as I can ignore the list of jobs no longer. So the time in the workshop will be taken by these for a wile. I did manage to look out some old block blanks I made for one of my sail boats. Geoff
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Managed one block ready to part off.Geoff :coffee
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Hi R.G.Y.,
very well done that man. I haven't had a lathe for the past 5 years, and sort of restricts what one can do, so just going to have to buy another.
Your posts and build I follow with great interest. Its these little details your doing which set the model off so well
Keep up the good work
cheers
kiwi
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kiwi, thanks for looking. Yes a lathe is a very good investment for a modeler. I use mine most days. I cut the block from the blank it fell on the floor, I stept back right on it. So no photo and no block. Have to start again. :oopsGeoff
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Shes looking good Geoff :bravo , pitty about the block being in contact with your foot.
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Having a rest from blocks back with the pulleys. Threading them up in a jig (2 panel pins driven into the bench). Using shearing elastic, as they will have to stretch, when the tops of the davits are removed to in-turn remove the boat deck. Geoff
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Have been sneaking little jobs in between the managements list.
The reinforcement around the hawser and mooring rope holes. Round hole turned on the lathe, no problem. But the oval solution I was quite proud of, see the photos. Drill hole in dowel cut off slice on angle then cut in half turn one half over and glue back together. Geoff
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that's a good trick, will have to add it to all the rest you and others have provided here. :c017
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Geoff, I do like that idea... she really is taking shape.
Regards
Kim
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Started a job I dislike the rails. :-\ This is my method, first I drill the holes for the stanchions. Then bend a wire to fit the holes. I then duplicate the wire as many times as required. Threading the stanchions onto the top wire and into there positions, followed by the lower wires. Next place the base plates on the bottom to hold the split together. Place all in position in the holes, straiten and carefully dab super glue on the joints. Remove paint and replace. Any one know a better way there must be. :respect In the final photo I have added the kicking boards and canvas dodgers. The dodgers made from cooking foil . Geoff
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I would never have thought of using cooking foil for the dodgers Geoff. I have to say it looks surprisingly realistic!
Regards
Eddy
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Nice looking rails.
the way i do mine is completely off model. i draw an outline on a board and drill the holes according to where they will be on the boat. cut the wire to length and glue the stanchion's in. then i bend the wire and stanchion's as one.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/Envoy/th_45015d9c.jpg) (http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/Envoy/?action=view¤t=45015d9c.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/Envoy/th_e4976061.jpg) (http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/Envoy/?action=view¤t=e4976061.jpg)
the other option i sometimes use is to glue the starting stantion and all the wires on and then add on stanchion at a time gluing and bending as i go. i find this works well for me on tight multiple bends.
As they say, no one way is right or wrong. just what works for the individual.
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:c017 Thanks Ian I will try this next time. Geoff
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One problem with your method Ian, the stairs? But I do like the life belt holders.
More photos to check the alignment of the stanchions and rails. A few minor adjustments required, then they can be fixed. Hand rails added and boarding gates made. Also note hand rails for crew around the sponson.
close up of lifeboat cradles. Geoff
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Stanchions looking good. I have to admit that i have never thought about stairs, believe it of not i have never made a model with them only ladders where the top rail is left long to accommodate. i hope this did not cause too many problems.
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Not at all Ian, :crash well no more than usual. :ranting Geoff
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Back to the chair legs for the handrail. :darn I have sawn up all the straght pieces for firewood. So have to cut up the bent legs. >:( Geoff
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Handrails going on, starting from the middle so only fitting one end at a time. I mark the position of the holes by wetting my finger and wiping it on the top of the stanchions, placing the rail in position will show a wet spot when removed. Marking the obtuse miters by marking each side of the next rail then join the marks. Geoff
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Thanks for the update Geoff, it's been s quiet on here over the last few days that I was beginning to wonder if anyone else was still alive!!
Looking good so far.....
Regards
Eddy
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EDDY, I think every one in UK IS ON HOLIDAY IN DEVON.
I have managed to complete all of the wooden blocks. With out steping on any more. :goodnews Forward davit strung. Geoff
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Finished the handrails. Just the gates to do now. Two will open with a bit of luck. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Looking really good 8)
Hull painting time coming up now?
Clark
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Hi PD's ...... about bloody time this hull was painted.....R.G.Y.....I am just waiting for the new color scheme
8) ....Derek
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You all think I am afraid, don't you. I am unsure of the pattern of the filigree of which there is quite alot. But the time is near, can't put it off much longer.
Boarding gates an open and shut case. Geoff
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looks really good, I hope my attempt at railings will look half as good - when I eventually get started on them :-[
Now, not meaning to be critcal, just curous, I would have made the railings on the 'passenger companionway' with metal tube for the handrail and only the centre rail under it. because that's how it looks in pictures of Consul.... or is that something that was changed and originally had a wooden handrail with three rails below?
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Would have been easier, Mick. As you say Consul is very different from the Duke of Devonshire circa 1896. Having had two major rebuilds plus other alterations. I don't mind comments :c017 even critical one some times they help. Also the rails follow the line of the hull, and not the outside of the sponson as on Consul. Here is my evidence. Geoff
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Ah, so that is something that was changed at some point. Photos from that era seem difficult to find, I like to see pics like that to clarify details you can't see in the usual 'postcard' pictures showing the ship at sea
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One of the deck aft, for you Mick. Notice the deck house is steel by this time. Geoff
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Hmm, so it is - but still narrow enough to walk between it and the bulwarks...
before this build I had no idea consul used to look so different!
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One step nearer to the painting of the hull. The doors to the sponsons have been hung. only the wash ports (ponied out by mick) and the brackets on the starboard bow, which take the beach gang plank.
How I make the hinges. Silver solder 1/16th brass tube to a strip of brass shim, (held in place by fire cement). Soft solder will melt when grinding out the knuckles. Mount in small lathe grind the knuckles with a dremel mandrill in the chuck. Cut with scissors. Push pin through and cut off, the holes in the tube will be almost close by the grinding, so the side cutters crimp will prevent the pin falling out. Geoff
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I forgot I have to sort the filigree before painting the hull. Something like below, bow, paddel box and stern, as the photos are blurred. An advice accepted. Geoff
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Geoff,
One of the guys at my club came in with a load of gold and silver scroll work (self adhesive), and it looked like it had real potential to me - Apparently his wife makes greetings cards as a hobby, and all this various stuff was available from the shop she buys her card etc from...
I can't remember the name of the company she uses, but I'm sure a quick search on Google will turn something up that is local to you... Look for arts and crafts shops.
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks very much Eddy. :c017 Why didn't I think of that! :picknose I should have as the boss makes cards. I will wait until she is out and raid her supplies. :gift Geoff
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I had been thinking about recommending stencils, but the greeting card sounds like a good idea, Now can I convince my dear wife to take up another hobby/craft?
Regards,
Gerald.
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I had an idea about this but have never put it into practice or made any trials so I have no idea if it could work...... what if you made the shapes with thin solder, put it on something the solder won;t stick to or flow over, and heat it up.... I'm thinking maybe 'radio' solder on a ceramic tile, heated in an oven as a first test and plumbers solder (if you can get it thin enough) and maybe use a gas blowtorch if the first way doesn't work for some reason....
the idea being to get a D-shape cross-section on the solder.... could be worth an experiment or two ???
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I believe Squires tools do half round brass wire - that could work.
All the best
Stuart
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I don't know why? :squareone but my wife has hidden her card making equipment. Said it was too dusty in the workshop. Made life belts from curtain pole (beech). Adding to the suspense, I have rubbed down both parts of the hull and masked one. Just need the paint. Then the committee's :gathering wish will be granted. Geoff
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What ever next Geoff, I wish i had your talent for finding fittings out of the mundane everyday items. :clap
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Ian, Just a case of looking in amongst all the rubbish I keep, and seeing what will suffice. In my last post it will be seen that I have had a good clean up ready for the painting. Three different sizes of tube make the telegraphs. The largest has been filled with hard balsa before cutting, so it dose not deform. Just have to figure out how to make the handles. Geoff
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AT LAST :kiss1First coat of paint. Brushed on so I could fill any gapes in the plates. Most of this coat will be rubbed off. One half still wet hence the shine. In the first photo the lugs for the beach landing gear. Geoff[/size]
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Mick I see in your Princess Elisabeth build, you are trying to keep the water out where the two half's of the hull join. I have decided to let it in, will act as ballast, and will only be a small amount. Geoff
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Comming along very nicely Geoff..... Only 4 weeks to go until Paddler Day though! ;)
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Geoff,
Nice to see the lovely hull lines showing with the first coat of paint. I really like that part of a build.
regards
Clark
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Yes time is not on my side! The (gripes) for the life boats ( well that's what I call them) Another little job done but 6 more of these to do. Geoff
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Ah no more beer cans :beer and the life boat stands looking very nice.
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Mick I see in your Princess Elisabeth build, you are trying to keep the water out where the two half's of the hull join. I have decided to let it in, will act as ballast, and will only be a small amount. Geoff
I'm hoping to keep the water out in case I want to put anything in that compartment (smoke generator maybe) but if it leaks it shouldn't make much difference to the ship...
Duke seems to be coming along nicely ;)
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Waiting for paint to dry! So made the ship's wheel, like most paddlers of this period it was made from brass, not wood. Short end of inch and a quarter rod mounted in chuck and turned, see photo P1 &2. Then divided using home made device P3, scribing with parting off tool and sharp pointed tool around circumference. These marks enough to center a 1.7mm drill, drill through rim into hub. Epoxy 1.6 brass wire into holes P4. when it sets I will part off. Super glue is not good enough as it cant stand the heat generated.
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Parted off the wheel, trimmed handles to length. I then but a bolt through the center hole fixed in lathe and radius the cut side. Made the pedestal from tube and a gas fitting. This looks heavy but is all hollow. Ever conscious of top weight. Completed the three? telegraph. :shoot The question is are there three on the ship?? I can not see one by the helm as the port side is obscured by the helmsman. Any ideas Please. Geoff P.S. Derek as you can see I have mastered the faces (sometimes)R.G.Y.
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As no one has an opinion :-X I will fit the three telegraph. Marked the water line. Must wait for the paint to harden before I mask up for the boot topping. Made a stand from a old drawer front 1" oak. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
The bridge area is looking great, lots of detail and interest there.
Not sure about the "Duke" regarding the number of telegraphs, but a lot of contempary paddlers seem to have an engine room telegraph by the wheel also.
I see the Duke didn't have extra telegraphs on the bridge wings for mooring orders to the deck crew....perhaps the Skippers of old just shouted any orders :D
Clark
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mmmmmmmmmmm :whistle ...that is a very elaborate method of accurately marking the waterline with a vernier height gauge :hammer
Unfortunately they have not been invented here in OZ yet :shhh ...so we just make do with a few kangaroo bones glued together to make a similar device......then we attach our thumb [which had been previously dipped in tar] ......Derek :tongue1
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DEREK, I did enjoy that post. :great :bravo :no1b :08 ;D Geoff
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A very bizzzy weekend m/c racing and bowling. Only managed 10 min in workshop. Made the life belt holders. Bent electrical wire and soldered in a simple jig. Geoff
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Eddy, :sobbing sorry but I have lost the race to finish the DUKE in time for the paddler day this year!! :darn We have also been invited to a 60th :06 birthday :beer bash. Our son also has an important race ( good result will move him up from expert to championship class) all on the 18th-19th. This will give me plenty of time for next year of course. Things remaining, rebuild boiler & install, rigging,anchors, crew, passengers, portholes, finish the paintwork and redo some of the things I am dissatisfied with. Not to mention ballast and controls. Geoff
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The binnacle made from a light fitting, the iron balls pellets from a kids gun. Geoff
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I can only assume the binnacle on the side of the hull is just in case the captain falls overboard? :D
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy , I have but a few thing right . In the second photo the handrail can be seen sticking up . Had to destroy one of the stanchions :crash to remove it. Life belt in position. Geoff
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Geoff, I really do like the binnacle (in its correct place ;D )
She is coming together nicely, pity she won't be ready for the Paddeler Day ... Are you coming .. be great to meet you.
All the best,
Kim
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Yes I am disappointed :'( but so much to do and so little time. We were hoping to have a weekend up North. ( have relatives in North Wales) Now have an other 70th birthday party :beer on 17th. I will be 70 next year and I only like other peoples parties. So a holiday will be my treat, well a weekend up North.
I will continue with the build at a more sedate pace. Srayed the boot topping and the sponson white. Desater on the sponson had a reaction with the primer only in two spots by it will have to come off. the upwared curve at the stern is not a mistake it's as original. can be seen on orinial photo not so well on the scan. Geoff
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Fitted the funnel stays. The wire came off an old electric motor, three strands twisted together using battery drill. Then rubbed through dark green paint on a rag. I chose green as the west country schooners and trawlers of this period favored this color on iron work. "D" shackles domestic electrical wire bent as shown and closed with a small nail. Geoff
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That looks very neat Geoff.... What have you used to put the loop in the cables? Is it heatshrink?
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy. Very small ali tube crimped over. I realise they should be spliced. Geoff
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In the correct colours at last. Just have to sort out the white on the sponsons now!! Geoff
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Went in the workshop today trying to cheer myself up after missing the dead line for the paddler day. :c002 Started on the folding seats against the bulwarks. Had off cuts left from the gratings, just right for the cleats. The slats are coffee stirring sticks (motorway services larger than those from burger bar) Geoff
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Reached the stage where progress has stopped !!! Have to make a toy garage for an elf's birthday. :birth But I have collected all the GOLD I can lay my hands on for the filigree. Geoff
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Trying to get some enthusiasm back after missing the big day dead line. :picknose
Managed to get the bulwark seat finished. Some folded up. Geoff
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Enthusiastic again! :terrific Rigged the mast, the fore stays can be unhooked so the mast will lay back for transport.
:gathering I need some HELP!!. I can't see how the hawser pipes finish inside the bulwarks, do they have a pipe straight down below the deck or will the chain show before entering another pipe. I don't think there is any locking device involved? as in war service they had trouble anchoring in rough weather. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Good to see the enthusiasm...she will be ready for next paddler day :D (thats my deadline for my build!)
Found this part of a plan for Duchess of Fife.... doesn't show to much detail, but there is some sort of chain stop, maybe the "Duke" had a similar set up? If I get stuck for a detail, I look at similar vessels for a clue.
Will let you know if I find any pics etc
Clark
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Geoff,
Normally the anchor chain would come up through a hawser on the side of the hull, then the chain would run across the deck to the anchor winch/capstan, and from there down another pipe into the chain locker below....
Hope that helps?
Eddy
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Hi PD's...... :whistle ...Geoff.....in your snaps pict0031.jpg & pict0002.jpg you display the earlier variant of a hawser pipe which is simply a robust cast iron horizontal reinforcement ring forged back into the [in this case] cast iron bulwark plates on either side of the bow sprit
Then as Eddy suggests ....."then the chain would run across the deck to the anchor winch/capstan, and from there down another pipe into the chain locker below"....
You have correctly displayed two of these ....robust cast iron horizontal reinforcement ring :goodnews ....as one was used for mooring ropes & the other usually the anchor
You need to ensure that [in a plan view] the anchor chain has a 180 degree turn/bite on the winch/capstan drum....this will naturally off set the entry point to the chain locker..... :goodluck
If fordeck space permits... :sobbing ....you could also add a chain stopper which locks :hammer the chain just outby of the cast iron entry point to the chain locker ..... :shhh ...but naturally this stops the anchor+chain from paying out...... :c002 when underway.........Derek :beer
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....just thinking here PD's :nono .......did the DoD actually have an anchor chain...or did the crew simply hoist the anchor via the rope block & tackle as shown at the bow :a102 ...I don't know :shhh.....Derek
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RGY....just a guess here..... :darn .... couldn't find a snap of DofD with an anchor......but here is a snap of PS Consul
:picknose ....not sure....could there have been a rope hand winch for the anchor on the forecastle that the crew simply would wind in or let out? :shhh ....& then the anchor it self secured with the chain when heaved in & stowed away? ...or as per the snap? :beer
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Thank you all for your thoughts. :bravo There is very little space at the bow which is what started me wondering. :-\ I tend to agree with Derek (just for once ;)) the rope idea seems right. As the design was very old fashioned even for 1890, and a lot of features correspond to west country schooner practice. Also as Derek said there are no pictures showing a chain going over the bulwarks. It would be rare for Duke to require an anchor, landing at piers or on the beach. Except the kedge when run up on the beach, for which piles of rope can be seen. Off course the Consul had 2 rebuild by the time of the photo. Geoff
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Oh dear PD's...... :gathering ....RGY says...... "it would be rare for Duke to require an anchor" :nono ....
:a102.......surely British mercantile laws would have required such a fine vessel of ample tonnage to have [had] an anchor to avert a risk of life in an emergency circumstance.......... whilst all the fare paying passengers :vacation were slipping their G&T in the saloon bar....... :tongue1 ......
BTW... Geoff.....what is the kedge/a kedge?...........Derek
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Derek, I am not suggesting there would be no anchor at all !! After I agreed with you as well :nono). May be I should have said use an anchor. Just that it would be secured inside the bulwarks, with out the rope or chain connected permanently. As for a kedge ( may be I can't spell) is a smaller anchor usually deployed from the stern. On the duke and Duchess used to hold the ship square to the beach when driven ashore to embark or disembark passengers. A very dubious practice which wrecked the Duchess, as you probable know. BWT Whats G&T we drink scrumpy (proper zider) in the west country. No one cares whats happening after a couple of pints. :beer G EoF ffaery
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don't know for certain but I would expect something like this..
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so far as I can tell...
the screw handle next to the chain is to lock it so it can't slip and the lever to the right disengages the chain sprockets so the windlass can still be used with ropes (for mooring)
on older ships where the anchor doesnt fit into the hull (picture is from tattershall castle, where it does) the anchor seems to have been lifted onto the deck using a davit, if it wasn't likely to be needed...
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Thanks Mick but I do know there is only a steam capstan on Duke, Both forward & aft. As I have said she was very old fashioned. Geoff
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The boss gave me permission to buy her present for me on my birthday . See P1)
So I have had a play. Made the navigation lights. Started with 7/16th brass hexagon bar. Turned out of center ( to lazy to change to 4 jaw chuck ) so packed one jaw. P2) The lamp in the photo is the stern light so I kept the round section, milling off the remainder of the hexagon and drill 1/4in hole in the flat. Finish machining by parting off an drill hole in center of the bottom to fit LED. P3) The mast head light made the same with 1/16th tube soldered on each side. P4) Port & starboard had 2 flats @ 90 deg: The complete set in with the source of the LEDs P5)
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Lost the photo of the finished items here it is. after painting the red & green on the LEDs i set them in clear bath silicone. This is smoothed in with a coffee stirring stick, then smoothed off & the excess using a rag dipped in white spirit. Geoff
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Last post for 10 days, off to Las Vegas. :08
:great But I have the filigree sorted. Cut out of an old box. Geoff
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very impressed with the lights, mine are much more basic - just brass tube with a square hole filed in one side and a piece of styrene stuck in the top...
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Well Geoff ....enjoy the :vacation Derek......:beer
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Thank you Derek. I did enjoy but it's good to be home. Geoff
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Mick your lights are probable better than mine for a paddler, being lighter. :hehe (weigh less)
Glad to be back in the shop. :terrific P1 The mast stays I completed before my holiday. Too day P2&3 fix nav lights. The rest are of the filigree. I am pleased with this, painted over then rub off before dry, concealed the edges and heightened the relief. Geoff
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Love the scrollwork Geoff - Very neat! ;)
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Geoff,
Yes very nice I like that....adds a nice touch to the bow stern and paddleboxes 8)
Clark
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Clark, yes the Duke is almost ready for flotation tests. ::) So I will be first in the water. Just the portholes to fix although they are well above the water line I will wait. As I will be replacing the insulation inside the boiler. I have found lighter material in my cellar I had forgotten about. Named "fireplank" made for fireproofing buildings. If soaked in water it goes like a biscuit dunked to long in tea. So will be plastered on to the case. Below is how she looks at the moment. Geoff
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OK PD's....what do we say......... :clap ...... :kewlpics RGY....congratulations on the build & build thread
These threads are an inspiration to us all....:c017
BTW..... :a102 is that tall yellow container on the bench immeadiately above the bow in PICT 0006? ...Derek
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Derek, Glad you have warmed a little to something called "Duke of Devonshire". The yellow object in 0006 is a "MAPP" gas canister, good for silver soldering, higher temperature than butane propane mix. Buy the way if anyone has missed my boiler build it can be found on this forum, under live steam / then boilers?. Geoff
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Looks very good indeed! ;D
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Made the anchors tonight. P1 the raw materials, with one set of flukes filed out and holes drilled in the shank. P2 soldering together, I use fire cement to hold small items in place, the cement hardens and brakes off after. A fillet of solder is built up then shaped with coarse sand paper.(don't clog up a file) I rub carbon (pencil) where I don't want solder to run. P3 ready for paint, copper wire with 3 blobs of solder forms the stock. Geoff
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Named but not launched yet. The second photo shows the two parts pulled a part. Geoff
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Now here is a question? As I have said previously no details of the extreme fore deck can be found, well not for 1900. In my opinion two options remain. Option 1 lay the anchors on the deck. Option 2 fix them to the bulwarks. This may seem strange, but this ship had many features of the sailing schooners of that time. And there where still using cat heads to secure anchors. This method would give more room. opinions welcome. Geoff
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:goodnews Launched the Duke of Devonshire today. Cider not champagne :beer Floats just above the water line with1lb 10oz of lead ballast but no water in feed tank or boiler. As can be seen she floats up right if a little unstable, can get the lead down lower and add a little. The bad news two leaks, one through the peg at the joint, no trouble, small amount of epoxy. The other is up in the bow somewhere! Have to mix resin and try to paint inside with along brush. Still not varnished the hull so this will help. All in all very happy so far. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
I have watched your build from the begining now here is a really important question WHEN are we going to see this cracking boat at Creally.
Regards Roger
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That is a closely guarded secret. Rodger! :shhh I don't even know myself. Still a lot to do before any public appearances. You may be lucky to catch me testing on a nice day midweek, during the winter. If no one is there. I am removing the boiler & engine to bench test, run in, adjust the return valve and generally familiarize myself. Then reinstall and add the rest of the radio. So in time for steam day or the fathers day meet. Which ever is first and then it depends on the weather? Geoff
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A unique feature on the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire was the gang plank mounted on the bow. So it just has to be added. The wire gallows brackets will have to be made to look like angle iron later. Don't tell Ronald Mc I have his stirring sticks. Geoff
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Picture of said gang plank. Geoff
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" Don't tell Ronald Mc I have his stirring sticks."
I knew there had to be something there that was useful.
Regards.
Gerald.
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" Don't tell Ronald Mc I have his stirring sticks."
I knew there had to be something there that was useful.
Regards.
Gerald.
they're good for mixing paint/araldite/GRP resin too! ;D
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I also used the sticks (cut in half ) for the top layer of the gratings. The bottom layer from the packs I purchased. Twice as big a area . I am a cheap skate. Geoff
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The gang plank in position. Raised and lowered. Don't think I will make it radio controlled as I hope I will not be running up on an beaches. Geoff
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A little more detailing completed. Geoff
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This is just for you Derek I'm sure I am still being watched. In the thread on the boiler build I proposed to place the separator in the top of the boiler. My thoughts being, that the oil from the engine along with any condensation would vaporize, increasing the smoke-steam from the funnel. The question now is would steam oil vaporize at this temperature? In the photos although it doesn't look like it the bottom of the separator is sealed by a plate. The 1/4" pipe will go up the chimney. the long 5/32" from engine and the short 5/32" is for emptying the separator. That is if the experiment doesn't work. Geoff
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Well it looks like i may not have done much since the Paddle day but it looks like you have been going great guns. looking very nice there
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Hi PD's....& RGY asks... "would steam oil vaporize at this temperature?" :o
mmmmmmmmmmm . = I think the exhaust steam will be carried up by the boiler gas draft...however the residue oil may condense & fall as droplets of oil back down into the top of the boiler :-[
This may the spit & smoke....but also if enough in volume will form an oil skin on the boiler internals which may in turn create hot spots.... :crash
1. Maybe the best way is to get a frying pan on the kitchen stove @ approx 150 degrees C & add a few drops of steam oil & note what happens... :goodluck :oops :sorry but :shhh your good wife prior to your experiements
2. GOOGLE...the flash point of Grade 460 steam oil
TK 460 TK 680
ISO Grade 460 680
Density, kg/m3 923.0 923.6
Viscosity
cSt @ 40°C 429 627
cSt @ 100°C 30.1 37.8
Pour Point, °C -7 -7
Flash Point, °C 271 279Compounding % 5 5
AGMA Grade No. 7 Comp 8 Comp
Derek :beer
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No Derek where we are at cross purposes is it is a water tube boiler. If anyone else is looking the drawing will explain. Good idea, I will experiment to see the temperature steam oil will vaporize. Geoff
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Eddy you will be pleased the splash guards are fitted. Geoff
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Eddy you will be pleased the splash guards are fitted. Geoff
Well done Geoff, almost at the stage where some on the water testing can be done! Mind, if your local sailing water is like ours, you'll have to fit skis! Our lake has about 6" of ice on it :(
Regards
Eddy
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Just wishing everyone a merry Christmas. :beer :06 and a Lucky new year. Thank you for following my build. Geoff
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Just had a small success. My daughter had decided to get married church and hotel booked!!! :sobbing Why cry that is supposed to be the mothers job. Sept 3th, no good for me, as that is the day I will be on my way to PADDLE DAY 2011. Well the shot gun worked, so the big day will be 14 May. :beer All I have to do now is get the Duke sorted. I know traction engines aren't even able to float, but that is what I've been doing since christmas. R.G.Y.
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Just had a small success. My daughter had decided to get married church and hotel booked!!! :sobbing Why cry that is supposed to be the mothers job. Sept 3th, no good for me, as that is the day I will be on my way to PADDLE DAY 2011. Well the shot gun worked, so the big day will be 14 May.
Now that's what I call dedication! ;D
Well done Geoff, I'll look forward to seeing you on the big day - Paddler Day that is, not the wedding day!
Regards
Eddy
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I had lost interest in the Duke just a little, knowing I would miss the big day. But now I should be able to make it enthusiasm has returned. This lull usually occurs some where in the middle of a build, but posting here has kept me going. Having removed the works to run in on the bench engine construction can be seen.
P1 engine ready to run. :-\
P2 the main frame 1"+3/8" brass. P3 plan view.
P4&P5 crank 1/4"SS with 1/8" SS pins. 1" throw. Inlet & outlet ports.
P6 cylinders 5/8" hex brass 10BA bolts. Pistons 1/2" bronze. Note the reversing plate I had no milling machine at the time, it was suggested the passages should be cut straight. :( My method cut slots in a 1/16" plate and silver solder another 1/16" plate to it incorporating the control leaver. ;D
P7 The clamps which hold it all together. GEOFF
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Geoff,
Great to see the build of the engine as well as the model. Real engineering. Look forward to seeing it a paddler day.
Richard
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Firing up the boiler failed. Not enough air in the casing for the poker to remain alight. The flames burn lovely out the small gaps in the case. Good job I have taken it out of the boat. After the gas is turned off the thermalite block remains alight having trapped gas in the air holes. Flames every where except where wanted.
Courses of action to be considered. Cut holes in the case. Easy but will let the heat out not good in a wooden hull. Could line but have a weight penalty.
Option two, fit a blower. I saw one on a site somewhere. A small electric motor with a fan. Small weight gain only.
Favorite revert to a blow torch this works OK. This will have to wait as I have blown up my lathe.
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Making a smoke machine, as seen on a site somewhere. R.G.Y.
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Continuing with experiments with the smoke machine. The motor came from an electric tooth brush and will run on one AA battery. How ever it is to efficient blowing the smoke out to thinly. So a small rheostat controls the speed. Difficult to photograph smoke it looks better in reality. Failing to get black smoke at the present. Sorry Eddy :'( Plastic tape around the four jose sticks would burn black but the sticks aren't hot enough. The plastic melts and puts the sticks out. R.G.Y.
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....Plastic tape around the four jose sticks would burn black but the sticks aren't hot enough. The plastic melts and puts the sticks out....
just a thought, I haven't tried it, but I wonder if safety firework lighters could be coated with gum-type adhesive then fine coal dust and allowed to dry... ::)
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Worth a try Mick. :-\ I am still sorting the bugs out of the power plant in the Duke. As the whole thing is a prototype. Sorted the burner by packing the holding plate off a 1/4" letting sufficient air in for a beautiful blue flame. Geoff
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Sorry Mick the coal smoke is still gray. :sobbing Geoff
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Oh you tried it then! I couldn't get the safety lighters at this time of year (incense sticks probably work well enough to test the theory I guess - but smell unrealistic!
The grey smoke would probably be good enough for me though for a first model with smoke and not really enough room for an electric smoke generator) but other substances could be tried out..... how about a sanding disc in a drill to make 'rubber dust' from an old tyre.... or would it burn too hot and catch fire.... just another idea (and it would probably smell terrible) ::)
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Mick, I must confess ::) I didn't try with safety lighters, just set light to some coal dust. Plastic or rubber is the way to get black smoke, the problem is a high enough temperature. Next experiment will be four incense sticks wired together, with match heads spaced along the length next to a piece of plastic or rubber. I am hoping this will give a puff of black smoke periodically.The beauty of the smoke machine above is it takes very little room and can be positioned anywhere in the model with flexible pipe to the funnel. Using a tooth brush motor it runs off one AA battery. All very light. I have had to alter the design as to much draft blows the smoke to thinly. No draft and the sticks will go out in the small tube. The face plate removed and only a two bladed fan works in this case.
I am still experimenting with the boiler, the trouble now is the feed clack valve will suddenly vibrate and release the pressure. Also I noted an interesting thing when I was sorting the burner. After the burner went out the Thermalite block released a lovely blue flame, as the unburnt gas was set alight. So I am thinking :thinking could it be used as a ceramic burner?? I am sure Derek will know if he is watching.
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I'm not sure that burning rubber or plastic would be a good idea, they both give off carcinogenic fumes when burning! Not to mention the smell!
Regards
Eddy
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Right Eddy, you wanted black smoke. :evil I wasn't thinking about the fumes. :'( But by the time the plastic or rubber burns the boat should be out of harms way. I am only thinking of a puff now and then. The incense sticks have to burn down an inch as the match heads will ignite when the ends are lit. then another half inch to stop the rest going off. Insulation tape gives the best result, but to much and the sticks go out. As below to much tape and to near the end. Geoff
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Lets be honest Geoff, it just has to be black smoke for a paddler! ;)
The hull for my next project has just arrived this morning, which will need black smoke to look right! I'll post details about it later today....
Regards
Eddy
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Have you any ideas Eddy . Geoff
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Have you any ideas Eddy . Geoff
To be honest I don't have any ideas Geoff, that's why I posed the question originally..... However, Walter Snowdon did say that green garden twine burns with a black smoke, so that may be worth a try? Just make sure you get the natural twine, not the modern stuff made from man made fibres!
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy,Let us know if anyone makes black smoke. The best I can do is blue. :darn So I give in :shoot An incense stick with flakes of plastic stuck to it with evo stick, ( petroleum based impact adhesive) Four give plenty of smoke. Geoff
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If someone cracks it I'll certainly let you know Geoff!
I'm sure that if someone came up with a commercial unit that made a decent amount of black smoke there would be a great demand for them! The normal smoke units either give out small whisps which dissipate so quickly they are useless, or they use water vapour and give white smoke - Who ever saw a real boat produce white smoke? :(
Regards
Eddy
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I did read somewhere that with the water vapour type, you can add black food colouring to the water but I always assumed it would condense all over your decks like black ink.... :(
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I tried the food colouring in a water vapour unit I had a while back Mick - It doesn't work! You still just get white smoke! :(
Eddy
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Still sorting out the bugs :crash in the duke's power plan. Have had the engine running on steam, not reliable enough to install yet. Replaced the burner with original with slots instead of holes, working better. :clap Lighting the said burner I folded up a spill as my grandmother used to light her gas lights. I put it out and low and behold blue smoke :great more smoke than the sticks and more important cheaper. so more experiments soon. Geoff
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Just returned from holiday. So sorry to see your bad news Eddy.
Still running in the steam plant, getting there slowly. P1 running but a lot of steam escaping from reversing valve. Pivot post not square :oops P2 leak stopped running on 5psi.
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I have tried to put a vidio on u-tube will it work. Geoff
utube.com/watch?=KtMKpGHblHc May be I will have to try when I have more time?
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NO good I will wait until my four year old grandson comes he will get it right. Geoff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtMKpGHblHc That will find it!! Must take a better video next steam up Geoff.
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NO good I will wait until my four year old grandson comes he will get it right. Geoff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtMKpGHblHc That will find it!! Must take a better video next steam up Geoff.
Although YouTube seems to be on a bit of a go slow, so the video was very slow to load (not your fault Geoff!), it looks like the engine runs very nicely!
Any chance of doing a video that shows how it responds to the throttle please?
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Pd's...... :whistle
Eddy....I found after I had downloaded the slow download once.........& the re-reading or reviewing was all seamless :breakcomp
RGY...remember we are still watching :nono
I thought the amount of external steam from the engine room was great..........like in a movie........... :tongue1 ...keep up the good work.....Derek :beer
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Yes I will try to better the film. Eddy.
There was a leak of steam from the regulator seating tried to stop it by screwing the nut down tight, disaster striped the thread in the block :crash so no film this steaming. The good news is could you see the pressure gauge under 5lb and the motor still running. You do have a lot of patience Derek. :respect
I have made progress with the smoke machine. Rolled toilet paper (unused)makes blue gray smoke in vast quantities. The tube gets a little hot so will have to fix an outer tube. Will film this later. Geoff
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Boiler in bits for modification :crash :sobbing Although I calculated the surface area to produce enough steam for the engine, it is very marginal. :thinking The trouble I believe is the top of the boiler is to far away from the flame. So I am adding an other tube just above the burner. Geoff
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Well hullo PD's..... :shhh...RGY....you know we are watching :whistle...but I am stumped as to where the additional boiler tube is to join in........
a. like start & finish
b. like :a102
Keep us posted....... :beer Derek
PS...I plan to spend a few hours on Sunday morning :hammer modifying my Saito Y2DR to include an exhaust manifold.....
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Derek, I am glad you are keeping me under surveillance. Look at the pink tubes. New main tube 1/2" with elbow on front, caped and 1/4"tube up into the original top tube.At the bottom end the 1/4" semicircular tube silver soldered to the end cap, then 3 number 1/8" holes drilled through the end cap into the 1/4" tube. (this done before fixing the end cap.) In the photos above the 1/4" tubes are about to be soldered into the existing. I have just got steam up, with the engine running can maintain constant pressure. I had to modify the burner to close to new tube kept going out. squashed in the vice sorted that. Geoff
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Another video showing the seed control and reversing. Of the motor. Hopefully?
Geoff
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Has anyone been able to watch this video as I can't Geoff
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it says not availible for me.
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I just get a box that says the video is not available Geoff :(
Regards
Eddy
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Thank you both I will try to fix it. Lets try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ANuLa4jRKQ Geoff
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that works.
lovely engine movement :great
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Yes the video link now works fine Geoff.... The level of low speed control is extremely impressive!
Regards
Eddy
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Well PD's.....that low engine speed & engine noise is great RGY..... :no1b .....Derek :beer
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RGY..... :gathering...we have reviewed again tonight & see the issue :a102
:c002 ...your .MOV file must be depicting a newish vessel master in a docking operation & you as the engineer are providing the FWD & ASTERN revolutions....again great work :tongue1 ...
We have after 12 hours solid work here in OZ :crash tonight also reviewed the sound aspect...... :s_cool .....
The most impressive steam video on PD's for a few years........Derek
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That's how we all dream ours should go (but somehow they don't) ;)
Lovely example Geoff. Well done
ken
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...your .MOV file must be depicting a newish vessel master in a docking operation & you as the engineer are providing the FWD & ASTERN revolutions....
...it does look like the 'real thing' doesn't it, all that's missing is the bells...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jTvUVQZNZA
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Thank you all for your kind words. The secret, long stroke to bore ratio in this case double. :sunglasses You will notice in the previous video the revs where much higher, but a lot of steam was escaping, although I had lapped the faces well. :thinking Having lapped the faces when on the pivot the ends with more movement than the center ground down leaving the face hard around the pivot. :darn so I milled around the pivot now no steam escapes put no high revs. Going in the boat as soon as I can find the time. :vacation Geoff
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This is the latest experiment with the smoke, plenty and darker than it looks on screen. But a bit volatile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r75f1EVTL6A
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Sorry to report progress very slow, as I am a not so good. But I have managed to install the plant. Just have to sort the feed pump now. Geoff
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Sorry one wrong picture. That's the one . Geoff
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OK PD's........ :whistle .....RGY.........I posted a note to kiwimodeller last night.............you may not have seen it yet :hehe :oops....but I think your thoughts were in parallel :trophy
The kitchen aluminium foil makes a great model version of the galvanized tinplate covers on the steam lagging :terrific .......... :gathering
All looking good RGY...........Derek :a102 .........
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No I hadn't seen your post Derek. But I am not claiming the idea, I saw it in Model Boats magazine. It is a good one. There is string under neath of course. Geoff
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Sorry :sorry I will not make the Big day on the 4th. :ranting First one daughter wanted to get married on the 3rd, got over that one. Now another daughter has given me a trip on a Bristol pilot cutter for my birthday :great!!! From Brixham to Southampton 5days on the 4th to the 8th. What could I say.
On top of that the Duke has yet to see the water. :whistle
I still have one model cutter (Hilda No 2 Bristol with my trawler.) Having sold Cariad No 19 Newport. Geoff
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Back to the Duke at last. Having a bit of trouble with my ticker of late, that is the reason for the delay.
As can be seen on the youtube video, the boiler and engine work OK. Unfortunately I cant get the water feed to work reliably. When I designed the boiler the one and a half bar-liter rule was in force. So the total capacity was kept just below .5 liter, including the steam space. A reliable feed is essential, only six minutes safe running time without a feed. Now the rule is three bar-liter, I have designed a new boiler with over .75 liter capacity, should give at least 10min running before hand pumping if the feed fails. I have attached the plan, hopefully? Geoff p.s. to see it you may need the excellent free down load drafting program Draft Sight.
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This may be better.Geoff
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Hi PD's ...& good to see you back posting ...RGY :tongue1...but when I open the attachment...I get :ranting & :offtopic...millions of images ......but not from you....
Good to hear that the ticker is back in track........ :vacation......my receipe is OZ grown garlic & red wine......... :kiss1
Please keep us informed with text & images of the Duke.........remember we are still watching :whistle .....Derek :beer.....
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Derek, glad your still watching. I have been watching to but nothing to post. The wine YES, :beer but vampires don't like garlic. :41
Geoff
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I was asked for more details of the engine last year, I have just done a small mod. So took photos while apart. First the cylinder block. 22mm brass hexagon bar bored 12mm, piston bronze, 1/8th silver steel rod, end cap bolts 10 BA. The mod was cut the side of the big end, so the crank bearing could be increased in width. There had been excessive wear. Next the new bearings and crank refitted. next side view of standard at crank end.
next the ports & pivot pin, note the relief around the pin. The standard at reverser come throttle end. the reverser made from 2 pieces of 1/16th plate, cut the passages in 1 then solder together, the second piece incorporates the control arm. Finally the strap self explanatory but I have not seen one like it, but no doubt it has been done before. R.G.Y.
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Well the Duke has had 3 outings on a private pond, sorry can't film and sail at the same time. She is not ready for a public performance yet :sorry. Now in bits in the work shop for mods, as the burner keeps going out :(. Changing to a ceramic burner which will need a new case for the boiler. I am also going to reduce the amount of metal in the engine and add insulation, To reduce condensation. GEOFF
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I am surprised no one commented on the boiler design, like too many joints!!
Any way I have remove a lot of metal from the engine standard. Also half of the port plates (on side of cylinders) reduced thickness of crank to compensate. Will fill the groves with wood and cover the cylinders next. Had a pin hole in steam pipe so replaced that. Geoff
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Geoff,
I think i might have said similar in the past... I'm not steam literate ...
My Dad, sure he could pass comment, but i can't do much more than stand back and admire!
Carry on Sir, until someone more qualified Say's otherwise!
Regards,
Kim
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I am surprised no one commented on the boiler design, like too many joints!!
Any way I have remove a lot of metal from the engine standard. Also half of the port plates (on side of cylinders) reduced thickness of crank to compensate. Will fill the groves with wood and cover the cylinders next. Had a pin hole in steam pipe so replaced that. Geoff
Hi Geoff,
I had looked at your boiler design and did shutter at the number of joints. I made a mental note to watch and see how you constructed it. I once built a boiler that was described as weighing five pound four of which was silver solder, the important thing is always is it a safe design and will it pass a hydro and steam test.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Well Kim I am far from qualified, just read the books.
Gerald, I have redesigned a square mark2 version with less cross tubes we shall see. My last boiler was from domestic water pipe!! Hands held up in horror at the model engineering club. The thickness of this pipe is .047"or 1.123mm . But I had calculated that it would stand 200psi with a safety factor of 8 times that before failure. This is why only 1" pipe is used, circumference 3" inside pipe, 3 times 30lbs = 90lbs. No problem as I only use 25lbs any way. But 4" pipe circumference 12" = 360lbs @30psi. Every force has an equal and opposite force so the force is halved I think! :thinking or am I wrong?
The engine mods have been completed except for more coats of varnish. All metal removed has been replaced with wood and the cylinders lagged.Geoff
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I will have to dig my K. N. Harris out and brew a pot of coffee before I answer.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Gerald, I got my copy of Mr Harris's book out and found my calculations stuffed inside. Strength of copper when heated 11 tons=25000lbs safety factor of 8. =
25000 divide by 8 = 3125lbs .
Safe max pressure =
thickness of tube x 2 X 3125 divided by diameter of tube.
=.047x2x3125 div 1.02= 287.99lbs.
I think I did it right. Geoff
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That looks right to me.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Thank you Gerald, two heads are better than one ;D ;D. Geoff.
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Another change of plan. :darn I have to admit defeat with the present setup. The idea was to build a boiler with a lower center of gravity. Unfortunately the burner is to near the boiler to burn well, if the boiler is razed it will defeat the object. :squareone Another reason for using small tube was the cost. A water tube boiler has less capacity than a fire tube boiler made to fit in the same space. Now lady luck has smiled on me. I have been given 6ft of 16gauge 2.5ins tube. :thinking :terrific Build 2 boilers side by side and connect them with cross tubes. The disadvantages 2 burners will require a bigger gas tank, also will have to join the flues. But the CofG will be about 1ins. Geoff
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Now that's got to win the ingenious solution of the week :bravo
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thank you Ian. So simple why didn't I think of it before. Well I would have had to buy 2.5" tube and I am known for being careful. :whistle The total capacity of the new boiler .950 of a liter. should give minimum 20 minutes sailing so I will get rid of the pump and water tank. Should have room for a gas canister instead of the refillable tank. Geoff
One end cap made can just be seen in large tube.
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Great work around...Too bad you can't keep the feed pump and aft water tank - that is one grand eccentric drive!!
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The pump and the eccentric may not be abandoned it will be easier to regulate a larger boiler, we shall see. :thinking Looking at turning boiler around and moving it for-ad making more room. I will have to re ballast of course. The neighbours are happy that I have finished the boiler bashing. :crash The cross tubes and bushes will be a quiet job. Geoff
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That was fast. A dream to have that kind of supply of copper pipe!! The flues will go up and out the far end right to a collective chamber to a single stack if I read your sketch right?
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A little to fast, made a mistake. I will have to reduce the length of the steam drum. I forgot a section of deck under the stair would foul the end. So the holes for the cross tubes are in the wrong place. I hope Derek isn't watching.
The tube is second hand in pieces 2ft long, only one bit an good for boiler making. (used for refrigeration gas) The rest has been so hot the insulation has etched in to the surface. Geoff
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Hi PD's.....we never sleep in OZ :ranting ...all will be OK....RGY....we are still watching :41 ........just carry on.......
If the tube has been used at sub ZERO temperatures......the molecular structure of the copper has been subjected to elongation, however talking with colleagues :gathering & :beer.........this will be OK if you place the tube in warm sunlight for 136 hours @ 32.5 degrees C :whistle
The actual formula is.....{1 degree delta T x (kg mass x length of the tube inverted on Pi) }.......simple....just like some of us......
This is an amazing mechanical phenomena as the structural change is not measurable.....it is only apparent when attempting to silver solder endcaps to the end...........of the tube.......:especially if Pi was x by tomato sauce ......Derek :a102
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I am worried when in the U.K. am I going to get 6 hours let alone 136. :s_cool Luckily for me the copper had been hot. (in more ways than one) So in the freezer for 136 hours OK Derek. :great
The big redesign has worked out well. :08 Buy turning the boiler around and moving forward better access to the controls, more room and chimney very near the funnel. The red line across the steam drum is where I will cut it off, the cross is the center of the funnel and the cross on the boiler tubes the center of the chimneys. I still plan to encase the steam drum in the flue manifold to retain heat in it .
The two holes drilled by mistake will be elongated and a cross tube fitted, will have no use but will get me out of a hole. :coffee and lots of it.. Geoff
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) So in the freezer for 136 hours OK Derek. :great
Geoff
I think Derek implied you need to sit your copper out in the sun at 32. C or 90 F for 136 hours ( to offest the effects of sub-freezing temps prior) --SO warmish hot temps for a long rest, not in the freezer, if I read his thinking right!!
Fingers crossed I have advised correctly
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No Greg, Derek is just trying to get me going baffling me with science :41. All though it came out of a cold room refrigeration unit. It gets hot as it has removed the heat from the room. So hot the insulation rubber was stuck to it. I was just getting my own back at Derek. :nahnah Me get in trouble with the management with dirty old pipe in the freezer no way :nono.
Another advantage with the new layout is the gas canister is under the chart room, much more height. No need for a special tank. GEOFF
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Ahhhhhh...Sooooooo!! I fell into the prank :a102 thats what I get for reading all the words but not the meaning :c017
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Hi PD's.....& :sorry Mo.......
Whenever the PD WEB site gets a little quiet.........I have been known to throw in a RED herring
RGY & I have been doing this years....all good fun :gathering with the banter.... but what ever :shhh .... :nono ...we don't want everyone to know our secrets..... :whistle
Derek :beer
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Don't worry Greg,, Derek fooled me once. Finished the fire tubes, cross tubes flared so they cant move, 4 through the joints in the elbows pin them. Bushes all turned and drilled. The large one is also the cap for the steam drum.Geoff
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I'll say one thing Geoff, once you make a start, you don't hang around!
It will be interesting to see how the new setup performs compared to the old one....
Regards
Eddy
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Nice to hear from you Eddy. Will be delayed now only half a bottle of gas left. None available from my supplier until 11th of March. Cant risk running out half way through.
I have just searched the net for this gas, and have found there could be a fault with the canisters. NO NAMES. Apparently there have been some accidents and litigation pending!! Hence the lack of stock at a national supplier. Geoff
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I could be a lot quicker if I could play all day but with a dodge ticker I only manage half a day. Placed the boiler together, If my son has a spare afternoon he will bring his works oxy-gas set and solder it up for me. :08 In the mean time I will start the burner experiment. Have read the jet should be 2.25"to 2.33" from the burner face. Using a number 3 jet in 22mm fire tube. I am starting with a number 8 jet feeding two 22mm.
I will but a gas torch in under the old boiler and use it to test an new engines, so not wasted. I can use the hand pump to keep the water level up.Geoff
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I have heard that all MAPP gas canisters have been recalled for modifications, as there have been some catastrophic failures to the necks of said canisters. No wonder I can't get any. :41
I still have some left, but not enough to start soldering the boiler. :16
After some experiments I have completed one burner, which is performing well. The dark spot in the centre of second photo is the fine gaze which goes in the end.
The failures in the last photo. Geoff
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I should explain the the single jet double burner failed because I couldn't keep the flame inside the fire tube. Ether burnt at the funnel or came out the air inlet holes. 22mm burner won't go into a 22mm flue. Geoff
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Still waiting for GAS :picknose :picknose But have not been idle, :vacation Made the water gauge and blow down valve. made from square because I have plenty, dont use much. Also :hijack :offtopic building another rocking motorbike for the second grandson, you have to treat them all the same .Geoff
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What a great hijack!! :clap
Good for him and you!
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MO (greg). Do you mean I have hijacked my own thread :sorry. Or as I suspect :thinking its what you call an off road bike in the USA. Learn something every day.
I have been to Portland a lot in the past as I have a sister & brother in-law living in Vancouver. Can't visit now as the medical insurance cost to much for my condition. The GAS should be hear tomorrow, but I have a holiday :vacation in Cornwall, there is always somthing geting in the way. :darn Geoff
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Back from the holiday :vacation. Got the gas, got the oxy gas but having both hands full can't hold the solder. :41 Tried to place pieces on the job but all ran the wrong way. My step son is working nights this week, so I will wait for the expert. Geoff
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Glad to hear you are back --Ahhh Holiday time sounds so good...None on this end for a while... :-X dag- nabit :sobbing
18 + thousand views / 460 posts!! on this thread Geoff- - your setting a record I think soon :beer
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Not quite a record. Princess Elisabeth build has more views. So avoid going on that one. :08 HA HA
Have to take holiday now as the outdoor bowling season starts 21st and as captain will be busy all summer. Geoff
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Then there where two. Orders for more. :41 :c002 Geoff
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Started soldering up the boiler today. Fire tubes fixed and one end plate in each boiler. pickling in citric acid for 12 hours now.
Have been working on traction engine as well. Geoff
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Geoff is that a minnie?
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Thanks for not saying is that half a minnie. Yes Ian you are right, hopefully it will be a complete minnie one day. Geoff
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As things here are quiet at the moment, ( all out sailing your paddlers I hope).So I will post 2 photos of my set up for silver soldering. On top of the central heating boiler, the fumes go up the flue. they are poisonous. The end caps havn't been soldered the silver is from when I fixed them on the wrong end. Geoff
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For anything larger than pipe work I have converted an old BBQ for doing my sliver soldering outside.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Yes Gerald, safer outside, but I find the light to bright to see the colour change. my hearth is in a dark corner and the flue has a strong up draft. Other wise I would be out side Geoff
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At last some progress, the main part of the boiler all soldered up. The steam drum scraped and an new design will be made. When complete it will be joined to the top of the boiler by a special fitting, a right hand thread on one end and a left on the other.
This will solve a problem I have been pondering for quite a time, how to make the flue manifold gas tight. The bottom plate of the manifold fitting on to the three bushes, one steam (to the steam drum) two flue. After the drum is fixed the rest of the manifold bolted to the plate.
Now the bad news my lathe has ceased to work, so can't make the plugs to pressure test boiler. Cant make bushes for steam drum ether, and I have to trace the fault then repair.
More bad news my tame boiler inspector has moved to Norfolk.
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Sorry to hear about your lathe, it looks to be electric problems from your photos. Did you let the magic smoke out or is it gremlins playing on the circuit board? Are there wild boiler inspectors around that you can lasso and tame or do you have to raise one? Best of luck Regards,
Gerald.
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We will light a candle for you and the lathe!!
Hope you get a cooperative inspector too!!
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Wish i could solder a boler its looking good. I am looking at buying one for the waverly. I hope you get your lathe up and running.
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No smoke from the lathe, :darn would have been able to find the fault by following the black marks. It just started running at one rev per min, so the speed control board is prime suspect. Motor tested OK. :goodnews
I must confess the soldering is not all my own work. Have you ever tried holding 2 burners and a stick of solder. I held the burners, my son did the soldering. He sponsors the solder. :shhh Geoff
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Hi PD's....... :darn ..,..sorry about the black lines on the circuit board RGY :ranting .......... :breakcomp ...wish I could help....as always.....Derek :beer
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Mo (greg) lighting that candle did the trick. THE LATHE IS UP AND RUNNING. Thank you. Geoff
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The drawings for the steam drum and manifold. Hope you approve Derek. :beer
As for boiler inspectors, the trouble I have is finding one. They only like TRAINS. :offtopic Geoff
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The drawings for the steam drum and manifold. Hope you approve Derek. :beer
As for boiler inspectors, the trouble I have is finding one. They only like TRAINS. :offtopic Geoff
Mount some wheels on a platform and tell them its a logging train ;<)
Regards,
Gerald.
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Good idea Gerald. :08 Just one word of warning never call a railway engine a TRAIN in ear shot of a railway man. They will never test for you. :41 Geoff
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Getting excited again at last. :06 Sorry the picture quality is poor. I have made the left & right hand connector and the fire tube inserts. More progress soon. :crash Geoff
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Full steam ahead, SOON. :yeahbaby Red paint just from the recycled materials.( tin tray) :shhh P1 drilling the holes first. Then find the shape after.
P2&3 steam drum completed, and fitted on plate, plate fitted to boiler. Geoff
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P1. How I planed to make the manifold. I decided there was to much weight to high :shoot. So have changed the design, by reducing the size, using tin plate for the top and sides. Insted of 1/16th plate as in the other photos. Geoff
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ahhhh, now I see how it's going to work, brilliant ;D
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Only brilliant if it works. Geoff
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Hi Geoff
Exeter model boat show on farthers day are we going to see this beastie there oh and you of course.
Old Man
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Old man if I can I will, but not on the water I am afraid. geoff
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Progressing with the manifold today. Soft solder & riveted joint? Will the solder :c002 melt!! Lower joint will be drilled & tapped 8BA. Sliding door made of 1/16th plate. Runners to be fitted. Next a plate over the front to hold the steam drum securely so the water gauge won't snap. Geoff
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... Will the solder :c002 melt!! ....
I did wonder about that as the heat from the furnaces is collected inside the 'coffin' without water to keep the temp at around 100c, would it need to be welded?
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Yes Mick, I sure you are right. Especially as I will be covering the lot in soldering mat & cooking foil.
The disadvantage of a twin boiler set up is the extra outer surface area. I shall be running it on the bench first. So when the solder runs out I shall push fire cement back in its place. Yes I should have silver soldered in the first place. I was having trouble holding the joints in place ( to drill for the rivets)that is my excuse. Geoff
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Making a pattern for the front plate. Using the brass rubbing technique. :hammer In the photo the bush holes look lopsided, well I am afraid they are, a consequence of dropping the boiler in an annealed state. The boiler that is not me. :hehe Geoff
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Hi PD's....& RGY says......... "The boiler that is not me" :s_cool
We are always watching .......... :towel ......Derek
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Good job you couldn't see me the weekend Derek. :06 I was well anneled. :beer Geoff
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Geoff-- superb sheet metal work-I sure like your ideas! :) :)
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Greg, coming from someone of your caliber I take that as a really good compliment. Unfortunately the sheet metal work looks better in the post than it does on my bench. It will be better when finaly fitted in the Duke. thanks Geoff
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Someone once said (probably Derek) there are no problems only solutions. :squareone Well there was a problem with the tin-mans solder melting in the manifold. :sobbing The solution was found in a builders merchants catalog. Woven glass soldering mat & glue to stick it, both guaranteed to withstand 600 degrees. So the inside of the manifold will be lagged. Insulating the manifold & preserving the solder. :respect
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I cannot wait till you issue the hardbound and illustrated build book with all of your wonderful solution's :tongue1
It will be the best read I will have had in a while....a real nailbiter :great and Best seller !!
Full steam ahead Geoff- I have some compressed Kaowool ( ceramic fiber) sheets if that would be of interest- about 1/8" thick- 6"x 6" and will handle up to 2,400 degrees F...Let me know happy to send you some
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Sorry Greg I couldn't stand the fame or the fortune, :no1b if the book became a best seller.
The Kaowool would be nice ( my daughter came back from Vancouver Monday last could have saved the postage) :c017 Never mind thanks for the offer. Geoff
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Front plate fitted (temp). Sight glass fittings lined up with metal rod. ( Glass on bench ) The other pipe is the fill pipe, to connected to external hand pump. I have put paper to show were the lagging will be. Geoff
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It is like having a smoke box on top of your grill !!! :o I like it--Hurry up and pose it in the hull so I can better understand how this rascal is going to sit :thinking
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I don't like to be branded a poser, :sunglasses but here we go Greg. My excuse I needed to mark the position of the chimney. Which I did by poking a very long (24") artist brush with paint down the models funnel. This will fit on the door, both door and chimney only placed in position in photo. Checkout the low center of gravity. Geoff
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Posing now done- and appreciated !!
Geoff you really have to be pleased with that low CoG!!
Thanks for indulging me :bravo
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pose away. ;D everything looks good in position.
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Thanks for the comments fellas. But I think I am the only one posting today. Top bolted to bottom plate 8BA taped. Fixed the chimney to the door. Stainless tube from a solar garden light, my was it hard. That's why only 3 rivets. Strips of soldering mat stuck to under side of door. Lining cut, just placed in manifold, not fixed must paint with Bar-B-Q paint first. Geoff
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Hi PD's....... :whistle ....couldn't quite understand the calculation in PICR0015.jpg
5NTH 3/Z x 50
and 5/16 x 32 .................. :a102
Derek :beer
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Very nice to hear from you Derek. :08 I know you like complicated formulae. :sobbing :sorry But I have to disappoint you, it is just a reminder of the threads in the boiler bushes. The letters being the positions, followed by 3/8+40 & 5/16+32. If I ever do adding up :shhh I always put £ sign in front then I always get the answer right. Geoff
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Having looked back at this thread It has made me realise how time flies by. Having stated the original boiler in July 2009. Duke started December 2009 & completed July 2011 since then I have been messing around sorting the bugs, and building a new boiler. But I must confess I enjoy the constrution better than the sailing. I will be at Exeter meet on 17th see you then OLD MAN. GEoff
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Having looked back at this thread It has made me realise how time flies by. Having stated the original boiler in July 2009. Duke started December 2009 & completed July 2011 since then I have been messing around sorting the bugs, and building a new boiler. But I must confess I enjoy the constrution better than the sailing. I will be at Exeter meet on 17th see you then OLD MAN. GEoff
Geoff,
The ''i enjoy building rather than sailing'' statement really gets me .. and i have heard it often... that much self punishment for no joy ... really?
I admire your effort but if as you say you will be at paddler day i will enjoy seeing her on the water ... that said .. i ain't putting myself through that to produce a steam driven boat ... are we even equal... in our thinking ? Are you a masochist .... lol ?
Regards,
Kim
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I don't think I am a masochist, not where sex is concerned anyway. I am in my warm workshop, others are out sailing. With the weather we are having, (60mph wind, 3in rain in 24hr) who are the masochist. Joking apart, we are at different stages in our lives you and I. 35 years different a life time. When you retire you must keep active body and mined, or you will soon vegetate. I enjoyed my working life solving problems and producing an end result. So this hobby is fine for me. I have three sailing models one operational steam driven paddler and working on the Duke and a Minnie traction engine No hurry that is why its taking so long, I have to get it right. I started making rubber band powered paper & balsa planes with help from my dad at 7. Then moved on to diesel control line models. Next slot cars this was before Scalelctric, made our own track and cars. at the age of17 drink time I designed and help build carnival flouts for 6 years. (look on Bridgwater carnival web site you will be amazed.) Married I moved on to radio controlled air craft 27meg ( not good with CB all the rage) So full size and a pilots licence the ovious next step. From there I started Stock car racing (BRISCA Formula 2) designing and building my own (winning) cars. At this tiime I did a coastal skippers ticket having a 40ft Princess power boat. So you see I can't break the habit of a life time. I have been retired 16 years and fill my time bowling, mechanic to my son when he is motorcycle racing. This includes making bits for him and his mates on my lathe. At the bottom of the list is model boating. Geoff
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Hi Geoff look forward to seeing you on sunday. Please egineer some good weather before we all blow a valve
okld man
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:offtopic Most viewers won't know what a BSISCA f2 is so here is mine. Up to 30 cars let lose on a oval track of about 1/4 mile length, the fastest at the back. Much bumper work is called for to get to the front. Note the marks on the fence. Geoff
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Hi PD's.......Geoff....you & I have been talking for years........ ......any member that can submit near 900 build images gets my best vote :c017
We may joke about many things :ranting, but behind each posting is a message that I and others will lean by
PD's need members of your ilk & knowledge :tongue1....so keep your posts flowing..... Derek :beer
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:offtopic Most viewers won't know what a BSISCA f2 is so here is mine. Up to 30 cars let lose on a oval track of about 1/4 mile length, the fastest at the back. Much bumper work is called for to get to the front. Note the marks on the fence. Geoff
That looks like a Sprint Car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_car_racing
Regards,
Gerald.
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:hijack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts4T2ojb3Eo
Please look at this!!
May be I am a masochist. Geoff
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That's not working try this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBgKOw1WixQ
The masochist
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Thanks Geoff,
At first glance the wings fooled me, not like Sprints at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhAMXjs1ICI&feature=related
Regards,
Gerald.
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There are similarities Gerald. The big differences engine size ( 4cylinder 2 liter not big v8).
Only 80 mph, but pushing IS allowed. hence the bumpers (fenders) all around the car.
No play in the workshop this week bowling in the wind & rain. I have been sorting things to visit OLD man at Exeter on Sunday. Geoff
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The car reminds me of the 'superstock' type I used to see at arena essex in the 1980s, don't know if that still goes on , haven't been there for years....
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Hi Geoff
great to see you on sunday thanks for coming. Really chuffed to see your your steam plant in the flesh. Hopefully see it on the water soon.
oldman
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Yes Mick the superstocks are run by a breakaway promoter.
Old man, Yes it was a good day with the sun shining for a change.Sorry I left the superstructure at home. But I did sail Glen Usk the first time in over a year.Geoff
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Hopefully this will be the last post I make which is off thread. Must get back to the Duke, having just finished another rocking bike. Now there are three. Geoff
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You are the best grandad RGY......they must love you :kiss1...those little ones.......Derek
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:offtopic My 4 year old (Eddy knows him as the elf) tells anyone who has anything broken. My grandad can mend it. :crash The latest bike has been sold, I could sale a lot more but enough is enough. It is going to be dolls houses next for the girl. Geoff
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At last a post concerning the Duke. :a102 Fixed the gas canister a very tight fit. Had to cut out a deck beam so the tap would open, that's tight. At least there will be plenty of gas. Top ring is removable, the white filler around lower ring is filler, so I can clean off oil & water after a run. One day. :hehe Geoff
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Hi PD's......Geoff....in OZ :ranting ...those little squat 200 gm disposable EN16 threaded tanks are about $5.50 each which is highway robbery
as it equals $0.0275/gm...or $27.50/kg or $27,500.00/tonne :a102
So I purchased a 200 gm refillable tank from Sandy Campbell and now use Gasmate 200 gm disposable containers from Coles or K-Mart for $12.00 for a six pack......... :goodnews ....they don't use the EN16 thread...but fit directly into the Ronson type valves in the refillable onboard gas tank
Derek :beer
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Derek are you trying to upset me. Me spending to much money :darn the thought doesn't bear thinking about. No Kmart or Cole's around here but we do have Trago Mills & B&Q. My only consultation is I use a propane, butane mix. Which is more expensive than straight propane. But I will try some from them. Geoff
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Hi PD's.... :whistle ..... :a102 ...me try & upset you RGY?.....never :coffee ......Derek
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I looked at the first can, the second is better. Unfortunately I am very upset. I am an idiot!!!! :sobbingThe bush in the end of boiler was not threaded straight so I decided to drill it out and re tap, to a larger size. I only drilled into the fire tube !!!! :shoot GEOFF
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Hi PD's.... :whistle & RGY says.... "I am very upset. I am an idiot" :nono :nono
Take stock young man.......it was only last week that your grandchild very proudly :kiss1 said ....
"tells anyone who has anything broken..... my grandad can mend it"
So thinking as you repair this latest calamity :shhh ...how proud you must be with all those little darling grandchildren :tongue1 under your toes in the workshop.....Derek :beer
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I have a plan. :thinking Geoff
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I looked at the first can, the second is better. Unfortunately I am very upset. I am an idiot!!!! :sobbing The bush in the end of boiler was not threaded straight so I decided to drill it out and re tap, to a larger size. I only drilled into the fire tube !!!! :shoot GEOFF
What did you say when you realized what you had done? Is it repairable?
I trained my self when my children were young not to swear, my kids wanted Dang, sugar and opes added to the swear jar list.
Regards,
Gerald.
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I said O BOTHER.But the man who never made a mistake made nothing. My father always said any man can make a mistake, but it takes a good one to get over it. Geoff
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My grandson said if my grandad can't mend it no one will when he's finished with it. :crash Started on the plan to repair the boiler. P1. Cut a plate to fit around the fire tube where it enters the flange plate. Marked its perimeter then cut inside the marks, using a 1" circular saw in a Dremel. Then cut off the fire tube at its exit flush with the top of the boiler. P2. Then drilled it out with a cone drill. P3. Removed the tube showing the hole. I had pined the elbow joint by inserting cross tubes. having drilled these out I still couldn't get them apart, although the solder ran. So a new fire tube it will have to be. Geoff
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This is just a dry run. Nothing has been soldered yet. I have to scrounge some more silver solder from my son. :gift I flare the ends of the cross tubes by holeding a center punch in the vice, then knock another into the other end. Geoff
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Fingers and eyes crossed for you!! Keep the faith
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Thanks mo (greg). :beer I'm not worried now I have the old tube out, only a little soldering and back in business. :squareone.
I have also fitted the steam pipe and pressure gauge. Had trouble with the gauge as it was meant for a Cheddar plant the thread was a strange one. In the end I had to re thread with a smaller one. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Did you have any luck getting some solder from your son?
I was running low on solder and have a boiler or two to work on so I went in the the welding supply to pick up some more, I got an unpleasant surprise when it came to pay. Last time I had picked some up it had cost around $20 this time for 30g it was $55.60. I wonder if I could melt down some of the silverware around the house without the wife noticing?
Regards,
Gerald.
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Yes Gerald I have the solder and the fire tube is in the citric acid. I may post a photo of my stock now and make you very jealous. Geoff
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Hi PD's.....RGY :hammer ......what Gerald is forgetting is EPNS is only a few microns thick....so it would take four thousand & 24 pieces of cutlery to get a few grams of silver for the silver solder :41 ...& by then his wife would surely notice their disappearance......
You are doing a good job....just carry on please........ Derek ......:beer
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Its not what you know its who you know, Gerald. Not all silver some sifbronze, but the price is right £00-00 Geoff.
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Made the separator (oil trap). Searching through my rubbish (H.W.M.B.'s word) for my stock of bits & pieces. I found an old drill case, Dremel type but must have been 60 years old. Consisting of a aluminium tube 1.5" diameter & 2.75 long. Cutting out 2 discs from sheet ali, just to big to fit into the tube. Placing them on the tube I beat them down until a tight fit. Putting convex at the top & concave at the bottom. Drilled holes for tubes then used liquid steel epoxy to stick it all together. For people who don't know steam, the entrance & exit tubes only enter the top by .25". The other tube goes to the bottom and is normally capped off. To empty the liquid after use shut the exit tube and uncap the long tube and steam pressure forces the residue out. Geoff
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Well done Geoff--I like the etched lines very much!!!
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY EDDY :birth Greg the etched lines are not my doing, they were on the drill case. Fitted the separator and steam pipe. But the boiler is still not back together, as before I need more heat. So will have to wait for my son or buy a big burner. Geoff
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Had to tidy up the hand pump feed and the blow down pipe work. Made some 90 degree bends from 1/2 inch sq bar. Turn a spigot on the end and thread, drill a hole in the side thread, then cut off. Need as much space as I can get to see the water gauge and get to the blow down valve. I also like the ball in the clack to seat by gravity, So that it seals before pressure builds in the boiler.
A photo of my pipe come wire bender, its older than me. I also use for tighter bends a hole in a piece of wood the size of the pipe with a slope to one side. As in the last photo, this works very well but the pipe must be annealed.
The boiler fixing brackets can be seen in the photos. The sight glass removed so I don't brake it so the fitting aren't in line. Geoff
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My method for operating the feathering on the paddles. Just a modified self taping screw through the sponson side. The mark to the right of the screw in the sponson marks the center of the shaft. Note the notches out off the floats as on the original Duke. Well I know someone :gathering is looking even if they have nothing to say. Geoff
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Hi PD's........ :whistle...& RGY says........."well I know someone is looking even if they have nothing to say"
:tongue1 ...don't be broken hearted RGY :clap ...we are watching each evening from afar...............
Have you read the number of views your build thread has?..........
20,986 views & 544 response messages.......you should be pretty proud................Derek :beer
PS ...even though your photography is ...say 4/10 ....:41
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Hi Geoff,
We are out here looking, just don't want to clutter up your thread.
Regards,
Gerald.
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A poor workman always blames his tools. So I am blaming the cheap video come stills camera. It is nice to have a response what ever is said. I must improve my snaps. :weight Geoff
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I never thought of mounting the feathering centre that way!
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Thanks Mick, I remember seeing your method, an excellent solution, :hammer but much to difficult for me.
What gave my the idea :thinking was I saw in a photo of an old paddler a plate bolted to the paddle box, which carried the pivot, on the inside.
I am afraid to post any more photos, as I thought Derek was far to generous with his score of 4 out of 10. Geoff
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No PD's..... :a102....we love your blurrrrrry images RGY..... :kiss1....BTW......the kiss was not for you but the images....... :beer
Keep them coming..........:c017..........Derek
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Just catching up -- had a few days off on holiday--The spectator stands are always full for you and the boat Geoff.. :bravo :clap
we will see you through..As summer has finally arrived here in earnest - I have been out paddling as much as I can ...Oh how I love the smell of steam oil in the air :yeahbaby
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Greg, It may be summer in Oregon, :vacation but its still winter here weather wise that is. Rain rain rain will it never end? :41 Not any thing to report but I have a photo I am hoping to get 6 out of 10 for. It shows a gas control valve and servo, I intend to fit this when the rest is sorted. :hammer :hammer Geoff
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7/10 ;)
Greetings from The Bombus
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Another dodgy photo. :sorry This is the connection for the navigation lights and the searchlight on the removable superstructure. Salvaged :crash from a speaker box, just press the button and insert the soldered end of the wire. Situated under the forward stair, the steps are removable as I intended having the gas tank there, and wished to access the tap. :squareone New plans for this in the last post. The battery wire not shown. Geoff
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Fixed a shelve to keep the receiver out of the way of any moisture. Will also rap it in cling film. Geoff
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My son has returned the boiler. How he can build thickness with silver solder I don't know, but he has. Will have to try and get it tested again now. Unfortunately my tester has moved away, so I have to find a different one. One who is not obsessed with trains. In the mean time I will have a steam up with the engine out of the model. (some time this week) Geoff
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Onward and pond-ward!!! :)
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There will be no steam up for a wile, had a bit of trouble with the pump. Mine that is not the steam plant. Had a free ride in an ambulance and 4 days in hospital good job we don't pay in the UK. Diagnosis posterial artery (to brain)completely blocked Fortunately for me the right front has taken up the job. Unfortunately for me this had also blocked 95%. Two stents fitted to front so feeling a lot better. The down side the boss has band me from the workshop for a few weeks. So it looks I will never get to the PADDLER DAY. Geoff Well not this Year again.
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Geoff,
Take care of your health first, there is always next year if you do.
Mend yourself quickly, then back into the build.
Take care
kiwi
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Hullo PD's......RGY......appears some will do anything for a free ride in an AMBO :tongue1
We all will miss your temporary workshop activities :crash :hammer :a102......
As Kiwi says....health & family first..... so OK, as the BOSS has said no workshop...but that dosn't include your PC :breakcomp
Get better soon...... :08
Derek
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Hi Geoff, Just do what the BOSS says . We will miss your poste but we would miss you even more.
old man
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Thank you my friends for your best wishes. :08 I was disappointed wanted a ride in the air ambulance. :darn Never mind feeling a hell of a lot better already. After having one artery useless and another only working 5%, when I have rested :vacation I think I'll be jumping over the moon. Have temporary withdrawn from captain of the bowling club,( will be drinking less) :beer so will have more time in the workshop. When I fined the key, :thinking where has she hidden it. When the grand kids come over we will have a game of fined the key. Geoff
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Sorry to hear you haven't been too well Geoff :16
Hopefully your on the mend now though.... All my best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Regards
Eddy
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Get well soon, Geoff.
regards
Clark
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Hi Geoff. Sorry to hear about your health. Hope you are getting better now.
Prentice.
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Thank you all. I feel a hell of a lot better :yeahbaby now than I have all this year. Just have to rest :vacation for a few weeks. It has been much worse for :kiss1 :kiss1 my wife, so she is making sure I do. :nono So I have nothing to report from the workshop. :hammer :hammer :hammer :hammer But I shall return. Geoff
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Just read and caught up Geoff...Prayers for a solid and full recovery!!
Sorry to hear about the not so free ride in the ambo- nothing will stop this paddler !
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I have had a look around the workshop :o ( when the boss was out). The jobs are mounting up I'm afraid, bits to mend for the house, bits to make for motorcycles. As for the model I had a good look ::) at the boiler?? I don't think I can present it at the model engineering club. What with the repair, the dent and the slight twist ( the latter two due to me :oops dropping it ). I have said before the club is very much railway orientated, so I must not let the boating fraternity down. I have tested it myself that will have to do, so only be operating in private. This is no great loss as it has only cost me time and gas. However I have ordered new copper and will have another go using the experience gained with the first. :hammer I have another year before paddler day 2013 if I ever make it. GEOFF
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Something to report at last. :sunglasses :sunglasses Lagged the boiler and made the casing. The lagging made from a soldering mat & the casing from a road sign. (NOT :nono STOLEN) Geoff
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Good to see you back in the workshop Geoff, looks like a good boiler you have there. ho do you obtain a road sign legally? :whistle
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Geoff,
All looks good to me ... i'm no steam expert ... but that doesn't mean you won't be missed at paddler day! .. I hope your not making excusses!
All the best,
Kim
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Kim, excuses!!! :sobbing :sobbing if I had my way I would be there, as I am feeling on top of the world now. But the boss says 6hours drive each way is to much at the moment.
Ian, It's not what you know but who you know. I have made some parts(classic motorbikes) for a friend of a friend and was payed in metal. Including a bronze prop shaft (bent ) 4ft x 1inch plus numerous bits of brass rod. Geoff
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Having tested the boiler hydraulically to 60psi, I have now set the safety valve to 20psi. (first photo). I did this by pumping air in with a foot pump, and adjusting the valve. Just to show you I but soapy water on the valve. The end of the boiler next, and finally a doggy photo for Derek. This shows the difference a red line makes to the visibility in the sight gauge. Geoff
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Hi PD's.... & .......:whistle
Never forget I am watching over you & your work RGY ... :tongue1
However more seriously...I do also have a RED line .......
:41....I have misplaced my 100 badge.... Derek :beer
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Amazing done. Very interesting construction. Extraordinarily, as I know.
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Kim adding to my fleet fat chance, The boss says no more until I sale one. That is why I have taken so long with the DUKE. Started Dec 2009, still not finished. My bowls team won 2 rinks & lost 2 lost over all so they have missed me, but we stay in the division.
The fleet consist of 2 paddlers (well almost) A Sailing Trawler, Pilot Cutter, west country trading Schooner and a small coaster. All in the 5 to 6 ft range except the coaster at 2 ft.
Back to the important stuff. I received new sight glass in the post today. I have to admit I broke the existing one when fitting the casing on the boiler. So hopefully will be steaming tomorrow. Geoff
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XrK4Mse-Uc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLjZCCbtlY Yes Thank you Derek for trying to look
I thought I had deleted these links, Sorry. I had a steam up and took two short videos. I will try to get the correct links posted when I have the time. The only troubles with the boiler & engine encountered, the blow down valve dripped water, the engine stated to tighten up after 15 minutes. Uneven expansion is me thinking????? after it cooled was ok. Geoff
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:a102 ...this all I get......An error occurred during validation. Sorry about that. :sobbing
Derek
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The links above are now working. :bravo The bottom one is the engine working, starting to tighten up. :darn Top is the blow down working, :clap I wasn't sure it would without a stop valve on the sight glass. :coffee :coffee Sorry its so short. :vacation
Just had a delivery 2.1/2 - 1.1/4 - 3/8 - 3/16 copper tube. :gift
Geoff
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Well back in the shop. :hammer :hammer Suffered this week from the after effects of my birthday bashes. :beer :beer :beer cider actualy.
Had along run with the new boiler. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN83wMzn6O0
A bit of a nak to get the burners lit, open up the door in the manifold, turn gas on low. Light will it burn in the manifold, blow gently down, the flame goes inside (sometimes). Shut the door and turn up the gas, then check with a flame at the top of the funnel, to make sure all the gas is burning in the fire tubes.
Ran for over half an hour at full throttle boiler held 20psi all the time, with half the water still in the boiler at the end.
A Few more runs and in the boat for more dry runs, before the launch.Geoff
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Hi Geoff I ope youm you baint be drinkin zider an runnin thick engine taint proper youd be proper maize. Thats
the extent of my Devonshire dialect Geoff I cant wait to see this thing on the water is the trail runs local or is that a secret keep us informed please.
Old Man
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I will let you know, but only you. :shhh :shhh geoff
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Hi PD's..... :whistle ...what is that change of tone RGY :crash @ 1.58 minutes? :ranting ....sounds like a diesel engine cutting in :41
After all these years .... :nahnah...I would have thought that I could also be privy to seeing a video of the maiden launch .... your colleague in OZ......Derek :beer
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Sorry about the knocking engine :sorry Derek. She isn't running like she did and I don't know :thinking why. If the day ever comes when the Duke is lanched :beer and old man is there I will let him use my cheep old camara to post a video just for :respect :respect you. Geoff
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Just read Model Boats mag for November. The story of Queen Alexandra (model), started 1996 still not completed, but has taken to the water. Trials & tribulations, first the Westbury diagonal & boiler to heavy, new boiler, not enough steam, turbines in & out, twin oscillator, final configuration. Trouble firing the boiler. tried coal, paraffin, gas tube & finally ceramic.
As I am only stating my fourth year in December (on the Duke) I don't feel so bad now. The builder even installed a electric motor at one stage. Something I have contemplated often. For the present problem is I can only find size 5 gas jets anywhere. I need size 3s for the area of the fire tubes in the present boiler, that's why thoughts of another boiler. Geoff. PS I broke my camera playing with the grand children. (to rough)
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Hi PD's...... :whistle ....don't feel too bad about your slow construction RGY...... my vessel :shhh is twelve years old & has not seen water yet..... :oops
She just sits there with me adding bits :crash ...waiting for my retirement :41
This Sunday I am hosting my six grandchildren [& their parents :darn] to the Illawarra Light Rail & Steam day so should all be good fun.....I hope my camera survives the day........Derek :beer
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Just read Model Boats mag for November. The story of Queen Alexandra (model), started 1996 still not completed, but has taken to the water.
15 years makes you a driven
machine Geoff!
Hi PD's...... :whistle ....don't feel too bad about your slow construction RGY...... my vessel :shhh is twelve years old & has not seen water yet..... :oops
She just sits there with me adding bits :crash ...waiting for my retirement :41
This Sunday I am hosting my six grandchildren [& their parents :darn] to the Illawarra Light Rail & Steam day so should all be good fun.....I hope my camera survives the day........Derek :beer
Derek, nice to see progress .. your a machine too, but the boiler needs firing more often! lol look forward to seeing more!
Regards,
Kim
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Sorry Kim I am only a clockwork toy, 3 years on the Duke. The Queen Alex is not mine. My problem with the burners I found by accident, after getting the flames settled I happened to pass the lighter over the funnel. This revealed a blue flame about an inch above the funnel so not all the gas is burning inside the fire tubes. Excess gas could build up in the bilges BANG !!! Searched the net for size 3 jets to no avail, if only I could drill a 0.15mm hole. So it looks like I will have to make a boiler with 28mm tubes instead of 22mm as present. One more option I will try to make a gas regulator, with help from the down load section.
On a happier note I do like :clap the look of your steam plant Derek. Geoff
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Could you find some 0.15mm SS wire? Drill the smallest hole you can in a blank the same shape as your jets, insert the wire and use a center punch to close the hole down around the wire then pull the wire out.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Thank you Gerald for the suggestion, lateral thinking can be good. I have number 5 & 8 jets could they be partially blocked, I am thinking :thinking . When I was working (as a carpenter)it was rumoured :gathering if I couldn't do it with a hammer :hammer :hammer I couldn't do it at all. Unfortunately I require 2 jets working from the same canister, so they have to be absolutely identical. Even the propriety jet had to be changed until I found a matching pair. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
I can't remember where it was but someone suggested using Watch (Jewel)Bearings for the hole in homemade jets. I haven't tried it, but the idea stuck in my head, If I find where I came across it I will post a link. I did find some size reference;
"Melting point is about 2,050˚ C. Low relative cost. Typically, a jewel bearing costs 20% as much as a ball bearing and 10% as much as a flexural pivot. Tight concentricities, to 0.0002 in. in most cases. Small sizes for compact designs. Shafts can be as small as 0.006-in, diameter, but more typically range from 0.02 to 0.125-in. diameter."
http://www.birdprecision.com/PDFs/jewelbearings.pdf
Regards,
Gerald.
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Gerald thanks for the inspiration, jewelers supplies have 0.15mm drills. At a cost of course, would have to be very careful not to brake it (them). Although its only the final exit that has to be .15mm. I have the brass hexagon rod, the die, all I need is the nerve.
Having almost finished a gas regulator, just need a suitable membrane now. I will experiment with this first. Sorry no pictures as my camera is kaput. The BOSS is buying me a good one for Christmas. Geoff
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Hi PDs..... :whistle...& my mate [RGY :tongue1] asks .......just need a suitable membrane now...
RGY... just PM your postal address & I will post over a 12" x 12" sheet of 1/8" thick neoprene sheet for you
:beer ......Derek ....but :shhh
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Hi PD's....... sorry :41 ....I try to help with 1/8" [0.125"] neoprene :s_cool....then the call is for 0.039370078" thick material :ranting
:16......in OZ we haven't made a machine that can count that little [to the ninth decimal place] ....... Derek..... :c002
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Derek. You obviously got my PM thank :trophy you. .039 would be near enough for me. I have found a piece of car inner tube @ 1.20 thick that is working OK. :terrific
I must get a camera. :kewlpics
You are up early or is up late. Geoff
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Still no camera got to wait for my Christmas present. ( Hope its better than the last ). But when I have it I will take photos of the gas pressure regulator. It is working well so no need for number 3 jets. A word of warning to anyone making a gas line(obvious really) be scrupulously clean. I used secondhand 1/8" pipe big misstake. :oops :oops :41 :41 As it don't take much to mess up the jets, and nothing to clear them out. Took me 10 days to work out why the regulator wouldn't work. :sobbing :sobbing
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Well I have my new :gift camera. :yeahbaby Because I have been a good boy, I have been completing jobs for the big boss. :respect I hope you will consider the picture quality is much better than the old one.Derek . It shows the gas regulator. The OZ on the can is the weight when full, will weigh when empty so I can tell percentage left Geoff
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..... :s_cool Beautiful ...you have been a good boy :crash :kewlpics .... :whistle .....
Don't be fooled into thinking that "OZ" is some form of unit of mass or weight...as we all understand :gathering it an abbreviation for Australia ....... so for the life of me I don't understand :a102 its doing on your gas can ....Derek :tongue1
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OZ represents ounces the 8 is around the side and cant be seen. I must be more careful in the future. Don't want you getting ideas above your station. Just stay :s_cool . I may video the control I have with the regulator just need 3 hands again. Your friend Geoff
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The regulator before assembly, only the car valve in place.
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Measuring in Grams, full canister weighs 275g. When down to 125g I will use the remainder on the blow torch. Geoff
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Nice regulator!!!
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Well I have sorted the boiler & burners at last. I have been working on the engine now that has started to stop when running on slow, and not self staring after. Well as the saying goes if it ain't broke don't fix it. :shoot :shoot :shoot Some people never learn. So it comes apart again. I think the pistons have worn and steam is getting by. So cutting a grove & adding graphite packing. Also fitted new bearings. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
the packing and bearings certainly wont hurt, at least its best now than when everything has been finished good luck with the mods :sunglasses
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Well I have been on the Engine Builders web site. :gathering The consensus of opinion is that heat expansion is the problem. :gathering Yes this has happened since I lagged the cylinders. :41 So I will be lapping the pistons again, :hammer :hammer :hammer for more clearance. So the piston will be loose the graphite forming the seal. Living in hope that will cure the problem. Geoff
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I have been following it over there also. Good luck with :goodluck
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Is there no place to hide, Pee Wee? Well all thet advice and nothing any good. I thing I will Install it all in the Duke and run at full power. Geoff
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I have found the trouble with the steam engine at last. In the photo it can be seen I have removed the side of the bigends. This was done because there is not enough room for the crank, gear and bearings. When I have a problem with the port faces leaking steam I removed quite a bit of metal. I thought there was still room but no touching in one place and forcing the port faces apart. Leting out enough steam to stop it at slow revs. I will be soldering on a thicker port face, making new bigends. Geoff
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Seeing as things a quiet on Paddleducks. I am starting a new Build thread Compton Castle
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Glad you have found the problem Geoff :beer :beer
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Is no one building anything as it is very quiet on Paddleducks. I have noticed people are looking though, as this thread has had 161, in the last 7 days. But Totnes Castle only 12.
Sorry to say the Duke has still not done any serous sailing, I have not been good of late. Ran her up in the workshop (the engine) ;D and I am considering changing the gears for a belt & pulley, as the gears are a bit noisy. Geoff
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Hi Geoff we have an extension at Creely till the end of Feb. Hope to see you there Roger
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Roger, The weather will have to improve, although we have on snow here. Still long john cold out there I am staying in the workshop.
I have been looking on Exeter club web site just waiting for some good news. Geoff
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Hi PD's.....RGY....you say....'I am considering changing the gears for a belt & pulley, as the gears are a bit noisy' :a102
Is there no way to quiten down the gear noise?......is the noise really from the gears or the alignment or shaft supporting structure?
I posed a similar question to the builder of the model Alaska on Mayhem........you will have read the posting :whistle
We all understand than unwanted mechanical noise can be off putting :picknose, however could you isolate & eliminate the noise issue you have as gearing is much more visually prototypical than having elastic bands on a steam drive :tongue1
Derek :beer
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Derek. Running the plant out of the boat, the noise is not bad at all, but the hull is acting as a sounding board. Perhaps I will do as you say and try to insulate the sides with soldering mat, this will also protect the timber, in the water should improve matters as well. Geoff
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Hi R.G.Y.,
If you can also isolate the engine/boiler base plate from the hull, this will stop transmitted noise through the structure. Rubber mounts similar to those provided for servo mounting will work fine. Just do not over tighten. That takes care of the conducted component of your noise.
Then your radiated sound can be dampened by internal hull insulation.
Simply doing one or the other will only partially dampen the noise, both should effectively eliminate most.
regards
kiwi
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Kiwi,Absolutely right, but the problem is any flexing and the gears I am using will disengage. :sobbing This is because the paddle shaft is fixed to the hull sides, the restricted space prevents me installing a separate frame. However I do have another set of gears.( see the arrow ). these will tolerate more movement, I was going to use them in Totnes Castle, but we will see. :thinking :thinking
I payed a visit to my model engineering club last night. :gathering The way things are going with the boiler new regulations looks terminal for boats. the secretary is posting me a copy. I will know more when I have read them myself. There was one bit of good news the inspector said it is OK to use Rothenberger-Rolot S2 rods, less than a quarter of the price of silver solder, and no flux. :picknose I may be going all electric. Geoff
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R.G.C.
to isolate for vibration, you don't need soft very flexible rubber of polyurethane elastimers.
quite hard elastimers work just as well. Even ones that you have difficulty compressing between your fingers, or denting with your nail.
the original type used in the bushes of car shock absorber/engine mounts or even better the red polyurethane used as after market bushes for the same thing. These will have negligible deflection
They only need to be a mm or two thick to work. Just make sure the mounting bolts to the hull don't touch the engine or base plate. A thin blanket of sound insulation inside the hull, especially under the base plate and your done. Don't forget underside of deck either, but you knew that. ;)
cheers
kiwi
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Hi Geoff,
Now i'm not going to confess to knowing the answer to the noise problem, however i'm now a fan of Funky Foam ... I love the name, bought a piece and then chopped it up on the laser cutter ... bit like a witch hunt .. if it chops up nice its good if it doesn't it goes in the bin and wasn't good and never sees the light of day again...
Anyway.. I had a problem with sound in my Volcano set up, cut a 'gasket' between motor and mount - sound reduced
funky foam gasket between mount & hull ... sound reduced further .. great :)
The frustrating bit is the unit made no sound when run outside the hull...
But in my simple mind i managed to see the similarity between a hull and a speaker enclosure ... simple engineering from a simple mind lol ...
My vote would still go with chain / belt over gears ... more forgiving to the simple engineer (me)
All the best,
Kim
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hope this helps explain better
kiwi
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Guys........there is a third possibility here in the actual cause of the resonance :a102
1. Could the original engine plate not be sufficiently bonded to the hull?
2. If this bond is minimal, vibration/resonance could be amplified by the hull plates/structure :porkies
3. Adding resillance between the offending element & the hull is literally just masking the root cause
Derek
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Hi Derek,
The source of the vibration being better bonded to the hull, will result in a better sound transmission to the sounding box, ie the hull. Even though doing this will eliminate extra vibration caused by a loose connection.
To make it quieter we need to isolate the source from the box, in both transmitted and radiated sound.
Transmission path needs to be broken, but equally important radiated needs to be dampened as well.
And heat insulation doesn't always work on Sound.
cheers
kiwi
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Hi PD's...... :whistle ...kiwi & RGY......this is an interesting subject & I do not want to bog up the thread but it may help
As I see this...we have 3 potential choices
1. eliminate the cause of the noise = eliminate the gears & revert to a silent belt drive
2. isolate the noise = accept that is there & attempt to disguise it by resilisience... it has been accepted that the gearing is not an issue out of the hull
3. harness the noise = accept that it is there & remove the resonance ...absorb the noise through rigidity ......it has been accepted that the gearing is not an issue out of the hull
Derek
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Thank you all for your input most helpful. :08 :beer Derek how could you possible BOG up this thread ( no tomato sause here) :06 Geoff
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R.G.Y. and Derek,
Am doing some research after looking back to see your layout, will get back tomorrow evening, kiwi time.
Have to check something at work
cheers
HarryD
:o
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Hi Pd's....... :whistle ...RGY.....if you need some extra...just call...we have plenty over here :hehe .......Derek
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Kiwi .To save you time here are two photos which show the setup.
I have always known Derek had plenty of sause :shhh :hehe :hehe. Geoff
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Hi Guys.
R.G.Y., thanks for posting the photos, gives me a much better idea of the problem, and hopefully some solutions to same.
Now, some assumptions.
The engine runs relatively silently when out of the boat, on the bench.
You have run the engine without the deck secured or screwed down, and its noisy.
Even on the water with deck on and secured its still very noisy.
One disadvantage I have is not being able to hear the noise, which would give a good idea of what's producing it.
Ok, on thing for a start is the gears you gave are straight cut steel ones, and as such are inherently noisy in themselves.
A solution to this is to change to the coarser pitch (larger teeth) gear set. but replace one of these gears with a gear of different material. I would recommend a glass reinforced nylon (or Delrin) pinion, to match the larger driven gear.
This will make the noise generated by the gear train diminish to acceptable levels.
The gear noise is being transmitted in my opinion by the paddle shaft through the two bearings to the sides, which are unsupported along the top edge, and acting as a sound board, similar to the sounding box on guitars, etc. The whole engine / boiler compartment (in common with most model boats ) is the sound box.
The minor path for sound from the gear train is via the engine mounting plate, securely screwed to the bottom. The bottom should be somewhat dampened by the water surface on the bottom of the hull, and think its the sides which are the main transmitting surface to air.
If you can fix the gear-train first, then let us know if the boat is still too noisy and go further from there.
Hope this is of some help
cheers
kiwi
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Harry D. Yes I think :thinking the coarser gears are the way to go. beside being quieter they will allow some movement, so a soft fixing can be fitted. Having said that it will be on the back burner for a bit. :vacation Geoff
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Earlier in this thread there was some discussion :gathering on the anchoring procedure and the equipment. I decided on a simple steam capstan on the foredeck, as could be seen in photos of the aft deck. Looking through a book in my own :goodnews library I found the photo below. It is of the Consul ex Duke of Devonshire in 1938 the year of her name change, not too many alterations then. The top of the capstan can be seen, also a samson post which I have :ranting missed out. The samson post makes me think the anchor was on a rope (hawser) not a chain ??? Especially looking at the amount of rope about the deck. Geoff
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Sitting watching rubbish on TV :c002 :41 !!! Thinking of when i can get back in the shop. The jobs are mounting up, made a list number one must finish the Duke in time for the spring. I will fit the new gears & add insulation under the engine plate. I also need another gas regulator to adjust the two burners seperatly. At the moment one will starve the other. But only when the fingers heal over. Geoff
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Hi PD's.... & we hope the fingers are healing OK RGY......... :towel ....
On all current day OZ paddlers the wheel timber floats always appear grey & split & waterlogged :hammer .....however I am impressed with the natural tone & hue of your wheel floats as below...... :clap
May I ask what type of wood have you used here & what preparation for immersion in the briney?..........Derek :beer
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Wood is just 5mm ply, the finish a mix of light oak & wallnut stain, final coat of mat varnish. I tried to emulate elm an ideal wood in salt water. Will we get up to 27000 hits next week. Geoff
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14 days since my accident and I have been in the shop, :great just for half an hour. I am starting another gas regulator, as explained I need to regulate both jets separately. I also have to reduce the pressure as No 3 gas jets seem to be unobtainable, so No5 is what I have to use. I have 22mm fire tubes, with full pressure not all the gas is burning in the boiler, if I had used 28mm I would not have had this problem. I had down loaded Malcolm Beak's article from the down load section on this site, using this with a few alterations for my effort.
My ( rubbish ) camera had broken when I made the last one so this time I will show some. from the bottom the car tyre valve, any tyre fitter should give them away. We need the short type, removed be the tool made from a nail. the rubber cut away and a 1/4 40 tpi (my mod)cut in its place. At the top the first complete regulator.
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After centre drilling bored out the pocket, I marked out for the bolt holes. Made sure the 5/16+32thread was deep enough. Posted this to show my bargain depth gauge, a cheep tyre tread gauge £10. also note the glove protecting damaged fingers. Turned the spigot with the parting tool, then parted off, the tool is upside down & lathe running in reverse. I repeated the process to mke the other piece, no need to mark the bolt holes & the thread is larger than the in the first, this time 10mm coarse so just enlarge. But did not part off. Drilled the holes for the bolts in the first piece the super glue together and drill the other the tap 6BA. Then part off then screw together. more tomorrow. Geoff
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Please, PLEASE, PLEASE be careful if your doing turning with a glove on Geoff! I dread to think of the outcome if it gets caught up in the lathe!
Regards
Eddy
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Thank you Eddy for your concern. :c017 I will keep my hands on the handles I can promise you that. Being aware of the danger is the best defence. I was not prepared for the danger with the linnisher. :c002 But I am now it won't catch me again ever. Geoff
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Drilling the gas passage. 1&2 Tapping the same 1/4+40 (with my home made tapping stand)3. Brass tube threaded in, because there is only a short thread I also stuck it with JB Weld. 4. Important the pressure plate must be just below the membrane or level with it. 5. The pieces ready for assembly, I have show 2 adjusters so you can see both ends. Geoff
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I forgot to say the adjuster & the pressure plates are just a simple turning job. One more thing I did was to run an end mill around the bolt holes to level the seats. Geoff
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Well the Duke has had 4 outings in steam, without a certificate. :shhh!!! With the change in the rules as of 1/1/13/ if I want to sail in public I am :thinking thinking it is all to much trouble, Just for one or two shows. So have removed the steam plant (temporary) and going electric. I was given an old RC truck the motor & gear box fitted on to the steam plant fixings, making them interchangeable. Only four nuts & four screws to change over.
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Having tested the boiler hydraulically to 60psi, I have now set the safety valve to 20psi. (first photo). I did this by pumping air in with a foot pump, and adjusting the valve. Just to show you I but soapy water on the valve. The end of the boiler next, and finally a doggy photo for Derek. This shows the difference a red line makes to the visibility in the sight gauge. Geoff
Hi Geoff,
I had to look back to last August to find the post I wanted. Having tested your Boiler already what would be the obstacles to getting a Boiler Certificate? it would be a shame not to be able to steam the Duke in public.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Thanks for keeping an eye on me Gerald. As you have no doubt seen the mess I made when I drilled a hole in the fire tube. The new boiler inspector (new to the job a bit keen) is not happy with the repair, although the inspector who moved away was OK with it. I do have the materials (inspector wants to see them ) to make a new boiler some time. Geoff
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Update on the Duke. New Boiler well on the way the bridge pipes between the two boiler shells, need more heat to solder that's a lot of copper. Waiting for my sons Oxy gas set to complete. I need advice on the new burner. Lights with a nice blue flame, but as the ceramic starts to glow red the flam turns yellow. is this normal?? Geoff
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Hi PD's......& thinking RGY......... :whistle
When No1 Son arrives with his oxy acetylene set.......perform a test with the hand burner torch piece
1. light the acetylene = orange/red flame & soot
2. add increasing oxygen flow until = bluish flame
From this we could question if your new burner is suffering from a lack of oxygen :shhh
Does your new burner have some sort of sliding orifice disc to alter or regulate the amount of oxygen that is able to be drawn in?..........Derek
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I was sure I could rely on you for an answer Derek. The primary air is OK, the burner is a copy of a Cheddar burner as I have in Glen Usk. I have had an answer on another site, saying Sodium partials in the burner could be the yellow. I think this could be right as what ever air gas mix it only goes Yellow when the ceramic glows red. With the burner in the boiler the end of the flame ( all that I can see) is blue. So all is well. The reason I ran out of No:5 jets they got blocked!! I used PTFE on the threads I have been told the gas can de solve PTFE & block the .15mm hole.
I have brazed ( no flux )the boiler as opposed to silver solder. I have used Rothenburger-Rolot S2 cost 70 British pence per stick. I don't want to know the cost of silver solder.
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The burner is not quite the same as a Cheddar, I blocked the end of the tube with an old coin. Saved me cutting a disc & added some bling.
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:shhh ....a 1905 half penny :whistle ....wouldn't be the first coin soldered in as a disk........ :sunglasses ......Derek
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No 1 has been in & soldered up the rest of the boiler. :clap Got the burners sorted with regulator for each this time. Just need to make some plugs. Club night next Friday, :beer show the inspector & arrange a test date?
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WOW......is that the brass brazing or silver soldering?......a lot of metal there....will be interested in the inspectors :police: comments .....Derek
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Derek. Copper brazing, I had cleared it with the inspector before using. At 70p per stick, if I had to buy it (Rothenburger-Rolot S2 with.5% silver) You no I am careful with money.
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Almost finish the new boiler, quite a few improvements (I hope). First one inch shorter to give a little more room at the paddle shaft end.
Gone is the coffin shaped manifold, now have an inner & outer. The inner will direct the gasses around the steam drum & prevent the outer getting to hot. 8mm sight glass should be more reliable than the 5mm. Fitted an overflow with a removable cap for filling to the correct level, will be removing the safety valve & filling from a Thermos, only using the clack to maintain level. The case in position with the electric setup 4 screws all it takes to change over.
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Hi PD's.......& hullo RGY....... :kewlpics
1. In MBM, I saw the thick soldering blanket that you will use.......is it a woven glass type material?
2. Does this get wrapped around the boiler shells or adhered to the inside surface of the pressed metal case?........
3. Will you use any wooden [or other] lagging on the externals of the metal case?
4. Maintaining water level via a clack valve........will this be via a manual hand pump?......
Derek :beer
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Thanks Derek. :beer The insulation Is probably glass fibre or a mineral of some kind. I took a strand about 12mm long and played my mapp gas touch on it for 5 mins before it became liquid, the same time the edge of the insulation block I have as a hearth, did the same. The boiler will sit on and be rapped in the soldering mat. it will be resting on the inner manifold & one layer stuck to the inside of the outer. As for wood on the outside of the case we will wait and see. I do have a bucket full of long coffee sticks. Don't tell Costa. I will only be using a hand pump until I can get a reliable automatic level censer. Then I can refit the engine driven pump & bypass valve. I am going in the shop now to make a new saftey valve. Post pictures soon. Geoff
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Safety valve complete. Start by finding 2 balls, spring & hexagon brass stock. Thread the bar & drill hole (approximately 3mm smaller than the ball) right through. Turn the stock around drill hole ( 3mm larger than the ball) stop about 5mm from the shoulder, (end of thread). Finish the hole with a D bit. Drill down to just over half the ball size sing tapping size drill, tap down as far as you like. Place a ball in the hole give it ONE firm tap (rod or punch), through that ball away. Next thread & tap the adjuster & lock nut, leaving on the stock for now. I do this so I can mill the slots, but have done after with a hacksaw. Turn-up the plunger be careful with the thin part, after parting off run a drill to form a hollow. Profile the main body. As I tapped down the body further than needed I can trim the top of the body to increase the pressure. when tested using a compressor. Done in 3 hours.
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RGY....thanks ..I understand the relief valve construction :whistle ...
1. what is the intended steam relief valve setting?
2. is this governed or dictated by the discussions you held with the boiler inspector...prior to construction?
3. do you use the manual water pump to hydrostatically set the relief valve?
4. are you going to place the RED line on the boiler pressure gauge?
The reason I ask this last question is that I damaged a 1" pressure gauge ....[I think beyond repair :c002] in my attempt to remove the gauge outer bezel to inscribe the 45 PSI RED line marking......Derek
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Derek. Safety valve setting will be 25psi. As you know any more and it will tend to lift the cylinders off the port face with an oscillator.
When I was showing the inspector my calculations I could go beyond 100psi. But we will be pressurising to 50psi on test.
The inspector will be checking the gauge at the steam test & marking the red line. I could cheat if not couldn't I. I will set it using my compressor gauge beforehand. I am sure you know all about relief valves, I was just showing how clever I was. :16
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I see people are still looking at my blog 42,300 plus. 2014/11/ 15.
A short update, the Duke only had three outings this summer 2014. I have been otherwise engaged, and the club I did belong to lost there sailing water, the new water is no suitable for sailboats my main interest. I have sailed with steam not electric in the river Teign estuary. The tide runs fast so can only sail at slack water. Only one modification wanted, the flexible membrane, in the 2 gas regulators. Cut from inner tube, Although synthetic it became inflexible & hard.
I have replaced it with cut outs from balloons, must be the type for hydrogen gas. Keep looking Geoff
PS Just seen on the net the sail boys have found a reservoir to sail on. So may get more trips out this winter.
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Are you useing comercial Gas regulators or diy ones?
Regards,
Gerald.
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Just go back to page 43, Gerald. How I made them is there. Based on Malcolm Beck's idea which is in the download section. Maybe too much in my blog, good job I never included the original boiler build.
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Right I rememmber it now, isn't CRAFT Syndrome great not only do you get to meet new frends all the time, but you get to reread things as if they were new.
Regards,
Gerald.
PS CRAFT Syndrome stands for Can't Rememmber A Flipping Thing or growing old and looseing you memery
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I have been looking on Paddleducks, but have had nothing to say for a long time. Now I have news of the Duke. Has she been in a collision with another vessel or the pier head????
NO I have fallen on top of her.
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R.G.Y. I hope you suffered no injury during this small misfortune.
The damage doesn't appear too severe, so do you think it shouldn't take to long to repair.
cheers
Kiwi
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Kiwi, I could always leave it, dose look realistic. I am uninjured, gave the grandson a fright though. I have been very unsteady on my legs of late. I wouldn't mind but I hadn't touched a drop. RGY
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R.G.Y.
good to hear no injuries sustained.Maybe therein lies the problem, as my Grandfather was want to say, -"just a wee dram, now and then, to steady things up."
Kiwi
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ALL REPAIRED. THAT IS WHAT I THOUGH. BUT LOOKING AT THE PHOTO I HAVE FORGOTEN THE CHAINS HOLDING DOWN THE LIFEBOAT.
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I have removed the steam plant for an experiment. It only takes 4 screws & 4 nuts, the rest just pulls apart. I have fitted a motor & gearbox from a model monster truck. As it also has a diff I have added brakes operated by the rudder control. Will let you know if it works.
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RGY......from 22,000 km away it looks like a homemade :hammer CVT.....[continuously variable transmission]....... :hehe......Derek
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more like a temporary bodge, just to see if it works.
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Over 100,000 views thanks for looking. R.G.Y.
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:clap :clap :clap
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Just an up date to say the electric installation works very well. I was dubious about driving the one paddle would cause the boat to list, even turn over. It also increases the turn rate. The only downside it tends to crab before turning.