Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: Steven S on November 06, 2020, 05:11:07 AM
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This will be a build blog of a small quarter wheeler river drogher of my own design from information found on the internet. The prototype would have been used to transport local goods on rivers and small lakes. Full size she would be 75 ft. long with a 22 ft. beam.
My 1:25 scale model will be 900x280 (35.4” by 10.9”), it’s a little wide, but I’m a bit worried about stability. The hull has a displacement of 7.5kg (16.5 pounds).
I will build a non functioning steam boiler, but the twin wheels will turn independently and be directly driven by two Cytron 12V, 150RPM geared motors. It will use a Sabertooth electronic “robot” control module, controlled by my Spectrum Dx6 G2 transmitter. I want to use 1 stick for throttle and the other for turning.
I was planning on having angled floats on the wheels as an experiment in steering the boat. They would be angled to converge about 24 inches astern, but since they will be up against the sides of the boat and not protruding below or behind the hull I don’t think that they would be effective. I’ll start off by building a set of regular wheels. Any comments on the effectiveness of angled floats on a quarter wheeler or side wheeler would be welcome.
I am well along with the hull build and will start posting my progress shortly. It’s fall here in Canada so this will be my winter project, ready for spring sailing next April. Any comments on any of the build would be helpful as this is only my second boat.
https://www.robotshop.com/en/cytron-12v-150rpm-18oz-in-spur-gearmotor.html (https://www.robotshop.com/en/cytron-12v-150rpm-18oz-in-spur-gearmotor.html)
https://www.robotshop.com/en/sabertooth-dual-12a-regenerative-motor-driver.html (https://www.robotshop.com/en/sabertooth-dual-12a-regenerative-motor-driver.html)
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Go for it Steven I look forward to your build. :bravo :bravo :bravo
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Steven.......there are some builds here of similar sized pontoon style rear 1/4 wheelers, and also an article with a pair of wheels with angled float
The displacement of 6.5 kg is easiy increased via the flat bottom style...batteries/ballast up FWD
The only initial comment is these motors are listed as 150 RPM but with a no load rating as 103 RPM.......
With the electronic control, it could be worth considering a same frame size motor with ??185 RPM as with scaling....shaft speed is never a clear calculation with the SG of water being constant
The extra speed 'up your sleeve' may be beneficial :whistle
Derek
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Very interesting and promising. With pleasure I will watch your build. I`ve built 2 steam driven sternwheelers - if there will rise any question you will get any assistance with this blog.
Thomas
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Gentlemen, thanks for your encouragement. Derick, I used this motor in my first paddler build at the beginning of the Covid shutdown here in Canada. I used a toothed belt and 1:1 pulleys. I also bought a couple of alternate pulleys so that I could increase or decrease the wheel speed, but it seemed to operate nicely at just over half throttle. I've attached a picture of the drivetrain for that boat which is the one in my avatar and in my "Introduce yourself " initial post. The motors are not too expensive so if I need to change them for this boat they can be here in a week.
Thomas, I will be grateful for any help offered. I am powering my boat with twin electric motors independently driving the two wheels so my steam boiler will be non functional. I do want it to look proper though.
Damien, I have built many RC airplanes, but only one boat so I will be looking to learn from yours and others experiences during my build.
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My hull is progressing nicely. Before I fastened the false deck on I wrapped it in cling film, floated it in the bathtub and added some weights to balance it closer to the waterline. I have now permanently fastened in 3 pieces of 1/4x4x12 inch steel just forward of centre. Next I will add a fiberglass layer to the bottom and paint it.
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Looks very good. To the independent wheels: The steering effect through independent stern- or quarterwheels is - in opposition to sidewheels - not very strong. One will see. From my sight of view, it would be more secure, to plan one rudder just behind every wheel. Best solution would be, after my experience, a bow thruster.
Thomas
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Beautiful boat Thomas, it has given me a few ideas for some of the detailing on my boat, like the checkerplate under the boiler and the maybe the arched roofs although I think my type of boat (drogher) was built more "rough and ready", not quite so pleasing to the eye. I will have lots of questions when I start building my boiler such as how water was added on the real boat.
I am not a boat guy so I spent some time today researching Bow Thrusters. They are very interesting, I thought that they are external pods under the boat, but I see that they are an internal pump in a tube with the two inlets/outlets cut into the side of the hull with the tube fitted across. I could fit it up against the front bulkhead if I find that I need it, as long as I am careful on where I add any forward ballast for my final water tests. I will have a rudder, but I don't think it will be very effective.
I have added a layer of 52 gram fiberglass cloth to the hull and a couple of coats of red paint. Do you think that they would have painted a waterline on such a boat?
I was going to start thinking of deck planking next, but my motors and controller arrived so I've made the drivetrain mount and am starting on the paddlewheels. I am very interested if this "Robot" controller will operate as I expect. All the ponds around here have very hard water (ice) at this time of year so my water trials are a long way off I'm afraid, but I can still bench test the operation.
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Looks very good. To the independent wheels: The steering effect through independent stern- or quarterwheels is - in opposition to sidewheels - not very strong. One will see.
With angles/diagonal floats however, the steering effect of a quarter wheeler would be much stronger, as already explained here: http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7080.msg42837
Moritz
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Hello Moritz, Do you think angled floats would be on my quarter wheeler? The wheels are 6mm from the sides of the hull and do not extend below or behind it. I do not see where the diagonally directed water would go other than hit the side of the boat so I think they would be of minimum usage. I agree that they may be of greater use in a stern wheeler as shown in the diagram.
I will not be able to use my boat for five or more months as winter is here now so I could make an extra set of wheels for it with the blades angled to converge about 600mm behind the boat. It would be an easy change to test this theory in a practical way. Do you think 600 is a good point or should I aim for less?
I hope to have the rest of the electrics in today so that I can bind them to my transmitter and run the basic receiver setup. Then it's on to planking the false deck.
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Looks great Steven.
But more than the angled or straight paddles I would be concerned about your motor mounts. I can't tell if they are steel or alu, but in either case they look kind of flimsy. There will a considerable stress on these mounts because you don't have any shaft support on the outside.
I would recommend to add some kind of bracket at the end of the motor. Something like what I made for my Morangie Castle.
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An excellent idea Jurgen, I will add a brace like yours to my motor brackets.
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I was able to install and wire up my electronic "Robot" controller yesterday. It seems to work as expected, Reverse, Neutral, and Forward of both wheels on my throttle stick and both the wheels turn in the appropriate directions when I use the Aileron stick. I'm about 90% happy with the control and with some more adjusting of the transmitter later on should fine tune it completely.
I will finalize the motor mounting by adding a brace under each motor and make a cover for the robot ESC today. Then on to deck planking. I've never done any deck planking before so there will be some research involved. Any help would be welcomed.
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After some research on the internet I’ve decided on a 3 Butt planking pattern for my deck. I bought a ¼ inch plank 5” wide by 48” long and cut it into 175 planks with my Proxxon table saw. I cut them into the various lengths needed for 3 butts and beveled the four top edges. Now after laying out the pattern on the computer model I’m ready to start gluing.
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:bravo :clap :bravo :clap :beer
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Interesting Steven
Naturalliy it all depends on the selection of timber chosen, however the planking you cut with the Proxxon table saw appears to have a very smooth cut surface, so
1. what was the timber chosen?
2. do you use a HSS or a TCT blade in your Proxxon saw
3. which model Proxxon machine do you have?....the KS 230, ......the FET,...or the FK/SE which is older version of the FET
The reason I ask, is I use the FK/SE with the 80 diameter TCT blade [24teeth] however aways end up with the 80 diamerer swirl radial lines in the sawn timber surface
A colleague had the same machinery & issue...so spent a lot of $ on a Proxxon DH40 thicknesser ....... :'(
Derek
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Dereck - I cut the planks with my Proxxon FET tablesaw. My shop is very small, actually a converted walkthrough closet, 1.7x2.0 meters, so my powertools are on the small side. I have an 8” drill press, a 1” belt sander, my Proxxon tablesaw, and a Dremel Motosaw [250mm scrollsaw] plus lots of hand tools. I have an 80mm -24 tooth carbide tipped blade and an 85mm-80 tooth crosscut blade for the tablesaw.
I made the planks out of Poplar, a local hardwood that is actually kind of soft. It has a neutral colour, is straight grained and is knot free. It’s sold in the local lumber yards as “project” wood and comes sanded 4 sides.
I used the 80mm 24 tooth carbide tipped blade to crosscut the 4’ board into 8” pieces. To get a smooth surface I sanded and beveled the 8” edges, then ripped a 2mm thick plank from both edges of each piece, then sanded and beveled the 2 new edges of the pieces and then ripped 2 more planks. I repeated this process until the pieces were too narrow to rip any more. I ended up with a pile of planks that were sanded and beveled.
Now the next couple of days will be spent gluing them down, then scraping, staining, shellacking and maybe varnishing the deck.
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mmmmmmm thanps Steven.....same 24tooth TCT blade used ......that adjustable mitre box with the FET with the longer aluminium fence plate is a real bonus for cutting longer work & also repetitive lengths be they straight or angled ends
The Proxxon Righ Hand side adjustable length guide has a mile of in-by length to get the work straight, but very little out-by support to keep to sawn material straight. This is resolved with the FET machine & the longer adjustable mitrebox fence
I may try & modify :crash my FK/SE adjustable mitre box to incorporate a similar 300mmlight weight long box straight edge type section
:thinking Bunnings will have some sort item I can modify & attach
So when you do a new setup for parallel planking, do you just set the mitrebox angle to 90 degree marking, do a trial cut & accurately measure the cut section at either end & adjust accordingly?
Derek
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I have used poplar in keyboard instrument case building. It was used by the Flemish makers back in the early/mid 17th century. I found it easy to work and giving a superb surface for painting and decorating.
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Hi again Dereck – I’m not sure if I understand the question, but I cut my 8” long deck planks to the other lengths need for the 3 butt pattern I use a “Chopper III. To start off the pattern I needed lengths of 2, 4, 6, and 8 inches. Poplar is soft enough to chop 2mm thick planks. If I’m crosscutting heavier wood I use the mitre gauge with my Proxxon. It has an adjustable stop for setting a repeatable length.
To be clear on my plank cutting process I did the following:
• I bought a board ¼” thick, 4” wide by 48” long
• I slightly beveled the two 1/4x48 edges
• I set my ripping fence to 2mm and ripped 2 long strips from the plank
• I put the plank into my vice and sanded and beveled the 2 newly exposed long edges to remove any swirl marks
caused by the blade
• I put the plank back onto the saw and ripped 2 more long strips.
• I repeated the process until I used up the 4x48 plank
• I set the stop on my Chopper III to 8 inches and cut up the long strips and beveled the ends
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:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :beer
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Thanks for the encouragement Damien, my planking is coming along nicely. There will be a trim piece over the planking around the hold.
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Looking good, Steven.
That chopper is an interesting tool. I had seen it before, but I didn't think it could cut anything harder than balsa.
Jurgen
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Yes, I have used it on balsa and styrene with no troubles. Since I have it I decided to give it a try on the 2mm poplar and am happy to report that it works great. I am using a .020 " single edged blade in it. I also have some .012" blades that I will be trying later.
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I finished planking the main part of the deck and will probably leave the rear part until I do some work on the engine house, I’m not sure yet.
I started with the centre plank running the length of the deck and worked my way to the port edge and all went well. The starboard half seemed a little tougher to do as I had to lay the starter planks in the opposite order. It all worked out in the end and I am quite pleased with it, now I have some sanding to do.
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Very good and neat build, Steven. Do you have already tested the wheels effect in water?
Thomas
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I haven't had the boat with the drive system in the water yet, although as mentioned in post #12 I have tested the paddlewheels and they work as expected. It is winter here right now, lots of snow and the ponds are all frozen over. People are skating on them and playing hockey.
I have been working on the engine room and I am making the windows right now. Since I won't be able to float it in the water until late April I am at home enjoying the build process. Actually I am building it twice, once in the computer and then on the workbench.
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I know, it's fun to do the 'double' building.
How did you get the spacing of the front sheeting so evenly spaced? On the real one, I mean ;).
Jurgen
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Just basic math to determine the width of my siding Jurgen, but then I cut one strip into 15mm lengths and measured how wide ten of them were before cutting the rest [I needed ten strips to the bottom of the windows]. The nice thing about designing on the computer is knowing beforehand what should work.
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Of course, in the drawing the program does the math, but I meant the spacing on the real thing.
The spaces between each plank look perfectly the same. Did you use a spacer or are the planks beveled, like you did on the deck?
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Yes I beveled the top edge only to get the effect I was looking for. They fit tight to each other without a gap between them and are glued to the plywood wall.
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Single sided bevel. Nice. Will have to note that down.
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I have finished the engine room siding and have started on the removable roof for it. The building will be fastened down and the roof can be lifted off if needed.
I have also been working on the boiler room and was very surprised to see that I need over five metres of 2mm x 6mm framing material for all the studs and plates. This simple boat may take me all winter build after all. Lots of ripping and chopping to do.
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I have finished cutting out all my wall studs and plates and ended up with quite a lumber pile. I printed out the boiler room walls and have started gluing them up. I should have all four walls framed tomorrow and make a start on the siding.
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All the walls have been framed, sheeted with some 1/64 ply and the siding has now been installed. I dry fitted the walls to the deck just to make sure that I didn’t overlook something. After painting I will install the post braces and corner boards.
It looks like it’s time to get serious about staining the deck.
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:bravo :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :bravo :clap
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I have been staining deck test pieces but I’m still not satisfied with the colour so I’ve moved on to a different part of the project and am making the boiler. I’m still working on the sight glass, pressure gauge and plumbing and will get back to the deck staining tomorrow.
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:clap :bravo :clap :bravo :clap :bravo
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Thanks Damien
I have finally stained the deck and have applied a coat of shellac to it. After it dries I will apply a coat or two of varnish.
While waiting for the shellac to completely dry I have started on the ships wheel. I glued two coffee stir sticks together and am cutting out eight pieces for the octagon to shape the wheel from. I'm drilling each piece to fit a cocktail stick for the spokes. I'm building the wheel this way as we can't travel unnecessarily right now because of the Covid restrictions so I have a lot of spare time to fill and I am quite enjoying the detail.
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I have put a couple of coats of varnish on the deck and finished the ships wheel. I will finish off the engine house next. I’ve bought some 50 grit reddish sandpaper to represent roll roofing for both the engine house and boiler/pilot house. Roll roofing comes in 1 metre rolls here so I will be cutting my sheets into 40mm strips and gluing them on.
My captain/pilot isn’t really an arms dealer, I had to cut his arm off so I can reposition it to rest on the wheel better.
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Very fine and well-reasoned build, Steven. I don`t wont to occupy your blog, but in this coherence may be also interesting to have a look of the fine paddler build by a friend of me, Martin Schulte-Schrepping. The model is steam powered with boiler and engine of Wilesco steam roller - the cost of the whole boat were very low.
Thomas
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Thanks for visiting Thomas; it gets kind of lonely here. That’s a very nicely made paddleboat your friend built. I’ve added the picture to a folder I call “Next Project” on my computer. I’m trying to keep it down to a manageable size; it contains paddleboats, airplanes and gliders.
I’ve been steadily working on my boat and have most of the main assemblies nearly finished. I’m going to make a bench for in front of the captain for a couple of passengers to sit on as I’ve added passengers to my company sign that will be mounted onto the Port wall.
My next big job is the rudder, like the Murray River boats have. It will pivot at the extreme back of the boat and be chain operated.
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She's coming along a treat Steven. Lovely work by you.
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Yes, very fine - I `m very expectant to see her on water. The picture - presumable the prototype of Martins model.
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That's a nice wheel you built, Steven. Looks great.
And the ship too, of course.
Jurgen
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I've been able to finish and mount the rudder. Now I'm trying to work out the chain routing and how to attach it to the rudder and the servo.
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I’m still not satisfied with the rudder linkage so I have been working on finishing some other areas of the boat for now. My main holdup is that I have been assembling a sailboat I bought in February. Several of us in my club have decided to try racing RC65 sailboats this summer as we have a new pond this year that is deep enough and clean enough for sailing. It took more time than I thought, but I’m back to work on the drogher now
I have fastened down the boiler room and added some shelves for packages plus a bench and a water closet for passengers that might want to accompany their goods into town. I also made some latches for the engine room and the front hatch. It’s just a piece of brass rod bent into a “U” that fits into two holes in the structure. One leg is shorter than the other to make it easier to insert. I also added braces under each motor as Jurgen suggested and my woodpile is still a work in progress. My next job is to roof the boiler/wheel room and then make a deck crane. Deck cargo and cardboard boxes for the shelving are also on the agenda.
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Very good work, the impression of the boat seems really original.
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Thank you Thomas, yes I’m afraid it is entirely scratch built and bears little resemblance to any boat out there as there are no plans that I could find. I looked at many pictures and read a lot of history on droghers and then built the boat I would have liked to pilot on the rivers back around 1900.
It is early summer/late spring here in Canada and there are other things to do, so work on the boat has slowed, but I have finished the boiler room and am now working on the deck hoist. I’m planning on making it similar to Tomas Krejci’s Lulonga. I just have to make or buy the fittings for it. I’m trying to figure out how the boom is connected to the derrick post.
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Very interesting and well build model, Steven!
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I’ve finished my deck crane and some of the deck cargo, although I will redo my double blocks later. I had to make my own as I couldn’t buy any locally, and know that I should have done a better job. I just ripped a piece of maple into a quarter-inch square, cut it to length, sanded the edges, drilled some holes to represent the pulleys and glued some brass loops in and then stained it to a dirty grey colour.
I wanted the mast to be removable so I cut off the bottom couple of inches and glued it into the hull, and then epoxied a brass tube joiner onto the stub. Now the mast and the smokestack are removable for transport and storage. I cut the parts connecting the boom to the derrick out of 1/16 plywood and a small piece of maple glued and them into place to make a working pivot.
I just have to finish off the rudder linkage and build some more cargo to finish the boat. I also need to add a couple of passengers sitting on the bench and a deckhand/fireman to finish the project. The only ones I could find turned out to be extremely expensive because of shipping so I am still hunting for another source.
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Very interesting boat, Steven! The details made the model lively. I would like to see her on water!
Thomas