Paddleducks

Other Marine Models => Live steam => Topic started by: birlinn on July 24, 2023, 06:09:43 AM

Title: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on July 24, 2023, 06:09:43 AM
Drawings done, at 1:48- the original was 202 feet long. Will order a load of ply and strip tomorrow.
These paddlers had such shallow draft- the original only drew 4' 8".
To get my boiler in, and to get a decent displacement, I have had to drop the keel by 1", or 4 feet to scale.
Not noticeable in the water....
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on July 27, 2023, 08:40:23 PM
Just spoken to Jerry at Clevedon Steam; I am thinking of using their 'Virgo' paddle engine/boiler combo.
Apparently this needs gearing down 3:1 at the paddles, but found, and ordered, a neat belt drive set-up from Amazon with the right shaft size for the motor.
Now awaiting delivery of £144 worth of ply and stripwood....
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on July 27, 2023, 09:22:21 PM
Hi Birlinn,

very interesting and elegant boat, looks similar to a smaller edition of "Columba". The gear reduction engine to paddleshaft of 3 : 1 seems good also at my own experiences. A scale of 1 : 48 will give a lenght of 128 cm - this will be ok, but you should build rather light with thin materials and also light superstructure. I will post soon some pictures of my steamdriven paddlers.

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on July 31, 2023, 05:35:29 AM
Just ordered the engine/boiler combo from Clevedon.
Already got a very neat 1:3 cogged belt drive from Amazon.
Still wondering whether to have a go at feathering paddles- the diameter is only 110 mm.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on August 01, 2023, 04:18:53 AM
Belt drive looks good, will be a sufficient connexion between engine and paddle shaft. Most i`ve used cogwheels for connexion, but the distance between the cogwheels must be very precise.
I will post some more examples of the gear reduction at my steam driven paddlers.

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on August 07, 2023, 03:55:52 AM
Start made- now to sort out the stern!
Sides will be  0.8 mm ply; bilges 2 layers 0.4 mm ply.
Lines are are very much a guess, to get the extra draft needed.
The floor tiles are 300 mm square, to give you an idea of the size.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on August 09, 2023, 02:25:20 AM
Clevedon Steam gear arrived today- looks very good.
THe hull looks very skinny, in spite of the increased draught- time to check the calcs!

Will be a slight delay- my 2CV has a worrying oil leak to be sorted.

ETA: checked the displacement- 6.05 kg, which is what I got last time. Phew!
Need to keep the model minus gear down to 3.7 kg- should be OK.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on August 09, 2023, 06:52:19 AM
Must admit I was wondering about the available freeboard, as the hull does look very slender  :shhh, but that ballpark 60/40, to 50/50 displacement sounds reassuring and typical for our Paddler steam models of this design

However the total weight [displacement] of the steam plant & drive & paddles of 2.35kg sounds questionable

Will be watching the build progress  :hammer

Derek

[PS.....a 2CV leaking?.....you are in good company, as Thomas also has a Citroen]
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on August 17, 2023, 02:22:38 AM
With a bit of shuffling, the steam gear fits, just.
But everything is still too tight- the main steam pipe from the boiler will require a bit of hacking for clearance.
I was trying to keep a screened off boiler and engine room enclosure from the deck saloon, with a walkway on both sides, but this is looking increasingly impractical.
So current idea is to put black or reflective glass in most of the deck saloon windows, to screen the gear inside.The side walkways were forming a stiff H section stringer at deck level to the central box.
I think i will omit this, and give a bigger opening with carbon fibre  tubes either side to keep the stiffness to the box. Could even be lighter...

As far as weights go, the set up as shown is 2.57 kg; allowing 0.5 kg for water and gas, I will still have around 3 kg left for the build.
The 0.8 mm ply sides seem plenty stiff enough for the box, ditto the bilges  which are two laminations of 0.4 mm ply.
The carbon mast is a mere 7 grammes, the alloy funnel 32 grammes, but I am not happy with it. It was a bit of old vacuum machine pipe, and has a swage at the end which annoys me. I have another bit of pipe- but 56 grammes..
Paddle shaft is now also carbon; will have chromed brass/brass bearing tubes.

What do you experts think?
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on August 28, 2023, 12:03:05 AM
Still waiting for some more ply and strip wood to get the basic hull, so I played around with the funnel.
It's made from thin aluminium tube from an old vacuum cleaner, and was a real fiddle to get the M1 nuts on to the eye bolts down the funnel.
Thinking how to tidy that gap at the base...
PS: already touched up that missing paint on the back of the steam pipe.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on September 07, 2023, 06:51:25 PM
Basic hull done, but a lot of filling and fettling yet!
0.8 mm ply has its limitations, so planking used in areas.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on September 08, 2023, 02:30:08 AM
Looks really good, Birlinn!

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on September 09, 2023, 04:43:14 AM
Just weighed the hull- 650 grammes so far.
I recon it will be about 1.7 kg all in.
I can't see the steam plant and R/C gear weighing much more than 2.7 kg, so even rounding those figures up a bit, it looks like plenty of ballast will be needed.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on September 11, 2023, 07:09:00 PM
In every case it`s better to add some ballast at the deepest point of the hull, than too much weight of engine and boiler. What is the relation between lenght and breadth of the hull? When I look at the pictures, I guess this relation will be ok. One should avoide too narrow hulls - the nautic stability may be not sufficient.

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on September 16, 2023, 02:29:25 AM
Slow progress, but today I drilled the portholes.
Next up the basic sponson platforms, then the fun bit- the feathering paddles.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on September 27, 2023, 01:43:39 AM
Hull nearly there, and a start made on the feathering paddles.
They will not be a quick job!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on October 06, 2023, 01:02:34 AM
First wheel finished...
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on October 06, 2023, 02:09:25 AM
It fits!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on October 07, 2023, 09:51:45 PM
Looks very well. Even the paddlewheel seems exact and neat build. Go on, Birlinn!

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on December 02, 2023, 11:22:38 PM
After being out of action with a bout of shingles, I have now done a bit more.
The feathering paddle wheels are ready for eventual installation- note the 3:1 cogged belt drive pulley. Weight 186 grammes.
Rudder hinges and pushrod next.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Eddy Matthews on December 03, 2023, 03:44:39 AM
A very neat job Birlinn, looking forward to the next update...

P.S. I know from personal experience just how painful shingles can be!!!

Regards
Eddy
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on December 04, 2023, 05:08:32 AM
Neat build - will be a good and interesting model!

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: chewbacca on December 05, 2023, 01:49:45 AM
Magnifiques roues , très fines. :respect   
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on December 09, 2023, 07:54:46 AM
Rudder now hinged, and pushrod installed. This is 1.5 mm carbon fibre tube; the 1 mm wire to the tiller is a nice push fit, and will eventually get a dab of cyano.
I have just fitted 40 portholes, and painted the lower hull- will post a pic when finished up to gunwales.
Wish I could have posted a smaller pic- looks rough when enlarged!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 02, 2024, 03:28:31 AM
Been trying to post, but no luck.
Test run- will add pics if successful!
OK- here goes.
Looking at pics, there is an odd detail. The vent over the engine room seems to be sailcloth or something similar and translucent, on a light wooden frame- see pic with lady.
There seem to be two panels, which could open up butterfly fashion- see pic of stern view.
I should imagine these would only be opened when in port, to give extra light and ventilation. There doesn't seem much fall when closed...I think the adjacent circulation area must have obtained light, via borrowed light windows in the engine room enclosure.
The other mystery was how they manage to fill the bunkers, with full width saloons over. I think the hoppers were on the sponsons, and promenade deck- see my sketches on the plans. I don't know why the pic turned through 90 degrees! It is normal if you click on to enlarge.
Any comments?
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on January 02, 2024, 12:54:00 PM
Compliments of the season

With respect to the FWD coal hopper chutes [scuttles], the Elevation drawing view does not show any detail, however the level of Drawing detail at this period could always be considered lacking, as additional detail may well have been included on alternate Drawings

Coal hoppers 'scuttles'  appear generally to be round cast iron lids [totally removable] and over a cast iron ring to the actual chutes to the coal bunker location lower in the hull close-by the boiler location, and equally placed on Stdb & Port sides of vessels

Traditionally, to maintain the water-tight integrity of the hull, these scuttles were installed within the footprint of the hull. Placing a scuttle over a sponson would bring in all sorts of complications re, maintaining water-tightness

There are many photographs of coal as loaded...[say a cubic yard] dumped on the wooden deck, and Boiler or Deck Hands shovelling the coal over and into the scuttle chute

Derek
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 03, 2024, 05:18:40 AM
Hi Derek;
Hapy New Year!

I think the two side bunkers were filled from the promenade deck, with chutes down through the main decK alongside the engine room casing.
The enclosed pic, taken after the bridge was moved forward in 1926, shows a serious trip hazard in the foreground. I think this was the scuttle for chucking the bunker coal in. Sorry it isn't round!
How the larger bunker was filled I dunno- any better theory?  :)
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on January 03, 2024, 09:00:03 AM
Birlinn

Checking [via Scottish Built Ships register] to see if Fusilier had a sister build, did not throw any light....just the one listing of her Registration of her Official Number of 95065

Searching this Scottish Built database or Fusilier provides one image of a similar-looking vessel probably during War service? with an additional FWD reinforced [bomb blast] Bridge?????...

According to the database, Fusilier [ON 95065], was renamed in 1943 to Lady Orme, and in 1937 to Crestwave. Both as Lady Orme, and Crestwave, the vessel maintained the newer Fwd bridge as added to the vessel as the Fusilier
The Scottish Built Ships database provides extra excellent images of the vessel in her 3 guises 
 
The axis of the ship's wheel appears different in your last two images ....such changes in design were certainly common. and often undocumented ...however realigning the ships wheel further to the Stdb side would certainly assist with the Helmsman's line of sight.....engine or boiler room ventilators are also of differing heights

Again, I cannot see any bulk coal on the promenade deck, but bagged coal carried onto the sponsons, and to the scuttles on the inner hull deck would not have been uncommon

With respect to your earlier comment about the 'The vent over the engine room seems to be sailcloth or something similar and translucent'.......is a bit of a red herring as any such structure or opening would need to be capable of shedding the full force of rain, squall, snow and storm. Any such opening would also be required to be acceptable or capable of closing to Lloyds Register insurance design requirements

Derek
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 04, 2024, 08:30:16 AM
According to my info, MacBraynes sold Fusilier in 1934, to Redcliffe Shipping Co Ltd of Hull, who used her on the Firth of Forth.
In 1935 she moved to Llandudno, and was renamed Lady Orme. In 1936 she moved to Ramsgate, and was back in Llandudno for 1937.
She was renamed Crestawave in 1938, and sold for scrap in October 1939.
Your middle pic is before 1926, as she still had the rear bridge, and would still have been Fusilier.
Any idea what those panels are over the engine room then? I agree they would not stand up to any wind, which is why I suggested they were only opened when in port.
Wheel seems central to me!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 04, 2024, 09:00:28 AM
My last post seems to have messed up page 2- all I get is a blank screen!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: rendrag on January 05, 2024, 10:54:38 PM
My last post seems to have messed up page 2- all I get is a blank screen!

It looks like something went wrong with generating a thumbnail for the attached image.  I've manually deleted the image, and now things are displaying again - you'll need to re-attach the image (fingers crossed it doesn't break again!)

--DG
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 06, 2024, 05:43:37 AM
Tried again, and looks like I've messed up the works again.
I hate computers-give me something you can fix with a hammer or a spanner!.
For some reason it seems that particular jpeg image in my photo files is corrupted somehow; every other picture I have posted has been fine.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 08, 2024, 02:58:50 AM
Page 2 is still a blank for me- I could try deleting the offending post, if only I could see it!.
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: derekwarner_decoy on January 08, 2024, 10:03:57 AM
 :whistle ..found I can view pages 3 and 2, via copying PD's & opening in a Google view window, however the current page 1 now is the culpriate that will not open

I had posted on two later renamed Fusilier ....these messages and attachments are on the page I cannot view....they were all OK & functional on completion of my postings

Derek
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 10, 2024, 12:47:47 AM
Looks like we can forget page two.
Anyway, a bit more progress- working my way clockwise round the decks. The mast and funnel are just loosely in place, to keep the inspiration going!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Hankwilliams on January 10, 2024, 08:54:32 PM
A really nice boat, neat buld!

Thomas
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 17, 2024, 08:45:44 AM
Got all the deck saloon walls done, and got a bit bored, so today I had a go at the figurehead.
Mr. Fusilier will eventually need fairing in to the bow with some waves, a fiddly bit of filler I suppose!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: Eddy Matthews on January 17, 2024, 10:58:25 AM
Magnificent carving at such a small scale! I wish I had that talent!!

Regards
Eddy
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on January 24, 2024, 10:29:14 PM
Promenade deck to follow!
Title: Re: Live steam "Fusilier", the 1888 MacBrayne paddle steamer.
Post by: birlinn on February 01, 2024, 09:25:35 PM
Back end more or less finished- the middle section has all the details.
Lifeboats, bridge, vents, plus seven flights of steps- two to each paddle box.
Not a quick build..