Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: 15Bert on July 31, 2012, 05:17:38 PM
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I don't know if I'm putting this in the correct place, so I apologise if it has to be moved.
I really wanted a 'proper' stern wheeler, the 'Lady Lois' looks good to me, but I think that for my first paddler I will build from the 'Lulonga' plan that I already have. It is full of character and I hope it won't be too difficult for me.
I have found the plan and had a couple of copies made to work from. I have decided to make it mostly from wood. I can see the advantages of the plastic moulded route but I'm not familiar with that material and I will be happier working in wood as much as is possible.
I'm getting the materials together now, I was going to do the build over the coming Autumn/Winter but I feel the itch now...
I have some ply for the bottom and sides in stock, I am thinking of using some 1/2 inch balsa sheet for the front part of the hull, I have some and it will be easy to carve to shape.
The paddles will be scratch built from the drawings to save some money.
When there is some progress I shall post some pictures as I go along.
I should say that I am primarily a flying aircraft modeller (sorry), I have dabbled with other things over the years, but this is my first paddler and my first 'serious' boat so be gentle with me please.
Bert
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Hi Bert,
Looking forward to seeing your build log, with interest. I have one that I restored so if you need any pictures to help with build don't be afraid to ask.
Graham
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Bert. A modeler is a modeler, aircraft, cars or boats. Its only the rail enthusiasts that add engineer to model. One big advantage boats have over aircraft they don't crash, only sink. I have posted some of my efforts, built between 1968-1973, when radio was not that reliable. Just 3 of the many. Still have a 6ft span tiger moth unflown. R.G.Y.
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I can vouch for boats sinking :sobbing though thankfully not too often. ::) I think many on here have many and varied modelling interests and i also have a plane in the shed though i will never fly it.
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It's good to know that there are varied interests on this forum, I think that modelling is more or less a problem solving exercise no matter what it is that you make.
I have some time off work this week so I am expecting to make some progress on the Lulonga. I need some 3mm ply - I thought I had plenty in stock but what I have is mostly liteply which would probably do, but it isn't easy to keep it straight in my experience so I shall be making a trip to the model shop for a couple of sheets of the real thing.
Once I get the ply I shall be on my way. On a plus note I managed to get a copy of the magazine complete with plan off the 'bay this week. I already had a tatty plan, also from the 'bay but this one is in new condition. It's also good to have the colour photos to look at for inspiration.
Bert
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I have made some progress on the Lulonga, there's a bit of work in the hull to accomodate the paddles, which so far has been quite enjoyable.
The bottom, sides and the lower deck are cut out and I am starting to get it all glued together. If I have got it right there should be some photos. When I have got the hull built I will be able to make sure the other parts fit as I cut them out.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga007.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga009.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga010.jpg)
I have laminated the bow section from balsa, it just needs carving to shape.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga008.jpg)
More to come...
Bert
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Hi Bert Looking good will be following with interest. Graham :)
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THis will be a facinating build, I've never seen this shape of hull before :D
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Hi Bert,
Build looking good, here is my lulonga using hull of styrene from hobby shop,
no paddles fitted yet or motors or drives , a pricey so now on the back burner till i have saved up to purchase ...LARRY...
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DETAIL OF DECK
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Thanks for the kind words chaps.
Your Lulonga looks really good Larry, yes the Graupner paddle kit is quite expensive - I shall have a go at making my own from scratch. If it doesn't work out I can always buy the kit anyway.
I've made some more progress, I shall shape the basic hull first and then fit the bow section and shape that last, hopefully this will avoid damaging the balsa bow laminations. When the hull is complete I intend to skin it with lightweight glass cloth. This will make it watertight and should make it more resistant to knocks.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga002.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga003.jpg)
Trial fit of the bow section.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga001.jpg)
Bottoms up
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga004.jpg)
Trial fit of the lower deck.
More to come.
Bert
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Hi Bert, Before you fit the deck I would fill the side pods with Polystyrene or Polyurethane foam, hope that they are spelt correctly, as I had a big problem with mine in all but the smoothest of water conditions taking on water into these chambers, and on one sail it nearly rolled over. I hope that you don't mind me saying this as I would hate you to find out after you have added the deck. The model is progressing very well, and makes me wish mine was on a wooden hull not a Poly carbonate one. Cheers Graham :)
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Your build looks very well done so far Bert, congratulations!
I hope you get as hooked on paddlers as we are, they just look so graceful on the water and always attract more attention than a screw driven model when sailing.
Please keep up your build blog, I'm sure a lot of people will be following it with interest.
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks for the kind words Eddy, I am enjoying the build although I'm not sure where I will be able to sail the Lulonga when she's finished. We do have a canal not far away so I guess that would do. I believe there is a lake at Basingstoke which I may look into later on.
Thanks for the advice Graham, I think I will put some foam in the compartments, though it is my intention that they will be completely sealed which is probably easier to do with a wooden hull than a plastic one.
Bert
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Hi BERT
looking good i had a bash at making paddles as shown on plan , but came out bit wobbly and did not run true,
so was not happy.......will go back and have a go when i get a bit more info......Larry...
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Hi Bert, I agree that sealing a wooden hull is probably easier than the ABS plastic one, I injected Polyurethane from an spray can obtained at the local DIY into the chambers and you would not believe how much of it came out into the main chamber through the smallest of gaps. At least I now know that even if water gets in she will still float. Watching her starting to capsize about 6 feet from the boating lake edge is not an enjoyable site I can assure you. Graham
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Hi Bert,
Go easy on the expanded foam , expands to three times it volume ,
you say you are going to skin the out side of hull , so why don't you coat the inside of hull with resin ,
i do this with all my plank on frame models all nice water tight , and makes a very strong hull , cheers Larry....
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Graham, I don't fancy the sinking feeling so I will put some foam in the outer compartments.
I will be cutting the foam from blocks, I've never had any luck with that expanding stuff, too messy!
That's a good thought with the resin Larry, I'll do that.
I hope to do the skinning later this week if time allows.
Bert
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Graham,
Be care full with the expanding foam. I used it in a model once, built the model in the winter, injected it in and trimmed the what I thought was all the excess off. I then finished up the model, during the following summer the model was on display at a show out in the sunlight. To my dismay the deck started building and then cracked, the foam raised the deck up about an inch. On investigation and repairing of the model I found that some of the foam in the very center had not expanded once the foam on the outside had sealed it off and was still sticky once it was exposed to the air it started to expand. On talking to the manufacturer I found that the foam would expand up to five times its original volume and that it should not be applied so that the expanded volume was any thicker then 2 1/2" and that if it was exposure to high heat could cause the foam to crack and the uncured foam trapped could then expand. They claimed that it was all in the instructions and any damage was not there fault.
Regards,
Gerald.
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I did some sanding on the bow laminations tonight, it's roughed out. I will finish sand it tomorrow if I get some time.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga006.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga007-1.jpg)
More to come
Bert
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BERT ;
Looks good , you will have bulwarks coming up from deck level ,
cut card templates at this stage to get the idea of bow flare , also there is a rubbing strake at deck level ,
cheers Larry...
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Here is a bow picture..Larry..
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I've been away for a couple of weeks, one of which I was in Kent where, amongst other things we took a short trip on the 'Kingswear Castle' and very good it was too.
Now I'm back and I want to get on with things but I'm a little stuck at the moment trying to decide on the electric motors I need. I want to decide on the the motors now so that I can be sure it will all fit before the main deck goes on. The write up in the mag doesn't really help, could anyone suggest what power will be needed to drive the paddles?
Bert
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Hi Bert,
fit motors and drives plus paddles before, deck works , as for motors mfa geared was used on plan ,
or some one on the site might suggest some thing different , have now paddles or motors in mine at the moment ,
waiting to purchase when i have saved up , on a pension so bit tight for money , Larry......
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After a bit of thought (not much!) I have gone for a second-hand set of 1:16 tank drive motors and gears from the 'bay.
They look like they may fit, and hopefully will be around the right speed and power. At about five quid including postage it won't break the bank if it's no good.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/TankDrive.jpg)
Hopefully they will turn up in the next couple of days so I can get on with it.
Bert
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Hi BERT ,
They look OK but what paddles are you going to use , not expert on drives , so gearing asto be right
may some body on the site may help ......Larry....
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Hi PD's......... :whistle ....Bert you are looking at a nominal 150 RPM no load speed on the paddle shaft...if your geared drives produced 250 RPM then with an electronic speed controller they would be suitable
With high speed motors and suitable gearing ...the current consumption will be relatively low but needs to be checked to ensure the speed controller can cope
Gear train [mechanical] noise may be an issue :darn
You could always work backwards & find out what model tank they were from & see what type of speed controller it had
Keep us posted.......Derek :beer
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The tank drives turned up today and they look pretty good to me.
It's difficult to measure the speed with my aeroplane tacho, but at six volts it looks to be about 200rpm, I can gear it down a bit through the chain or belt drive to the paddles so I think it's going to be ok.
The current draw at six volts is less than half an amp even when loading it up by trying to stop the rotation with my fingers so no problems there either. I can't stop it or even slow it down significantly with my fingers so the power should be enough. It does sound a bit puny at three watts per paddle though. I'm more used to 350W and more with my model aircraft but I guess that's a totally different scenario.
They are a little noisy but if I mount them on rubber I think they will be quiet enough, time will tell I guess.
Bert
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Hi PD's......Bert with that low current draw [two x 0.5 amp unloaded] ...an inexpensive ESC capable of handling say 5 amps will certainly suffice
You are correct that seemingly lower input power at geared down speeds can produce HUGE torque values that would break a finger so ...... :shhh...so best left at that ....Derek :beer
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I have ordered two of these, they are rated at 10A 4.8 - 8.4V
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/KGrHqRkwE-nGc8kuyBP2bheNnw60_12.jpg)
With postage from China the two come out at £13.28.
I will need to sort out pulleys and belts to take the drive to the paddles, but that can wait until the construction has progressed some more.
The paddles will be home made, I can't afford the Graupner units.
Bert
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HI Bert ,
making steady progress , beware what you by from china , unless tested they can be expensive,
fitted ..... a 30 amp job in my sea queen . the result a nice little fire , good job it easy access and on the water for test ,
now only use ACTION ELECTRONICS ESC , not cheap but a good product and made in England.
and good after sales service, worth a look ,.......as web page .......Larry..
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That's a good point Larry, but the current draw on this set up is very low. I will probably put a one amp fuse in each circuit just in case.
I had to do some proper measurements to check the actual speed and current draw at six volts. The test set up all a bit crude but I'm now satisfied that it will do the job. The speed at six volts is 286 RPM (measured) and the current draw tallies with what I roughly measured when the drives arrived. I will sort out a final drive of 2:1 to the paddles to get around 140 RPM.
Bert
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga001.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga003.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga002.jpg)
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I glued the lower deck in place last night and did some measuring up for the final drive to the paddles (for when I get them made).
I plan to use aluminium timing pulleys 2:1 to get the final speed about right. I have ordered these (40t and 20T):
http://www.technobotsonline.com/pulleys-and-cams/aluminium-timing-pulleys/synchroflex-t2.5x6mm.html (http://www.technobotsonline.com/pulleys-and-cams/aluminium-timing-pulleys/synchroflex-t2.5x6mm.html)
I hope my measurements are right, they came to £27 including postage which is a bit more than I wanted to pay but I couldn't find anything cheaper. I could have gone for ordinary pulleys and belts but I want to avoid any chance of them coming off.
It may seem a bit premature to be worrying about the drive at this stage of construction, but I like to know that something is going to work ok before I make it.
I have a (probably stupid) question concerning the rudder. I intend to steer by driving the paddles through a mixer, the rudder will not be used, so can I leave it off? I notice that the photos in the magazine article do not show the rudder, so is it necessary? It would be vulnerable to damage and is a possible source of leakage.
Bert
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Hi Bert,
no rudders on this model , twin motors are used to turn the model using tank steering,
action electronics have a duel ECS P94 see there web page saves you lots of work ........Larry...
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That Action electronics stuff looks really good Larry, but the price is beyond what I can pay at the moment.
I don't think that the P94 dual esc is expensive for what it does but I don't have nearly £80 to spare right now. Also it would be a bit over-specified for my set-up, I don't need 20A per motor.
I shall stick with the cheap Chinese junk that I've ordered (pun intended).
The drive stuff has arrived from Technobots and it seems that my sums were correct so that's a relief. I shall have to remove the output shaft from the gearbox and turn it down a bit. I don't know what metal it is but I can mark it with a file so I guess it will turn ok. The shaft is 8mm diameter and it needs to be 5 or 6mm to avoid having to drill too much out of the pulley.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/LulongaD005.jpg)
I need to get on with glassing the hull this week, my legs are a bit dodgy at the moment which makes it difficult to stand for long. Hopefully they will sort themselves out as the week progresses and I can get a bit more done.
Bert
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Hi Bert,
i would say that it should turn no problem if you can score it. those belts and pullies look like they should work a treat :coffee
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Hello Bert,
Drive chain looks good, will you do mock up before installing , ?...
cheers Larry..
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Thanks for the support chaps, it's much appreciated.
I shall probably try a mock-up first, I do love to see things going round and round. :o
That's my lot for the night, my supper's on it's way...
Bert
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I got back on with it today, not too much progress. I filled the joint between the lower deck and the hull.
When it's dried off I shall sand it and start glassing. I use this filler, it's very easy to sand and doesn't shrink. It's also incredibly light which makes it good for aeroplanes too.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulogan004.jpg)
Bert
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Hi PD's.......Bert in our PD Links pages you will find the path...Model Steam Engines......Maccsteam Boilers
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=links;sa=visit&id=96
In the Maccsteam site :clap you will find a simple calculation on engine steam consumption based upon number of cylinders, stroke, speed and pressure & so to determine the size of boiler required.... :bravo .....taken a step further this naturally also provides an approximate running time between boiler refills :darn
Keep us posted with more images of the vessel and boilermaking bits as you progress :beer
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hi Bert ,
Looking good , how are finding model boating after modelling air frames ?..
i used to fly models back in the 27 meg days , was member of Sutton Coldfield model club ,
and part of Jim Davis display team, happy days, cheers Larry.
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The Jim Davis display team, now that is going back!
Good for you Larry.
Building a boat is good fun , but I won't be giving up my aeroplanes!
I have glassed the hull, I have to wait until it cures so I can flat it down and give it the second coat of resin.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga%20004_zps85d058dc.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga%20002_zpsfd225d24.jpg)
Bert
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After much elbow grease with the 400 wet and dry the hull got a coat of Halfords spray can red primer. They do two kinds, one for plastic and glass fibre and another for metal and previously painted surfaces. I went for the former and it seems to have adhered well. My only misgivings are concerning the likelyhood of the matt surface picking up shiny marks. I may overspray it with some kind of clear laquer.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga003_zpsf5c65b83.jpg)
I shall now turn my attention to the paddles and drive system. the plan (if that word can be used for my haphazard meanderings) is to completely enclose the gear drives and to insulate the mountings so that there is as little sounding board effect as possible. I don't want my paddle tug clanking and whirring like a Sherman tank.
There is plenty of room for the motor/gear assemblies so that's good.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lulonga004_zps7f5cae27.jpg)
Bert
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Bert looking good, i spray my models with semi mat spray , very lightly and stand away so you don't get it patchy.Larry..
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That's a good idea Larry, semi-matt would look OK.
What spray do you use?
Bert
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I'm glad to see someone else using the tank gearboxes. I couldn't believe how good they are for the price and a lot less noisy than I thought they would be. Is there a link to Technobots website?
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Yes, I was impressed by them and I think that if they are rubber mounted they should be relatively quiet.
The Technobots site is here:
http://www.technobotsonline.com/ (http://www.technobotsonline.com/)
Bert
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looking good, almost a shame hiding that lovely wood. would be interested to see how the tank gearboxes work out
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Bit of a set back, the speed controllers arrived from China and they work fine but they won't do what I want them to do.
The problem is that the controllers have a brake feature that is activated by pulling the stick back to the 'reverse' position. The motor is set in reverse by moving the stick to neutral and again to the 'reverse' position.
I had planned to drive the controllers through a mixer so there is no way that will work. There are no means that I can see to disable the brake feature so I will have to think again Doh!.
Bert
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Most controllers can have the brake feature disabled. There should be something in the instructions that shows you how to do it.
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy, there are no instructions with these controller, I guess they think they don't need 'em.
I have tried all the usual things with stick positions etc. There are no jumpers or switches.
Anyway, I thought about it, and decided to try them set up with a mixer and I think it will be ok.
They work normally going forward with the motors changing speed according to the steering and when I want to go backwards I move the stick back once and on the second movement they go in reverse and steer just like they should.
I am relieved - I thought I had wasted my money!
I am going to start building the paddles now.
Bert
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Which mixer are you using, Bert? I'm nowhere near setting my paddler up yet but I was thinking about getting all the gear together.
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I don't know the make of mixer that I have, all the writing has worn off it - I've had it for so long!
Any 'V-tail' (aircraft) mixer would do the job.
Bert
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Hi Bert ,
Just come back from holiday i use clear spray can from Wilkerson, or humbrol semi matt , do test first ,and use lightly
build finish till happy ...see my pictures of my HDML some ware on the site Larry...
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Thanks Larry, I will look out for some of that in Wilko's this weekend.
Bert
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hi Bert,
Hows the build coming , have you done paddles yet? ...Larry//.
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Thanks for asking Larry.
Not too much progress , my right leg is a bit dodgy at the moment and I'm having trouble standing for any length of time.
I have made a lot of the parts for the paddles, hopefully the leg will settle down a bit and I can get on with it.
I'm booked in for the Bone Cruncher to have a go at it on the 14th November so after that it should be all systems go.
Bert
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HI Bert
sorry you are not well , hope to see some pics of paddle build ,
my build of paddles where a nightmare ................Larry..
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I got into the workshop for a couple of hours yesterday. I cut the 2mm ply rings and discs for the paddles.
I used a fly cutter thingy in the pillar drill. It looks a bit hair raising with all that metal flying round but so long as you keep your fingers clear of the whizzing bits it's safe to do.
I am going to do a bit more today and I will post some photos.
Bert
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WHATS A FLY CUTTING THINGY ? LARRY.
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This is my fly cutting thingy.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga004-1.jpg)
It's also known as a tank cutter thingy.
I got one side set up and glued.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lalonga006-1.jpg)
I should really have made a jig but they should come out OK.
If my legs play ball I should get the other four done this week and maybe assemble the paddle wheels. I bought some clear spray in B&Q to seal and protect the red oxide finish on the hull. I would probably been a lot cheaper in Wilco's.
Bert
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I have a similar tool that I own for cutting 'rose' holes in harpsichord etc. soundboards. I bought this some years back for my instrument building projects.
Its designed to be used manually but it's otherwise the same as the cutter described here.
Very much slower but much easier to control.
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Sounds a lot safer too, Spankbucket.
A bit more progess on the paddles. I couldn't find any 25mm dowel for the paddle centres, but I found that a cotton reel would do the job. I have simplified the construction a little and I don't think it will make any difference.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Lulonga/Lualonga002.jpg)
More to come
Bert
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Hello Bert,
paddles look good , i built mine from the plan as well but on test bed tend to run a little wobbly ..
have tried the tank motors yet mite go go done that rout my self where did you get your motors ?....
i see your model will have wings are you on red bull.... :08 ;)......
hope the legs hold up take it easy cheers Larry....
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Hello Bert.
How's the build coming on ,.?.....
been of line computer crash........... >:( but ok now ...cheers Larry...
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Hello Larry
I've had some work done on one of my knees by the Bone Cruncher Man, it's getting a bit better now and I hope to get back in the workshop this weekend, so watch this space ;D
Bert
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Got some time in the workshop today, I glued the paddles on using slower setting epoxy. Fortunately I have enough clamps.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/15bert/Paddles.jpg)
More to come...
Bert
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Hi Bert, And your Wife's pegs by the look of it, hope the result works well.
Graham
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Happy new year BERT.....
How is the build coming..........Larry...
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Hi Bert,
have you give up ..?...nice to see the paddle detail , with tank gear boxes ,
cheers Larry.....