Paddleducks
Other Marine Models => Live steam => Topic started by: potty on April 22, 2010, 04:33:32 PM
-
Hi
I don't post very often on this forum my interest is mainly Loco Engines and Stationary Engines but I do like to dip in from time to time.
Any way I've just started a thread on another forum on building the boiler for my 3 1/2" loco. The ? is would this be of any interest to this site as many of the techniques I'll be using will apply to any boiler build, if so I can run the thread her as well.
Her's a taster :--------------
Hi Chaps
I've been putting this off long enough.
But first a warning:- boilers are pressure vessel and are dangerous they are not to be taken lightly, if they fail they can cause serious injury, so due care needs to be taken when you build one. Make sure you understand the boiler regulations that apply to your part of the world, and if you have no experience of boiler building, find someone who is that can guide and mentor you.
I did a lot of research on boiler building, to some extent this was a mistake as I found a lot of contradiction in design and methods, to such an extent that I was seriously looking into buying a commercially made boiler, but this would have cost up to £1500, but I began to realise that methods and thinking have changes over the years and talking to club members and the clubs boiler inspector cleared a lot of the uncertainty up, and with encouragement I decided to have a go at building my own.
To help you Guys to understand some of the term used in the UK I've done a Crap-O-Cad of the type of boiler I will be making.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/scan0001.jpg)
By way of explanation of some of the terms:-
Stays:- addition support given to flat services
Supper Heater Tubes:- these are large tubes through which pipe work runs that takes "wet steam" collected in the steam dome back through fire box to give it an extra dose of heat.
Throat Plate:- front part of the outer fire box
Foundation Ring:- This fills the space between the outer and inner fire box
Front and Fire box Tube plate:- These are the plates that the Flue and Superheater tubes fit too.
I think the rest of the bits are self explanatory.
I bought a boiler kit for my Loco from Reeves it cost £290.
This is the kit of parts.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3558.jpg)
Everyone I've spoken to has given me the same bit of advise:- the key to good boiler making is in the preparation, so over the next week or two I'm going to spend some preparing for the build.
Cheers
Stew
-
Hi PD's ...& thanks ...''potty stew''........there are many Members on PD's with the love of steam
So welcome on behalf of the group ......we hope to see your boiler build progress ....regards :beer ....Derek
-
looks neat! looking forward to the build!
some tips that i learned during my build (you maybe already know this but if you don't it will help)
1. get a pickle bath to clean of the parts from oxidation, dirt etc. before you start soldering.
2. practice on silver soldering if you haven't done that before it helps getting things right when it's the real deal, and use some good flux!
and one last thing. to solder this, specially the big parts you are going to need some big heat, and i would recommend that you do some kind of fireplace so you can keep some of the heat in, so it just doesent goes out in the air, it helps a lot! it's amazing how fast the heat disappears from the boiler etc.
well good luck now and keep us posted :terrific
// Victor
-
Well I take that as a yes so:----
OK Made a start not to exciting but every journey begins and ends with a step.
You may think I'm sad but I like to plan out jobs as best I can before I start, I use to make my living designing building and testing items that could be a bit hazardous, if you didn't get your preparation right:- I just can't get out of the habit.
So after much reading and talking to people and listening to advice, I made out a list of items I thought I may need I may end up not using everything but its better to be prepared than wanting. I started my To Do List I'll add to this as thing progress, and as putting a boiler together is complicated and the order of assembly is important:- I listed the order I would assemble the boiler, I may combine some of the operations or even change things round a bit as they go but the shear act of making the list helps make things clearer in your mind:- its all part of the learning curve.
Her's the lists
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3580.jpg)
The first job I thought I would tackle was to make some clamps I want to leave them outside to go rusty so that the solder wont stick to them to easy so the sooner I get them made the better.
A rummage through the scrap box turned these bits of material up.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3576.jpg)
I burn the paint off the long bars and just squared the ends and sides up in the mill and drilled and tapped them as for toolmakers clamps, they will get a bit of heat so nothing too posh, as long as they will do the job.
The shorter bars again were squared up and a slot milled across and the end drilled and tapped M5, I rounded the jaws off in two of these so that I could grip the rim of the tube without the sharp edges damaging the soft copper.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3578.jpg)
I was going to make a pair of tongs but them I remembered these.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3579.jpg)
I bought them at a car boot sale many years ago, don't know why I just thought they would be handy one day, well their day has arrived ;D
Cheers
Stew
-
Thanks for you comments and advice guys.
Bit more progress I checked the kit of part out and to be honest the flanging is very rough, they look like a Gorilla with a sledge hammer went to work on them. The fire box tube plate should fit in the boiler tube:- No way its about 3mm big
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3585.jpg)
So decided to make a set of former plates and do the job myself, for one off use you can make formers from hardwood or MDF, but the last time I used hard wood I ended up with an allergic rash that took a month to clear up, so nothing for is I'll just have to use ally jig plate a lot more hard work, but one thing old Stewpot is not afraid of is hard work, so after 1 1/2 hr a sore arm, and a bucket of sweat, I got them rough cut out of the plate.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3582.jpg)
The smoke box tube plate former is round so, the rough cut plate was set up for friction turning.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3590.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3591.jpg)
Before taking an hammer to the copper I annealed it by taking it to a red heat and quenching it in water, this gave me a good feal for the size of burner I'll have to use when I come to solder I ended up using my next to largest burner.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3593.jpg)
The build guide recommends allowing 3/64 for the plate thinning under the hammer but I gradually reduced the dia of the former trying the tube plate in the tube taking a bit more of the former bashing the plate and tryinng it in the tube until I got a nice push fit.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3595.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3605.jpg)
Next job the fire box former, this is a job for the mill.
I squared the plate up then dolloped some blue on the plate then I used a centre and the DRO feature on the mill and a set of compasses to mark out the shape of the former and and hole positions I then centre popped all round the line.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3602.jpg)
Back on the mill to mill the shape out you could use the RT for the Radiuses but that level of accuracy is not required I used a trusty old file to bring the shape to the scribed line.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3603.jpg)
Her's the former and the tidied up fire box plates.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3606.jpg)
Cheers
Stew
-
Thing have been a little slow, bin on Gardening Duties and looking after our grand son.
Any way made some progress with a backward step thrown in, more about this later.
Made the former for the backhead plate you this former for the throat plate as well. First square it up so that you've got four good edges on each face, then blue it up and mark it out on the mill.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3608.jpg)
Then centre pop the line to give you something to work too.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3607.jpg)
Then mill out the shape I used the rotory table this time, it just fitted the clamping is not too elligant, but hay:- its effective.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3609.jpg)
Then it was just a matter of tidying up the plates on the former her they are all done with the formers.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3610.jpg)
Now to drill the tube plates now I know that "drilling soft copper can be tricky", :ranting I've seen lots of pics where guys have mounted tubes plates onto lathe face plates so that the holes can be bored because "drilling soft copper can be tricky":ranting but for some reason I decided to do the drilling on my pillar drill, its not a bad pillar drill but its not as good as my mill for drilling, I clamped the smoke box tube plate onto a plank of wood and drilled the first 3/8" hole all was well, now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky", :ranting second ran out nearly into the first hole that I drilled, I stopped and tried rectifying it by drilling from the other side but this only made things worse:- strike one tube plate
:ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting
OK it's a scrapper:- so decided to drill the rest of the holes any way to perfect the best method.
Over too the mill:- this is the set up, the plate was position over a slot for the drill to run into and clamping onto a chunk of wood in the middle, so the flange wouldn't be damaged.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3611.jpg)
That worked like a dream why didn't I do that to begin with :ranting
OK have a go with the 3/4" supper heater holes now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky", :ranting so similar set up, but this time I sat the plate on some parallels flat side on, as the 3/4" was to wide to fit between a slot,:-a 3/8" pilot drill then straight in with the 3/4" now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky", :ranting that one wandered off centre as well I should have used another pilot drill.
OK second 3/4" hole this time 3/8" followed by 1/2" followed by 3/4" perfect
This is the scrap plate, the 3/4" hole on the left is the one that run out. you can work out for your selves which 3/8" hole went wrong.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3612.jpg)
Guess what I'll be buying at the Harrogate show, still I've got the formers now.
Stew
Who knows that "drilling soft copper can me tricky" :squareone
-
Picked up a nice bit of 2.5mm thick copper the drawing spec is for 13g 2.33mm so its on the safe side, while I was their they cut me a 2" lump of 15/8 phos bronze for the steam dome bush, and I also picked up a length of 1/8 phos bronze to make some closing screws, and a rod of Easy Flo No1 silver solder this has a slightly higher melting point than Easy Flo No2 that I'm going to use on the bulk of the boiler, but their are a couple of places that I want to use this higher melting point solder, as the joint will be subject to quite bit of high temperatures when I'm soldering additional joints close by.
Work on the new fire box tube plate first job mark out a circle 3 7/8 dia (3 3/8 + 2 * 1/4) the 1/4 is so that the flange can be formed.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3613.jpg)
Then mark a 3 3/8 dia circle so the former can be centred, then anneal the plate, clamp the disc in the vice with the former and start to fold the flanges over with hammer blows, the copper starts to work harden quite quickly you can feel the material stiffen under the hammer don't try and force it or the copper will split, anneal the plate again.
This is it after the second anneal.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3615.jpg)
In total I annealed it 7 times before the flange had formed over onto the former.
This is it complete after an hour in the pickle bath.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3635.jpg)
Well that me back where I started before I try drilling the plate again I'm going to have a bit of an experiment and make some kit that should make the job easyer.
This is going to be a bit :offtopic: I want to grind a drill up specifically for sheet metal whilst searching my drill stash for a spare 3/8 and 3/4 drills I came across this sorry site:-
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3622.jpg)
I must have picked it up out of the scrap where I use to work.
So I decided to give it some TLC, my Dad taught me how to grind drills up by hand when I was an apprentice many years ago, and like riding a bike its just something I can do, if you asked me to explain it I couldn't, I could show you but explain it no.
Any way this is the result.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3631.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3632.jpg)
And the proof of the pudding.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3634.jpg)
Still got the touch :D
Stew
-
Quick up date.
John Bogstandard has kindly given me a loan of some imperial step drills:- Thanks John
But I found a problem in using them three of the holes are right up against the flange and the drill will catch it.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3645.jpg)
So I ground a 3/8 drill up as suggested by Rob :thumbup: but it cut too 0.020" over size but I found a 23/64 drill among my stash, most of these drill I inherited from my Dad and its a weard and wonderful collection, but don't knock it you can't beat weard . :nrocks: . So I ground that up and it gave a hole that cleaned up nicely with a 3/8 hand reamer.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3659.jpg)
Hand a practice with the scrap tube plate, I used a drop of milk as a cutting fluid as suggested by John:- Semi skimmed worked ok
And this is the result.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3661.jpg)
The bit of sheet is 0.5 mm thick
Top Job
I then drilled 3mm pilot holes in the former using the mill DRO this is the set up.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3669.jpg)
And made a stubby centre pop out of a bit of 3mm silver steel (drill rod)
And marked the position of the holes in the new boiler tube.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3641.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3642.jpg)
I decided not to drill the tubes just yet as I wont to ask the boiler inspector a couple of questions, I'm a bit concerned with the closeness of some of the tubes to the flange, the drill will just kiss the flange, and I was wondering if a should slightly reposition these holes.
So I'll get on with something else.
Stew
-
Stew......you couldn't ask for a better mentor :hammer than Mr Moore.......he likes his :coffee you know .....Derek
-
Hi Derek
I'm lucky to live a five minute walk away from John, and we regularly have a chin wag and coffee.
He keeps me going in the right direction.
Stew
-
OK Stew......the next time you are talking...could you please inform Mr Moore that I have a 1.025 kg package of dried up beef bones awaiting shipment from OZ to CREWE Engineering for Bandit
I know that bogs will get a laugh from that.....
mmmmm...... from memory he has one can of beer in the fridge from 2002 & he calls it MUCK.....
I do hope that Maralyn is OK...........Derek :beer
-
Derek
Mal is doing fine.
Stew
-
At the club night on Tuesday I took my scrap tube plate along more to get the Chaps talking and it really paid off, some of the old guys are have lots of experience building boilers, along with offers of help if I got stuck I got lots of advice and tips to get the job going.
Any way on with the tube plates:-
I clamped a chunk of wood to the mill table and drilled a hole though it to clear the drill and another for a clamp bolt.
This is the set up.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3699.jpg)
To drill the holes I started them with a centre drill then for the 3/8 a 8mm cone drill and then a letter U drill the guys at the club recommend not reaming to size but to leave it slightly under size and turn a small step on the boiler tube, this way it will have something to sit against and not fall through when you start to solder.
I used the cone drill for the 3/4 as this was giving a hole that was under size on the tube again I'll take a fine skim off the tube.
Here they are finished.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3700.jpg)
Next job skim the boiler tube square and too length.
So that the chuck won't damage the tube I turned up a wood plug a nice tight fit in the tube.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3691.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3693.jpg)
With one plug in the chuck end I couldn't get the tube running true at the steady end as the tube was oval so I turned a second plug up for that end as well this pulled the ovality out of the tube.
This is the set up
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3695.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3696.jpg)
Cheers
Stew
-
Things have slowed down a bit on the boiler build I've got a paying job that will take up some of my time for the next couple of week.
Got a bit done drilled the holes in the Backhead sorry no pics and made a start on the boiler tube.
Marking it out used the mill table as a flat face.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3713.jpg)
In order to hold the tube steady for cutting I used this clamp I made it a few years back for another job:- can't remember what :scratch:
Just two pieces of wood with a coach bolt.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3714.jpg)
This is it in use
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3718.jpg)
I used a junior hacksaw to do the business, this one has a sentimental attachment for me my father made it many years ago, I didn't want to use a 12" saw as the tooth space would be too wide for the tube and tend to rip also I wanted to take it steady so I got a nice clean straight cut. As the saw was cutting at an angle I didn't take it past the line I left a bit of metal holding the tube together whilst I did the next cut.
This is the next cut, the tool makers clamp is to to stop the cut ends from vibrating and making a farting noise.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3720.jpg)
The with a junior blade held in a bit of brass chim complete the cuts square.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3721.jpg)
This is the cut tube.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3730.jpg)
The cut will be bent out to form the wings of the firebox, I tried to bend them out as cut but the copper is quite hard so I'll anneal it as I didn't want to force it. As the annealed tube will need pickling I,m at a bit of a stop until I get my pickle bathe made.
I've collected one a two things together for the boiler build.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3733.jpg)
The black box is a case from an industrial battery fork lift truck or something like that, and will be part of the pickle bath, the bits of ally behind it will form part of my brazing hearth. At the Harrogate show I picked up some of these blankets, for the hearth.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3736.jpg)
I also have a collection of fire bricks.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3737.jpg)
Getting there slowly
Stew
-
Hi PD's.......& keep the pics comming Stew.........:hammer ...many PD members love steam .. :crash ....especially if you have our ":no1b Bogs " on your side but..... :shhh .....Derek
-
Thanks Derek
I didn't think anyone was following this not having got a lot of response.
OK went on the hunt to B&Q (great big hardware store) for some Thermalite/Celcon blocks (Autoclaved Aerated Concrete (AAC)) picked up four half price 50p each as they were damaged, but for my use as a hearth that won't matter.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3743.jpg)
This afternoon I've made a lid for the tank
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3741.jpg)
Still got to put a lock on it just to keep the contents safe away from animals and children
I spotted an oblong bucket at B&Q for keeping paint in for roller application looked just the right size to fit in the tank and take the boiler.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3742.jpg)
The acid will be in the bucket and the tank will act as a second skin containing accidental leaks and splashes.
Stew
-
Hi Stew you dont know me but I have been following your build and because I know nothing about metalwork I learnt a lot .
Like my Dad use to say keep yer eyes open an yer gob shut So dont think no-one is watching your build I am.
Old Man
-
"I didn't think anyone was following this not having got a lot of response."
We are watching, just didn't see anything that needed comment that Derek hadn't posted.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Thats OK Guys:- I was getting a bit worried that the thread wasn't quite fitting into the interests of the Forum.
That good advice you're Dad gave Old Man ;D
Cheers
Stew
-
Check the views,
246 Views
We are watching. keep posting.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Hi Stew!
I've watched the boiler build from the start and am (excuse the pun) riveted! I think the reason you haven't had many responses is that we are all learning from your very clear posts - so we don't have to ask questions!
Keep at it - please.
All the best
stuart
-
Thanks guys
Well yesterday was a case of best laid skeams and all that. I'd more or less got the afternoon free to get on with the boiler, but my daughter turned up with 2 month old grandson, now if theirs anything better than a grandson for keeping a grandad out of his shop please tell me ;D, so only manages to get a little done.
Cutting out the rad on the throat plate using jewelers saw and home made sawing table.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3744.jpg)
Throat plate having first fitting to boiler tube.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3745.jpg)
I annealed the boiler tube using a rough hearth pieced together with the thermalite blocks and the biggest burner I've got for my torch just to try it out, the blocks worked well but the burner scared the crap out of me talk about a roaring flame, not too easy to control, I've got two torches so using the next size burner down with both torches will give me more control when it comes to soldering.
As you can see from the pic the acid bath worked will, I ended up using the acid salts only needed to make up 3 liters to cover boiler and adding about two tablespoons of salts gave me a Ph between 2 and 3 (if I'm reading the indicator paper correct)
Cheers
Stew
-
Potty
I understand Annealing and I vaugly remember pickling from years ago - but please refresh me on the purpose of 'Pickling' the boiler?
Is it just for preparation for hard soldering or does it serve some other purpose?
All the best
Stuart
-
Stuart
Pickling cleans the scale off the boiler and gets the surface nice and clean for the soldering.
Copper as you know work hardens you have to anneal it to get it soft to do this you heat it up to a red colour for a minute or so then you can then let it cool down on its own, or you can quench it in water, the quenching doesn't do anything. After annealing it will be nice and soft I could bend the boiler tube just with my fingers, but its surprising just how quickly it hardens up.
Cheers
Stew
-
PD's....according to my mate "bogstandard", .... :goodnews ...the pickling solution is also used POST silver soldering to soften the glass like flux residue :c017 Mr Moore ...Derek
-
What's the active acid?
Stuart
-
Derek
Yes your correct I forgot about the post soldering benefits of Pickling.
Stuart
The stuff I'm using is this:-
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2f&WD=acid&PN=Dry_Acid_Pickling_Salts%2ehtml%23aACD100#aACD100
This is nasty stuff, you can mix it up to quite a high strength, a acid with a PH of 3 - 2 is strong, instead of this stuff I would recommend using citric acid you can buy it from the chemist as used for baking or home brew, it takes longer to work but its a lot safer and environmentally friendly .
Why are you using the nasty stuff you may ask?, well two reasons:-
First I bought it over 12 months ago before I found out about using citric acid so I'd got it.
Second I have experience and training in running metal finishing processes using Chromic, Phosphoric and Sulphuric acids.
I've taken and will take quite a few precautions with the stuff:-
I've built a double skin lockable container.
I've only mixed the minimum amount to get the job done.
I know when mixing you must add the acid to the water
Correct Protective clothing Goggles Rubber gloves etc
I've got clean running water available.
I will use washing soda to nutralise it for disposal
I know to let the job cool before adding it to the acid:- acid can boil up inside tubes and spray out.
Cheers
Stew
-
Thanks Stew!
I do quite a bit of 'hard' soldering when producing brass and copper fittings. I hadn't thought of using Citric acid (of which I have VAST amounts as we have to descale our pipes avery month). I Also have access to Hydrochloric and Sulphuric - believe it or not available in supermarkets here for drain cleaning!!!!!
I'll stick to the Citric acid I think - thanks for the info.
All the best
Stuart
-
Well yesterday was yet another case of "best laid skeams of mice and men all gang away". I could see the whole day in front of me in the shop, but I'd forgotten about the Boss, we'd booked seats for a Don McClane (of American Pie Fame) In Liverpool for the evening, but the Boss thought it would be a good idea to go early and have a wander around the shops visit the Tate modern art Gallery at the Albert Docks etc etc so strike one afternoon in the shop. Enjoyed the visit and concert though, and came across one interesting fact you guys across the pond will be interested in, theirs a very nice bronze statue at Albert Dock commemorating emigration donated to the city by the Mormon Church, it's plaque states that over 9 Million people emigrated from Europe to North America through the port of Liverpool:- just what % of the population are decended from those emigrants now :scratch: the mind boggles.
Back on topic:-
The wings of the fire box rapper need to be extended to do this I will have to make a joint, this can be a simple lap joint but this will take up some water space or a joggled joint, I'm going to use a joggle joint. First thing make a joggling tool, now this isn't going to be a fancy tool just dog rough and functional.
Mill a bit of flat steel (garage door thanks Ralph) flat and put a groove up it 1/4" + plate thickness + a bit for luck.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3751.jpg)
Then with the plate well annealed and a 1/4" square bar squeeze the plate into the grooves.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3754.jpg)
This will bend it out a bit wack it back square with a bit of ally bar and a hammer.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3755.jpg)
And thats the joggled joint formed.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3757.jpg)
Cheers
Stew
-
Now if you've got a nervous disposition look away now:- this is going to be cheap, nasty, and as rough as the proverbial Bears back side,
(If any of you guys have felt a Bears back side and lived to tell the tail I would love to know just how rough it is) :D
But It'll do the job :proj:
Making the brazing Hearth.
Fist off cut a boiler size hole in the base of a large ally oven tray:- the reason for the hole will become apparent in next weekish.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3759.jpg)
Then four bolts in each corner fastens it to the top of a work mate, and a bit of scrap ally sheet pop riveted to two sides makes the wind shield.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3761.jpg)
Now it was a great bit of advice that I got to use Thermalite block cut in half with an old saw for insulation. (You must keep them dry)
They cut like butter. :thumbup:
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3762.jpg)
And her we have it's all ready for the first soldering job and all for less than a ten squid, and build in an afternoon.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3764.jpg)
Stew
-
Got some of the boiler bushes made whilst waiting for some 1/16" rivets to arrive.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3765.jpg)
The bush on the left is for the safety valve, the drawing states 3/8"*26 thread, checked with Reeves what thread they sold their safety valves with 3/8*32 so thats what I made it, the middle two are for the regulator they screw into the end plates, the one with all the holes is soldered into the boiler barrel and the steam dome fastens onto it.
Stew
-
Well this has been a very frustrating week, I ordered the 1/16 copper rivets on Monday on Friday I got a call from the supplier to say they were out of stock :-\ , so I've reordered from another supplier, in the mean time I've got on with some house jobs and earned a few brownie points, and made some more bushes, and bronze screws to hold the boiler together whilst its soldered.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3790.jpg)
I found that the boiler flue tubes varied in length by 1/8 they need to be all the same length or the sort ones will be at risk of coming adrift during soldering.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3776.jpg)
Skimmed one end square de-burred the bore and skimmed the Dia for 3mm for a lose fit in the tube plate.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3773.jpg)
Then found the shortest tube and set the hight gauge to that and marked all the other tubes off to that length.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3774.jpg)
Skimmed the length to the mark and turned OD same as the other end.
With all the tubes trimmed to length and a small step turned time to have a trial assembly to the tube plates.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3779.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3785.jpg)
The smokebox tube plate is the wrong way round, this is because I want the end of tubes to sit flat on a plate whilst I solder the tubes to the firebox, the smokebox tube plate will be one of the last things to be soldered so I must remember to turn it round.
My plan is to solder the wrapper extensions first then the throat plate and wrapper, but I need those darn rivets if I don't get them soon it will be plan B turn some 1/8 rivets down.
Stew
-
Went to the club track to see if I could touch base with the boiler inspector, and find out if he will be around next week, he wasn't there but I was telling one of the members about the my lack of rivets, he said I've got some you can have just follow me home, People can be real nice:-
So looks like I'll be soldering next week.
Stew
-
Well got the first joint soldered the fire box outer rapper extension:- the part to be joined were given a soak in the pickle for 1/2 hr then throughly cleaned with some wire wool, flux applied and the extensions were loosely riveted in place.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3791.jpg)
Then onto the hearth a piece of solder was cut the length of the joint and placed on the joint I did an outside and an inside joint at the same heating, and I bunged the thermal blanket up the tube to keep the heat where I wanted it. fed a little solder into the joint and onto the head of the rivets
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3794.jpg)
I let it cool for five minutes then quenched it in water then into the pickle for half an hour, the pickle was then washed off in water, and the joint inspected, apply another dollop of solder to the joint, then with the boiler flipped over the other way and with less solder this time and the whole lot heated up again and a little more solder fed into the joint and on the other side of the rivets.
Back in to the pickle as before another clean and inspection not to happy with a couple of areas so again as before more flux and a bit more solder in the areas on concern.
Here we go outside.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3796.jpg)
And inside
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3800.jpg)
Well thats me done for the day the rest of the day will be taken up with that great British institution:- the family barbeque, that is traditionally held on the first and often only dry sunny day of the year. The pleasant sound of birds song and smell of flowers will be replaced by the sound of male of the household cussing as he struggles to get the barbeque lit and the stench of charcoal, lighter fuel, and cremated sausages.
Cheers
Stew
-
Well had a master class from John this afternoon on silver soldering, we soldered the throat plate up, and I learnt a lot in the process, it really is a two man job using propane on a lump of copper like this boiler.
First of all I gave the parts a good clean first in the pickle then with a wire brush, I loosely riveted the throat plate in place with four rivets one mid way on each side of the fire box and one each side of the boiler tube where the saw cut ended, closed any big gaps by tapping and pinching with pliers, and applied flux. One thing I learnt from Johns was you don't need a lot of flux I was lathering it on.
This was the first set up. Sorry didn't take a lot of pics it a process where once you start you can't keep breaking off to take a pic, so you'll have to put up with my description.
We placed a length of 3 mm silver solder down each side of the plate an along the back, then with me operating one torch for back ground heating and John adding the filler rod and controlling the heat with a smaller torch and instructing me where to direct the background heat and when to take it off, with the top once done we flipped the boiler on its side and soldered up around the boiler tube, flipped it on the other side and ditto , allowed it to cool and have 1/2hr in the pickle a carefull inspection showed a couple of areas that needed a bit more work, so same procedure but concentrating on areas as required.
This is what the job looks like.
Top
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3803.jpg)
Inside
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3807.jpg)
The fillet around the curve is on the other side and as its down the bottom of the tube it doesn't take a good pic, so you'll have to believe me:- its real nice.
I'll run this past the inspector.
Stew
-
Didn't get anything done today except to try the boiler the boiler in the frame of the loco.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3809.jpg)
The frames somewhat stripped down, I've removed the front wheel and the connecting rod so that I could trial fit the water and oil pumps.
You can read the build log her http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=547.0
Thanks
Stew
-
Got a little more done today forming the firebox rapper:-
The rapper was cut to the correct size so first job was to anneal and pickle it then mark the middle and using the end plate former get it bent roughly to shape with the help of the vice, just by hand.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3817.jpg)
It was annealed and pickled again
Then using the tube plates as formers and bits of woods as bats its nocked to shape.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3819.jpg)
Tomorrow's job is to solder together the flue tubes the fire box tube plate and the rapper.
Cheers
Stew
-
Another master class from John on silver soldering.
This is the set up for soldering the flue tubes to the firebox tube plate, stepping the tubes worked great in prevent the tube plate slipping down, I cut a bricks to length to give a bit of support.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3821.jpg)
Some rings of solder were made by simply wrapping the rod around one of the tubes and snipped them off, the tube ends and tube plate were fluxed, and the solder rings placed over each of the tubes.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3822.jpg)
One things John has taught me is that you don't directly heat up the solder you start by adding background heat to the job slowly bringing the flame up to where the joint is to be formed this way you gat a uniform heat in the joint. We worked with two burners one each side of the job as the solder started to melt we moved the torch slowly around so that each ring of solder was melted in turn.
With the tubes fixed and after a spell in the pickle the rapper was soldered to the tube, this time the job was flipped over so that the tubes were on top, again lengths of solder were placed along the joint, and additional solder fed into the joint as it melted.
Here's the job before pickle.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3823.jpg)
And after
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3827.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3828.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3831.jpg)
Cheers
Stew
-
mmmmmm PD's...we know Stew has the master teacher.....but from this work...I suggest the teacher has a good student :bravo
Did you preheat the silver solder wire & wind it onto a same sized tube to pre bend the rings?......Derek :beer
-
Thanks Derek
No the silver solder wire wasn't pre heated, it was just wound around one of the tubes before assembly, two sizes of solder was used 1.5mm and 3mm, the rings were made from the 1.5mm stuff, the 3mm stuff was used to placed along the seams and the 1.5mm used as filler.
Stew
-
Well the soldering is on the back burner (pun) :D until I gat the work done so far, checked out by the boiler inspector. So did a bit of shop maintainance.
Nocked this tooling rack up,
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3841.jpg)
This frees up some space which in my small shop is at a premium.
Then did one or two machining jobs for the boiler first up the "Fire Hole" no not the sort you get after a night down the pub and a curry, the sort they shuvel the coal through.
Its made from a bit of thick wall copper tube:- a short step turned on each end so that you've got a 1/4" collar, a quick anneal and a soak in the pickle.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3836.jpg)
Then a squeeze in the vice to make it oval and here it is on the backhead.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3839.jpg)
Next up the bush for the water gauge, for some reason there is no dimensioned drawing for it, just a note saying 1/4* 32 thread. So this is my interpretation of what's required.
Using a chunk of Phos Bronze mark it out and rough it out.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3850.jpg)
This is one of those awkward jobs where if you don't machine it out in the correct order you'll end up not being able to grip it to finish the job.
Then as its got to fit on the 3 1/2 " dia boiler tube, set up the boring head to cut that dia. The body of the head is 50 mm so (88.9 - 50) / 2 = 19.5 thats what the tool has to stand out above the body to cut a 3 1/2 " dia.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3842.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3843.jpg)
With that set, pop the job in the vice, centre drill for the 1/4*32 zero up the DRO swap to the boring head and cut the rad.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3852.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3856.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3858.jpg)
Then back to the zero position and drill for the thread.
Flip it round and drill the joining hole.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3861.jpg)
A clean up with a file and this is it on the boiler tube.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3871.jpg)
Stew
-
Showed the boiler to the inspector today big thumbs up . :)
Stew
-
Hi Stew, why wouldn't the boiler inspector give a big thimbs up? The work you've shown on here is very impressive.
cheers
Jim
-
Thanks Jim
I took the boiler to the club track to show the inspector, as the weather wasn't too bad there were quite a few locos running and members hanging around, the inspector was looking at a couple of other boilers so I just laid my efforts on the table and waiting for it's turn, every one who came into the club house made a bee line for the boilers and gave them a good eye balling, all got the thumbs up.
Most of the guys are experienced builders and it was interesting to see and hear their experiences and how then went about boiler building, its quite interesting in just how variable designs and methods are.
Thanks again for your interest
Stew
-
Got a little bit more done today, cut the fire hole in the firebox back plate for the, just making it a nice fit just a little bit of movement from the fire hole ring.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3872.jpg)
Then soldered the ring in place, and while I was at it I solder some of the bushes in the backhead.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3873.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3874.jpg)
Thats a little more done.
Stew
-
Things bin a bit slow as we had a short holiday in London.
The guys at the club and the boiler inspector advised me to use rivet stays as they are far easyer to put in and just as effective, as the girder stays specified in the drawing. I couldn't get any rivets long enough so decided to make some out of 3/16 copper rod, I made a little upsetting jig this is simply a 3/16 hole in a chunk of steel, split through so that the rivet can be removed. To make the rivets I cut some 40mm length of copper bar, annealed them then put one in the jig with a short length protruding grip it tight in the vice and give it a good wallop with a hammer to upset the head. You can get the idea from the pic.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3875.jpg)
Another bit of advice was not to try drilling rivet hole through both plates at the same time as the drill just wonders and the stays end up crooked, best to carfully mark the two parts out and drill them separately, this is the boiler tube marked out.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3886.jpg)
And the set up to hold the boiler on the mill table for drilling.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3884.jpg)
Drilling the stay holes, and safety valve hole
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3889.jpg)
Drilling the hole for the steam dome.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3888.jpg)
for some reason the steam dome hole was going off line so finished the job off with a file.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3892.jpg)
Steam dome bush fitted.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3895.jpg)
Steam dome bush soldered to the boiler.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3904.jpg)
Drilling the stay holes in the firebox.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3891.jpg)
And a trial fitting of the parts the stays are not fully assembled in place.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3897.jpg)
John was coming over this afternoon to help solder the stays but it was raining so we,ve put it off until Thursday.
Cheers
Stew
-
The rain kept off today so manages to get the crown stays done.
The parts were given a good clean and the rivets assembled as the rivet passed through the water space I threaded a ring of easy flow solder onto it, the parts were then fluxed and another ring of solder added to the outside of the boiler tube that way the solder between the plate fed the joint with the fire box and the outside solder fed the boiler tube: so that we did the outside and the inside at the same heating.
The boiler was placed on the hearth firebox down, and with a large torch in the firebox and one smaller torch on the end of the rivet, on a roving mission, the solder soon melted all looked good, so after 1/2 hr in the pickle this is what we got.
Inside
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3916.jpg)
Outside
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3922.jpg)
In between
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3926.jpg)
All the joints had a nice fillet of solder :D
Before I do some more I need to get a few more rods of solder.
The next job will be the throat plate stays and the side stays:- 54 in total.
Thanks for your interest chaps
Cheers
Stew
-
Picked up some more silver solder yesteday I recon I will have put about £30 worth into the boiler by the time its complete. Got on with drilling the rest of the stays after carfully marking out started by drilling the holes in the throat plate, its a a real awkward position up underneath the boiler tube, so that I can reach made up a extended centre drill with a 1/8" drill at the other end:- this is the beast.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3934.jpg)
Drill a hole in the end and stuck them in place with Loctite.
They ran out quite a bit so had to get them running as best I could with a perswader :hammer: also centre popping the hole helped because of the length it was quite flexable so it found position for itselfe.
This is the set up first all the holes were centre drilled.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3930.jpg)
And drilled 1/8 right through throat plate and fire box.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3933.jpg)
And her it is with the stays assembled.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3938.jpg)
Called it a day at that and went in to watch the footie.
Stew
-
A little feed back would be nice Chaps even it was to say:- what a load of crap.
Got some more prep work done today for the next soldering campaign.
Drilled the holes for the side stays, 28 each side right through outer wrapper and fire box wrapper.
This is the set up the well annealed soft copper needed some support from Jacks, centre drill first then 1/8" drill, every fourth hole I pooped a rivet into to keep everything lined up
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3943.jpg)
Gave the stays a trial fit, it looks like a hedgehog.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3946.jpg)
When it comes to soldering I'm going to thread a ring of solder over each stay as it passes through the water cavity, and one ring around the head of the rivet in the fire box that way each stay will get two rings of solder one to fill the fire box wrapper and the other to fill outer wrapper.
Made the rings by winding the solder around a length of 1/8 bar then snipping them off to make the ring.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3947.jpg)
And her they all are all 130 they used up 4 lengths of solder at 2 squid a length.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3951.jpg)
Cheers
Stew
-
A little feed back would be nice Chaps even it was to say:- what a load of crap ...
Not at all, it looks really good to me :)
-
I'm sorry, it's hard to talk with your jaw on the ground and your tongue flopped on the keyboard as you sit in awe. I'm just admiring your amazing work. Keep it up and keep the pics coming.
Thanks, Randy
-
Thanks Guys
Sorry about the dig but I was beginning to feel lonely with no feed back or ?, the other forums I'm posting to I'm getting lots of ?, but these are engineering based forums perhaps thats why.
Cheers
Stew
-
Nice work! What kind of locomotive is this going to be?
-
KNO3
Its for a 3 1/2" gauge loco a 2-4-0 LNWR Precedent they have a fine example at York (Hardwick), the design I'm following is for a loco called Mabel by LBSC other wise known as Curly Lawrence he's long gone in fact this was the last loco he designed.
Her's a pic of a finished Model
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/JUMBO1.jpg)
Thanks for your interest.
Stew
-
Hi Stew,
I haven't commented much as it looks to be going so well. Mabel is considered to be one of Curly's best designs. There is one shot that I am concerned about though the last one posted on June 14, 2010, 10:52:29 AM, at the top of the photo there is a lump of solder that does not look like it received enough heat, and there looks to be gaps in the foundation bars at the corners.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Well spotted Gerald
The lump top right is solder that flowed down from the joint after a reheat there is still plenty of solder in the joint with penetration all the way through, the lap is just over 1/4", I'm hopping the lump will melt some more when I solder the foundation ring,
You can't get dead square bends hence the gap, I'll fill it with a small bit of copper made from a rivet, the rest the solder will take care off.
Cheers
Stew
-
Sounds good, I had thought that you had already done to foundation ring. I haven't done a locomotive style boiler, because of all the stay work, I have been following this build with interest (still not convinced I want to try one yet).
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Cheers Gerald
The thought of doing the stays was really concerning me as well, one reasons being having read a few books on the subject they all made it sound complicated:- screwing the stays in soldering then soft soldering the head etc etc, but the current practice is to use copper rivets silver soldered in place which is a lost less complicated.
With Johns help and guidance soldered the rest of the stays as for the crown stays we put a ring of solder in the water cavity and a ring on the head of the rivets positioned the boiler with the end of the rivets sticking down applied heat to the ends with the big torch and used the little torch for background heat and to locally boost heat where required, all went well, just a couple of stays needed a second heating and a bit more solder applying on the outside, the inside (fire box) all soldered well.
Here a few pics
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3952.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3954.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3957.jpg)
Taking it along to the inspector this Sunday whilst there I'll buy yet more solder.
Stew
-
Bin away for a few days with my 85 year old Dad just to give him a bit of a holiday did him a world of good.
Soldered the fire box back plate in place, couldn't get hold of John at short notice so press ganged my wife onto the job, she was a bit wary of the roaring gas torch at first, but she soon got the idea and carried out instruction faultlessly with no arguments, which for a strong minded woman must have bin very difficult.
This is the result
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3970.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3973.jpg)
Started to mark the back head out for the fire hole and ran into a problem, The drawing for the fire box back plate is wrong it doesn't match up with the position shown an the back head, it positions it too high, I'm stuck with what is a wrong part assembled to the boiler, at the moment the fire door will foul the water gauge.
It looks like I'll have to juggle thing around to get things to fit, still thinking the problem through.
Stew
-
Hi PD's ....& Stew says ...."Bin away for a few days with my 85 year old Dad just to give him a bit of a holiday did him a world of good".
:bravo Stew.......paddlers & boilers are great..........but 85 YO dads are too...I hope you had the chance to have a :gathering & a few :beer with your dad
Derek
-
The more I look at your boiler building skills, the less inclined I feel to build my own boiler, as silver soldering seems to be a lot of work on these large pieces.
-
Cheers Derek I enjoyed the time I spent with my Dad.
kno3
Don't be put off having a go at boiler building the important thing is preparation and taking your time, since i've started my boiler I've not bin working at it exclusively managed to fit in some tooling work around it, if you've not done any silver soldering try experimenting on some small parts, getting the heat in the correct place is halve the battle you have to sneak up on the job with the heat try and avoid directly heating the solder heat from the opposite side of the job, that way the solder is drawn to the heat.
Any way Nocked up a fire door this morning so I could 3D the problem :scratch:
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3976.jpg)
Spent a bit of time down the club talking the option over with the guys, the best option would be to have the hinges at the bottom of the door, apparently on small gauge engines this arrangement is easy for driving, also did a bit of on line searching and found an engine the same as mine with the door hinged from the bottom it looks like the builder came across the same problem as me. Just to make sure I'm going to make the bottom end of the water gauge and the feed clacks so that I can check they won't foul the door, if they do only option will be to make a new back head and position the clacks under the door.
Stew
-
Thanks Guys
Made enough of the fitting so i could try the fit out, for those interested this is how to fabricate small boiler fitting up, this is for the clacks.
First turn up the parts drill a cross hole in the body 3mm, on the union leave a small boss 3.05 mm dia and drill a pilot hole in the other end part way through, press the boss into the body and solder the bits together.
These are the bits
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3979.jpg)
Bits prepped for soldering parts fluxed and a small nugget of solder put on the joint.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3982.jpg)
When you solder the bits together don't direct the flame on the job you'll just blow the nugget off sneak up on it with the heat when the flux will go white then black then it melts when it melts it will hold the nugget in place give it more direct heat untill you see the nugget melt and flow into the joint, pickle, then drill through the pilot hole into the body, thats it job done
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3988.jpg)
Now this shows the problem with the fitting in the boiler the door fowls them.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3994.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3995.jpg)
I arnt half glad I made the the fitting as anothe problem materialised, you can't fully screw the bits into the back head they clash with each other.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3998.jpg)
I'm going to make a new back head but I'll leave that till next week as I'm starting to get brassed off with it, and when that happens I make mistakes.
I may have said before that this was the last engine Curly designed before he passed away the drawing and ME article was finished off by Martin Evans and apparently the two didn't get on, the boiler fitttings are Martins designs they are obviously not what Curly intended, I wonder how many other builders have fallen at this hurdle.
Cheers
Stew
-
Over the last couple of days I've made the Turret or Manifold to none steam people.
But first to finish off the clacks, the balls need setting down to do this take a new 3/16 stainless ball bearing put it on the seating, and with a brass drift give it a sharp biff with a light hammer, throw the ball away as you've distorted it, replace it with a new one. Now make the cap first measure the depth to the ball and calculate the length of thread required to allow the ball to lift 1/32 ".
Here we are one done No two measured for the cap.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4056.jpg)
Now for the turret this is made from phos bronze I've bin using calphos which is a leaded bronze that machine very nicely. The body of the turret is made from a length of 3/8" dia material:- drill 1/8 27mm deep and drill and tap 3/16 * 40 ME 5mm deep the body uses a 1/8 steal ball valve for the whistle so the bottom of the 1/8 hole needs to be square and accurately depthed, so I made a flat bottom drill and set it to depth to the chuck face against a steel washer, and just kissed the bottom to bring it to the correct depth.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4021.jpg)
3/32 hole drilled right through the bottom for the plunger.
Keeping the job on the bar transfer to the mill in spin indexer, and drill the cross holes 3.5mm to locate the fitting for soldering.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4025.jpg)
Back onto the lathe part off to length flip it round and drill and tap the back end 3/16 * 40 ME
The fitting as there were 4 to make 1/4 * 40 turn up a length of bar enough to make all four and thread it with a die.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4032.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4033.jpg)
The turn up a 2mm long boss for a tight fit on 3.5mm hole drilled in the body part off
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4034.jpg)
repeat repeat repeat.
Then flip them round in a collet:- face centre drill and drill a 3mm hole part way through.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4041.jpg)
Turn up the other 5/16 fitting
Here they are assembled to the body.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4043.jpg)
And fluxed with a little nugget of silver solder waiting for some heat.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4046.jpg)
Again sneak up on it with the heat the flux will go white then black then it will melt more direct heat until the solder melts, pickle for 1/2 hr.
Then set up in the mill and with the aid of the 3mm pilot holes drill through into the body. If you stick a bit of wire down the hole you'll feel/see the drill start to tickle it when it breaks through.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4050.jpg)
Set the ball down on the seating as for the clacks.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4052.jpg)
Then make the whistle lever thing sorry this is the only pic I took.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4057.jpg)
And her we are turret finished.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4060.jpg)
With the bits made I can now see the best way to fit them on the back head, I think I'm going to black the bush up on the left next to the water gauge and move the boiler feed clack to the top right hand side.
Like this
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4063.jpg)
Cheers
Stew
-
You know PD's.......... :shhh...but I think that Potty & Bogs went to the same school for tech drawing :a102 .....
Yes...some of the latest sketches here have that same distinct dimensional hieroglyphics " \ ? # * /
Yes & appear to be en-scribed to ciggy papers too :nahnah .....Derek
-
Hi Derek
No we didn't go the same school but we were both shaken by the same steam hammers forging out loco axles at Crewe Engine works, :angel we did grow up in close proximity to each other but never met until 18 months ago.
Stew
PS. I've never smoked I only use ciggy paper for edge finding :)
-
Looking very good Stew, its taken me awhile to realise but i have also been following this on madmodder :bravo
-
Thanks Derek/Ian
Well I slowed things down a bit after the problem I had with the position of water gauge and clack bushes being 1/4" too high, I wanted to give the problem some thought before I jumped in. Just to recap I decided to hinge the door from the bottom, blank one of the bushes off and move one of the clacks to the side of the boiler, on Monday I opened up the hole for the fire door and drilled the holes for the 6 front stays, I was now in a position to solder the back head in the boiler but first I tried the fit of the longitudinal stays, they wouldn't fit they fouled on the fire box, the penny finally dropped the error wasn't with the drawing but with me.
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
I'd only gone and positioned the fire box 1/4" too high.
Nothing for it but to make a new backhead with the holes for the longitudinal stays 1/4 higher.
Here's the old backhead with the new one cut out ready for bashing round the former.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4084.jpg)
I spent Tuesday making the new backhead, sorry no pics
Today another master class from John soldering the back head into the boiler:- her we have it
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4085.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4088.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4092.jpg)
And the top boiler bushes for the turret and water gauge.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4086.jpg)
I'll take it along to the inspector this weekend for him to have one final look before I close everything up next week with the final soldering session, fingers crossed.
Stew
-
Got the last bit of soldering done this morning with John.
First up the foundation ring which is made from 1/4" square copper rod, just cut and file to fit, to stop the bits falling into the boiler when evering expands on heating we simply drilled 1/16 through the outside and into the ring and put some copper rivets into the holes, you don't hammer the rivets over just place them in so they act as pegs. Everything was given a short pickle and clean and a good fluxing and rods of solder placed over the joints with a double dose at the corners, and some flux on the solder, the fire box was filled with thermalite block to keep the heat on the foundation ring. I had a pic of this but deleted it by mistake :doh: . Then with two butane torches we applied the heat it took quite a while for it to get up to temperature then as the solder melted we added more solder to fill the joints, when it looked OK let everything cool a bit then a quench in water and a pickle, this is the results.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4164.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4167.jpg)
Next we did the two bushes on the side of the boiler for the feed clacks, sorry no pics.
And the last soldering job for the boiler was the boiler tube plate, similar procedure as before this is the set up before soldering, rings of solder arround the flue tubes and arround the outside of the plate.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4160.jpg)
Two torches again with more solder added as melting temerature was reached.
We had to reheat and resolder two of the flue tubes as the solder had failed to flow into the joint.
This is the final result.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4162.jpg)
Well hopfully that all the soldering done, I've got to make some blanking plugs and fit the longitudinal stays before I do a pressure test, that will be in a couple of weeks as I'm still waiting for a calibrated pressure gauge.
Fingers crossed for the pressure test.
Stew
-
As it will be a couple of weeks before I can pressure test for real I was bitting at the bit just to do a low pressure test.
Before I go on just a warning so that no one gets the wrong message:- DO NOT CONNECT A BOILER TO A COMPRESSOR IT IS VERY DANGEROUS.
Ok what I did was make a connector for a bicycle pump, immersed the boiler in water and with a few strokes of the pump just enough to raise the pressure by a few PSI to see if there were any leeks, the only leeks I had were from the screw plugs for the regulator and the longitudinal stays which are easily fixed, there was nothing from any of the soldered joints:- so far so good.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4173.jpg)
Stew
-
I've had this on hold for a few weeks, as I've been waiting to have some pressure gages checked out I'd acquired them over the years and was not sure if they were working OK and I didn't want to test the boiler with them not being sure if they worked. The guy who was going to check them let me down somewhat so last weekend I retrieved them.
After giving it some thought I thought the best thing to do was to make a manifold so that I could compare the gauges one with the others (I've four to choose from) that way a faulty gage would be eliminated by the other three.
I connected them to the boiler feed pump I made, like this looks a bit heath but it worked.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4305.jpg)
I couldn't get the gauges to tighten so that you could see both faces.
But this is what I got.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4306.jpg)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4307.jpg)
They were all different scales but I was able to detect that one gauge was reading 20 PSI light so that was dumped the other three were Ok and gave similar readings with each other.
Tomorrow will know be the big day:-I'll fix a couple of leeks i've got with the screw coupling on the regulator and one of the screwed longitudinal stays, then it will be fingers crossed.
This will be own test if all goes well I'll cut the end off the stays off and submit the boiler for official inspection.
Stew
-
Well I sort of tested the boiler yesterday, I took it up to 40psi there was a leek from the inside of the hollow blower stay, so I gave the nut a tweak, when ping the bloody thing broke.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4314.jpg)
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
So did a bit of investigating the drawing calls for 5/32*22g copper pipe I was supplied 3/16*22g pipe as part of the boiler kit which I turned the end down and threaded 5/32 * 40 which had the effect of thinning the wall of the tube down that and being one turn short to tighten the nuts down resulted in overloading and the break. So I've got to order some 5/32 pipe next week before I can conduct the test again. On the positive side as 40 psi there was no signs of any other leeks.
Stew
-
Well I tried the hollow stay twice more with the same result ping it broke, there is very little wall thickness left after the thread is cut, plan B, use a solid stay and run the blower around the outside of the boiler.
Today i took delivery of a solid stay, it didn't break but a I still had difficulty getting the threads to seal I tried ptfe tape but the joints just kept weeping, next try to seal them with copper slip.
I did get it up to 160 psi a couple of times and it held pressure long enough for me to check out all the soldered joints and they were all good, I'm now going to cut off the spikes and book the boiler in for a test with the inspector.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4388.jpg)
Happy Stew
-
Thanks Guys
I repeated the test this morning using copper slip to seal the threads it worked great.
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4389.jpg)
I then cut off the spikes and cleaned the boiler up with a brass wire brush.
Then I couldn't resist seeing how it looked between the frames
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4395.jpg)
Starting to look like a proper loco now.
Stew
-
Just wanted to post my thanks for this excellent series! I'm (March 2012) studying up on boiler-building as I'm working on a 3-1/2 ga. Baltimore & Ohio P7 Pacific, #5300 "President Washington" -- just arranging to buy barrel tube tomorrow. It was really helpful to see all the entire silver-soldering sequence in well-done photos, so clearly described. They have done wonders for helping me understand book-reading (Harris, ME backissues, Farmer) -Chris Morrison
(I got the castings from http://0187632.netsolhost.com/productsforsale/312gaugep7462.html (http://0187632.netsolhost.com/productsforsale/312gaugep7462.html))
-
Just so inspiring.
Best
David
-
Yes it is, I like steam locomotives also but am not ready to attempt building one myself... one day, who knows :D