Paddleducks
Paddler Information => Preserved Paddle Ships => Topic started by: PaddleWheel on October 04, 2009, 07:26:30 AM
-
Well it appears that Lincoln Castle is for sale for the measly sum of £20,000, being sold by agents Appolo Duck (http://commercial.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=124525). However, removing her from her current location will be expensive, as there is a narrow dock entrance and low road bridge. Anyone got anymore news?
-
First I'd heard of that, if I won the lottery I'd buy it ;D (no doubt that's why I'll never be rich!)
-
In the 2009 autumn issue of PSPS ’ ‘Paddle Wheels’ Myra Alan (Chairman) reports as under:
PS Lincoln Castle
I am delighted to report that we have commenced discussions with the owner of the former Humber Ferry PS Lincoln Castle, with a view to securing a long term future for her. You may be aware that she has not been open as a pub and restaurant for some time. She remains in Grimsby for the time being. I hope to be able to report more in the near futureun quote.
Let’s hope more will come of this, than when the Ryde was given the same possibly, by the PSPS, bearing in mind the tight economic situation of today, which can only get worse than better in the coming years
Len Knight MQPS.
-
Oh dear....Leisure Steam (PS Monarch) might be interested. Investigations continue (and that's all I will say on the matter)........................
-
Oh dear....Leisure Steam (PS Monarch) might be interested. Investigations continue (and that's all I will say on the matter)........................
Oh dear. I somehow don't think it'll fit in Little London.... ::) :P
;D
-
Strangley not....but we have other plans my dear friend...
Let's see how the next couple of weeks pan out
-
Shame about the bridges blocking her escape from the current mooring!
-
Nothing is insurmountable!!
-
Tattershall Castle has been removed from the mooring at embankment a couple of times, with the mast and funnel removed it's possible to get under the bridges (in London that is, I haven't seen where Lincoln Castle is now) mind you, I think the funnel is a bit shorter each time they reassemble it...
-
According to Google Earth, there is a lifting bridge(maybe?) directly in front of her, with the A180 a bit further on....
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.570411,-0.082719&spn=0.00068,0.002411&t=h&z=19 (http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.570411,-0.082719&spn=0.00068,0.002411&t=h&z=19)
-
The swing bridge aint swung in years so I am told and the A road bridge doesn't swing, the pillars and dolphins for this bridge are also pretty narrow . . .
-
The boat could only move with my little friend "thermic lance"-triffic bloke!
-
Hi PD's.......Monarch....is your "thermic lance"-...the same as our OZ "red spanner" ...courtesy of a combined bottle set of O2 + acetylene :crash.....if so .... :whistle :hehe....we must assume cropping the funnel to navigate [pass under] the bridges................Derek ::)
-
....and the sponsons!
-
Removal of these items is not entirely unheard of....
-
Very true . . . she would certainly be esier than getting another ex railway paddler out of her predicament!
Keep us updated Matt . . . I have a few contacts up that way ;-)
-
Now now Christopher, you don't want to get all moderated!!
But, yeah, much better proposition...it floats, the engines are complete and there is only about 700 grands worth of work to get it running on diesel hydraulic whilst it pays for it's own boilers. I'm already thinking about a couple of nice Cochrane jobbies....there's a goovy quadruple pass design that's going at the mo!!
Matt
-
Hmm, I think you'd be taking on a huge liability, not an asset....
-
One word......Ryde!!
-
Right then, it seems that we have enough pocket money to get the old bird and moor it for a few years. Difficulty comes with with reboilering and refitting the ship although I think funding for this could be quite easily got at and would make her wash her face finanically.
Our plan is to run the boat on diesel hydraulic and let the boat pay for her own boilers etc and let the hospitality space out as concessions...any thoughts?
NB: Still at the dreaming stage atm, but been there before with several other projects that have taken shape and been successful so far!!
-
...any thoughts?
Sound ambitious. Have you even thought about stuff like what sort of state the hull's in? Dry docking?
-
Got survey done, dry docking essential, replating essential.... and that's it structurally.
-
From what I am aware of LC, when her sponsons were replaced after being cut into 3 parts and removed to slide her under the bridge in the first place, they were near enough just bolted back on in those 3 parts, so apart from removing an amount of panelling internally, I would imagine this is not as serious a job as it looks.
With regards to the plating, I would imagine its likely it would have originally been 1/4 inch at the most (not seen the plans, so cant confirm), so now I would guess there is probably only 3-4mm left in places plus I expect an amount of ferrocreting keeping the water out, so as Matt says, certainly some replating is going to be needed to done, and I would imagine the ultrasonics would show its more a case that very little will be left!!
I would guess anyone serious in buying her is looking at a couple of hundred thousand to put her back into a condition where she could be used as a static pub. With regards to getting her back passenger carrying, it will be a big, but very worthwhile task.
Although I have not been to see her (although might do on a rainy day soon!), Lincoln Castle is reported to be in a fairly intact state, so it is very important that she goes to a good home, which should leave us all thankful to her current owners for putting a token price on her, to hopefully ensure that this happens. I believe I heard a whisper that the PSPS were in talks, guess we will wait and see.
-
As I understand it, the Humber ferries were quite heavily built compared to the average pleasure steamer. They were designed to run in all weather and withstand frequent groundings on the shifting sandbars in the Humber estuary. I don't recall the specs off the top of my head, but hull plating thicker than 1/4" seems pretty likely on these boats. Though having said that, the Linc was a war baby, so she may have been built lighter than her older near-sisters.
-
Lincoln Castle was built to the same basic design as PS Wingfield Castle which is preserved at Hartlepool, though built several years after the Wingfield.
About 3 years ago Wingfield castle was drydocked for hull inspection and it was found to be in remarkably good condition requiring omly minor repair and a repaints. She has been repainted and an ongoing process of refitting is in place and is open to the public. A cafe on board is a good little earner and atracts a lot of visitors. The engines are intact and will turn over by electric drive. Her boiler room is intact though the boilers are shot. So, as the Lincoln castle is a younger ship there is plenty of hope for her, so lets be optimistic and give her every support. Regards, Walter.
-
Totally agree with Walter, the long and the short of it is she needs everyones support.
Have just caught site of a survey done on her (2006), and pretty much like I suspected though, plating ranging 3.6mm-6.5mm thick, originally 3/16" and 1/4" inch thick, pin holing in plates allowing ingress of water which have been repaired by ferrocreting. So the hull is certainly in need of attention.
As Len has pointed out though:-
In the 2009 autumn issue of PSPS ’ ‘Paddle Wheels’ Myra Alan (Chairman) reports as under:
PS Lincoln Castle
I am delighted to report that we have commenced discussions with the owner of the former Humber Ferry PS Lincoln Castle, with a view to securing a long term future for her. You may be aware that she has not been open as a pub and restaurant for some time. She remains in Grimsby for the time being. I hope to be able to report more in the near future
I believe there is movement on the PSPS front too, so lets hope so as it would be good to see her under their watchful eye.
-
I believe there is movement on the PSPS front too, so lets hope so as it would be good to see her under their watchful eye.
There is indeed, I'm going to try to get some more information out of someone...
-
As the Lincoln Castle, was built in war time years, it is more than likely that the steel used left a lot to be desired. At one period our loses with shipping was more than we could replace at the time (U-Boats) Ships were built to fill the gap, not to last, as most were to be lost within the year of launch anyway. Hence not much emphasis was put on to quality, as opposed to quantity.
This was borne out by the rebuild of the Medway Queen’s aft section (1947) after the war; as this part was remove when used as a minesweeper. Having taken her over in 1985 at Chatham, it was notice how this section had deteriorated compared to the rest, and continued to do more so. I am not talking about workmen ship; they can only work with the materials available.
All this is fact not fiction, if the Lincoln Castle was built at beginning of the war may have escaped this period, if not may be in a worse state than one may think (hull wise) lets hope not. Only dry docking will show this possibility.
Len Knight.
-
The book 'Paddle Steamers In Camera' by Allan T Condie, says about Lincoln Castle...
...a third vessel joined the two 1934 sisters (wingfield & tattershall castles) in 1940, but built by Inglis of Pointhouse. She was more conventional in layout with the funnel forward of the paddles and was engined by the Ailsa Co of Troon. She outlasted the other pair on account of her being somewhat lighter in build and less powerful, being unsuitable for winter or cruising work and spending much time at the layup berth....
I have no idea how accurate (or otherwise) this all as but assume he has researched the subject pretty thoroughly...
-
Well, have been to see her, and yes, both plating and framework is very lightly built compared to others I have seen!! Most of the struture looked in quite good condition, but as for everything below the waterline, its very debateable. I think in all honesty it more than just replating that needs doing.
However, it should be and needs to be saved, so perhaps a more sensible option is to remain as a static exibit until it has earned some of the money to help itself.
I very much see a 'Maid of the Loch' scenario here.
As we know, a decent sonic survey runs on around the £15k mark now, so there is a lot of money needing spending even to continue as a static business.
With regards to moving her, the lifting bridge (The Corporation Road Bridge) was refurbished in 2000, and according to Fairfields documents (Fairfields being the company involved in the refurb), it is a legal requirement to be able to lift the bridge to let traffic through (In fact it was last lifted on the 21/9/2009 for routine maintainance). However, the bridge is narrow, so as we discussed, funnel, top of the bridge, masts, and sponsons would need removing. Once this is done, not only would she get through the lifting bridge, she would also get under the A180 road bridge. I cant imagine any of this going ahead though without wrecking insurance on the vessel, and getting that in her current condition, would certainly be a trick!!
I will sort out some photos, and post them up later.
I know that the PSPS are working on something though, so lets hope we hear from them soon.
-
I had a look at the old lady a couple of days ago. She is still beached as before bit appears no worse than she did a few weeks ago. Some attempts may have been made at preservation, as opposed to restoration.
The road bridge is quite an interesting bit of engineering in itself. There is a lifting section and it seems that the bascule lifts and also traverses.
This section is quite narrow but it abuts a much wider section which appears removable but has no machinery fitted to move it.
-
I see that Google have pretty much 'streetview'ed the whole of the UK now!!
So now you can enjoy a walk around Lincoln Castle (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=53.570798,-0.083878&num=1&t=h&sll=53.576939,-0.08595&sspn=0.025289,0.023678&ie=UTF8&ll=53.570785,-0.083213&spn=0,359.980752&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.570771,-0.083041&panoid=IMamuPeoXTXXIqQCWj3HOg&cbp=12,214.1,,0,3.62)!!
-
Also, I just noticed I never added the pictures I took of LC back in October.
http://s1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/e-trotters/Lincoln%20Castle/
-
...the pictures I took of LC back in October.
http://s1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/e-trotters/Lincoln%20Castle/
Doesn't look bad at all! Those pictures reminded me of seeing Tattershall Castle for the first time in London, especially the main bar, it's almost identical!
I only wish digital cameras had been invented back then....
-
...the pictures I took of LC back in October.
http://s1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/e-trotters/Lincoln%20Castle/
Doesn't look bad at all! Those pictures reminded me of seeing Tattershall Castle for the first time in London, especially the main bar, it's almost identical!
I only wish digital cameras had been invented back then....
Thanks for sharing the pictures, looks to be in fair condition.
-
Has everyone heard of this latest development?..........
...'PS Lincoln Castle, currently out of operation as a pub in Grimsby has been offered to the UK's Paddle Steamer Preservation Society at no charge....'
read the full story here - http://paddlesteamers.awardspace.com/LincolnCastle.htm
-
Extremely interesting Mick..... My only concern is that the PSPS seem to be dipping their fingers into an awful lot of pies at the moment, so I hope things are thought through carefully. I'd hate to see them overstretch themselves!
Regards
Eddy
-
.... I'd hate to see them overstretch themselves!...
Me too, the story is in Paddle Wheels too (just got mine, it's where I first read about it) it does say that it would be set up as a completely independent venture - so if it all went belly up, any liabilities end with Lincoln Castle and won't affect the societies other concerns.
Awaiting results of a survey at the moment to see what it would cost to repair the hull (it says there are a couple of minor holes that were repaired by pouring concrete into the hull) but to me it sounds like it could theoretically be worth a shot...
-
Extremely interesting Mick..... My only concern is that the PSPS seem to be dipping their fingers into an awful lot of pies at the moment, so I hope things are thought through carefully. I'd hate to see them overstretch themselves!
Regards
Eddy
It stated in PW that she was a viable business prior to being laid up. Perhaps she could generate income!!
I'm in the PSPS because I want to see paddlers preserved, this sort of project is exactly what they should be doing . . . . now about Compton Castle . . . . ;-)
-
I just wish we could have had her!! She MUST get back into operation....it's so close!!
-
The Lincoln Castle is now being dismantled and will be scrapedThe Lincoln Castle Preservation Society was set up two weeks ago to buy it ,repair it and bring it back into steaming again on the River Humber from Hull.We have had a lot of support from many sourses,but found out today that the owner has agreed with the North East Lincolnshire Council in Grimsby that it will be scraped.Workmen are now onboard ripping out the interior.We have tried to stop that,but to no avail as yet.Please use any contacts you have to try and save it before it is too late.Louise Long 01472324668 at that council is the person to contact.Any offer of financial support must be made known to that council or our society Or contact us at lincolncastlepreservationsociety@hotmail.co.uk
We need any help you can give us,or your protest in any way you can.by contacting that council in Grimsby.We were to hold a meeting on saturday to get members and raise the money needed,but that may be too late
It is in the process of being broken up and we all must try to save the last stream fired paddle steamer in Britain.The engines still turn are in a good condition.Use your contacts.Use the press.It could and must be saved.
-
We wish you the best of luck with your endeavour, but please bear in mind that the UK cannot afford another struggling paddle steamer...cost out the project carefully and let your heads rule your hearts. If we can be of any help, do contact us and we will do anything that we can.
Matt
-
It amazes me how other countries can make these things work, and yet the UK fails miserably.
It doesn't help that certainly from my experience there are plenty of people willing to tell you how you will fail, rather than take the gamble of supporting you! Its the easy option to tell people they will fail when the chances are slim!
Can you confirm what sort of money it is you need to find to stop this?
Last I heard was a £60k bond for the Council & the £20k asking price. Would this still stop demolition?
I think really the the MQPS have to be the inspiration for these projects!
Good luck.
-
Last I'd heard on this was when the PSPS asked all members if they'd support taking over the running of Lincoln Castle (as a bar/restaurant - not to restore to operation at this time) and how much members would be willing to contribute, either as a 'one-off' donation or on a regular basis...... can only assume the idea wasn't very popular then :(
-
can only assume the idea wasn't very popular then :(
[/quote]
It was popular, just nobody was willing to put any money foward.
The page for LC on Tramscape is being regularly updated of what's going on.
http://paddlesteamers.awardspace.com/LincolnCastle.htm
Jack.
-
Press release by the PSPS
24th May, 2010
“The council of management of the Paddle Steamer Preservation Society held a meeting in London on Saturday to discuss the present plight of the Humber paddle steamer Lincoln Castle and to investigate whether the society was in a position to help out with saving the paddle steamer from rumoured demolition. After much discussion the council agreed that the society was unable to accept the generous offer by Mr.Johnson to take ownership of the vessel because of a number of concerns which had been discovered from a survey which had been undertaken by a marine surveyor.
As a charitable concern the PSPS has to consider carefully at all times how society funds are spent and it was felt that it was not appropriate that funds should be re-directed at this time away from the present fleet towards another project.
Since the meeting on Saturday it has come to the attention of the Paddle Steamer Preservation Society that in fact a deal had already been struck to save the ship and the new owner is a Terry Jackson who has plans to invest into the ship some finance to secure her future. The society would like to wish Mr.Jackson all the very best with his project to restore Lincoln Castle and if the PSPS can be of any assistance with it we would be only too delighted to discuss his ideas further.”
Malcolm Palmer Public Relations and Promotions Officer
Monday 24th May, 2010
End of release
It is but sad, a UK paddler to all intents and purpose in good fettle, is likely going to be scrapped. All those that could well stop this disgraceful event, and are not, should hang their heads in shame
Len Knight.
-
Len,
I don't think too much should be read into this press release. Since it was released the situation has changed somewhat.
I just hope not too much is taken on by the PSPS who's funds are already being drained by poor seasons . . we do have a great example of this class of paddler in the shape of Wingfield Castle in great hands with a secure future after all.
There's not too many of us young ones around to take paddlers forward!!!
Chris
-
The Lincoln Castle is being cut up for scrap.We of the Lincoln Castle Preservation Society are trying to stop that,and to buy her,but the owner seems not to want it saving.What a great loss it is.The last coal fired paddle steamer opperating in Britain is being scrapped.
(On page No1 instead of No4 from Ian)
I am so sorry Ian, my heart bleeds for you, reminiscing of 25years ago, when a few of us stood by the ‘Medway Queen’ at Chatham Dockyard wall, which to all intents and purpose was called a sunken wreck, just the Promenade deck above water at high tide, knowing that she was to be scrapped if we did not come up with the money the receivers wanted for her, being £15.000. We had raised £5.000, but nowhere near enough; we were but ordinary working folk, of no momentary substance other than our basic income.
We retreated to the ‘Command House’ pub, to drown our sorrows, but some of us were brave enough to suggest (after a few pints) to re mortgage our homes to get the £10.000 we needed, that’s determination and dedication for sure (all paid back in a few years).
This we did, and although hard work, and many pitfalls, never gave up, from the few, we were in a few years many, most were as determined as the few were.
But sadly, if the owners are reluctant to sell, just like the Ryde, what can you do?
I am not suggesting for a moment you follow suite mortgage wise, in these uncertain days, but sadly not enough basic determination in our land today, too much talking and not doing on all sides, mainly those that could well help if need be, too much greed today, sorry mate.
Included a picture of th MQ when at Chatham Dockyard.
Len Knight.