Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: mjt60a on January 28, 2005, 10:31:56 AM
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Latest state of construction of my 'Isle of Wight ferry'
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_27_01_05.jpg)
still sanding the hull at the moment (most of the back 2/3 is done) but just tried all the parts together again to see how it's looking. Also made most of the paddlebox vents, just needs 5 curved strips which follow the contours of the opening (and run across the white strips) and the name in raised letters (from slaters 'alphabets' model rail station nameboard making set)
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Your steamer looks really good, can't wait to see what its like when its finished
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I just finished (or so I thought) sanding the hull and began painting it, funny how a coat of primer shows up imperfections you didn't think existed...
...by the way, made some progress on the paddle vents;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_sponson01.jpg)
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They are really neatly done vents Mick - I'll bet there was a lot of swearing and cursing getting all those parts neatly aligned so all the gaps were even!
Extremely well done mate
Regards
Eddy
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Well,...they're not really quite as straight as they look in that picture, seen up close the spaces are really not very even at all but as the whole lot is to be painted black (with gold lettering and 'outline' stripes) I wasn't worried about getting them perfect...
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Painted the hull yesterday;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_stbdbow.jpg)
I could have sanded it completely smooth but took the unusual (possibly unwise!) decision to leave some imperfections for 'weathering'. It looked OK in primer but the black paint has a glossier finish and they show up more than I expected. Hopefully, when I find some place still selling lettering, I can coat it with matt varnish and it'll look OK again.... :roll:
Here's another view...
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_overall.jpg)
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That paint coat looks really good, and theres the one thing I'll be good at when my modfel is finished...painting! I love to paint models! But aside from me lol your steamer is looking really good!
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At first glance, I haven't made much progress since last time (had other things to do as well...) but that's because most of it has been fiddlydetails that don't at first seem important but need to be done before they're inaccessible for ever.
I've made top frames for the sponsons which will be covered by deck/roof but were necessary to hold their shape (I used a very thin styrene for the walls because it's easier to bend) portholes and the small side vents to the lavatories, also two bulkhead lights near the door (which is actually in the hull) then painted the white part - still have to make handrails that run around them and the 'coiled rope design' in the centre of the paddle vents - should have done so before painting!
In the forward saloon, I've made and fitted the window frames plus tables and chairs from toothpicks, matches and balsa (not looking forward to doing the same on the much longer aft saloon!) and still have to add deck supports and lower part of the deck vents where they pass through to the lowest deck (these will hide the threaded rod with which the superstucture is held in place using a nut epoxied inside the cowl vents)
Here's how it looks now (if you were a drowning 1/32 scale swimmer) - http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_waterline.jpg (a link, it's a little too big to attach to the message)
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Are you going to fit a sail?
The Freshwater became the Swanage Queen, didn't it.
I saw the Swanage Queen off Sandbanks when she was operating out of Bournemouth, with a sail hoisted forward. I think these were know as steadying sails
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A good point but for the moment I don't intend to fit a sail. Many of these steamers do seem to have a sail slung from the foremast (at least in pictures I have of them) but I just want to get the model working to start with.
Freshwater did become swannage queen (first Freshwater, then Freshwater II, then Sussex Queen, then Swannage Queen) but this is from books and photos I have, the ship was scrapped in 1962 when I was only 3 years old so I never saw it. I would like to know what was the 'port of registration' (COWES? SOUTHAMPTON? POOLE?) anybody know????
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Latest on the construction of my ship;
I'm finding more and more that I have to build the fittings I need as most of those I used to see on sale in model shops are no longer kept in stock (about half those shops are gone now too...) and even if they were, chances are they'd be the wrong size or style or something... so I made a whole lot of portholes and various vents and the navigation lights, some are fitted to the model and some ready to be used when I get to 'that stage'
I've now attached the sponsons to the hull but still have to add the deck area around them and the roofs (the forward parts are made but can't be attached yet) I've just fitted the portholes and to my surprise I can see through them to the interior so I'm going to have to do something with that too instead of just stuffing the wires for the lighting inside....
here's a couple of pics showing the port sponson and the cowl vents I built (in the case of the smallest pair, modified shop-bought ones)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_sideview.jpg)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_ventsvents.jpg)
More later when I have something to report :)
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Your steamer is looking good!
One thing I love about Aussie river steamers was that only one had portholes!!!! That will save time!
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This week I made and fitted the drive shafts and rudder tube, made them using a length of brass rod that fits the hole in the paddlewheel, brass tube that fits closely over the rod and another tube that fits over the first tube. The largest tube is cut to the required length then the smaller tube inserted to about half an inch inside each end as a bearing and to maintain a space between the shaft and outer tube (both parts cleaned and coated with flux first) then soldered in place with plumbers solder and sawn and filed off flat. I'd normally use a butane blowlamp outdoors for a heat source but as it was freezing and snowing I used the gas cooker, it worked perfectly well and leaves both hands free to hold the parts in pliers over the flames or hold one part and the solder. I then filed another short piece to fit against a hole cut in the outer tube, temporarily attached it with twisted wire and soldered that on as a lubricating point (a brass shaft in brass bearings - although it turns slowly compared to a propeller shaft, it's bound to be prone to wear so I intend to fill the shaft with grease). Some brass wire I'd bought (for hand railings) was supplied in a plastic pipe with a rubber cap which by a lucky coincidence is perfect as a cover for the lubricating point and can be filled with grease and squeezed to force it into the shaft tube.
Also fitted all the portholes but think I'll try to represent the bolts on the ones in the hull using bits of toothpick or something....
Also had a go at the design in the centre of the paddlebox....it'll be OK when it's painted gold (I hope..)
Just started on the sponson decks (for want of a better word) portside one is almost done and the starboard is about ready to attach but I still need to fit the mooring bollards and build the supporting structures underneath - probably use coathangers - plastic ones for the iron H beams and wire ones for those rods that form a triangle to the hull...pictures to come!
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...one of the driveshaft assemblies (needs some bracing - maybe a vertical plate at the inboard end which also holds the motor)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_shaft.jpg)
...and a view of the port sponson with the wooden structure around the base of the paddle drum (but still requires mooring bollards and the protective strip which runs all around the 'deck' edge)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_sponsondeck.jpg)
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Well, since I've run out of suitable materials to carry on with the sponsons (until I go to the modelshop, tomorrow probably..) I've been doing some more work on the forward saloon. Here's the interior;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_interior01.jpg)
Interior with lights and wiring fitted into the deck support structure;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_wiring.jpg)
...lights are white LEDs, resistors are fitted in the companionway to enable them to work on 12volt supply.
Here's a test of the interior lighting;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_interior02.jpg)
...couldn't get the camera to focus through the windows...
Here's a test of the interior and exterior lighting;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_interior03.jpg)
...those were just connected directly to a battery, I have to wire them properly through switches and fuses but I'm happy with the way it looks so far :D
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Fantastic Mick.... There can't be many modellers of working models that build fully detailed interiors!
Some of us will attempt a bridge that is detailed, but rarely go beyond that. I doubt I would have the patience to go that far, but I can still appreciate the work that you've put into your model.
Keep the pictures flowing Mick, even if I don't comment on each post I still really enjoy watching the model develop, as I'm sure lot of other members do too...
Regards
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That has to be my fav model steamer on this site! (sorry everyone else0
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Thanks :D but I have to admit it's inspired by the other models I've seen both here and elsewhere, for example the George M Verity (I think it was) has a nice detailed interior complete with tea lady!
Let's hope mine doesn't sink!!
(should be OK, I tried it in the bath with two 12 volt batteries, there's no leaks and plenty of scope for ballast)
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Not much to add (in the way of pictures anyhow) this week, I bought some pulleys for the drive (on Ebay, I needed four but saw a bag full for sale and now have a lifetimes' supply!) and fitted two to the motors and two to the drive half-shafts, I need to make mounting brackets for the motors/supports for the inboard ends of the shafts and get hold of some drive belts (large 'O' rings, or I could possibly use Mamod drive belts)
Also finished the paddlebox decoration, I've no idea what's supposed to be there as I have no clear pictures so I got a couple of decorative jacket buttons from the charity shop (found some with a sort of 'celtic knot' design) sanded them flat and glued them on the paddlebox - don't look too bad painted gold :)
I've also started on the protective band which runs around three quarters of the hull (styrene I-beam, needs a wood strip inserted in it) and the support struts underneath (bits of wire coathanger)
Earlier in the week I decided to add rivets around the hull portholes, really should have been done before painting (and certainly before fitting the portholes!) but I only just decided how to do it and though the rivets look a bit big, I think it looks better than when it was completely smooth.
Anyhow, more later :D
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Thanks for the update Mick.... I like the idea of using decorative buttons for the fancy work on the paddleboxes. I am planning on building the "Glen Sannox" after I've finished the Suter, and I was wondering how the heck I could do the paddlebox stuff.
I did notice that Model Dockyard do a good range of fancy decoration in cast metal - Mainly intended for static models of Galleons, but I'm sure they could be made to work on a paddler with suitable modification.
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Just finished fitting the paddles and feathering mechanism;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_paddle.jpg)
I've now added the styrene nuts to disguise the 'plastic rivets' provided with the paddlewheel kit, and painted them red oxide colour.
Here's a view of the paddlebox (the correct way up) with the decorative scrollwork added and painted gold;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_paddlebox.jpg)
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A very neat job Mick!
The graupner paddlewheels really look the part after your modifications - Just goes to show how good they can look with a bit of work! And the paddlebox with it's scrollwork looks great too.
Any idea how long it will be before you get it on the water, or have you already tested it?
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Now I look again at those last two pictures they don't look as good as the real thing (or as they did on my computer) the portholes and the gold striping looks quite distorted, I think that's because I reduced them to about a quarter the size they were straight from the camera...
...as to how long until I can sail, I need to fit the motors, servos, speed control and rudder then sort out ballasting arrangements, then I could try it out. However, I'll probably test it in a makeshift pool in the garden (big sheet of plastic clamped to frame of 4x2) to sort out any 'bugs' like centering the weight distribution (position of the main drive battery to port or starboard should take care of that) and complete the construction before taking it out in public!
As far as construction goes, I have to make the aft saloon and promenade deck, lifeboats and davits, railings, some assorted items on deck (skylight, storage bins, buoyant seats) and various fittings (mooring bollards, capstan, windlass) plus the masts...
...but it's coming along nicely :D
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I love your steamer, and even if the photos on the site aren't as good as the real thing the real thing must be really really good!
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This weeks update;
Made and fitted the rudder, started constructing aft saloon...
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_aftsaloon01.jpg)
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Nice to see it's coming along Mick.... I've got a long way to go to catch you up!
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I had a head start, I started mine last november - and yours seems to be coming along nicely :)
This week I finished the strip around the sponsons and made some progress on the aft saloon but now have run out of humbrol matt white, I bought some the other day but accidentally picked up revell paint by mistake and it just doesn't look the same (has a less matt finish and looks 'more white' when dry, if that makes any sense) I had a problem with the port navigation light until I realised red LED's require only 2.5 volts (the green and the white are about 3.4) and the correct value resistor has solved it.
See a bigger than usual pic (too big for the messageboard) here - http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/freshwater04.html
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hi Mick - [mjt60A] - a few questions
1) I noticed on you WEB site a snap of the sponson supports [guessing say 2 mm diameter x 55 mm long] - same snap as March 13 @ 7.11 PM as below - what material are the made from brass? bamboo? or plastic? - they look very strong - how are the secured to the hull & lower side of sponson?
2) in your Freshwater snap March 19 @ 6.57 PM I can see at the stern what appears to be one margin plank together with a second notched margin plank - is this standard? - I have down loaded a number of sketches from a Google search on 'margin plank' , but they all appear to be single margin plank construction however with my PS Decoy, two planks may be required - Derek
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OK, Question 1;
The rods supporting the sponsons are pieces of wire coathanger (probably mild steel?) the 'ends' are cut to about 4mm over length and bent over to fit into holes drilled in the hull and into some wooden strips 5mm square in cross section, which run from the hull (at main deck level) to the outer edge of the sponson. The ends of the rods are, how can I explain, 'pinched with the wire-cutting area of a pair of pliers' to create grooves and inserted into the holes filled with araldite. The holes in the hull are above the waterline but are sealed with plenty of araldite on the inside just to make sure of watertightness and grip (because some of them didn't line up with solid frames - I didn't plan that far ahead when building the hull!).
Question 2;
The area of ply visible is a guide for positioning of the aft saloon and deck which will be attached to it. The 'outer' margin will be painted white (it represents the 'drainage channel' that I've seen on Waverley, Queen Mary 2 and other steam ships) The 'inner' margin is where the actual margin plank will be glued and is notched to fit the ends of the deck planks. The deck planks and margin plank will be somewhat higher than the white area around them.
I have no idea if that is how Freshwater was done but I had to make a decision here and it looks OK to me! (and hopefully no-one else knows if it's correct or not either!)
This pic of the bow and front of promenade deck area shows more-or-less how it will look (but a different shape, of course...)
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/fw_deckplanks.jpg)
I hope that's some help, anything else, feel free to ask, in the meantime I look forward to seeing pics of your model of Decoy :D
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Hello Mick (and all of you), on Q1 a good way of eliminating the pinched end would have been to cut off the rods required while holding the main piece in a vice and using a Dremel or other mini tools' cutting disc. This would have given a clean cut with 90deg ends. The down side is a non serrated edge is easier to extract unwittingly from the receiving hole no matter how much araldite is in there. On Q2 as you say if you are happy witht he result then stay happy and deride all knockers :D
cheers
Jim
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Sorry for lack of the last update but my computer has been out of action for about 5 days (still haven't got it quite as it was...all my stuff gone...etc)
I've just today got a mast for my steamer, it's an inexpensive fishing rod at the moment, I wanted something thinner than could easily be made (by me, at least) from wood but not easily broken, got it in a shop on southend seafront, most helpful, chap in the shop has also made model ships/boats/sub!
Also found a shop with rub-on transfers of WHITE lettering (for the hull), near victoria circus (southend) behind the odeon. Good shop, has balsa, ply, metal, plastic etc. also model boat kits and fittings from Graupner, Billings and Amati. Will remember that shop :D
more pics soon...
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No pics yet as I (still) haven't sorted out my FTP program/settings which were lost as a result of last weeks 'catastrophic failure' (ie. virus)
I have now completed most of the interior of the aft saloon but have still to fit windows and frames plus furniture/people. have started on the final section of protective band that runs from the sponsons around the stern but stopped as run out of araldite. built and fitted stairway from main deck to promenade (to get position of opening in prom deck) and have begun the seemingly endless, yet to me satisfying, process of planking the prom deck, which must then be weathered, sealed, caulked, sanded smooth, weathered again then sealed again. (that's due to the way I do weathering, there's probably a quicker/easier way :D
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Mick, you big tease - can you expand a little on your deck weathering techniques?
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Look at the separate thread in this topic 'deck weathering' :D
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...on the build progress, I fitted meccano pulleys to the shaft ends and the gearbox outputs expecting to be able to use mamod drive belts but these are (it seems) not easily available. I tried wilesco ones which look the same but they slip (wilesco pulleys have a grooved texture) so I bought today a couple of 'vauxhall cavalier waterpump seals' to try (look about the same but are rubber) so we'll see if they'll do the job. If not I'll have to think about chain, toothed belt or geared drives... :?
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Do you mean the Mamod drive belts that are like coiled springs that screw together Mick??
If you do, my local model shop carries them in stock and I could get you some if needed....
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Yes, those are the ones, I was sure they must be out there somewhere as they still make vehicles that use them but I thought the wilesco ones were the same... (actually I think they are the same you can screw two or more together to make a longer length etc).. maybe they'd work better if they were 'de-greased' before use...
...anyhow, I'll try the rubber ones first, if they last long enough they should be better than the springs :)
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I used two of the "drive belts" screwed together on my model of the Creole Queen when the original rubber drivebelt perished - They worked a treat....
Anyway, the offer stands, if you need me to get you a couple just let me know.
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I've now had time to test the rubber 'vauxhall water pump 'o' rings' and they're ideal, grip just fine, even with virtually no tension.
only drawback is that the pulleys* are quite narrow so have to be PERFECTLY alligned or the belt grips the side and rides out of the pulley
Think I can overcome that by attaching a disc to each side (of ply or styrene sheet) of slightly bigger diameter - plus making sure they ARE alligned as best as possible!.
*in fact the gearbox pulleys are fine but the ones on the paddleshaft are actually road wheels without the tyres so the groove isn't quite as deep as I'd like....*
But I'm sure it'll be OK when all is done :D
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Side view, still not quite complete but most of the way there now. Picture is in the photo album here - http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=522
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It's looking really good Mick - Must be getting close to it's maiden voyage now??
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I'd say about a week to 'garden pond' trial (to ballast it correctly) and 'however long it takes me to build a carrying case' later to maiden voyage :D
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Oh maiden voyage....thats special...even if its in the garden pond! Do we get a comissioning service...or doesn't that happen in the modelling world
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I'll take some pics of the garden pond trial but I'm really looking forward to taking the ship out on the lake, there'll be many photos and one or two videos...
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Brilliant!
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There's been a serious lack of progress on the ship lately, this is due to me running out of money (hence making the newspaper boat using materials I already have lying around...)
I'm now working at the local dump (this may or may not be temporary) and should soon be able to buy necessary items to continue, but of course I don't have as much free time to actually work on it :x
Progress since last update is...
completed planking promenade deck and mostly completed the engineroom skylight (don't know if there's supposed to be one, there appears to be some structure there but could be a container for life jackets - or even folding deck chairs!) Made it as a skylight for now, could change it later if need be. It opens on hinges and will be where the power and reciever switches are.
Made the top rear section of sponson deck both sides (at prom-deck level) where the lifeboats go, these 'foul' the bulkhead lights when the aft saloon is removed (for access to battery/electrical items) so also had to make the bulkhead lights spring loaded so they can be pushed inside and will return to original positions.
Fitted windows in aft saloon and begun the tricky job of attaching the wooden frames, that's about half done, I may do some more tonight.
Acquired 'material' for one of the masts this is a (fairly) inexpensive beginners fishing rod, it's the only thing I could think of to make the mast as thin as it looks in photos yet not fragile. I need to make it detatchable but with connections for the navigation light (I'm thinking two short lengths of styrene tube which fit one inside the other, the largest glued into the deck the other to the end of the mast - and a headphone plug and socket fitted in each.....remains to be seen if I can make that work...)
Then I'll need to make another one... :roll:
I'll take pictures as soon as it looks any different to last time...
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...Oh, yes I almost forgot - floatation tests!
I haven't been able to do that yet with the full hull. I don't know if I ever mentioned this or you can see from any of the pictures but the hull is in two sections, the forward 'about one-third' of the total which just has some lights inside and the remaining two-thirds which contain all the electrical stuff and can basically sail by itself, pushing the bow section around in front of it. The back of the forward section has four holes in so it can be bolted to the rear with wing nuts which screw onto coach bolts epoxied into the rear, but water can enter through these holes. It won't sink as there's a watertight bulkhead in front of it and it is intended to flood but I will need to fibreglass the inside of that area the same as the outer hull to protect the wood before it can be flooded.
However, it does float OK with the holes blocked with 'blu-tack' and the aft (main) section also seem to be OK (I tried them in the bath)
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Sounds like things are coming along nicely Mick - Looking forward to the photos.
...However, it does float OK with the holes blocked with 'blu-tack' and the aft (main) section also seem to be OK (I tried them in the bath)
Bath??? You meant Test Tank surely? :-)
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Oh, I forgot to ask, why is the hull in two sections? Seems like a strange way of doing things, but I'm sure there's a reason for it...
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I made it in two sections so it could fit into a case for transportation. As I don't have a car I intended to transport it by bus/train to either southend (no reply from southend model power boat club though :( ) or bluewater (waiting list for members but they allow visitors to pay £1 on the day if there's a channel free) - However......the model is now much heavier than I expected even without ballast (requires the equivalent weight of six pints of water) so transportation could still be a problem... :?
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Hi Mick - you mentioned a void space between the two sections that you plan to fiberglass - have you considered intentionally using this space a ballast tank?
With the six pint ballast requirement this is a pretty big number 6x750= 4500 ml or 4 1/2 kg or 4 1/2 litres of water space
I am going to be in a similar but lessor situation with PS Decoy requiring approx 3 kg of ballast - I have considerd making a mould of a number of the lower hull profiles between the frames, then casting lead countours & epoxy cementing them in - advantage is lower mass & stability, dis-advantage is lifting & lowering a vessel that is 3kg heavier than before
I suppose the only real advantage with lead ballast is that it can be fixed or removable & it is 11.3 times smaller in volume that water - please let us know how you proceed - because :nono this ballast is heavy - Derek
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Derek, if you are casting your ballast to the shape of the hull would you also need to epoxy the castings into Decoy? Wouldn't the hull/frame surrounds, gravity, inertia and friction all help keep then in place?
Or is there some threat of movement - like are you planning to emulate Waverley crossing St Ives Bay in that storm?
If you have reasonable access to the 'bilges' in Decoy then here's an option for your castings.
Try putting a layer or two of cling film into the hull so that it nestles into the contour of the hull between the frames, then pour lead shot into the cavity. Follow that with enough epoxy to fill the cavity to the top of the lead shot. Complete this by embedding an eye-bolt and ring or similar part-way into the resin/shot mix and leave all to set.
Once set you should be able to lift the cast ballast out of the hull using the nifty little handle you've made. Strip off the cling film and Robert's your father's brother.
If the hull is contoured then you might need to 'careen' your model to work on it - lay it over, cast one side at a time and work the ballast into an acceptable shape before it goes off, then do the other side. 5 minute epoxy shld do fine and keeps the time lags to a minimum.
I use 10 or 12 gauge shot that comes in ten kilo plastic containers from the local huntin', shooting' and fishin' shop here, but most any gauge of shot should work fine. Just avoid the steel shot that is gradually replacing lead - it's specific gravity is much less so is not as effective as ballast.
Pluses:
- cold-cast in-situ avoids the dangers of heating and handling molten lead
- no need to build a mould of the hull beforehand
- major timesaving
- good ballasting down low = stable
- removeable for easy transportation
Minuses:
- the specific gravity of a lead/epoxy mix is lower than pure lead so requires a larger space for the same weight of ballast
- not as easily recycled as pure lead
- epoxy solvents have safety issues of their own
Hope this is a thought provoker for you
cheers
Tony
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I have in fact considered not only using that space but building in some more in the mostly empty bow section and behind the boiler/engine (battery/motor) room, with holes in the bottom, a ceiling a little below the waterline and perhaps connected to cowl vents or such like above deck to form watertight (airtight, even - apart from the vents) self filling ballast tanks. The only thing that puts me off a little is that the centre of gravity won't be as good (presumably) with water-filled areas as with a 'lump of metal' right in the centre of the lowest part of the hull.
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Mick,
I'd be inclined to get some ballast fore and aft as well as right in the centre of the model.
I reckon that a bit of ballast towards the bow and stern helps stiffen the movement a little and helps reduce any tendency for a model to pitch in "heavier seas". Likewise spreading the weight a little across the bilges from side to side helps reduce a tendency to roll.
Concentrate the weight in one spot dead centre and you run the risk of building in a pendulum-like effect.
Tony
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Mick,
I'd be inclined to get some ballast fore and aft as well as right in the centre of the model....
Sorry, what I meant was 'along the centreline of the hull' like a long metal bar (cut into suitable lengths as the frames that shape the ply around the bow are solid walls up to main deck level forming compartments...)
I didn't know about balasting across the width of the hull though, I'd have thought keeping the weight near the centreline was best...
...if that's the case, the 'lead shot in resin' idea would probably be the best way...
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Yesterday Tony wrote
Derek, if you are casting your ballast to the shape of the hull would you also need to epoxy the castings into Decoy? Wouldn't the hull/frame surrounds, gravity, inertia and friction all help keep then in place?>>>>>
If you have reasonable access to the 'bilges' in Decoy then here's an option for your castings.
Try putting a layer or two of cling film into the hull so that it nestles into the contour of the hull between the frames, then pour lead shot into the cavity. Follow that with enough epoxy to fill the cavity to the top of the lead shot. Complete this by embedding an eye-bolt and ring or similar part-way into the resin/shot mix and leave all to set.
Once set you should be able to lift the cast ballast out of the hull using the nifty little handle you've made. Strip off the cling film and Robert's your father's brother
Thanks Tony - [no you got that one wrong, Robert was my grandfather, but how did you know?] - I like the idea of removable ballast that is cast on site so will be stable & not move etc as you noted above [& no splattered lead & burnt skin]
Naturally the smaller the shot size the smaller the glue gap & if I know I need 3020 grams just measure it & glue it [in cling wrap]
However if we want to recheck the calcs just go to Google & search on the word density then choose the site
www.nyu.edu/pages/mathmol/textbook/density.html - :thinking fasinating reading - Derek
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This is the most recent picture (it's a bit wide if you look at it full size.... :? );
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_sideview2a.jpg)
since taking it, I've glazed the windows and added the frames, the same as the front ones, and the black protective strip around the hull.
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It's definately looking good Mick - Maybe we should try to have a get together for all the UK modellers on the forum that have a paddler? It would make a great day I'm sure....
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Good onyer Derek,
good to avoid molten lead if possible - as you say, skin doesn't respond well to lead at 330+ degrees C. And despite all the care in the world handling the lead pot, any moisture at all in the mould will result in a terrific steam explosion. If you use a cold ladle in the lead pot then this can cause a similar outcome so heat that ladle up first!
Don't forget that the epoxy you add will have a weight component all of its own and that your 3020 g of ballast is a combination of lead and epoxy resin. A complicating factor admittedly if absolute accuracy is sought...
Fair point re the centreline Mick, although I'm still cautious about a pendulum effect being set up. Perhaps other more experienced modellers than me can add their two cents worth?
Freshwater's really looking a treat. Well done.
Cheers
Tony
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Maybe we should try to have a get together for all the UK modellers on the forum that have a paddler? It would make a great day I'm sure....
That'd be great, I haven't done that since the PSPS rallies at blackheath (I don't think they have them anymore, last time I saw the pond - last year - it looked un-navigable to models...) only problem for me would be lack of transport for larger models at the moment as I can't afford a car until I get a job again....
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....I will need to fibreglass the inside of that area the same as the outer hull to protect the wood before it can be flooded....
I've done that now so, if it isn't raining (and I can find a way to inflate the outdoor test tank) floatation/ballast (and maybe drive system) test tomorrow!!!
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I can't wait to hear how the tests go Mick - I'm really looking forward to that stage with the Suter, hopefully it won't be too much longer now.
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The test went superbly! Needs quite a lot of ballast (VERY difficult to lift, had to remove it all before lifting out of the water..) but seems very stable once at the correct waterline. The promenade deck/aft saloon roof and cowl vents are not yet attached (stuck on with blu-tack), window frames (still !) not yet completed and the masts, railings and various deck furnishings (seats, lifeboats & davits etc) still to be made and fitted but I've added some pictures to the gallery :)
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=585
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It's looking really good Mick - How big is the model, it looks a fair size in those photos.
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It's 55 inches long, 9 inch beam and 15 inches across the sponsons (1/32 scale BUT - as I have no data on the real Freshwater/Swannage Queen I used photos to work it out 'proportionally' using the height of people on board as a starting point and taking everything from there...ie. funnel appears about 4.5 to 5 'men' tall, promenade deck as long as about six funnel heights etc. Not at all accurate but I don't intend to enter any exact scale competitions, just make something recognisable - and pleasing to me :)
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Quick update; because of the weight of ballast required I'm constructing GRP water tanks between some of the frames in the hull. Once they're set I'll try filling them with water (to just below the waterline) and see if that'll work instead of using metal. If so I should be able to add a 'lid' and vent pipe (either to a cowl vent on deck or out through the side just above water) so they can't overfill, and to prevent the water moving around inside (they should fill to the top and part way up the vent) they can then fill up automatically if I have a couple of holes in the bottom of each compartment, lined with brass tube. This probably won't be as 'stable' as with metal (as discussed before) but I really need to reduce the weight... :?
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/ballasttank.gif)
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I successfully formed two ballast tanks in the bow section but after testing I found they don't produce enough weight to fill them fully. I could try making two more...or use some lead, haven't quite decided which yet. I'll also need to make two more tanks just behind the 'engine room', one either side with the second battery between (there's a 12volt battery at each end of the motor compartment, the idea being to power the motors from one and lighting from the other - with the option of switching the motors to the second battery if the first runs down)
Before I can fit the decks (permanently) in place, I'll need to figure out how to attach the masts, which are to be removeable, so I've just started making those now. The foremast will have a mastlight and the mainmast a mastlight and the reciever aerial inside (I'm using a length of carphone antenna which has a copper core in a glassfibre or carbon fibre tapered rod) so electrical connections are needed at the base of each mast. I'm trying a headphone plug and socket, plug on the end of the mast and the socket set into the deck, but it's not exactly that simple....more on that if it works...
I've almost finished the (pesky) aft saloon window frames and must go now back to that as it's holding up the entire build!
Must finish the ship ASAP to take advantage of this 'free time' (aka unemployment) I find myself with - especially since I seem to have been promoted to captain :D
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Good to hear your making progress on the Freshwater Mick.
Of course it's the old problem with ballast tanks, you have to fill them with a considerable volume of water to get the same effect as a relatively small amount of lead. But with the plus side of a much lighter boat for transportation.
Keep us posted, I've been following this build with considerable interest.
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HHi Mick, Heres a thought on filling and emptying your ballast tanks. Go to your local car scrap yard and get some old wingscreen washer pumps, Fit the tubing to your tanks and use them to fill your water ballast. reverse the polarity and hey presto you pump them out again! Filling them by hand will soon waterlog your hull with shaky-hand spillage. This method works well and has no mess. Also , why built in tanks? have a look at the bladder type polythene water bags that walkers fit intheir rucksacks, they inflate and deflate when filled with water and can be pushed into awkward spaces. The danger with fixed tanks is that if they are not completely full, the water inside agravates any rolling on the model as it sloshes from side to side. (An old friend lost a 50 inch coaster that way, it turned turtle after the roll got more and more pronounced to th point that it rolled keel up!) Dont want to alarm you!) Wishing you every success. Walter.
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I had thought of using some type of water pump (like on model u-boats) but then, if it fails, it'd be sealed inside the hull :x
The idea is to have permanently open holes in the bottom of the hull, an air pipe to somewhere above the waterline (to a vent on deck or an outlet in the side - if the ship has one in a convenient place) and a sealed lid on top of the tank below the waterline then when placed in the water, they should fill completely (and partway up the air outlet) in a few minutes. Drawbacks of this method are that they'll take a few minutes to empty too so the model will be very heavy when first removed from the water! Also, the water will drain out onto the ground when the model is placed on it's stand (unless suspended over the lake until empty - argh, my back! :? ) so some type of tray and drainpipe attached to the stand may be in order. The stand can be placed on the bank and the ship quickly lifted on.
This is of course, all theoretical but since the first two tanks do in fact work, and it'd be just as heavy with lead ballast.....and I should be able to overcome the drainage/stand issue.....I think I'll go ahead and make the rest of the tanks. It's just a matter of fibreglassing the inside of the hull (in compartments without any electrics), adding a shelf below the waterline and testing in water again to ensure the correct level is reached 'on the outside' with water in the tanks at a lower level. If it works, I can drill the holes in the bottom and line them with brass tube (sealed to the outer and inner 'skins' of f/g tissue and resin with more resin or araldite) make the lids from styrene sheet, fit the air outlets and seal them in place.
If it doesn't work (ie. they're not heavy enough when filled below the waterline) I can forget the whole thing and just put lead ballast in them.
Incidentally...when testing the two without the lids I noticed something unexpected...If the hull is 'rocked', the water in the tanks swills from side to side at a different rate to the hull - and it settles again faster than it did with the temporary 'full milk containers' (so the water can't move) during earlier tests... I'm sure that with enough tanks half-to-three-quarters full, it would cause a capsize but maybe just a small tank, partly filled, could be used as a stabiliser.............just a thought, I'm not going to do it on this model but an interesting discovery!
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Mick:
I met some guys in England three years ago and we discussed the whole issue of ballasting large models. They laughed when I told them of model tugs over here with 50 lbs of removable lead ballast. Seems they have a valve which is opened to allow water into the ballast tanks and they simply void them with pumps. These are 12V systems of large model tugs.
PJ
Victoria, BC Canada
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HI PD's - Mick in real life they use the continual cross transfer of water ballast [port to stdb & reverse etc] to stabilise certain types of vessels - typically RoRo or box boat vessels which have very high windage profiles
I have seen video footage of the BHP Iron Monarch ploughing through rolling seas en-route to Whyalla with the vessel [gas turbineing] along with no percieved roll
This continual ballast trimming is all computer controlled & this is great as long as the computer dosn't crash - have not seen but heard that on one occasion the ballast computer system was dead & the Monarch rolled around like a cork
Moral of the story is that you have already picked up this semi cancellation effect of timing in the movement of the smaller volumes of ballast water compared to the source etc
So I suppose you could consider free entry ballasting combined with a pump to press up the tanks - I mean the point is to get the vessel lower in the water, not to correct huge swelll or roll influences that the model would be subjected to -
I am sure those little 12V MFA style gear pumps deliver approx one litre per minute so one would have great potential - just got to figure out how to close the free ballasting vents so you could also de-ballast - regards Derek
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Have finally finished the window frames on the aft saloon, there's only twelve in all but it's the sticking tiny bits of wood together with miniature tweezers from a swiss army knife - again and again for each one..... If I have to do this again on another model I'll find an easier way.....
almost finished the foremast too, and the idea of having removeable masts using a miniature jack plug on the base to plug into a socket in a hole in the deck works very well - but my site is down so no pictures just yet.
Also I've altered and repainted a couple more 'crew figures', but many passengers to be painted so for now I'll just make the ones that are going inside the aft saloon as that won't be accessible once the deck is in place.
The next 'nightmare' is going to be the chairs, lat's see..... 7 tables, 6 chairs around four of them, 4 chairs around the other three.... 36 chairs..... and the snack bar...... :?
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The next 'nightmare' is going to be the chairs, lat's see..... 7 tables, 6 chairs around four of them, 4 chairs around the other three.... 36 chairs..... and the snack bar...... :?
Mick..the answer to your nightmare is called RESIN CASTING!
Best regards
PJ
Victoria, BC, Canada
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Now there's an idea.....I'll have to see if I can get some of the casting resin mentioned in 'Paddlewheel Construction'.......... That would've made the window frames much easier too (as I'd only have to make one!)
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Electrical test on the sponsons:
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/freshw_lights2_port.jpg)
...this is actually the 3rd test! First time I tried with two dry batteries (3 volts) and after about 10 minutes the port light failed and was too hot to touch! - I forgot, white LEDs are 3.4 volt but red ones are only 2.5v :x
Second time, tried with 12v lead-acid - and correct resistors in series with each LED, worked OK for half an hour but when I disassembled everything to install it (poke the wires through tiny holes into the hull, and solder them) I found the resistor for the red LED was unexpectedly warm (much more than the others). I didn't think it'd be a problem and installed everything anyway. After this last test all appears normal (probably got warm before because it wasn't soldered and had a 'bad connection' to the resistor (but good enough to still light the port light) Have now araldited the deck down (sealed forever!) and waiting for it to set before moving on (back again, I should say) to the interior :)
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It's looking really good Mick - Nice to see lighting that looks realistic too, how many times have you seen a model that has illumination that looks like 30 million candle power!
I always remember one of towboat Joe's towboats that he sent me photos of - If he hadn't said it was a model you would have sworn that it was the real thing! Good lighting can really make or break an otherwise superb model.
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I'm glad you like it :D
In fact the navigation lights look superb in real life, they're probably a little on the bright side (on real ships they hardly seem to show up at all except at night) but in daylight, especially sunlight, look about right - and you can see they're working. The bulkhead light isn't really as bright as it looks there, the camera has over-compensated to get an 'overall' acceptable light level, in reality you can clearly see the guard wires and mounting plate. For the interior, I wanted it to look like the light was for the benefit of passengers and not aiming straight at the porthole! so the light source is out of sight in the front corner of the cabin. Close up, you can see the woodgrain door and green tiled/white painted wall (printed on my computer) through the portholes but in daylight you probably won't notice they're illuminated at all but that's preferable to it looking like it has floodlights along the sides...
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Made the masts over the last couple of days...
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/fw_masts.jpg)
the 'rear' one is not quite complete, I have a little work to do on the base and the 'bit sticking out backwards where the flags hang'. The headphone type jackplugs allow them to be removed/refitted without messing with the light connections.
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/fw_all_lit_up.jpg)
....just couldn't resist :D :D :D
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ooooo that looks really good! Love the lighting!
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It's been a while since I had anything worth posting here, since getting a (probably only temporary) job at Toys-R-Us I just don't seem to have the time to work on the model that I had when in full unemployment!
However, I do try to make 'something' for the ship most evenings (if I'm not too tired from unloading trucks from 7am 'til 4pm - almost continuously at this time of year!)
Here's how the lifeboats are made;
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/FW_lifeboats.jpg)
they're basically carved from a balsa shape made by the 'bread and butter' method (but in two halves loosely tacked together) then split and a piece of suitably shaped 1.6mm ply stuck in the centre. As the interior detail doesn't exist, the canvas covers will be in place. Those are made from a piece of old tee shirt I've dyed green and secured using fabric glue - if that doesn't last I'll have to re-attach with something stronger!
I'll probably coat the fabric with dope or tent coating or something for waterproofing (after trying out on a scrap of fabric to see what happens!)
I'm also making the 'buoyant seats' for the deck..... :)
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Not much in the way of progress (and nothing at all worth a photo) but I've now completed the masts (which were practically done anyway) and mostly finished the buoyant seats (need to buy some more varnish or other suitable waterproofing) just finished planking the small D-shaped piece of deck just above the rudder and am now constructing the lifeboat davits. I hadn't forseen what a tricky job this could be until I started on them :x
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I've now fitted the lifeboats and davits, just need to paint them then attach the 'ropes & pulley blocks'. I made the four landing platforms (at least that's what it looks like on the photos) on either side of the paddle drums, earlier this week and just need to weatherproof them.
I also fitted the motors this afternoon and I can't believe how noisy the gearboxes are! When I tried them held loosely in the hand they sounded almost silent but fixed firmly to the bottom of the hull they whine like some kind of turbine engine (increasing speed from dead slow to full sounds like a helicopter about to take off!) so some kind of insulation may be in order - I've read some suggestions on model boats forum about embedding the motors in a base of silicon sealant (put cling film around them so they don't stick - and don't block the holes in the motors) and strapping them down with thick rubber bands....
Or I could try using different motors and worm/gear, we'll see..... :roll:
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Externally, here's what I have so far....
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/FW_2_2_06.jpg)
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It's looking great Mick - Keep up the good work!