Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Paddlewheels/Drive Systems => Topic started by: Philip on December 25, 2009, 10:58:41 AM
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Merry Christmas,
I'm building a small sternwheeler and need some help. I need help finding a drive chain for a 1/48th scale paddlewheeler. I just finished the wheels and need to figure out how to set the model in motion. Actually it will be non-operational but I want it to look convincing. Does anyone have a link to a seller of chain besides the delrin chain from grandtline?
thanks, Philip
(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/gallery/3/1862-251209002455.jpeg)
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Hi PD's ....& welcome Philip - here is a link for stainless steel miniature roller chain & pinions but it is horrendously expensive ....[the smallest is 3.747 mm pitch which equates to 95 mm or approx 4" pitch which is totally realistic @ 1:24 scale]......I am not aware of any 1:48 scale roller chain
http://www.smallparts.com.au/
<<<<<<< look to the left & you will see my example of the same 3.747 mm pitch chain
With your model being static......you could consider modeling a more traditional twin cylinder steam engine & eccentric push rod approach........
Keep us posted with .jpgs as you progress..........there are many members world wide @ PD's who will be more than happy to offer comment & assistance as required.......Derek :beer.....
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Thanks Derek,
I joined another forum and asked the same question a month ago. No one said anything, can't remember where it was ..they were ship builders for the old sailing pirate vessels ::) arrg? Walk the plank. Not exactly a warm welcome over there....
:D Glad I found this forum, lots of information here for the research..even on Christmas eve, family coming in tomorrow. I'll dig up the links to the grandt line chain and there was another site that deals with the bulk delrin chain at a more reasonable price than the Grandt Line plastic. The link you provided ..is that 6 $ per link? :o
Philip
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Hi PD's.......Philip asks.... "is that 6 $ per link?"....no Philip not quite that bad :nono ..
A quick view of the attachment will confirm 412 mm of chain was AUD$133.66 ...so that rounds out to $0.33 cents per mm or $1.22 per pitch....[remember a single pitch in roller chain is between one roller axis to the next roller axis]
Then the chain is only 1/2 the cost ..... :sobbing...as when I add two chain pinions....the cost is >>>>>$350.00 - Derek :coffee
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:D Glad I found this forum, lots of information here for the research..even on Christmas eve
It is a great site i have learned loads since joining .... as for Christmas eve .....
Its 3 am here and I'm still hard at work drawing my next project ..... some might say I'm just slow and need to use a lot more of my 168 hours a week .... others (wife included ) just think I'm nuts :)
Still no sign of Santa ....
Welcome along anyway
P.s.If its of any use, have you looked at Meccano chain?
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Blimey Derek, that's some price and i like the note at the bottom of the page .... Buyer is responsible for insurance etc....
Anyway coffee done back to the drawing board.
Regards,
Kim
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Talisman says ........."3 am here and I'm still hard at work drawing my next project" ...Kim you know that Santa will not turn up if you are awake :nahnah
My best regards to all PD's still posting on this 25/12/2009 :vacation ....Derek
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Derek,
I wonder if santa sleigh is chain drive? maybe santa has some freebies extra master links. I could see spending that on a machine like your avatar, but this is just a nonfunctioning wood and plastic model. I checked the maccano chain also. Any others..wonder if there are any etched brass chains. If push comes to shove I'll scratch build the links, sprockets and jackshaft. I'll be 100years old when finished. :shoot I f still no luck 'll change it to a pitman arm and quit stressing on this chain dilemma.
thanks again..what a great forum!
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you need this type of chain, but longer :D
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/PopularScience/9-1950/med_bike_gears.jpg
don't know how you'd get sprockets for it though!
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This is the miniature chain and sprockets I use for the drive on all my models.
This page is the access for the index of parts listing;
http://www.sdp-si.com/web/html/drivesystems.htm
and this page is the company; http://www.sdp-si.com/
the products are handled in the UK by; http://www.davall.co.uk/
They all do mail order and are very helpful on the phone. There is NOTHING these people don't do in terms of gears, couplings and drives.
Hope this helps
Stuart
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Check out the Meccano guys, I did see a website once where the fellow made his own chain and sprockets. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark it.
Regards,
Gerald
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I have only ever used Meccano chain and sprockets and have never had any problems.
Meccano is still available to buy, but unfortuately I can't find the address
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Hi again,
Thanks for all the links and help trying to locate chain/sprockets. Here is what I"m trying to build. This photo was the only known photo. I assumed it was pitman type drive with a horizontal engine.
(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/gallery/3/1862-271209015558.jpeg)
Then this picture surfaced two days ago showing a chain drive system. ???
(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/gallery/3/1862-271209015039.jpeg)
I'm bulding this 1/48th scale. The prototype was 40 feet long and 16 feet wide. A very small craft. I'm afraid the drive chain will look overscale (with what is available so I may just pretend the second photo never surfaced. I apologise for my american non metric measurement. I also used your photo section to show my pictures. If I'm in violation of forum rules I'll remove the photos from the gallery.
Thanks you kindly,
Philip
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Phillip - have you looked at the link I posted? That chain would give at full size in 1/48 scale a link of about 5 inches - surely not overscale!
Stuart
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Stuart,
I have looked at the page.
https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=5205&GroupID=447
Looks like a match. I'm having trouble finding the correct sprocket, the pitch doesn't seem to match .1227
I really like the spoked sprockets! Prefer spoked more than the solid ones. I'll research more..seems the pitch would have to match perfectly or can it have some chain slop tolerance? I'm new to gearing miniature machines any pictures of your drive would be appreciated.
thanks for finding that link! :)
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Hi PD's....but :nono ........ I think the batteries are FLAT in your abacus :whistle
0.1227" x 25.4 = 3.11 mm pitch
3.11 x 48 scale = approx 150 mm pitch [149.599 actual]
149.599 divide by 25.4 = 5.8896" pitch
Now speaking as an ex - Renold Australia Power Transmission Engineers [trainee engineer].....low speed 'crank link' chain was manufactured in 6" pitch but this was for LOW speed earth moving type appliances or ball mills etc...... not for 25 to 100 RPM applications
Conventional roller chain as developed by the French Mr Renold was limited to 4" pitch or shall we say 100 mm
So I see the use of this 0.1227" pitch chain is about 47% over scale size....fine to use but just need to understand the actuals........Derek
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Greetings,
I don't know if you have found your chain yet but here is a site that I get a lot of chain drive parts from. I have used the plastic chain on several O scale (1/48th) logging locomotives and it looked great and operated well. I have also used it to drive the throttle of several live steam locomotives. You can get sprockets in all kind of sizes.
http://www.servocity.com/html/gears___sprockets.html
I hope this helps,
Andre
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Some may think I"m nitpicking here but the drive chain will be exposed for inspection. If it is to large it will look out of scale. I know the proposed smallest chain is 98 links per foot. I'll draw a mock of the chain in auto cad and determine if it looks out of scale. Thanks for the mathematics lesson Derek!
Derek,
this is just a nonfunctioning wood and plastic model.
Thanks Andre. I'll most likely use that chain.
I also have a question about hull design. Is the hull suppose to be tapered at the stern on the bottom of the vessel to aid in water flow to the paddle. The boat pictured seems to be square just before the paddle. I presume its tapered below water level. Is that squared end the rudder? Is the rudder suppose to lead the or trail the paddle?
Thanks again for all the comments.
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If it is to be a static model and not operational, you might be able to find something in cosmetic jewelery.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Hi Phillip
Before you get to wrapped up in whether the chain is EXACTLY to scale consider this; If you construct a model to EXACT scale it will look somehow 'wrong'. A good example is model cars - you know the sort of Burano quality diecast things. If you measure for instance the size of a door piller it will be about twice the thickness it should be. This is not because of manufacturing limitations, it is because if the pillers were the 'right' size our brains simply will not accept that they are capable of holding up the roof of the car - this is known as 'scale effect'.
As Derek rightly says the chain I've suggested is slightly overscale - but it may very well look right on the model.
Anyway here's a picture of some components laid out on a centimetre grid to give you an idea,
All the best
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
Your chain and sprocket picture are worth a thousand words. I'm not looking for an exact replica. My cad drawing was 16' breadth and my model is 17' 1/4". Slightly larger, but I can live with it.
I'll be placing an order Monday morning.
thanks,
Philip