Paddleducks
Other Marine Models => Live steam => Topic started by: neil howard-pritchard on January 03, 2010, 02:29:48 AM
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My cheddar puffin plant won't light.
I was finally brave enough to tighten all my unions up, put oil into the displacement lubricators ( proper cheddar stuff) and water into the boiler and aux tank.......I was planning to have a nice little steam with the engines...it's mounted at the mo on a board prior to putting in my model Imara
I turned the gas on at the tank and fired up the igniter........it lit straight away and started to burn inthe boiler .......I didn't realise( not very well up on steam) that the little red unit conected to the gas burner and the release valve to the engines was in fact the gas supply regulater......until I screwed the little nob down, and off the burner went.....a nice bright blue flame ........to begin with..........then it became more orange/yellow as the pressure was slowly building in the boiler, but the burn rate was slowing down.....sudenly the flame just cut out as though someone had turned a light switch off, and it failed to ignite again.
Now before anyone jumps to conclusions, a) the gass bottle is at least 6 ( six ) years old, possibly older as it was given to me six years ago when I bought the steam plant, but b) still has some in that bottle.
could it be that or some other thing entirely.
The plant is a Cheddar maxi boiler and two cheddar puffin engines. The plant was put together by a consumate steam modeller but never steamed and is about 15 years old.
What have I done to cock this lovely little plant up please.
Thanks in anticipation, Neil.
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I saw a similar problem with one of our "steam guys" at my local club, and it was a problem caused by old gas.... Replacing it with some new stuff cured it completely.
An explanation was given, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was!!
Regards
Eddy
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Hi,
It could well be the gas has 'gone off'
I know our power boats suffer if the petrol has been left to long even in a sealed container.
Other thing i thought of based on my Scouting days - could it be the injectors needing cleaned?
I know we use to have a little tool for cleaning the injectors on our primus stoves .. do gas burners suffer the same thing??
Only thoughts if it helps.
Regards
Kim
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thanks for the replies guys.........as I said the gas bottle is at least 6 years old. I left it a while and then re ignited it and it did exactly the same..burned as it should then went a yellow flame and then just popped out.....so will change the bottle. as for injecter's Kim...|I must sound flipant but I haven't a clue I'm sorry.new to steam except the old mamod's and this is a big learning curve. I'll now have tom find a camping shop to get hold of a new gas bottle, and then will relate back to how it gows. cheers, neil.
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Neil
It could be that the cylinder is cooling a lot. When the gas went out did it feel cold to the touch? When the liquid gas evaporates it cools considerably, and that plant has a fairly large boiler to run the two engines and needs a lot of gas.
You should try to apply some warmth to the can. But keep it well below 50 degrees - violent things can happen then!
Malcolm
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HI Malclm....no, the gas cylinder never altered temperature at all.......have been reading your piece on another forum and was waiting for that to happen, but it didn't alter in temp at all.........i'll phone Stuart on Guernsey on monday, and in the meantime try finding a new gas cannister....see what happens then, but thanks for the reply. neil.
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Hi Neil,
no problem when i say injector I'm probably getting the term wrong. I'd imagine it's a jet.
One of the reasons i suggested it is i seem to remember my Dad pinching the tool from me to clear one of his steam engines, now whether it was to do with the jets or something completely different i can't remember to be honest.
As for learning about steam I'm on a similar path as a friend is building a part built Roundhouse engine for me so better get learning myself.
Regards
Kim
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cheers, kim..........if i think what you are thinking, i called the tool a pricker........for cleaning the jets on a primus stove.got some with my primus.....will have a look in the morning. neil.
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The jet on my burner gets plugged every once in a while and I need to clear it. I ether use a very fine wire or blow air through it backwards.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Thanks lads...........I have had a thought though.(??strange for me)
In April I am going to be hand delivering the Flying Christine 3 that I am doing a build log on the tug boat forum, to her new owners in Guernsey.
As the engines are a direct derivitive of the original that Stuart Models of Guernsey made, and now make after the sad demise of Cheddar models, I am going to phone them tomorrow and ask if they can either sort it over the phone, or whether I can post the plant to them and get it running nicely for me, and I can then pick it up from them in April..........for me that is a brilliant idea.lol
I don't have many of them.
cheers, neil.
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Neil,
before going to the trouble of sending the plant to Guernsey, have you tried a new can of gas?
I would hazard a guess that it is either the age of the gas, or the adjustment of the GAV (Gas Attenuator Valve). If it turns out to be the GAV, I have a copy of the instructions that I could e-mail to you. PM me if you would like them.
Neil
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By all means phone Stuarts Neil - but I think that you will find that as yet they are only offering minimal support for a small part of the Cheddar range. I'm afraid you really do need to 'do it yourself!' ;D
Stuart
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cheers stuart, and thanks neil.
i tried a new can of gas, but this time it was blowing back constantly and flames were licking out of the chamber, so i think i'll give stuart a chance to fix it............nothing to lose really, and everything to gain,
and i'm a modeller really, not a steam engineer.
as for taking it along to a local club........they are so cliquey at the nearest club to me that the last time i took the plant down to them, the chairman told me thatdue to HSE no one would offer me any advise unless i paid 30 sobs to join ther club and be covered by club insurance for the advice given, and even joining wasn't rutine as i would have to go before a committee to tell them what i could offer the club, before my membership went to committee.lol
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Hi PDs'.......Neil [HP] .....it is sounding more like the gas regulator is suspect....most types have a small neoprene diaphragm , but these usually function in reducing gas pressure as the water/steam pressure rises & pilots the regulator etc......
Can you remove the regulator from the gas circuit for a trail? .....send a photograph........could be as simple as substituting a union body :hammer to the existing connections .....Derek
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thanks for that info Derek.
i phoned Stuart models this morning and the gent there told me about that gas regulator valve, and how easy it was to upset the balance on it.....well..i have to admit i was screwing the little screw up and down the other day as though my life depended on it, so have probably cocked it up well and truly, but he has a colegue in mainland uk and says he will have a look at it.
however a friend of mine has an aquaintance who has shown an interest in buying the plant, and the model it goes into as one........am just waitng for an offer.......
hopefully then back to electric for me, lol
but thanks for the help from all you chaps, much appreciated.
neil.
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eureeeeeeekaaa!!!....finally got my boiler up to steam, the smoke came out the right hole, the steam came out the right places and the safety valve blew at 40 psi.........so it's into the boat it goes, lol
After farting around with it for months I finally used what little intelligence I have and contacted a man from the Cheddar Steam Club.It turned out that he used to build them at the factory..pointed me out on a few placers and I fired it up this morning........brilliant.
One of the problems that I have had was caused by the GAV (gas attenuator valve) which on the early set ups was very temperamental to adjust and me of little patience when something that I know nowt about, goes wrong couldn't get to grips with it.In the end he recommended me to remove it, and just run the gas straight to the burner.
Anyway...I am now going to fit it into the tug and hopefully my next challenge will be to video it and post it somewhere.
Now that will be an even bigger triumph, lol
might even get it down the lake next week sometime.