Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: Talisman on November 20, 2009, 10:56:58 PM
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Hi,
This morning i had a brain wave at 3am so don't shoot me if the idea looks a Little ruff at the edges at the moment.
What about these windows (not to scale or accurate at the moment)
I'm pretty confident i can have these made in the quantities required for your Waverley at about the same cost as a pot of clearcast resin and with a higher degree of accuracy than a moulded window.
The idea -
Window has a flange around the outside with small holes at each of the corners to allow glue (epoxy probably best) to penetrate through to form a kind of glue rivet - I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.
Flanges on the inside of the window could be bent towards the outside of the hull to give clean lines to the side of the hull opening. With a material thickness of 0.4mm a thick coat of paint should fill the areas that the flanges don't mask.
I have made a ruff mock up in paper for your thoughts.
Sorry for hijacking your thread a little.
Regards
Kim
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Hi Mercury
Windows & port cut-outs look perfect, bet you're glad that job is done!!
Hi Kim,
Re the windows a few questions
What would the frames be made of, and what would they be glazed with (after fitting to the hull)?
Assuming the outside flange is glued to the inside of the fibreglass hull, and taking into account the thickness of the fibreglass, (which can vary slightly along the hull), would the frame not be set "back" too far, as these windows were nearly flush with the outside of the hull on the real ships?
I'm getting near hull"window" stage on my model, and I haven't given them much thought yet!
PS sorry if I'm being really thick here, about the way your windows/frames fit to the hull!
regards
Clark
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Hi All,
I have split this topic from Mercury's Waverley thread to allow a bit of working out / ideas to be bashed out or alternatives to be suggested -
Q. - What would the frames be made of, and what would they be glazed with (after fitting to the hull)?
A. - I am thinking of metal and glazing with OHP transparency which with a bit of fancy printing would maybe allow curtain detail?
Looking at the pics bellow you can make out the window construction detail which i think i can reproduce on my windows (providing my drawing skills are up to it)
Q. - Assuming the outside flange is glued to the inside of the fibreglass hull, and taking into account the thickness of the fibreglass, (which can vary slightly along the hull), would the frame not be set "back" too far, as these windows were nearly flush with the outside of the hull on the real ships?
A. - Working on assumptions based on the 2 pics attached here are my suggestions -
Window will be recessed by 1/16th or 1.58mm real word size 3inch - hull can be padded out or sanded down to these thicknesses without to much trouble I'd imagine?
Gaps / breaks in the recess flange could be filled with modelling filler without to much hassle?
Q. - I'm getting near hull"window" stage on my model, and I haven't given them much thought yet!
A.- I have never given as much thought to windows either other than cursing them :)
Q. - PS sorry if I'm being really thick here, about the way your windows/frames fit to the hull!
A. - Thanks for the input Clark you have given me another project :)
regards
Clark
Alternatively -
Should i just make it easy and produce a 2d window and keep it simple?
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Alternatively -
Should i just make it easy and produce a 2d window and keep it simple?
2D may be the best idea, Kim,...as you say keep it simple
Thinking about it, a awkward part of the process could be-
1 glueing the glazing to the frame without making a mess...or what type of adhesive would be best?
2 glueing a 2D frame securely to the hull...I have been trying to come up with an idea for this (no luck yet!!). The trouble with windows is they are see-through and any mess is visible :D
Never noticed Waverley's dining saloon windows only have 2 sections on the upper opening part now, instead of 3 sections
Clark
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2D may be the best idea, Kim,...as you say keep it simple
Thinking about it, a awkward part of the process could be-
1 glueing the glazing to the frame without making a mess...or what type of adhesive would be best?
2 glueing a 2D frame securely to the hull...I have been trying to come up with an idea for this (no luck yet!!). The trouble with windows is they are see-through and any mess is visible :D
Never noticed Waverley's dining saloon windows only have 2 sections on the upper opening part now, instead of 3 sections
Clark
Clark,
the more i think about it the more I'm thinking that 2d might be a better way to go, hell I've been happy with less sophisticated windows before now.
As for glue i can recommend 540 Canopy glue it is the strongest and clearest i have come across. Ideal for gluing ohp transparency.
My reason for putting small holes in the corners of the internal flange was to allow epoxy to seep through. When it cures you would have a kind of glue rivet if you like. Epoxy is probably the strongest bond i can think of for gluing onto fiberglass and the little glue rivets should be strong enough to hold and would form a waterproof 'gasket' around the window frame.
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Hmm - interesting ideas here. I have seen printed acetate windows and they do work well. My concern is ensuring the hull is watertight - the pond in Aberdeen can be fairly rough at times. (Why am I building a paddler then - I know....) I had though of getting etched brass frames made up, pre-painting them and then setting this into the Clearcast as it sets.
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Thinking about this, I really like the "flange" idea with glue "rivet" fixing, as Kim suggested.
On my rough scribble, the outside flanges with glue holes would be bent 90 degrees toward the inside of the hull, to allow glueing against the edge of the opening in the hull side.
This may allow the frame to be as flush as you want....with glazing material at the back.
Problem is getting neat crisp 90 degree bends though.
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If you made a little jig you could always glue them up using plastruct 'L' section.
Stuart
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Stuart - you always give us much more credit for competancy and patience then we deserve! ;D
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I like it Clark!
Since joining this forum my theoretical modelling skills have increased massively, Practical skills not moving forward just as quick but getting there slowly :)
It is great when you have the likes of Stuart and others willing to help and a mass of knowledge to tap into just next to the work bench.
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Hi,
Is there any chance you guys could give me some sizes for the following measurements? (1:48 scale)
Bow windows -
B-1 = ?
B-2 =?
Stern Windows
B-1 = ?
B-2 = ?
I have a batch of stuff going for cutting in the morning and i could squeeze a window in. We could have a play with the design when it comes back ?
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Kim,
I had a look and I don't have any Waverley plans, I think they were wrecked after my build several years ago & they got binned, and my model is in storage at the moment, so I cant get any sizes tonight unfortunately
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No problem Clark, i have looked at a set of plans for the Marchioness of Lorne and come up with the following measurements. Probably be near as dam it and suffice for a play with the design.
Stern (with three pains in the top section)
B1 = 20mm
B2 = 16mm
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Hi All,
First effort and i am pretty happy with the accuracy and detail.
Cut in 0.4mm brass.
Any thoughts?
Regards,
Kim
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Hi All,
First effort and i am pretty happy with the accuracy and detail.
Cut in 0.4mm brass.
Any thoughts?
Regards,
Kim
Hi Kim,
As you say, the accuracy/detail is very good, flanges may need a slight trim if they are 2D frames...these windows were quite close together on most of the paddlers...but that wouldn't be a problem
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Hi All,
A question -
Does anybody have any tips on making brass look like wood. I have tried wood stain only problem is every time i apply a new coat it lifts the previous coat.
Many thanks,
Kim
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Kim,
I can't really think of any method to simulate wood on a brass frame. But what about getting them laser cut from thin ply?
I would imagine they would be cheaper to produce, and purchasers could then stain/paint them to give any desired finish....
Regards
Eddy
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Hi PD's ......Talisman....brass being a 'noble' metal will tarnish.........with age & oxidation.....a solution of nitric acid 25% WW will promote darkening but not simulate wood :whistle..... Derek
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One method you can try is to glue the frame face down onto a good cartrige paper (a SPRAY contact adhesive used according to the instructions regarding tack time or very thin superglue is fine.) Trim the paper around the frame using a scalpal (you will be amazed at how easy it is to get a crisp, sharp edge just by running the blade around the frame (always use a NEW blade). Then use stain or watercolour paint to get the finish you want on the paper and finally varnish. This is a standard technique used in the architectural model making business.
Hope this helps
stuart
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Stuarts posting (above) made me wonder, would it be possible to scale a photograph of the REAL window, and then use that as the paper covering for the brass frame?
I doubt you could get more realistic than a perfect scale replica of the real thing!
Regards
Eddy