Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: mjt60a on August 27, 2009, 05:32:56 AM
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...let's hope it gets finished before the human race colonizes mars!
actually, it might be of interest anyway, if only to see how I manage some of the crazy stuff I do and what can go disastrously wrong!.....
First, a bit of background, then, on with the circus!
The hull is 'inspired' let's say, by the Phantom civil war blockade runner (and also the Tipstaff paddle tug) in Model boats Magazine.
These are, in my opinion, pretty good beginners boats and I wish I'd had those plans 30 years ago, when I knew absolutely nothing about building model boats!
The articles in the mag suggests one or two alternative ways of building (eg. using ply instead of balsa...) and that individuals may want to 'fit out' the model to their own specs...
There are four basic changes I want to make to the hull design...
1 - the plan has vertical sides to the hull with squared bulkheads and the base of the hull the same shape as the deck (well, tipstaff does, phantom not quite so much). A real paddler appears to have vertical sides only where the paddlewheels are and are flared either side (fore and aft) so I intend to make the 'base' of the hull narrower than the deck for the first and last thirds of its length and tapered (trapezeoid?) bulkheads to suit.
2 - the plan has a completely flat deck with bulkheads below that are all the same height, I will use ones which are progressively higher fore and aft of the centre three to give a kind of 'banana-like' shape (to the deck, not the base) when viewed from the side... this means I won't actually be able to cut the deck out of one piece of quarter-inch thick balsa as in the plans or it won't bend!
3 - the plan shows how the base of the hull is sanded to give a rounded lower edge, I want a larger rounded edge so will use a second layer on the base but with all the inner area cut away so as not to raise the batteries etc any further...
4 - I don't really want a quarter-inch of buoyant material under the battery and any ballast. The base itself could be cut away and a piece of thin ply put on under it so the weight can be as low as possible but to avoid buying a big sheet of balsa and not using much of it, I'll construct an outer frame for the base using offcuts, of which I have plenty, and make the actual base from 1.6mm ply.
The bulkheads and the deck (deck-supporting frame, which will now support a 1.6mm ply deck instead of a balsa sheet one) will also be built as a frame from suitable lengths of scrap balsa.
The sides are then covered with card (from pie boxes) and covered with fibreglass mat and resin....
....in fact this turned out not to be one of my better ideas! it worked ok for the small tug I built before but with this size of hull it required much more fibreglass and took two large tubs of P38 and days of sanding to get a half-decent finish on it - I should have bought a couple of sheets of suitable thin ply and some sanding sealer....oh well, it did turn out ok in the end just more work (much more messy than sanding wood) and more expense (P38, resin and mat are not as cheap as I seem to remember!...)
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Now, thing is, I don't have a plan to work from, just a few photos I took in london, pictures in books, some videos (paddle steamer parade v1, paddle steamer memories and one on youtube) and this information from the association of dunkirk little ships website;
Length - 195 ft
Width - 24 ft
so in 1/48th scale the hull will be 48.75 inches long and 6 inches wide. The rest I'll basically just make up by looking at pictures and working out as best I can the shape of the deck, where all the fittings go and what size they are, in a similar way to what I'd do if I was going to paint a picture of the ship...it won't be accurate but should 'look right' by the end...
To start with I'll draw a straight line 48 and-three-quarter inches on a long piece of paper, then two more parallel lines 3 inches either side of it. Then draw the (approximate) outline using a google earth view of the real ship. I should then be able to fold it down the centre line and cut it out using the 'best' half (drawn freehand, they're unlikely to be identical) and use the resulting shape as a guide to build the balsa frames.... Not the best way to go about building a model ship but it's not going to be an accurate scale model, I'll be happy if it looks as good as the styrene kit available (but longer, as the finished kit looks a bit short to me)
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I'm glad you've decided to do another build Mick, I like your way of working!
I'm not one for rivet counting, so if a model looks like a reasonable "representation" that's good enough for me. Most of my models aren't strictly accurate - But as long as I'm happy with them I couldn't really care less what anyone else might think! :hehe
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks, I learn things from making these!
Now here's a couple more pictures, some of these are from the small tug (as I didn't photograph all the stages of this build) but the method is exactly the same...
first two are from the tug, the Liz is very similar but longer....
second two are of the liz, but you'll notice I've made the hull in two parts! this was a last minute alteration when I saw just how long the thing would be when finished, I have to carry it on the bus/train and the luggage area is only about 3' by 2' by 2' so it has to fit in a box no bigger than that. The two halves bolt together with wingnuts and both will float individually, all the electrics will be in the stern, the bow section will be 'pushed around' by it.
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Next (when that was all finished, I mean) I fitted the 'bulwarks' In places these are at a different 'angle' to the hull sides so they are fitted separately. I sanded the top edge of the frame so that the upper half is at the angle of the bulwark and the lower at the angle of the hull sides - and lines up nicely with the lower frame (A longish bit of wood with sandpaper glued on it is good for that last bit!).
For the bulwark I used 1/32 ply (or 0.8mm - whatever it's called these days) mainly because I didn't want the inside to be cardboard in case it separates from the GRP or wears away or something....
....after that the holes in the hull are covered with sections of thin card. I didn't use one piece as I wanted the GRP to bond to the balsa frames, I'm going to leave them in the model this time. Oh, one other thing, it's a good idea to make the deck first while it's still possible to hold the ply in place and draw around it, once the bulwarks are fitted, you can't! (I actually made card templates as I didn't have enough ply to do it now)
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Hi Mick
I've done a bit of research regarding the "Albion" hull moulding that is available, in 1:48 (Models by Design)
The real ship was 200' x 25' hull 50'' x 6.25''
There are several paddlers around these dimensions that may work with this hull.
I have drawn plans for Marchioness of Lorne 1891, to build on the hull, hope to start very soon.
Quite close dimensions to Princess Elizabeth.....
I have a spare set of Albion plans, if you think they may give you a guide, PM me, I can soon send you them
regards
Clark
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Thanks very much for the offer, I do have the Albion plans and with a hull available (and I also have the Model Boats article) it would have been easier to build it instead but I like a bit of a challenge! I will at some point have questions (to anyone who might know) about some of the details but I'm not at that stage just yet :-\
I hadn't thought to use the Albion hull for another ship, still I look forward to seeing how your model turns out :)
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Now where was I, yes once all the card has dried on I sanded the edges to make a smooth-ish transition onto the frames and GRP'd it all over. This was so messy I just couldn't wait to get it over with and didn't photograph any of the messy process! I ran out of glasscloth - had to buy some, then resin, then the result was so rough it took two tubs of P38 (most of which was sanded off) to finally get a smooth enough finish to spray paint it with red primer. That of course shows just how much more filling and sanding is still needed and about two weeks later I was satisfied with the way it looked. Here's a picture of the hull with temporary paddledrums (rejects from a previous abortive project that won't be used) just to get a 'feel' for how it's going to look. Next to it is the fictional tug - still awaiting it's windlass, companionway etc fitting on the forward deck but in sailing condition - in the same scale...
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By the way, as I mentioned, the hull is in two parts and to stop them sticking together I made a 'gasket' of actate sheet (used to make overhead projector slides) slightly bigger than the hull (width and height) and applied glass cloth starting from it and working toward each end. While sanding, the edges of the acetate become exposed and then get sanded down with the hull. When it's finally removed, the join is virtually invisible.
Next, the paddledrums and sponson houses and the superstructure - as soon as I have more time to post!
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An interesting construction technique Mick..... Doesn't the card go very floppy when applying the resin/glassfibre?
I recently found that Staples the stationers (in the UK) still do large rolls of gumstrip tape, something I thought had long since vanished, so I might have a go at a gumstrip hull for my next project, whatever that may be?
Regards
Eddy
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Surprisingly (perhaps) the card doesn't seem to be affected by the resin at all... what I did was paint it all over with resin diluted 50/50 with celulose thinners and with hardener added, then when it was dry to the touch, paint it again with 'normal' resin and hardener. While it was dry but still sticky I pressed on the sections of glasscloth which I cut to size earlier (before putting anything on the hull!) then coat the whole thing with more resin.
In my haste to get all this posted last night I'd forgotten something.... the height of the frames - and why!
I decided (for no good reason really) that the ceiling in the interior spaces would be 7 feet so at 1/4 inch to the foot, one-and-three-quarter inches, or 45mm. I figure also that the lower deck would be about the same and there'd be about 12 to 18 inches below the floor... but that part is irrelevant as it will have an extra deep hull for stability. I also thought the waterline would be about 3-and-a-half feet below the main deck (half way between lower and main decks) but that on the model, I'd increase it to 5 feet (one-and-a-quarter inches - or about 32.4mm) because on the water, most models in 1/48 scale or smaller look to me like the water is right up to the sponson deck - even very small ripples are quite large to the model! Lastly, I wanted the battery to be 10mm below the waterline (again, no good reason why but it worked well enough on the previous model) so as the battery is 34 mm high (laid on it's side) I made the frames 44mm to the waterline from the base of the hull - which includes the top and bottom frames and the 'bulkhead frames' - so that's 44 + 32.4 + 1.6 (ply on the base to support the battery etc.) = 78mm
*edit; a diagram might help...
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Here's a way to get approximate positions of the various parts on the ship...
I scanned a photo I took of the ship from as near the centre as possible and from a long way off (across the river) with a telephoto lens to minimise the effect of perspective, then opened the picture in Paintshop Pro 5.
Cropped the picture so it was the length of the hull then resized it so it was 1950 pixels long (10 pixels per foot) Now... in the bottom left corner of the PSP window is an X-Y co-ordinate showing the position of the cursor on the photo (top left pixel is 0-0) first number is the x axis (ignore the y axis for this)
with the cursor at the front edge of the hull it reads '0-476' (476 pixels down from the top - but as I said that doesn't matter) but with the cursor at the front of the superstructure it reads '620-482' so the front of the superstructure should be approx 62 feet back from the bow! - well, it'll be close enough for my 'not accurate scale' model ;D
I used this method to draw all the important bits (like where the paddleshaft goes, the funnel etc) onto the (rather innaccurate) plan I'd drawn of the deck...
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Paddledrums......To start with I drew this shape on a piece of 1.5mm styrene sheet, I used black (because light doesn't shine through it) so it didn't show on photos what I was actually doing, so I've drawn diagrams instead....
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...1mm (smallest drill I have at the moment) holes are drilled at the red dots on the first diagram so I can score the sheet on the back, it breaks easier that way... the red lines on the next pictures show where the sheet must be cut...
*by the way, the rounded cuts were made with a 'compass cutter'.... see what I mean about how you can't see what's happening in the photos when using black styrene!
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...that gives me two inner and two outer shapes for the paddledrum, clamp them all firmly together and sand all the edges to ensure they are identical. The outer pair are backed by a second piece (1mm thickness) which has the fan-shape vent in it. I cut out two more pieces but this time don't cut the vent out, just mark where it will be. Then drill holes at the inside and outside on each opening and cut between the two. Then they need to be cleaned up with a very small file...
...the diagram shows eight openings but there are actually ten, I just couldn't be bothered re-drawing it when I noticed my error!
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The 'not very clear' photos I had look like the vents are rounded at the ends but I've seen a better pic which shows they are like those on waverley, I'm not going to change it now but a better way would have been to make the 'outside' holes a bit smaller and the straight cuts wide of the holes, like this (see below) still, never mind, it looks OK at a distance and I did say it wasn't to be accurate scale..... :-\
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...The two 'outside' pieces are glued together and a small semi-circular piece fitted at the centre - I read somewhere that there is a carving of a cockle shell on there so I tried to make that too, plus the name plate (from 0.5mm styrene and model rail 'station name' lettering) The result is not too bad I think...
...you can see from these pics that I'd already started building the sponson cabins(?) before taking the photo and had almost finished and painted it in the last one... I'l cover those in more detail next time :)
*I've since seen a picture of the cockle shell and it's not like the one I made... more like the 'Shell Oil' logo, like a clam shell.... :-\
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Here's what it should look like (this is the real ship!), I still have to add that protective woodwork on the black area (which I now see I made a bit too low! - just like it seems to be in the kit version - I'd intended to put that right on my one :-[ ) It looks like the lettering is cut into the board, not raised as I thought it would be but I don't know how that could be done, I probably won't be able to do the scrollwork at the ends either...
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...the black area (which I now see I made a bit too low! - just like it seems to be in the kit version - I'd intended to put that right on my one :-[ )...
in these pictures you can see how the builder has dealt with that, on the first, the line just drops to the lower level and on the second it's drawn at a diagonal. On mine the paddledrum sticks out much more than on the kit so I'll paint it at a diagonal on that area...maybe I could hang rope fenders on it to disguise the error... :-\
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I think your being too fussy Mick, the paddlebox you've made looks like a damned good representation to me!
How did you do the very thin lining around the paddlebox vents? I've never had any success trying to do thin lines like that, especially ones that have a curve!
Regards
Eddy
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which thin line do you mean? around the outside edge? I'm just coming to that :)
Next I cut a strip of 1mm styrene sheet to cover the paddledrum, it's 65mm wide and long enough to wrap over the end pieces I bent it a bit so it almost fits without trying to straighten out then glued and taped it in place. On the outside ones, it sticks out a little bit over the edge but on the inside it is sanded smooth. By the way, it's easier to do this before adding the nameplates and such details incase any sandind is needed on the outside edge plus if it all goes wrong you dont waste the nameplates!
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Oh, I just thought, did you mean in the picture with 'cropped detail' on it? that's the real ship!
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which thin line do you mean? around the outside edge?
My mistake Mick - I see now that it's actually a seperate piece of styrene that has the vents cut in it, so the line I saw is actually the edge of that piece, where it stands proud of the backing....
Eddy
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Paddledrums......To start with I drew this shape on a piece of 1.5mm styrene sheet, I used black (because light doesn't shine through it) so it didn't show on photos what I was actually doing, so I've drawn diagrams instead....
Good idea, I will get some black sheet for that purpose. Your paddle drum/fan vent assemblies look great, nice job!
Also noticed on the pic of the real paddlebox that the black looks lower anyway, or does it just look like that in the photo?
Clark
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going on with the sponson cabins then, I cut a couple of pieces of 1.5mm styrene sheet to what I thought looked about right - 330mm long, 50mm wide (that is, high, when fitted) and stuck the paddledrum on them so the shaft position will be 165mm from the front and the lower edge of both items is flush. The top of the paddledrum stick up about 10mm above the top. when it's set I cut out pieces for the base of the cabins and for the top, the top ones have large openings cut out so I can still get to the inside for fitting portholes (possibly lights too) later. I also decided to fit the top pieces about 5mm lower than the 'wall' and cut out part of the wall to that level. This is because the lifeboats are positioned part on the sponson deck (at promenade deck level) but also part on the promenade deck itself - so for access to batteries etc. the whole thing will have to be removeable, it'll probably need some strips of wood/styrene/whatever to run right across the deck to keep it level so this will leave room to do that... (I hope!)
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....on the pic of the real paddlebox that the black looks lower anyway, or does it just look like that in the photo?
Clark
I think it's just the angle the photo was taken, in pictures I have showing the ship approaching a pier, the black area is a continuous line from the bulwarks at the front, right across the paddlebox, to just below the windows at the back. In the closeup of the paddlebox you see some white below the paddle vent then a horizontal black strip of wood(?) parallel to the white and with the big blocks at the ends (to protect the paddledrum from hitting piers?) I'd assumed that the bottom edge of the opening (the frame-like bit with the spokes etc in it forming the fan-shape vent) was the same height as the bulwarks but I see now it must be a bit higher otherwise you get that effect where the line has to drop down somewhere
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....Once all the frames are in place (and all look straight!) I cut a strip of 1mm styrene sheet 50mm wide, long enough to cover theframes and profiled(?) to fit up to the paddlebox, and glue them on using tape and clamps (and clothespegs) to hold it all in place while it sets
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Once both sides are done, I attached them temporarily to the hull using pairs of magnets (and the algae scraper from the fish tank) In the photo, I'd also built the front part of the superstructure to check the position of the door opening, it's built in a similar way to the sponson houses but starting from the base which I'd drawn on card earlier, before the bulwarks went on (I knew It'd come in useful!) I'll go into more detail on that later. Another thing I haven't mentioned yet, partly because I didn't think of it and partly because everyone else uses a one-piece hull was the position of the point where the hull separates in two. I made this to be between the two halves of the doors where it's easier to disguise/account for a split running down the hull (under the sponson deck it won't be visible anyway) With the door opening in place and the sponson house just behind the door opening I now see if the paddleshaft position on the sponson lines up with where I drew it on the hull.....
...strangely, it's about half-an-inch out! I think I put the paddledrum a bit too far forward (about 13mm) - but it's hardly noticeable, I hadnt drilled it out yet so I'll drill it so it's in the right place in the paddlebox...
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To make and fit the paddle shafts....
I bought a length of brass rod and two lengths of brass tube, the rod is the same size as meccano shaft, one tube is thick wall and fits closely over the rod, the second tube is thinwall (I'd have got thick wall but they didn't have any) and fits over the first tube...
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I drilled small holes in both sides of the hull where the shaft will go, put a straight length of (much thinner) tube through it and checked it with a set square against the sides of the hull - perfect!
then put another straight edge across the top of the hull - and the starbd side was a bit higher :-\ so I filed the holes out a bit bigger working more on the bottom of the hole on the starbd side and the top of the one on the port side until the rod was parallel with the straight edge... then continued enlarging the holes until the largest tube fitted nicely into the holes (don't have any pictures of this)
Then I 'cleaned up' about a quarter inch of one end of the smaller tube and did my best to clean up the inside of the large tube without making it too loose a fit over the small one.
The large tube is going to be the equivalent of a prop tube and the smaller one the bearings so there will be a space between them (outer tube and shaft) to fill with lubricant. I suppose they could be made using araldite but I want to add an 'oil tube' to feed the lubricant in and it will have to be soldered so I may as well solder the bearings in too.
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*The next part probably shouldn't be attempted at home - use a butane blowlamp in the back garden - but this is how I did it*
Now the fun part - best not to let your wife/mother/housekeeper see this!
apply plumbers flux about 1/4 inch of the prepared end of the small tube, hold it in a welding glove ...... and light the gas cooker. Heat the end of the tube until the flux melts then raise it above the flame and apply plumbers solder to it, rotate the tube until it's coated all around but try not to get too much solder on it (if it forms a bead inside the tube you have to start again) let it cool and apply more flux.
Then using the other welding glove, hold both tubes over the heat until the solder melts and gently insert the small tube 1/4 inch into the larger one, let it cool a bit before running it under cold water. Turn the gas off for now and saw through the thin tube leaving 1/4 inch of it inside the large one, clean up both sawn ends.
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Decide how long the shaft tubes must be, this depends on what type of wheels are to be fitted - ones like on tipstaff/phantom wont need to project outside the hull more than a couple of mm, with the ones that I make, the floats extend past the frames about 10-15mm so will need more to prevent the floats touching the hull. Cut the thick tube to length and clean it up, repeat the process to fit a 1/4 inch of thin tube into the other end, then make a second shaft tube.
For the oil tubes I cut short lengths of the outer tube and filed them to fit against the curved surface of the shaft tube then filed a small hole in the shaft tube where the oiler will go, filed a small cut in the top of the oiler and attached it with copper wire (telephone cable conductor) in place. Then I applied some flux, heated it up and applied solder (keep it horizontal so the bearings don't fall out), then cooled it and cleaned all the flux and solder beads off the cooker!
After removing the wire, filing the excess solder and filing the top of the oiler flat again they're complete!
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Fit them in the model with the shaft in place (ok, put them in first then put the shaft through) They can be glued in with araldite but make sure all the flux residue is removed or it might not stick properly - and don't get any in the ends!
In that last picture is the motor/gearbox unit I'm thinking of using.... ::)
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A very neat job on the paddleshaft bearings Mick....
Whenever I solder tubes together, after applying flux to the joint and sliding the tubes together, I cut a short length of solder - Just long enough to wrap tightly around the smaller tube (like a wedding ring on a finger) - Then apply heat with a small blowtorch and the solder melts and flows into the joint. Importantly it seems to give exactly the right amount of solder, so no excess to clean up and the joint is soldered neatly all around.
It's basically a technique used by boiler makers when they solder fittings into a boiler.
Regards
Eddy
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That would be a better way but the solder I have is very thick, I suppose I could have tried with 'electronics' solder....
...incidentally, when doing the short lengths of shaft tube, ie. fitting the second bearing and the oil tube, I found the gloves weren't quite enough protection and had to hold the short tube with pliers...
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Now, I have the shaft tubes in place and the shaft turns freely in them while it's in one piece though I intend to have two short lengths independently driven. I'd like to paint it now before fitting the sponsons permanently so I need to drill the portholes next.... but first I need to make them!
'Real' portholes appear to be fixed in place by bolts through a flange around the outside, (and I'm just guessing about this part...) those fitted on the superstructure usually (not always!) have this flange on the outside where it can be seen - sometimes it's polished brass, more often it's painted the same colour as the 'wall' it's on. Those fitted in the hull usually (again, not always) have the flange inside so you only see the bolts and a circular frame around the glass.
first pic is on Queen Mary, the circular frame does project out of the hull but this is very high above water and not likely to be hit by anything, second is on St Katherine and third on HMS Wellington, both are closer to the waterline. Forth is on a tug and is on the 'superstructure' if you can call it that, and is above deck and at least a foot inboard from the edge of the hull... no chance of hitting anything. I don't have a picture but portholes on HMS President do in fact have the flange on the outside of the hull, even those just above the waterline, and on Tattershall Castles sponsons, they had the flange inside... (so as I said, it's not always the way I made out....)
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Model portholes I saw in the model shop (glazed ones, that is, that won't leak) all seem to have a frame, quarter circular in cross-section that goes on the outside of the hull, many of the pleasure boats on the thames have this type and it would be easier to seal it to the hull (pic 1) but it doesn't give the effect I want, so I'm going to make my own... (pic 2)
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I selected a length of brass tube from the model shop and cut it into suitable short lengths, this can be done with a hacksaw, cutting disc (in a 'dremmel' type drill) or with a very small tube cutter - which is what I used. Once both ends of each piece are cleaned up they are placed on a tray cut from a polycarbonate plastic material. Most 'blister packs' are made from this, billing boats stanchions, hi-fi/video cables... I actually used the containers for morrisons apple turnovers, just do a quick test to see the resin doesn't stick to it or disolve it!
I use Trylon EM400PA shallowcast resin as it's designed to set in small quantities, ordinary casting resin doesn't seem to set properly, I think you need a minimum depth/mass of the stuff for the chemical reaction to take place... mix a small quantity in a suitable container and add a drip of it to each porthole to seal it to the tray - a mcdonalds coffee stirrer is ideal for this!
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...once it has begun to set (it has a jelly-like consistency - test the remains in the mixing container, not the portholes!) you can fill up to near the top with newly mixed resin. while that is setting cut enough small pieces of the polycarbonate material to cover each of the portholes. Mix another small amount of resin and fill the portholes to a 'dome' shape and allow time for the air bubbles to rise to the surface and dissipate, then, while the resin is still liquid, press a piece of polycarbonate onto each porthole, displacing the excess resin. and allow to set fully (I gave it two days but it depends on the temperature) before peeling off the polycarbonate and removing from the tray. You should have lengths of brass tube filled with clear resin and with bits of resin stuck to the sides...
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...the excess can be cut away with a craft knife and the outside sanded to remove it all and give a rough(ish) clean surface for the adhesive to stick to. Fitted into the hull they look quite good, I thought. The mounting bolts can be simulated by drilling holes as small as possible around the porthole, gluing in pieces of wire, styrene rod (very thin) or, depending on the scale, model rail track pins. The model shown is 1/32 and they look a little too big to me (once the hull is primer'd and painted) so on a 1/48th model I don't think I'll even try!
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To get the position of the holes I first took a compass (for drawing circles, that is, not finding directions!) placed the hull on a flat, level surface and holding the compass upright with the pointed end on the surface, lightly drew the intended waterline onto the hull. Then with the point resting on the bulwark, drew the main deck level. Then I reset the compass to draw a line halfway between the two starting under the sponsons. Toward the bow and stern, the two lines first drawn diverge somewhat so the portholes get higher above the waterline, and that is correct looking at pictures of the real ship... but unfortunately, the frame inside is thicker there so I had to make the last few a bit lower than they should be, they are half-way between main deck and the waterline (I should have planned that a bit better at the early stages!)
...I don't know the horizontal position of, or the number of portholes so decided that I'd have ten equally spaced going forward and starting under the side doors, and eight going aft, again starting under the doors - any that are under the sponsons won't really show anyhow and ten / eight looks about right to me...
I marked the positions and drilled them with a 1mm drill then, looking along the hull, check if any look too high or low....they looked OK so I went on and drilled them to close to the required diameter. Checking again one or two now do look out of line but as I file them to the necessary size, I can correct that. Keep checking with the scrap of brass from making the portholes until it's a 'good' fit.
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Once all the holes are drilled I decided to stick a few details on the hull. I cut out the side doors from 0.25mm styrene and glued them on with araldite, then cut strips of 0.25mm to represent hinges and glued them on with liquid styrene cement. Then glued a strip of 1mm x 2mm styrene all round the top of the bulwark except where the side doors are and the sponsons will go. Then filed the 'raised bit' at the bow to the correct shape and with the fairlead-thing in it. I also plugged the ends of the shaft tube with blu-tack to keep paint out. Now the hull is ready to paint, first a final coat of red primer (which will be visible below the waterline - but coated with clear matt-or-satin lacquer) then mask it up below the waterline and spray black. I took the precaution of adding a strip of masking tape to the area where the sponsons will be as I don't want to glue them onto the paint but onto the GRP... no pictures of any of this, just the end result... with the sponsons and most of the superstructure done, but more about that next update ;D
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...anyone spot the 'deliberate' mistake? I did only when I'd started spraying....I forgot to fit the rudder tube! :-[ So I drilled the hole, filed it to a good fit and epoxied a length of tube (the one used for the paddle-shaft bearings) into the hole....Then sprayed some primer into the lid of the paint can and brushed it on to blend in the rudder tube and the araldite around it...then continued with the black painted area.
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Now, before fitting the sponsons I thought it'd be easier to put the details on them first... the portholes are the same as the hull ones but these have the mounting flange visible on the outside. To make it I found a suitable size piece of brass tube (about 2 - 3 mm larger diameter than the one used to make the portholes and filed the end all round the outside to a sharp(ish) edge. Then I took part of the sheet of 0.25mm styrene sheet and drew a straight line on it and using a compass, some circles just larger than the brass tube, then several lines at 90 degrees to the first line and some at 45 degrees, through the centres of the circles (the result looks a bit like an 8 spoked wheel - but the photos came out very blurred) Then, with the styrene on a soft surface (like a piece of old carpet) ans as carefully as possible, place the brass tube in the circle and press down until it cuts out a disc of styrene with (hopefully) the hole made by the compass in the centre.
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Next, on a bit of scrap wood and using something thin and not too sharp (the smallest 'phillips type' screwdriver from a watchmakers set would probably work - but I used some old scissors that have got quite blunt over the years) press the 'bolts' in using the pencil lines as a guide to get them equally spaced. they should be near enough to the outside edge so they'll still be there when the portholes are drilled out.
These are fitted to the sponsons/superstructure before drilling and filing the holes out. To ensure they're in the right place, I marked the positions on the sponsons (not easy with black styrene but I put masking tape on it to draw on) and drill tiny holes at the centres. Then take the tape off, put a bit of wire through the hole in the disc and coat with liquid styrene. Put the wire through the hole in the sponson and slide the disc down the wire. Ensure two bolts at the top are parallel with the top edge before pressing the disc hard against the sponson wall. Once set, the holes can be made for the porthole.
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I noticed the portholes on the 'sides' have a sort of 'rain gutter' around them forming an eyebrow-like shape so decided to represent it using a short length of wire bent around the tube used to cut the discs and with the ends bent to 90 degrees and stuck into holes either side of the porthole flange. The inside then has araldite wiped round it to blend into the wall. When painted it looks OK... Also, pictures show some type of extractor vents which I tried to make using some styrene tube and styrene rod that fits inside it. The tube is cut to length and the ends countersunk with a large drill (held and turned by hand) to make the visible end look thinner. A hole is drilled in the side to take the rod. The end of the rod is then made pointed with a pencil sharpener (and perfected with sandpaper as the pencil sharpener didn't work all that well!) and a cone cut off leaving part of the un-tapered rod to centralise it in the tube. Two of these are needed for each vent. Then the end of the remaining piece of rod is filed so it fits into the hole and against the wide ends of the cones and about a quarter-inch cut off and glued into the hole. The vents are glued into holes drilled in appropriate places in the sponson house. Once it's painted it looks pretty good - although, I now know the real vents are much 'shorter' than the ones I made - but I'm still happy with them :)
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A last minute change....
I saw on this video that the black area on the sponson appears to be 'thicker' than the white...so I glued another layer of 1mm styrene sheet on before painting. This stiffened it up quite a bit so was a good idea in the end...
The vents not quite right... found this picture after I'd fitted them, they are indeed much shorter than I've made them - but I'm not going to try to alter them now ;D
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...Just one thing slightly bothers me..... unfortunately, and I don't know how I did it, on the 'rear' sponson houses I put the ventilator where the porthole should have been and then the porthole behind it....so the porthole is further back than it should be :-\
Still, too late to do anything about it now (and it's not that bad, I mean, who's gonna know....)
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So....with the hull painted and the sponsons painted, I stuck them in place using araldite and clamps, pairs of magnets and a couple of magnetic algae scrapers from the aquarium to hold them in place, it all looks OK so far.
I also added some lettering at the bows and the thin white line all round the ship, lettraset for the lettering and Model Technic 'Trim Line' for the line...
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In the second picture, part of the superstructure can be seen still under construction, I'll cover that in more detail next but here's the 'plan' for how it can be done (well, hopefully it can)...
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..I cut the parts out before painting and assembled some of them as it involved clamping them in place - and I thought it would most likely damage the paintwork if I did it later... the superstructure is built inside the hull starting with the base and working upward, to ensure everything fits reasonably well. Cling film is laid around the inside of the hull to prevent the walls sticking to the hull, then the parts are glued in place and clamped to the bulwarks and if necessary, braced with lengths of balsa. Because the sides are slightly curved and the walls are flat styrene sheet, they tended to try to straighten out - so bracing was necessary in this case! The outsides were painted before windows and portholes are fitted, I didn't fancy trying to mask them out later!
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Next I fit the window glass (cut from spare CD cases) and the inner frames (0.25mm styrene sheet) The inner frames are built up from strips as with my level of accuracy The windows probably wouldn't line up if I tried to make one piece! At this time I've fitted about half of the 'ribs' which will (I hope) hold the wall in it's curved shape and also support the promenade deck.
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Now....couple of questions!
How does everyone make the railings? I've only seen stanchions that take 3 rails - and one of those is the top so would be hidden or left out when the wooden rail capping is fitted - the models I've seen have 3 rails plus the wooden capping rail. Can you buy stanchions like that (maybe 4 rail ones) or do they come supplied with the kit? Any advice would be most welcome as I don't look forward to making my own!
Also, anyone know what goes on here* and where abouts? I've only seen the ship in a static role and this area was altered completely, the only things left being two fairleads. No pictures I have in books ever seem to show a good view and neither do the films in 'Paddle Parade' In the video on youtube, there's a very brief shot showing the capstan (presumably all the mechanical parts are below the deck) similar to the one on Queen Mary but with a rectangular base**, but really little else. so I'm wondering is there a ladder from the promenade deck? (pictures of the ship on google earth show one in the centre - but several other things look changed so no idea if it was there originally) was there a steering wheel on there? any other fittings?
(*small semi-circular deck at the stern)
(**Queen Mary may also have a rectangular base but looking at the picture again, the deck has been covered with some bitumen type substance so they might have put it over the baseplate. The eliptical cover I'm guessing, opens to reveal the steam controls...)
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Mick,
Stuart gave a good method of making capped railings in the following thread.... The posting you want is about halfway down the page. http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4223.60
Regards
Eddy
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Yes I read that with interest, it's a good idea for fitting a wooden (or metal, or styrene painted to look like wood) rail capping on stanchions designed for another wire rail at the top...the problem I'm having is finding stanchions with four holes - so they still have three wire rails when you replace the top one... The ones in the shops have only two or three... :-\
One idea would be to build a tool myself, a fixed platform with some kind of clamp to hold several very small dia brass tubes and a sliding one to hold the 'expo' drill with a cut-off disc in it, the drill on a hinged adjustable thingy to set the height and cut half way through the tubes, then solder the wires into the slots, still a bit labour intensive though even making ten at a time but it's a thought...
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What's the total height of the stanchions required Mick?
Stuart
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23mm is the height of the 2 hole 'billing boats' ones I got for the landing platforms, they look about right for the human figures I intend to use, so yes, 23mm.
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James Lane can probably help with stanchions Mick - He can do special orders at very good prices, so if what you want isn't listed in his catalogue just give him a ring...
Regards
Eddy
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Hi all just to say that I used James Lane stanchions on my1:48 version of "Princess" and they worked pretty well. They are a modified split pin type thing and have the correct number of railings. See photo.
Cheers Chris M
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Ah! that's a pity Mick - I found a source for 15mm 4 hole ones but that's the largest I could find.
I did once make some 4 hole 30mm ones (but only 10 of them) for what it's worth here's how I did it. I used the brass beads that fisherman use for tying flies. They come in diameters of 1.5mm upwards - but only have one hole. I made a wood jig to hold the beads at the right distance apart, threaded some 1mm rod through them then soldered the whole thing (only a thin film of solder and they were being painted so the brass being 'covered up' didn't matter). I then made another jig consisting of a block of wood with a horizontal hole into which the stanchions fitted, through this block vertically I drilled 4 x 0.8mm dia holes in the positions that the beads were when the stanchion was in the horizontal hole (hope that makes sense). Then using a miniature pillar drill I drilled the holes for the rails. The results were very good - but by strewth they took a long time to make!
Stuart
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the 'James Lane' ones sound ideal, I'll have to work out how many I need, thanks everyone :D
I bought some pieces of ladder for the passenger companionways, which I needed to build the front part of the superstructure (needed to know the width, angle of the ladder and therefore where it comes out through the front wall...) and more recently, bought some for the 'crew ladders' to the bridge, these are narrower than the passenger ones and I couldn't find any in the shop so got them on ebay.....
When I compared the two, I thought 'they're not even the same scale!' but having re-read the article on making your own, I see the angle for crew ladders is steeper than passenger ones - and on closer inspection, the angle of the treads is different. So, I placed them against a box side by side and so the treads are more-or-less horizontal and lo-and-behold (?) looking at them from the front, they are indeed the same (and correct) scale after all...
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Had a go at building the railings around the back of the boiler casing....
looking at the photos, the watertank is surrounded* by two-hole stanchions and rails but with a diagonal (compared to the horizon) mesh behind them (I have a better picture in 'paddle steamers' by Andrew Gladwell, which shows it in more detail) so I bought some two hole stanchions, brass wire and copper mesh, took out the soldering iron... and set about constructing the thing.
I'd already made a funnel and the top of the boiler casing but they don't look that good, I'll probably make those again, this time with the base plate a bit bigger and use maybe balsa for the funnel in a sort of plank-on-frame method. This funnel is styrene sheet and didn't bend smoothly so even if it looks ok here (out of focus!) it looks horrible close up :-[
I'll just use the baseplate to mark the holes in the 'good' one....
I assembled the railings in the 'usual way' - I'm sure everyone's done this, or can do so no pictures of that, then filed flat the inside faces of the 'balls' on the stanchions and applied a little solder to them. Then cut a piece of the mesh (diagonally, because that's how the real one is - don't know if that's too much attention to detail but it also helps stop the mesh falling apart!) then, holding the mesh in place with wooden clothes pegs and a piece of scrap wood, heated each spot of solder until the mesh was fixed in place...
*actually, it's not 'surrounded' as the rails are on three sides only
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...then tidied up a few pointy bits of solder with a mini file, and spray painted it white - not too thickly or it might clog up the mesh! (that goes for the amount of solder used too)
I'm quite impressed with how it's turned out ;D
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...I don't know if anyone noticed but in the black-and-white picture (part of a postcard) the structure at the back of the funnel has a vertical rear end, not sloping as I made it (made it before I had that picture). Therefore the water tank won't fit into the space - another reason why I want to make a new one!
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Hi PD's........Mick...I cannot open/expand .....'realboilercasing01'.jpg [5.42KB 127x116] ........................ :whistle Derek
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...then tidied up a few pointy bits of solder with a mini file, and spray painted it white - not too thickly or it might clog up the mesh! (that goes for the amount of solder used too)
I'm quite impressed with how it's turned out ;D
Looks really good, will use your method when i get around to the railings on my build, thanks for sharing..
Kim
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Hi PD's........Mick...I cannot open/expand .....'realboilercasing01'.jpg [5.42KB 127x116] ........................ :whistle Derek
that's because it's no bigger, it's just a cropped part of the postcard, if I enlarge it becomes pixellated... like this
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I see there's a couple of pics in 'Paddlewheels' this month which show a few more details I hadn't been aware of before (didn't realise there was so much 'junk' on top of the boiler casing!) At the moment I'm spraying the hull with coats of matt varnish because (a) I read somewhere that red primer is not water resistant - and I like it for the hull colour below waterline, and (b) the paints I used are all different brands with different surface finishes (basically whatever I had lying around) and I want an 'overall sheen' to the finish. It looks good so far until I ran out of varnish and masking tape, got more now but I'd expected to have that completed by now....
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...while waiting (for the hull to dry enough to handle it again) I've been messing around with various bits and pieces like the boiler casing 'fence', the water tank/firefighting thingy that goes inside it and lately, the landing platforms...
...not really to scale but I found a material to use inside a ventilator I had to replace in the kitchen, it has a styrene 'flyscreen' inside which would be perfect for gratings - in 1/24th scale! I tried it anyway to see how it would look and I think I'll use it on the model, the holes are about twice the size they should be but I've seen worse, it doesn't look too bad at first glance...
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...looks better painted and with some railings on it... I thought I did a pretty good job of painting but now I look at the photo there's lots of white showing through, eyesight's not what it was, I'll have to give a bit more attention to the gratings before painting the frame and railings...
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Well, the varnish/lacquer is all set now so.... better go and see if it's going to end up in davy jones' locker.... ARRRRRR!
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...oh dear, there's a slight leak on the rear of the bow section*... and I can see why now, must've got a bubble in the resin, should be able to fix it easily enough - in fact if I'd gone ahead and made the silicon rubber seal I probably would never have discovered it - but I'll fix it first, just in case the seal should fail.... :-[
*if I made the hull in one piece (like any sensible modeller), this would never have happened - but then I'd have trouble getting it on the bus....
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Looking great Mick.
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I've sanded the area with the air bubble back to the wood - and discovered a couple more :-[
Then re applied resin to them (note to self - next time, put fibreglass tissue on it the same as on the outsides of the hull) which is now set and sanded smooth. I just tried the bow section in the test tank again (with a quite large piece of lead inside) and after half an hour it's looking good so far so I increased the depth a bit to just over the waterline and will see how it looks with the increased water pressure. If it passes this test I'll try filling it to above the portholes and see that they are all sealed too, but I'll need more weight as it's just begining to lift off the bottom! Always seems to surprise me just how much ballast is needed when the hull is deepened even by just half an inch....
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While I was waiting for the resin to set I made a start on the promenade deck, first cut one out of card, adjusting it until it fitted then, using the card as a guide, cut one from 0.75mm styrene sheet. This will eventually be covered with 0.8mm ply with the planking drawn on and 'weathered' a bit as it looks too new...
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Looking great Mick.
Thanks, I can just look at it for hours sometimes in wonder at how it grew from a pile of scrap ;D
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Well, that all seems OK :D
Even with quite a lot of meccano pulleys inside plus the lump of lead, it was still floating (well below the intended water line but I thought that would hold it down...) so I had to hold it down by hand while inspecting the portholes with a miniature flashlight, I didn't stand there for an hour this time but didn't see a drop of water get in!
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Not very much progress lately - I knew this would be the case as I'm back to work now - but I have built a little bit more of the forward superstructure and sub-deck and started looking into how some of the fittings will be made....
....also had a go at building a windlass/anchor winch for the 'Alumchine' model, which was virtually completed last year (to sailing condition) but still lacked some of the fittings, so with nothing new to show on the Princess Liz, here's what the windlass looks like at the moment (still needs a couple of bits fitted and some more paint!)...
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If anyone's interested, this is how I made the 'chain pulley'...
cut four discs of styrene sheet as in the picture, glued them together forming a pulley and drilled through the centre to take the shaft. Then filled the 'groove' in the pulley with model filler (milliput is good for this) and using a thin piece of plastic, pressed it into a V-shape. Before it sets, lay the chain into it with the links 'vertical and horizontal' and press it into the filler then remove the chain.
Chances are it won't perfectly line up and the last of the impressions of the horizontal links will fall too far from the first one (or may overlap it a bit) but as it isn't a working model I'll just have that bit right at the bottom of the wheel.
Probably won't see this component very clearly anyhow once the chain is on it!
(oh, by the way, the 'rope pulleys' are actually drawing pins! - I might fill them too and shape them with a suitable piece of tubing to give a more curved surface)
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Nice one Mick!
Stuart
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After much trial and error and cutting and filing/sanding I finally have something that should work as the front of the superstructure. This was the most difficult part yet as I have no plan to work from and only a vague idea of how it should look, but I'm happy with it now and I'm sure that when painted and planked it'll be fine. Just a few bits t add before painting it ;D
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I'll bet that superstructure was fun to make Mick - I can see lots of swearing and cursing going on while that was done!! ;)
Eddy
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first thing I found out was that the cut-aways where the stairs go are not rectangular but have a curved lower edge, quite a bit higher on the outsides due to the shape of the front wall... that's when I realised nothing about this part would be straightforward!
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Now it's painted white, it looks pretty good...
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Looks better than 'pretty good' to me, looks like a very nice job coming on!! 8)
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Not much progress as I was out most of the weekend, started making the sponson decks (at main deck level) front ones are ready to be weathered once the back ones are made (to save on weathering liquid) - which I should do in a minute or two soon as I get off the computer....
Other than that, painted the 'two tone' front wall on the superstructure, also I intend to have the doors open at main deck level (waverley and balmoral always seem to have them open as does just about every photo I've ever seen of a paddler sailing) so some interior detail will be needed and I made a start on painting the internal walls, both these areas need another coat yet, photos when they look presentable :o
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cut out the sponson decks, drew lines (planks) on them and weathered them today, now waiting for them to dry before fitting...
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...I'm guessing they're wood planked but can't be 100% certain, in this 1st pic (freeze frame from a home video) they are a different, brownish colour compared to the edge of the sponson.....
Second pic shows the actual colour of waverleys deck and is what I try to recreate on a model...
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Looks like a neat job, just out of interest what pen / ink / method did you use to make your lines?
Kim
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...so, first I poured a cup of tea and keep the tea bag until it cools....
then wipe it all over the deck to stain it brown, then let it dry.
next I make up some very weak black poster paint (ie mostly water) and paint that all over the deck to give a sort of brownish grey colour to it. when it's dry it will be given several coats of sanding sealer before fitting to the model.
It isn't exactly the colour of weathered wood but I prefer it to leaving the wood bare (looks too white to me) or using stain/varnish (ok for a luxury yacht I suppose where the rich owner might have that done on the real vessel) :)
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Looks like a neat job, just out of interest what pen / ink / method did you use to make your lines?
Kim
just a black ballpoint pen, first I draw the margin plank lightly in pencil then the actual decking. I notice the planks never end with a point so I draw a line at right-angles to the plank from the centre of the plank where it intersects the edge of the margin, up to the next straight edge (hard to explain, hopefully it's clearer when looking at the previous pictures) When I'm happy with it, go over the bits I want with the pen
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Easy enough to follow Mick. I do like the weathered effect. I must admit i do tend to just seal and varnish to scared i will undo the hard work :)
Might have a play with your tea and poster paint idea, thanks
Kim
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best thing is to try it on some leftover wood from making the deck and see how it looks and how thick/how many coats it needs to give the colour you want
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I saw this article on 'All Model Railroad forum' about making weathered wood from styrene sheet, looks amazing to me and up to the point where he adds brown (to simulate where the roof has protected it to some degree) it looks perfect for well weathered decking in my opinion :o
http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6318
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Very interesting article - my problem is it takes me so long to build a model without weathering.
I think it might add years onto my build time, possibly be better leaving the wood outside and let it weather naturally in my case :)
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Stuck them on with araldite, port side yesterday and stbd about two-and-a-half hours ago (it's not rapid epoxy) There are still a couple of pieces right at the forward end to make and fit but need the first ones securely attached to get the exact dimensions and position - they will be on the removable bow section. Next is to fit frames underneath, styrene I-beam around and some rods from the frames to the hull...
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Next is to fit frames underneath, styrene I-beam around and some rods from the frames to the hull...
...also strips of black styrene sheet, roughly sanded to represent the wooden edging fitted into the I-beam...
The effect will look like this:
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The sponsons are looking very neat!
Stuart
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started on the frames last night using spring clamps, clothes pegs small magnets and a pin to hold the bits in place, should get some more done tonight - and maybe a bit more on the interior as the araldite takes so long to set!
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well I didn't do any more on the interior yet, went to the 'shoeburyness model rail society' (?) show last weekend and bought one or two items....
1) gears for the gearbox. This is from a 1/35 tamiya remote control centurion tank I've had for decades and is one thing I'm considering to drive the model. Bought two 12v motors (at this show last year!) to replace the 3v ones originally fitted but due to its age (no doubt) the 8-tooth gears on the motors had split. I've been looking for replacements for about a year and can't find any (scalextric ones might have fitted?) bought two 10 tooth/40 tooth ones and cut away the 40 tooth part, these fitted the motors perfectly but \are a larger diameter and as the motors are touching together I can't move them to give clearance. Instead I removed the top cover and the shaft and filed down the ends of the brass gears by about half-a-millimetre so the crown wheels can move outward a bit. All seems OK now - though I have no idea yet how fast the output shaft will turn with these motors. Have to try them on 12v and see.....
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2) paddlewheels...
I cut out 8 rings from styrene sheet of a suitable diameter for the inner and outer rims and stuck two on a piece of graph paper. then cut out from styrene, a spoke based roughly on the ones on the graupner paddlewheels (ie. straight with a lug for the feathering float bracket) and tried it on the wheel (first pic) it soon became apparent that at this scale at least, the bearing hole would be too near the outer rim. ways around this would be make the lug closer to the inner rim to start with, or make it curved? or angled inward toward the centre?...or.....
have a 'bend' in the spoke itself! (always wondered why real ones have that!) so I made another (second pic) with the inner half of the spoke straight out from the centre but the outer half parallel to the paddle float at bottom dead centre. looks better, now I just need to make 24 of them (it'll have six floats per wheel in an attempt to reduce cavitation (see the ivor bittle website)
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...oh yes, the other item I bought at the show!
I've used 5mm and 3mm LEDs before but one of the trade stands had 1mm LEDs! with my eyesight they're almost too small to see and are quite expensive at £1 each but I'm sure the cost will come down as they become readily available from places like maplin and online stores (if they're not already) I bought a couple just to see how they look - and maybe to use on the model somewhere, bulkhead lights maybe....
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Quick question, what is the dia. of the outer rim of your paddlewheel?
Many thanks,
Kim
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it's about 4-and-a-quarter inches, or 106mm...
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Hi Mick,
It's coming along very nicely.... I have to admit I didn't understand what you meant by the "bend" in the arm, and even after looking at the photos I just didn't get it - I went away, had a cuppa, and then looked at your post again - voila! All of a sudden it stood out like a sore thumb!
It's amazing how that small bend can make such a difference to the position of the float attachment point!
Regards
Eddy
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Mick,
Paddlebox/sponson area looking very smart indeed.
As far as I can understand, from looking at various wheels, the outer portion of the arms are angled differently to allow the floats to feather without obstructing the arms at any time during the revolution of the wheel
regards
Clark
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That sounds about right but until I attempted making one it hadn't occured to me that, if the wheel spoke was straight, it would restrict movement of the floats' top edge (top edge when it's entering the water while running forwards that is)
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Almost completed the 'outriggers' now and cut out the part of the sponson deck that's part of the bow-section so I should soon be able to start fitting the edging...
...also had a little mess around with some model rail street lamps I bought to use as the swan-neck lights on the landing platforms, they will need a few modifications before I'm happy with them...
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I made up one side of a paddlewheel just to see how it will look and if it fits into the paddledrum - it looks like this might actually work!
just have to make 3 more (2 of them a mirror image of this one) plus the hubs/attachment to the shaft and figure out how to mount the floats and feathering mechanisms (I have some ideas on that)...
also completed a bit more of the sponson decks....
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I've left the wheels for the time being and done some more on the sponsons...
all the 'outriggers' were fitted during last week and strips of thin ply between them to help support the I-beam, and this weekend I added the styrene I-beam round the outside. Painted part of it first that I find difficult to paint after fitting without getting paint on the deck planks then glued in place with araldite (roughened the inside with sandpaper first so the glue will grip better, used railway track pins to nail it in place while the glue sets - they will be impossible to remove once set so will stay there)
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The piece that runs under the paddlebox will be removeable as it will have the feathering mechanism on it, haven't fully figured out how to do that yet...but I will when the time comes ;D
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well I fitted the styrene strip inside the I-beam today and it looks much better (than it did with white showing) had to carve out some cavities with the 'expo' drill for the track pin heads to fit into, then used styrene cement to attach it. I now have an idea how to make the middle bit removable (more on that when I start making it)
Also tried out the motors using a car battery charger and they work just fine (if a little noisy with the metal gears) speed of the output shafts is about 250 rpm so should be able to gear it down at the connection to the paddle shaft using a couple of meccano pulleys or similar...
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Just one quick point Mick, if you ran the motors on a battery charger, it was probably kicking out around 20 volts (or more) with such a light load on it, so don't base any speed calculations on the RPM you had using it as the power source.
Regards
Eddy
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I had thought of that, though I expected the output to be about 14v my main concern was that seeing how many sets of gears there are inside - and that it came from a model tank - it might be too slow for a paddler, needn't have worried. 250rpm was just a guess by looking at it running, I later did another test using the actual battery I intend to use and put a bit of masking tape on the shaft and counted the revolutions in 15 seconds. It was 70 - so more like 280rpm with no load except friction in the gearbox. I'm sure it will be adequate
(* just saw this.... 'Car batteries and valve-regulated-lead-acid batteries (VRLA) are typically charged to between 2.26 and 2.36V/cell. At 2.37V, most lead-acid batteries start to gas, causing loss of electrolyte and possible temperature increases......
......Charging a 12-volt battery (6 cells) at a cell voltage limit of 2.40V, for example, would require a voltage setting of 14.40V....)
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not much progress this weekend, I made another paddlewheel rim/spokes but didn't photograph it as it's identical to the first one, now need to make a couple that are mirror images of them...
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....I intend to have the doors open at main deck level (waverley and balmoral always seem to have them open as does just about every photo I've ever seen of a paddler sailing) so some interior detail will be needed....photos when they look presentable :o
here are the 'visible' areas in the forward end painted and doors fitted...
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Looking VERY nice Mick!
Stuart
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Thank you, I still need to paint the floor.... on waverley, the interior floor (ie. inside the deck shelters) appears to be put together in the same way as the exterior deck but is stained and varnished so I want to do the same...kind of!
it isn't all that easy to see so I intend to leave it as styrene but first need to make some tests to see if it's best to paint it matt white,yellow like the walls, or light brown then use coloured varnish/one-step woodstain...or just use shiny brown paint...
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by the way, not sure if there really is a double door between the stairways but the shape on the outside suggests there would be a companionway there to the lower deck (where the port holes are in the hull) and I tend to just build something believeable if I can't find out for sure!
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fitted the external doors today, two (non-working) sliding ones on the front wall and the 'half height' ones (also non-working) just ahead of the sponsons....
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made a test piece of styrene (a leftover scrap, scored to represent planks) and painted it with white, yellow-ish (sailcloth?) and brown paints then covered some of it with woodstain/varnish...the brown with varnish looked best to me so painted the interior floor with that...
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...going to have a few passengers in there so started on some of the 2nd hand preiser ones I got at the model rail show (wish I'd bought more of these while I had the chance) they're already painted but in gloss and not very well, also have bits stuck on them where they would have been superglued to a station platform but they clean up OK with a small file.
I didn't try to remove the gloss paint first as they will be inside and not easy to see but I read on another site that can be done by soaking them in automotive brake fluid and it won't harm styrene but removes any type of paint (that last bit is true, as I found out when I spilled a bit on my car when topping up the brake cylinder... wiped the stuff off after it had been there about 20 mins to reveal shiny clean steel!)
I carefully drilled into one or both legs of the figure and glued in a short length of wire through the bottom of the foot/feet. This can then be stuck into a scrap of balsa or an eraser to hold the figure while painting, and afterwards used to attach to the deck.
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I fitted some passengers yesterday, drilled a hole for the wire, countersunk it a little then pushed the wire through and filled the countersink with superglue. Once set, cut the excess wire off and filed it more-or-less level. It'll do but if they come loose I'll replace with araldite.
This morning I spent hours making the staircase and interior walls inside the rear doors. Still have to make the actual steps but to sum up I cut a piece of the ladder used for the forward stairs in two (along it's length) and fitted the halves in the stairwell. Now intend to cover it with strips of styrene to create a new wider ladder...
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to sum up I cut a piece of the ladder used for the forward stairs in two (along it's length) and fitted the halves in the stairwell. Now intend to cover it with strips of styrene to create a new wider ladder...
Great idea Mick will use it in the future I'm sure.
Regards,
Kim
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I've now completed the stairway, will show a picture once it's painted but for now, how it looked partly complete. Styrene strips cover the remains of the original steps and also the spaces between each step and the next, this is partly because they're supposed to be that way but mainly because you could still see the halves of the original ones underneath...
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Lovely work Mick - can't wait to see it finished.
Stuart
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now painted the stairs, not perfect but they can't be seen all that clearly on the finished model so will be sufficient
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Made the 'centres' for the wheels, each has a meccano collet inside a close fitting styrene tube with two more lengths of styrene tube which fit inside the first to provide a larger area for gluing the rim assemblies on to it (when I've made them that is) the brass collet is scratched up a bit first then fitted using araldite to prevent it turning inside the tube, if I decide to use grub screws instead of the cheese-head ones in the picture.
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Started to build the 'deck shelter' structure that goes over the stairway (I assume it does anyhow) it's made from clear styrene from a CD case, thin (.5 mm) black styrene sheet inside with windows cut out and painted, need to cover the outside with thin wood next.
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Hi Mick,
Good idea using the cd case, that must give a good solid structure, and saves having to glaze the windows later on.
I think you will be correct about the stairway going down inside the shelter. I have noticed that some older paddlers (on the Clyde anyway), were built with "open" conpanionways going down, but were later altered (either moved or had a house built over the top)....seems more sensible than exposed to the elements!
I like all the interior detail you have been doing, looking great!
regards
Clark
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I've now finished covering the outsides with wood. It's the same as is used for the deck but coloured with ronseal wood dye before gluing in place. All was going so well until I added the final piece, I hadn't noticed that I'd got some superglue on my fingertip - until I got stuck to one of the door windows! Managed to get it unstuck but made a mess of the window so I could either...
Cut out the door and replace it :-[
Start over, new deck shelter :'(
Attempt to 'repair' the damage :-\
nothing to lose so I superglued a piece of fairly fine wet-or-dry to a strip of styrene and sanded down the inside of the window, then polished it with toothpaste on a cotton bud (metal polish would work better I think - if I had some) doesn't look too bad so I might leave it as it is - or might get some brasso and try with that.
Picture shows how it looks now, will be better when it's on a wood deck, not black styrene!
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bought some bits I needed to continue with the wheels...
It occured to me that the most important thing about this is that all the holes line up, and with the way I'm making these frames there's a good chance they wouldn't! so I'm making the outer rims on top of the inner ones, drilling the holes for the shaft and the feathering floats and putting lengths of brass tube in them to see that they're all parallel before the adhesive sets solid. Hopefully the bits of cling film should prevent the whole lot becoming fused together ???
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That's a VERY good idea Mick. I have minor descrepencies in my wheels because I DIDN'T do that!. They look to be coming together very nicely
All the best
Stuart
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I have minor discrepancies in mine too but didn't want any more if at all possible!
One frame is now almost complete, I just have to cut six (four more) identical lengths of brass tube for the bearings and to strengthen the frames a bit more, then it can be painted. Also I have to complete the other one.... then make the floats and the movable bits that attach them to the frames.... then the feathering gear....
The full size Medway Queen might be finished before this model!
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This is how I see it when assembled, track pins or bolt/screws from walkman-type device would be set into the smaller diameter, inner brass tube using araldite. This would allow the short pieces of larger, outer tube to rotate independently of the long piece which is 'araldited' to the frame of the wheel but would be difficult to disassemble if it becomes necessary. Very long 11BA bolts would fit all the way through the inner piece and could be tightened against it without interfering with movement but I don't know if such a thing is available or how much it would cost....
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(just thought of this!) ...I suppose it would be possible to solder a screw in one end of the thin tube and a short length of 11BA screw in the other (with the head cut off) and use an 11BA nut and washer on it to simulate a long bolt, might keep the cost down a bit... ::)
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Very long 11BA bolts would fit all the way through the inner piece and could be tightened against it without interfering with movement but I don't know if such a thing is available or how much it would cost....
Hi Mick,
Wheels are coming together nicely.
If it helps - when i was doing my research the best i could find was m2 threaded rod in nylon or steel.
When i asked a manufacturer if they would turn me a smaller dia threaded rod he laughed and quoted me something ridiculous. In the end i used 12ba screws and nuts...
Regards,
Kim
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Never thought of nylon, that would work OK and wouldn't corrode at all. Strength isn't an issue as it's just to stop the tube drifting out of the bearing... I'll have to look into that, thanks :D
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What about servo pushrods?
2mm dia, about 10"-12" long, sadly only threaded on one end..... But, cut to length with the unthreaded end bent at 90 degrees to lock it in place, and then a nut on the outer end (where it can be seen).
The rods are made from hardened "piano wire", so the bent end would be fairly resistant to pulling straight again......
http://balsamart.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207&products_id=1252
Just an idea...
Eddy
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maybe, it'll be worth looking into....
....or I could get a set of these - http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/SCT1MM.jpg
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Our very own talisman (Clyde model boats) and Squires tools sell individual taps and dies.
Running a thread onto 2mm brass is very easy. I thread all my own rod and have never had a problem. (make sure if you buy a die that it is a split die designed to cut a thread from scratch and NOT a die intended to clean up a damaged thread. These are often sold as 'die sets' but are virtually useless)
Just my 2 pennorth!
All the best
stuart
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Our very own talisman (Clyde model boats) and Squires tools sell individual taps and dies.
Running a thread onto 2mm brass is very easy. I thread all my own rod and have never had a problem. (make sure if you buy a die that it is a split die designed to cut a thread from scratch and NOT a die intended to clean up a damaged thread. These are often sold as 'die sets' but are virtually useless)
Just my 2 pennorth!
All the best
stuart
"The rods are made from hardened "piano wire", This is a far way from Brass and rates about the same as Stainless Steel for machining.
The rule is "If you can file a flat on the material you can thread it." Music Wire is as hard as the steel in the dies and will soon dull them. I had a fellow modeler ask me to thread a 2mm shaft, he said he would pay costs, and was supprized when I billed him for a new Die., I did give him the old dull one which I had used twice, once to thread a brass rod and once to thread his shaft.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Hi Pd's........I am pretty sure all of the Dubro type product threads on small controll linkage & the like are rolled threads ....& not cut by conventional cutting tools
The process of rolling threads as opposed to cutting theads produces far greater mechanical strength
I attempted to screw cut a 10 BA thread on a short section of 1.6 mm dia phosphor bronze with a split tapered die & followed up with a parallel die nut.....needless to say I failed.........it's OK to tap a 10 BA female thread form & then use pre machined 10 BA brass threaded screws ............Derek
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I never suggested putting a thread on piano wire - The ORIGINAL idea was to use brass.
Stuart
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I never suggested putting a thread on piano wire - The ORIGINAL idea was to use brass.
Stuart
Sorry, I got the threading piano wire from Eddy's post " The rods are made from hardened "piano wire" Brass certainly is much easier to thread.
Regards,
Gerald.
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I've completed one of the wheels (frames, not the feathering bits yet) and painted it... the other I stripped down and started again, decided after a little check that a couple of the 'minor discrepancies' would actually be big enough to prevent it working :(
this was the first one I assembled and didn't have a clear idea about what was needed, any errors were minimised/removed in the following products. It was quite strong as it turned out, and I had to cut the spokes either side of the rims (which I wanted to keep as all were made with the compass cutter on the same setting) and sand away the part of the spoke that was stuck to the rims. I already had some spare centres, meant for the 'star centre' in the feathering gear but can just make another set when I need them...
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That's a very fine looking wheel Mick. I look forward to seeing the flippy floppy wet rectangular bits.
All the best
Stuart
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Very nice wheel 8)
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Thanks, I'm quite pleased with how it's turned out. I've rebuilt the faulty one with new spokes and it's fine now, just have to fit the tubes then it can be painted, hopefully I'll start making the moving parts at the weekend ;D
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Well, I finished and painted the other wheel but as it's identical to the first one I didn't take a picture. Also cut the lengths of brass rod for the half shafts (and a bit for the rudder), they are the same diameter as meccano shaft but shouldn't rust! This is so I could use meccano collets and pulleys that I bought on ebay. Have now started on the moving parts...
...I thought it'd be possible to make them all from a fairly small piece of styrene, with a bit of thought, so drew a rough diagram on the back of an envelope. Then marked out and started drilling the styrene...
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...the 'thick' lines on the diagram are scored quite deeply in the styrene so it will break (later), the thin ones are scribed lightly with a pin. 'Pilot' holes of 1mm are drilled to start with but will be opened out when I see if they're in the right places.... the separate pieces should be able to be snapped off of the strip and will need some filing to get the final shape. Once all are done I'll see if I need to re-make any before cutting the floats out and gluing them on :D
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Looking good there and not too much waste on the material. i like the Meccano idea. out of intrest where do you get your polystyrene from?
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I get styrene sheet, ply and metal tube/rod from 4D modelshop - http://www.modelshop.co.uk/ (London) or Lawrence Matthews - http://www.laurencemathews.co.uk/index.php?RNZ=749804 (Southend) but only because they're convenient for me to go there, I expect many art suppliers would have it...
...I've now made all those 'bits' and glued them onto the brass tube...when the araldite has set fully (tomorrow) I'll find out if it's possible to cut the tube leaving a 'bearing' in each of them without generating enough heat to unstick them :-\ Thought I'd try the 'Expo' drill with a cut off disc, might work if I cut a little at a time and allow it to cool.....
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I notice on looking at the website (Lawrence Matthews) no longer have styrene sheet, didn't have as good a range when I looked there last so maybe they stopped supplying it. Then again, they have ships fittings and I don't see those advertised on the page either.....
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It's really nice to see someone coming up with solutions for consistant repititious parts.
Very nice!
all the best
stuart
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It seems to be working, I've cut a few of them without problems and assembled one to try on the wheel.... now I just have to cut out the others and start on the floats (they could maybe use a bit of cleaning up before assembly and painting, I got glue everywhere... ??? ). I've also cut a length of brass tube the same as the bit in the wheel so as to get the correct spacing between the ends without having to build them on the wheel.... :)
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by the way, the bit on the end where the feathering rod will attach is a 10BA screw with a short length of brass tube and a nut on it, it will be removed before painting. I have brass tube that fits closely over this and am thinking of soldering bits of it onto the ends of brass rod (2mm? I think) to make the feathering rods...but that's a little way off yet
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I've successfully cut out and files down all those 'things' and started sticking them on the floats... this just might work - if I can make the rods good enough...
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Over the weekend I assembled all the floats, cut out the 'pins' to hold them on the wheels and made the part where the feathering rod attaches. To do the latter I drilled a hole in a piece of scrap styrene (same thickness as used for the rest of the wheel) to take a 10BA screw and fitted a short length (3mm) of brass tube on it secured with a 10BA nut, then cut the screw just in front of the nut and filed the end a bit. There are 12 of these.
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Now to the pins. The 10BA screws were about an inch long so I now have 12 three-quarter-inch-long pieces of 10BA threaded brass and found that by filing just a little on the end they will fit inside the pins (actually brass tube) so I intend to solder one in each of the pins so it can be secured with a 10BA nut. Which just leaves how to keep the other end in place...
...I discovered that the 'tacks' in carpet gripper rod would be ideal and could be soldered or epoxied into the tube to give a kind of long coach bolt but... as there's no way of using a lock washer the nut will have to be secured with thread-lock or araldite and if I have to remove it at some time, I won't be able to stop the pin revolving in the bearings as there'll be nothing to get hold of.
so I may as well solder a piece of threaded rod in both ends and buy another pack of 10BA nuts, at least one of them would then unscrew if needed...
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I've assembled one of the pins to see how difficult/easy it would be. One of the nuts was in place at the time so is now soldered on, the other is removeable. The effect is of a long 10BA bolt - what I wanted in the first place - but relatively inexpensive to make :D ...all I need now is to make another 11 of them...
Also painted the floats, bearings are covered with 'blu-tack' to keep the paint out, and fitted the brass pieces in one to see how it looks...
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Mick your 'bolts' look really good.
I'd be interested to hear how you went about the soldering looks neat.
Regards,
Kim
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What I did was....
Filed the end few threads down a bit so the piece of the 10BA screw would fit into the brass tube.
Took the piece of brass tube and put a little plumbers soldering flux into the ends with a toothpick.
Hammered a piece of plumbers solder flat (as it's very thick to start with) and cut into thin strips, put one in each end of the tube then put the filed down screws in.
Light the cooker and hold the brass tube over the flames with pliers until a little bit of silver shows where the threaded piece meets the brass tube.
On one of the ends I put the nut on first and screwed it up to the brass tube, that wasn't necessary really but does no harm as only one has to be removeable, the solder has fixed it firmly in place!
After soldering I put the nut on the other end and cut both 'excess' lengths of threaded brass off close to the nut using a cut-off disc in a mini drill. They are long enough to use again.
Finally, filed the ends flat as the cut-off disc tends to leave a little sharp point sticking out that was the last bit of brass holding it together, you know what I mean...
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I have now assembled all the floats and just have to make the rest of those long bolts but I need another pack of 10BA nuts which I can get from the shop on saturday. Also seem to have 'mislaid' one of the brass tubes and have no more tube to make another (probably the one I took to the shop last time to get the same size and either put it down somewhere or dropped it on the way home) so I'll get that too, possibly a few extra lengths as I have an idea how to make stanchions out of it.... ::)
For my next trick (other than those bolts) I suppose I'll have to figure out how I'm going to make the 'star-centre' and master rods, then the rest of the feathering rods - I already have an idea about that ;D
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What I did was....
Light the cooker and hold the brass tube over the flames with pliers until a little bit of silver shows where the threaded piece meets the brass tube.
Excellent Mick thanks for sharing...
My wife went nuts when i used the cooker to solder my wheels but it is a great way of getting constant heat.
Regards,
Kim
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Had a go at making the star centre (as I've seen it called in Paddle Wheels before) out of styrene, cut out four discs with the compass cutter then four strips and filed to shape, drilled holes to take brass tube and glued the whole lot together. I used 2mm styrene but looking at the finished (apart from drilling holes for the rods) item it may be too wide to get into the space between paddlewheel and sponson edge so I might just make another from 1.5mm
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...also made the master rods which will be glued into the holes in the star centre. They are 1.2mm brass rod with brass tube soldered on one end, cut down with the cut-off disc then another brass tube inserted in the end for strength and to give a smooth surface for the bearing (bit of brass tube on the float) to run in...
... I used a scrap piece of balsa and two nails to hold it together, drilled holes in the tube and put the rods into them. I tried to put the 'bearing-size' tube in at this point but couldn't get it all to stay together while soldering so had to settle for filing the inside of the tube out aftrwards and gluing the bearings in. As soon as the metal was hot enough to melt solder, the balsa burst into flames so I'll probably soak it in water for an hour or so beforehand next time! (this is trial and error in action ??? )
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Over the sunday I re-made the star centres from thinner styrene sheet and with the bit that the master rod goes into extended outside the circle (I think it looks better like that). I fitted the master rods so that, with the star centre actually on the paddleshaft the outer bearing is at the position of the float pivot bearing. It will of course be ahead of it when fitted on the ship and due to the distance between the 'feathering rod bearing and the pivot bearing on the float, it will push the float arm out a little bit. Some photos taken with the wheel in various positions and with the star centre about 5mm ahead of the paddleshaft show how it should work on the model...
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...there is room to move it forward a bit more if necessary but I think that looks about right. Moving it forward further would make the floats more vertical when they enter and leave the water - until at some point they either hit the wheel spokes or the feathering rods - and I have the feeling they shouldn't be too vertical or they won't provide any forward motion for part of the time they're in water (they won't provide any resistance to the engine either which is good in a way...but..) I feel they should enter and leave at an angle similar to a propellor blade so while moving downward and later upward, they'll be contributing something..... I may be completely wrong about that though!!!
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A lot of work done Mick, not be long till shes done?
Regards,
Kim
P.S. - even the little fish looks impressed :D
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Hopefully not too much longer, I have next week off work so should be able to get some done then, otherwise it's an hour or so after work with 'long' jobs done at the weekend when I have enough time to see them through. I'm going to get back to the wheel components at the weekend and probably complete them, try to make the funnel and boiler casing in the week and look into fitting the engine and battery at some stage too. For now I'm going to have a go at the bridge and wheelhouse, construction will be similar to the deck shelter...
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Didn't realise how complex and time-consuming the wheelhouse would be - still, it has to be done at some point, so it isn't wasted time.
Here's the incomplete item at a stage ready for painting before fitting windows and stuff...and propped on the ship in more-or-less the final position, just to see how it looks...
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Lovely work Mick!
All the best
stuart
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great looking work, would love to see a full ship view. :clap
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Thanks, I'll try to take one later but there isn't room where I have it at the time (on top of the TV to make more room to work on the parts) Have just put the first paint on the wheelhouse, needs another coat or two I think as the edges of the black styrene still show - but I didn't want the paint to run!
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... I've thought of a possible way to attach the star centres to the sponsons and still have them removeable, brass collets are soldered to brass strip (with the screw hole downwards!) which is bent to the shape shown... I found some old light switch boxes and plan to remove the threaded brass inserts that the screws go into, hopefully these can be epoxied into holes in the frame under the sponson and light switch screws cut to length and used to secure the whole assembly in place. The collet can then secure a short length of rod on which the feathering mechanism rotates..... let's see if I can build it!
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I made five of the feathering rods today and fitted one of them.... to my slight disappointment they're about 1.5mm too long :(
all isn't lost though, I can easily make the star centres again and this time drill the holes closer to the middle, it's much easier than making more rods and I'm running out of brass tube whereas I have plenty of styrene sheet.
For those who want to see the whole ship so far, I put a picture on photobucket - http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x66/mjt60a/new%20project/fullship01.jpg
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Done a bit more to the bridge, glazed the windows using bits of CD case, this covers all the interior wall including the door openings and the inner wall and doors will be stuck to it. Also made the decking for the bridge wings and stained it 'dirty' colour using water with a little black poster paint, when fully dry it will be stained with a used teabag to give it a bit more brown colour (although, if I hadn't done the sponson decks already I'd leave it grey, as it is now) I already traced the inner walls (on thin styrene, with a pin) before glazing and have made the side pieces and began painting them....
...on the paddlewheels front, I made 11 more of the long pins to retain the paddles but need 10x 10BA nuts before I can assemble them, still need to make the new smaller star centres and 5 more feathering rods - or just make 10 of the correct length!
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The bridge is looking really good Mick....
Where do you get the jewel CD cases? I haven't seen any for ages! And what glue do you use to stick them in place?
Regards
Eddy
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looking good, nice idea using the CD cases.
Eddy, at work we by them from CPC i think £10 will buy around 100. if you want further info let me know.
regards
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THe CD cases were ones I found dumped at work (did I mention I work for the council?) but I have bought them myself before, you can get them from Dixons, Morrisons (probably ASDA and Tesco too) PC World, Ryman.... probably pick some up cheap on Ebay...
They're styrene (like the canopy on an airfix aircraft kit) so just styrene cement - either liquid in a bottle or the usual sticky stuff in a tube will work, just need to keep it off the visible areas :o
ps...DVD+R cases are the same thing - I bought some for storing digital photos and they have the cases with them!
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Managed to find another model shop friday (in westcliff) they do mostly r/c cars/trucks and planes/helicopters but I did manage to get some more brass nuts - so I rebuilt the star centres and master rods to a smaller diameter. This time I've made the master rods of styrene with brass tube bearings as I notice in reality, they're not the same as the others but square/rectangular in section and look much heavier (assume they're balanced by having them 180 degrees apart on 3 cylinder engines or both together, 135 (?) degrees opposite either crank on diagonal twins - if that makes sense at all...) As I'm having independent drive from motors, they can't be balanced (might not make any real difference on the model) but the styrene ones are about the same weight as the other brass rods - I have some suitable brass I could have cut them from but they'd be about 5 times the weight...
Anyway, I assembled the port wheel just to see if it's going to work and it looks OK now, I'll need to make 5 more rods for the other one and intend to paint the new parts before finally fitting them on.
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Assembled the starboard wheel as well now - but it's much the same as the port one so didn't bother taking a picture...
Added the rail capping to the bridge, it's styrene painted Tamiya red-brown matt acrylic with dark oak woodstain/varnish (combined - hate using it on real wood, much prefer wood dye and clear varnish - but that's another subject) it turned out quite good so I may use that for the rail capping on the promenade deck and the masts when the time comes... need to paint a figure to be helmsman, get a ships wheel and binnacle and make the telegraphs before the roof can be fitted - probably won't bother with the speaking tubes and pigeon holes with rolled flags - I don't actually know what was in the wheelhouse and you can't see that well inside with the roof on anyhow!
*picture attached now!
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...I see in pictures of the ship as I'm building it, there are four 'tannoy' type speakers, one under each bridge wing, one on the front of the promenade deck between the stairways and one on the deck house... I'm considering using these to make them ;)
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Latest bits and pieces.....
I don't seem to be able to get anything done 'after work' these days, I'm just too tired and don't trust myself to do anything intricate....so it all happens on saturday/sunday mornings....
Bridge/wheelhouse - went to the shop to get some fittings and came back with just a steering wheel, they don't seem to have anything much in 1/48th so had a go at making the telegraphs and pedestal (for want of the correct term) for the wheel to go on. Used mostly styrene tube and sheet of various diameters/thicknesses. The larger areas were then covered in silver tape and smaller ones painted silver before the whole thing is painted with yellow translucent glass paint (for making fake stained glass windows) I feel the result, though not ideal, is better than gold paint (even the humbrol one called polished brass) The steering fitting is made using styrene tubes (three diameters that fit into each other) and a pointy thing off the bottom of a firework - I just knew those had a modelling use! - pointy thing is painted an industrial grey colour, like streetlamps and railway signal gantries, the cylinder at the top is treated the same as the telegraphs...
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Paddlewheels... Also made the 5 other feathering rods for the starbd wheel (well, started on them anyhow) I made a new 'bodge-up' frame thingy to hold them while soldering and it works much better than the old one, which caught fire and nothing much was left of it :o
Hopefully, the pictures are self explanatory...
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...next, the tubes are cut using a cut-off disc in the expo drill so there's a 'ring' of brass tube left on the end of each rod - which the bearing will go into ;D
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Love the telegraph Mick, very nicely done!
One thing concerns me about the feathering rods though, if you use a cutting disc to slice them off it will be very easy to get too much heat into the brass tube and melt the solder!
Regards
Eddy
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It worked OK on the other ones, I don't think it will get hot enough to melt the solder but even so, I cut a bit, let it cool, cut a bit more etc. until it's done - this is because it gets too hot to hold fairly quickly if I try to do it all in one go.
One thing I did find is that if there's a lot of solder (and there is on some of the joints) the disk wears away rapidly.
This is the result of cutting away the excess brass tube...
*edit - now I see the picture enlarged like that I see some of the ends are thicker than others but they can easily be filed down a bit more, plus the solder will need cleaning up a bit... I'm sure they'll be fine ;D
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Hi PD's....Mick just an idea....make a simple jig of two rods...close fitting to the holes in the feathering arm disk ends...then fix both ends of the rods securely in another fixture
You can then add all of the feathering arms....add a little bakers soldering flux & gently heat each end with a micro gas burner - you will end up with a much finer & uniform solder joint ......Derek :hammer
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I think that would work very well, they're all done now but something to consider when I make another set (and I will, having made one set like this, non feathering wheels would seem a step backwards on any future models!) I must invest in a miniature gas torch, I only have a full size one - hence using the gas cooker, it's a bit more controlable...
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Just a few little but time consuming things done this week, made a couple of 'double' telegraphs for the bridge wings, I don't know if that's correct for the ship but as there's a capstan* both ends (so far as I can tell) and I only see one** telegraph each side of the bridge, assume it'd be a double sided one...
Painted and fitted the steering wheel. for some reason I was thinking it'd have a more modern-looking 'all metal' one but that's all I could find (and anyway,no photos to confirm what type should be there)...
Painted and assembled the feathering mechanisms... Now, here's the thing - if I'd thought this through I should have made the frames for the wheels narrower, then the feathering mechanism would fit inside the overhanging ends of the floats. As it is, the frames are very close to the outside (and inside) edges so I need to see if all this stuff will fit in the paddle drum :-[ I think it will but may have to find another way of attaching the stub axle for the star centre (had planned to use brass collets fixed onto the removable side belting) ....
*capstan both ends.... as there are 'holes' for anchor chains, I guess it's a windlass at the bow but on photos there seems to be a capstan on top of it (some type of windlass I hadn't seen before maybe, with an extra vertical winch drum ?)
**one telegraph each side... or is there? I've only seen one photo showing the bridge wing in any detail (last edition of paddle wheels) I only see one telegraph and there's a 'tube' under it which I assume has the mechanical linkage inside, but looks like there's another tube next to it so maybe they had an engine room tele on there also for ease of mooring? can't really tell as there is a crew member in front of it...
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It's coming on really nicely!
When you get to this stage I usually find that you have to make a choice between what you can actually learn from photos and plans and what is believable. It all looks great to me. I wish you luck with the stars - I always struggle with them!
all the best
stuart
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This is what I made to support the stub axle... (picture)
the ends will be trimmed off, drilled and bolted to frames under the sponson. This part has to be removeable to allow fitting/removal of the wheels.
As I feared, the meccano collets are too wide to fit between the paddlebox wall and the star centre, so...
I thought I might be able to file them thinner as there's plenty of metal either side of the grub screws - but it was taking forever.... I bought one of those 'flexi-discs' from the model engineer exhibition some years ago and on the demo going on there it was shown how it works on rusty nails and screws that won't come out...so I tried that...it ground about a third of the collet away in five seconds flat!
With both sides done I soldered the now much thinner collet to a strip of brass and bent it to fit under the sponson....still a bit too tight...but I have some alternative solutions...
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...I could grind down the top of the collet so it fits behind the paddlebox wall....
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the stub axle has a small ridge soldered to the end to stop the star centre moving toward the wheel (picture), but having now tested it, I don't think it will. There's a little bit of play in the bearings but the master rod only has the bearing one end so there's much less and it seems to just find its own centre and stay there. if I did away with that ridge there's no need for the collet, the stub axle could be just soldered to the brass strip, nothing to fit inside the paddle box - and plenty of room ;D
So I'll try making one tomorrow and see how it goes...
By the way, by just holding a bit of rod in the star centre with the assembled wheel fitted on the ship (to see what the best position would be for it) I found the feathering works perfectly, soon as I get something rigged up I'll take a video of it rotating
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I just made one without the collet, the stub axle is just inserted into the star centre as the belting is screwed onto the side. Seems to work ok ;D
http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x66/mjt60a/new%20project/?action=view¤t=PICT0031.flv
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a great video and such a simple idea. :beer
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I've now attached the belting to the brass strip (with araldite, after roughening both surfaces) and drilled and filed the ends. Also fixed wooden blocks with threaded brass inserts from old light switch boxes, under the sponsons to screw the brass strip into....
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while waiting for the adhesive to dry I also added the bridge fittings and started trying to make a binnacle...
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this weekend has been a bit busy for me so not so much progress but I did manage to drill twelve holes in the hull, just above the waterline ( :-\ ) and twelve more in the frames of the sponson decks, then bent some pieces of wire from the front of an old halogen heater to fit into and between these pairs of holes. These will be epoxied in place then painted - along with the whole underside of the sponson decks...
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I've now painted the underside of the sponsons, painted the binnacle after fitting the balls, and just now glued in it the wheelhouse, started painting a couple of crewmen to put there before fitting the roof.
Looking through one of the spares boxes, I found I have a bag of passengers and staff for 50th scale model rail that I must've bought about 20 years ago at a show, knowing I'd need them one day, they're not as good as preiser ones (still have some of the used ones I bought) but after a bit of cleaning up and painting they should be OK. Also bought some new preiser figures, some seated and the 'statesmen' set - mainly to get the uniformed man to go on the bridge wing, and some chairs - as I can't see me being able to build my own - which looked a bit small to me but they do fit the seated figures...
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Hi Mick ,
I really like the single chairs - do you have any more info on the supplier?
My Dad's Atalanta is covered in Slater's people some have had plastercine added to change their appearance .. a lot of extra work but makes them a little different.
Regards,
Kim
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They're these - http://www.modelshop.co.uk/product/1%3A50_basic_chair_4_leg_Pk10_MU20500 - don't know what postage would be as I just go there and see what they have on the shelf.
Seems they come from this supplier - http://www.schulcz.de/international/web/za/home-za.html - but I don't have much success using their site - there's no pictures!
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...My Dad's Atalanta is covered in Slater's people some have had plastercine added to change their appearance ...
I've done that myself before but using milliput or humbrol model filler - and in 25th scale, don't know how it would look if I tried on these figures!
...still, I may give it a go, some of the used ones were stuck on a station so are a bit damaged anyway...
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....started painting a couple of crewmen ....
...and here they are, one on the left is the preiser and on the right is one from the set I bought about 20 years ago and don't remember the manufacturer
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Just one question Mick, why is the guy on the right holding a chicken drumstick? ;)
Regards
Eddy
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That's a good question! I have no idea what that is but it must've been intended to be painted a different colour, I didn't notice it until I started (or I'd have sanded it away) but as it's between the wheel and the helmsmans body I just painted over it - it won't show :)
Incidentally, he was holding up a short stick with a flag on it in his right hand, maybe it's supposed to be another one all wrapped around the stick
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Hi Mick,
I really like the effect on your telegraphs with the translucent yellow glass paint, I'm assuming it is available from good art stores, is there a certain make you use?
regards
Clark
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Hello Mick. The mystery figures are Slaters Miniatures O gauge railway figures (about 1/43 to 1/48th scale and are still available quite cheeply in UK. With the flash cleaned up and painted they are quite reasonable. They do two sets, standing and seated passengers and a railway workers set which for some reason are slightly taller and in overalls with various tools in their hands which can be cut off. They are moulded in hard styrene plastic so they can be cut up and repositioned to give a wider variety of poses. regards, walter.
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Hello Mick. The mystery figures are Slaters Miniatures O gauge railway figures....
Thanks for that, I had no idea what they were - I haven't seen them anywhere since I bought these ones...
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Hi Mick,
I really like the effect on your telegraphs....is there a certain make you use?....
I used 'Pebeo VITRAIL yellow no 14' which I bought from a pretty good (ie. large place with loads of stock) art supplier, seems the stuff you used to be able to get from every B&Q, Homebase, etc, is no longer available..
it is meant for making imitation coloured glass lampshades, windows, jars... and is usually used with self adhesive lead strip..
I used it over chrome-like self adhesive tape, and on small areas or complex curves, humbrol silver paint (for some reason, I find the silver doesn't show the chrome flakes like the brass/gold/bronze paints do)
you could use that 'bare-metal-foil' that model car builders use or, as I did, aluminium tape for pipe insulation from pretty much any DIY store... :)
http://www.craftcellar.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d50_vitrail_glass_paint.html
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Hi Mick,
Thanks for the info
Clark
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Spent this (last) weekend correcting a couple of faults which had developed... :-\
I'd put lock-nut on all the nuts on the wheels and was about to fit them more-or-less permanently (unless they get damaged) when I found the outer sides of the paddleboxes had developed an inward curve... don't know why, maybe because only the outside is painted and has shrunk? Whatever the reason, I noticed also that the bottom edge is slightly above the top of the belting - no doubt that's because the wood of the sponson deck is between the bottom of the sponson cabins and the frame supporting the belting. I should have allowed for that but didn't think of it until now.
So I cut a couple of strips to stick on the bottom of the paddleboxes with another piece overlapping the two, thinking it would also stiffen it enough to correct the inward curve but it didn't make any real difference so I had to araldite a strip of brass onto it too (after roughening both surfaces) All looks OK now and the wheels have been fitted. Next, figure out exactly how to fit the motors/gearbox in such a way as not to amplify the noise it makes!
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attached the wires and capacitors to the motors this morning....
I noticed that, looking at the double gearbox, one half is a mirror image of the other which means the motors have to run in opposite directions for both wheels to turn the same way, and the 12 volt motors I got to replace the original 3 volt ones have a '+' next to one of the terminals... I've seen that before on the more expensive 'racing buggy' motors and it usually means the brushes are angled to give better performance going forward - and they don't run in reverse very well at all, so I opened one to have a look inside... it has simple copper wipers, not the spring loaded carbon type I've seen before (and which can get damaged if they run the wrong way) so I thought it should be OK.
So I painted a spot on each of the driveshafts and connected the motors to the battery... the port side driveshaft turns slightly faster when going forward (ie. with the starbd motor connected in reverse) I thought it could just be a difference in the motors or more friction in the starbd gearbox (they're very old and haven't been lubricated at all yet) so I tried reversing the power and found the starbd shaft is a little faster when in reverse... so it seems like the motors do run better in one direction than the other - but the difference in this case is so slight that I don't think it will cause too much of a problem...
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...one other thing, possibly the most pointless yet, I added two portholes to each of the paddleboxes where waverley has them - so the passengers can see the wheels turning!
...actually, so if I decide to put lights inside there and run the model at night, it will illuminate the paddles ;)
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I do like that idea. If the paddle wheels are brass then the reflection would be amplified and also diffused by the water. :)
I shall look into this possibility on my Waverley.
Cheers
Ken
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Well, it's been a while since any progress was made and that's because I've been spending every bit of free time I had working on it. Now the weather has warmed up a bit I've seen just how much work needs doing on the garden and house repairs :-[
...all I've managed to do so far is; fit two meccano pulleys to the gearbox shafts. The shafts are a smaller diameter than meccano so I cut short lengths of brass tube that fit in the pulleys with a hole filed in the side for the retaining screws to pass through and grip the shafts. It's not perfect but it will probably work, if not I could either use different pulleys that do fit the shafts, try to get a piece of thinwall tube to fit between the shaft and tube that's in there now (don't know if that would work as they're actually quite close to the right size) or... use some other meccano ones I have that don't have the central brass bush with the retaining screw, I could drill them out and solder them on a couple of brass inserts for 'huco' or graupner flexible couplings with the correct size hole for the gearbox shaft.
Also just started making an alternative funnel as the styrene one is too rough to use, new one is the cardboard tube from a roll of kitchen towels with resin and tissue over it for strength and water resistance, it is looking OK so far ;)
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This week, after letting the resin set properly, I gave it a coat of P38 and sanded it - looked good. Then a coat of primer - one or two areas could use a little more filler but it'll be fine, just need to do that before cutting to the correct length and adding the hoops and eyebolt-type things where the stays connect the it can be painted...
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Sounds as though it's coming together nicely Mick - how about some pics? pretty please!!
All the best
Stuart
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Ok, here's how it looks at the moment, the shiny bits are where the primer is over resin and is in fact perfectly smooth, it's the 'shadows' that need filling and the whole thing needs shortening by about an inch - more at the back so it 'leans' toward the stern...
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Good idea for the funnel with the cardboard tube...must be very strong & light...will keep that in mind for the future.
cheers
Clark
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sanded and primered a bit more and fitted the hoops, these are from evergreen strip, one end is tapered by dragging across sandpaper then wrapped around the funnel, cut to slightly over length and glued using styrene cement on the tapered end. When set, superglue was applied to the edge allowing capillary action to draw it in. Then it's filed/sanded to give a constant thickness at the join and any bits of superglue carefully sanded away...
Also have now cut it to length and angle of tilt, araldited pieces of balsa inside and marked positions of the funnel stay attachment rings, plus where the whistle and escape pipe thingy will go...
...to get the hoops straight (as straight as I can, that is) wrapped a piece of printer paper around the tube and check that it overlays itself without the edge forming a kind of spiral, if you can imagine what I mean, then drew around it in the position of the lower edge of the hoop, this gives something to line it up with before putting the superglue on
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made and fitted the stay attachment rings, they are the copper wire from telephone cable (found on the ground next to a distribution case up the street) wrapped round a very small screwdriver and twisted (see picture) then cut off. the twisted part is epoxied into holes drilled in the funnel....
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...also had a go at the 'naval-type' top using styrene parts, doesn't look too bad, I'll take a pic later when the glue sets...
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Nice way of making the stay attachment rings Mick - Now why didn't I think of doing it that way, instead of always looking for the most complicated method possible? :(
Regards
Eddy
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Hi PD's.......Mick says .... they are the copper wire from telephone cable (found on the ground next to a distribution case up the street)
:oops ....I hope the neighbours still have a telephone service Mick..... :shhh
Derek
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...also had a go at the 'naval-type' top using styrene parts, doesn't look too bad, I'll take a pic later when the glue sets...
..gave up on that idea as I'd already made one before for the 'old' funnel, decided to just hacksaw it off and after a bit of sanding, stuck it on the new funnel, it'll do...
*don't worry, telephone service is fine, they always leave bits of wire and cable lying around every time someone changes their supplier :D
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started on the boiler casing/fiddley/whatever-it's-called but is just a black styrene box at the moment, not sure it's worth a photo until I make a bit more progress
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had a bit of a problem with the boiler casing..... I marked it all up, drilled out the holes for the railings (as I assembled them on the 'old' boiler casing I had to use it as a template for the holes - but all OK there), marked the position of the funnel and cut a large hole with the compass cutter, just in case I fit a smoke unit in the hull later. When I test fitted it together, the funnel was* too far forward so I painstakingly repaired the funnel hole and cut a new one further back.
Now, thing is, when I test-fitted the funnel, I hadn't yet made the box structure at the back..... when I fitted that to the funnel, it now looked too far back! :-\ ...seems I had it right the first time (I had actually measured it and should have stuck with it until the funnel was ready) ...so I removed the 'repair' I'd made and it's OK now - but has an eliptical hole instead of circular. I thought about 'repairing' it again but the box at the back covers it so I might not bother....
...anyway, a pic of the real one and the model, just need to paint it...
*that is, it looked like it was too far forward!
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by the way, I only have that one picture as a guide to the shape of the structure, no accurate info so I roughly drew up this as how it'd be on the model...
*let's try with the file attached :-[
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as it turned out, I decded not to make it as wide as originally planned (same as the diameter of the funnel), didn't quite look right so I made the outer sides of the box as wide as the rear funnel stays which is about the same as the water tank. added a few details, not certain if they're all accurate though and sprayed it all in primer...
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I've now painted the funnel - but it's come out very shiny so may have to use clear matt or something over it, looks good though ;D
I've also made some of the fittings for it and the 'boiler casing' and tried it all together, looks pretty good, better when they're painted I expect....
...still have a few bits to fit on before painting.
I suspect the boiler casing should be a little longer as I see from studying the photos again (plus a postcard that was on ebay) it extends some way under the bridge but I'm not going to change it now, just make the white box on the front a bit narrower, otherwise, if I did make it longer (ie make another one but longer) it wouldn't line up with the part below on the main deck which is visible through the open doors... looking at the postcard, that too extends further forward than I made it on the model. Still, took me this long to spot that and I've been studying pictures for a year so it probably won't be noticed ;D
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The brass pipe at the rear of the funnel, I find difficult to see in detail in any pictures I have but appears in some to be just a straight pipe, in others to have an 'umbrella-handle' like bend in the top and still others to have a reinforced rim (which is what I went for)
The copper one to the left (port side) of it is thicker and I've seen pictures where it's about half the height of the funnel as well as ones where it's like I've made it. The top still needs to be made and fitted and far as I can tell has a triangular thing on it, like you see on the exhaust of tractors and JCBs, maybe a diesel generator was added at some point???
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still haven't decided what kind of 'top' should go on that third pipe.....
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Mick, could the third pipe be the whistle. R.G.Y.
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Nice work on the funnel Mick. Did the real ship have a different funnel livery at one time? Just wondering about the extra ring on the red part.
Meant to ask, did you resin & tissue inside the funnel tube as well, or just the outside?
Clark
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Mick, could the third pipe be the whistle. R.G.Y.
the front pipe is the whistle - doesn't seem to have a fog-horn that I can see.
a different funnel livery? I wondered about that too but every picture I've seen is the 'red funnel' one. the second (lowest) hoop has ring bolts for the funnel stays too but all pictures I have show them attached to the top rings.
I haven't treated the inside at all yet, maybe I should have, thought I might pour resin into it when finished which will help attach the various pipes but could be tricky to avoid getting any on the outside!
Think I'll probably go for the conical 'stove pipe' top on the third pipe
Have just painted the red on them today, will do the black tops and brass on the whistle tomorrow
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I've now painted the funnel - but it's come out very shiny so may have to use clear matt or something over it....
used the clear matt that I used on the hull, it looks better (and doesn't show all fingerprints where it's been handled like it did when it was gloss) but the red looks a couple of shades lighter now >:( as black looks a bit greyish when it's matt, but it'll have to do - maybe I should have bought a darker red to start with...... used the same stuff on the water tank too as it now looks a different colour.
made the conical top for that mystery pipe on the funnel and just waiting for the matt varnish stuff to fully set before picking it up and fitting the pipes...
put the ring bolts for funnel stays and the bulkhead lights on the boiler casing, soon as the adhesive sets it can be painted then the whole lot can be fixed together!
*actually, looking back over the last few posts, the colour of the funnel now is about the same as that pic of the 'real' ships funnel I posted so maybe it's more correct than I thought...
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Hi Mick,
I have just painted a MacBraynes funnel...same colours red/black top. I have been told that at the start of a season, the red was fresh & bright, then dulled down over the summer, fading & going slightly orangey. So a few different red tones could be used & no-one could say you are wrong ;D ( thats my excuse anyway!)I used satin varnish & pleased with result. Think the slightly faded look is more realistic.
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thanks for the 'moral support'! I have to agree though, looking back at those photos from when it was freshly painted red as a london bus, it was a bit overbearing in that colour 8)
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I've 'stuck' these bits together, need to make a couple more details, paint the surface of the boiler casing then fit the railings.... I used a couple of press stud halves tor the wheels that appear (in photos) to be on top of the water tank....
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built, painted and fitted the rest of the details, railings are not yet glued as I need to paint the top surface first. vents are from another model and only put there to see how it would look (might need to be a bit bigger but the same size would do I suppose...) and I haven't made the deck yet so scrap of ply and a paint jar are holding it all in place for now!
I think the closeness of the top of the funnel to the camera confuses the auto-focus as I couldn't get a clear aerial view...
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it's looking really good Mick, well done....
I can't remember, but what size is the model? Length and beam?
Regards
Eddy
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It's 38 3/4 inches long and 6 inches wide in the middle (the hull, that is) about 11 inches across the paddle boxes - about 48th scale
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I have a couple of rolls of lead 'flashing' recovered from when the roof had to be repaired, it's a bit dirty with cement and stuff stuck on it but I plan to use it to ballast the hull, so I unrolled some on a smooth concrete floor an hammered it flat then cut it into pieces with shears to fit between the frames in the hull. It's quite thin so will need to be two or three layers thick. I'll secure it by pouring mixed resin over it. I'll have to test it in water to get the actual amount needed. The 'bow section should be fairly easy, the main section will obviously need the batteries, motors etc. in place.... so we'll see how that turns out! Won't do it tonight as it's getting a bit late and I have to be up early for work :(
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...tried with three plates in the smaller compartment and two in the long triangular one, thought the long thin area would be less 'buoyant' already. Put it in water and the bow was almost clear of the water, but the rear end about right so made another plate for the front compartment, looks about right now (allowing for the weight of the resin and few remaining details to be added). Seems very stable too and rights itself very quickly if tilted and released....though of course, this part doesn't have the sponsons, funnel and superstructure on it!
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Hi Mick,
The bow sits really well in the water.
Meant to ask you before, how did you find the "trimline" to work with? I am torn between trying it and masking/painting a waterline.
Clark
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I found the trimline easy enough to use, you can remove and reposition it providing you don't press it down until happy with it's placing. I didn't take the chance it would be waterproof (it claims 'fuel proof' on the container ) and sprayed over it with clear lacquer!
I did find that if you stretch it while applying it will shrink back in a couple of days hence a few small (unnoticable?) gaps at the corners but I think clear lacquer stops this as they've got no bigger since spraying it.
I certainly don't think I could accurately mask such a thin line or prevent paint bleeding under it!
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Tried to make a watertight seal between the two sections using silicone bath sealer which is then scraped off with a piece of styrene that has a tiny V-shape cut in the edge, the idea being to leave an extremely small bead of silicone, hopefully small enough not to cause a space between the two parts when it is compressed. I have yet to see if it will work.
Also made a ring of it around the fixing bolts as a second line of defence.
If all else fails, the compartment with the attachment wing-nuts in will be watertight and contain nothing else so, if it floods should only cause the ship to sit a little lower in the water and not sink!
Also had a go at making boiler room vents, I had to buy the materials but when finished they'll be closer to the correct size than anything I've seen 'ready made' so far...
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....once the glue has set I filed/sanded the back of the cowl to try to make the styrene tube blend in smoothly and added P38 at the sides and below to create a curved join, then sprayed with primer to see how rough it looked (always find it looks OK when the different areas are in their original colours -cowl...transparent. tube...white, P38...pinkish-grey) only when it's painted do I see where more work is needed! 3 more attempts later, still not perfect but it'll do. drilled holes and fitted curved pieces of brass wire (did this now because I didn't want three or four coats of primer on them - they're thick enough as they are) then sprayed the whole thing white. Not all that happy with the appearance of the inside of the cowl. I could have 'dremelled' it smooth(er) but decided to use some of the mesh I got for the railings and make 'bird-proof screens' which can be attached on the ridge inside....might have that done next time :)
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here's how they turned out.... I like them ;D
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test-fitted them on the ship..... there are problems but it's late (for me - work in the morning) so more about that when I have time.... :-X
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The problems.....
These vents are a little larger than they should be - they're the closest thing I could find to correct size (and better I think, than the largest styrene 'ready made' ones which were too small) but still a little bit bigger than would be ideal, particularly the down tubes but they too were the nearest thing the shop had. I had some I'd bought years ago that was perfect but not enough left to make two vents and couldn't find that exact size.....
also, I noticed the boiler casing (fiddely?) was shorter front to rear than the real thing and the result of both these is the front funnel stays wrap around the vents just a little. :(
(1) I could leave it like that (they're elastic so it doesn't affect anything) and with the bridge in place it won't really show...
(2) I could move the attachment points inboard a couple of millimeters...
(3) I could fit attachment points on the bottom edge of the wheelhouse...
Or (4) make more vents the correct size - if I ever find more suitable parts to use.
Having had all night to think it over I decided to do number (1) and as they are removeable, do number (4) at a later time if I really can't live with them ;D
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I take you mean the down tubes are too big in diameter Mick?
I have quite a few various size styrene tubes here, mostly offcuts, so if you let me know what diameter and length you need I'll see if I have something suitable....
Regards
Eddy
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i kept looking and could not work it out until your post. your option 1 then 4 is pragmatic till you find the items you need.
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Hi Mick,
I would do as you intend, I'm sure the right materials will turn up...the vents you have made look smashing though 8)
Clark
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Mick!
If you tell me what size you want I can turn down and drill out some PVC for you?
All the best
Stuart
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I take you mean the down tubes are too big in diameter Mick?
I have quite a few various size styrene tubes here, mostly offcuts, so if you let me know what diameter and length you need I'll see if I have something suitable....
Regards
Eddy
Mick!
If you tell me what size you want I can turn down and drill out some PVC for you?
All the best
Stuart
Thanks, that's very generous. I'll see at the weekend if I can get the styrene domes to use for the cowls first, I have a feeling the next size down will be too small though and the thinner tube (as I wanted to use) will look too thin with these relatively large ones... but I'll see at the weekend.
Thanks again :)
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Made a start on the motor/gearbox mountings this morning, photos later if it works!
...this is what I have in mind....
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....bit by bit, it becomes reality!
...though I have no real idea yet how I'm going to make the silicon parts ???
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Hi PD's .....Mick ....if you were to take your balsa framed setup as below....added ends to each.....then an injection hole and an air escape......you could inject silastic which may provide the resiliant mount that you describe..... :shhh ....Derek
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Here's what I eventually did....
constructed the sides, ends and base from balsa sheet (planned to use a rectangular 'bar' and cut a groove in it but didn't have any left) also cut a piece to fit into the hole in the base, covered it with cling film and secured with pins.
spread bath sealant in a thinnish layer into the thing working it into the corners wih a bit of styrene and let it set.
removed the pins and centre block from the base - surprisingly, the cling film came out easily, I thought it would stick! filled the casing to about half way and sank the meccano strips into it, still attached to the motor/gearbox piece to ensure they'd be level, let that set.
removed the plate with the motors/gearbox from its legs and filled the casings to the top, allow to set.
cut the top pieces from 1/8th ply, roughened the top edges of the casings then glued and clamped over night (forgot to take a picture) this is in case the silicon should detach from the balsa
It all seems good and is exactly what I was after so re-attached the motors and have just 'araldited' the whole lot into the hull, should be set in about 20 hours?
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this is how it all looks in the hull....
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....and this is how it looks connected to a battery - http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x66/mjt60a/new%20project/?action=view¤t=princess_elizabeth_model_motors01.mp4 - might be a bit fast but I have various different pulleys to try on it if need be, have to wait and see how it goes in water and with a speed control!
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not much to show this time, I made a frame to hold the battery in place. the wood was 'delivered' during the night last november 5th with a large firework attached and the strap is from an old suitcase, used (I think) to fix items inside the lid. the frame will be glued to the base of the hull just behind the motors....
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...here it is inside with the battery in it....
...from time to time, especially when working on areas that, though essential make no difference to the appearance of the model, I like to put all the parts together just to remind myself what it's all for ;D
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Hi Mick,
Looking great in the last pic with all the pieces together. She was a nicely proportioned ship.
Will there be a deckhouse under the bridge?
Clark
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glad you like it, I've always had a liking for this ship even though I'd only seen it in a static role as a bar/restaurant, minus engines and boiler, and with one or two awful-looking additions to provide covered accomodation!
in no picture I've seen, or even in that static role, does/did the ship have a deckhouse under the bridge, instead the bridge and wheelhouse stands up on posts like those usually seen under the ends of a steamers bridge - so that's how I'll be making mine - should look good without the 'tamiya' paint pot under it ;D
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started on the interior, all guesswork as I've never actually seen it! also cut sheets of 1mm ply for the decks.
Once I have an idea how much weight this will add I can think about ballast in the hull...
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little bit more progress on the interior, also made the roof of the deck house/stairway and engine room ventilators - and had another (longer this time) trip on waverley, london tower pier to southend.....weather was rubbish again but less cold, shame it wasn't on friday - still it was good and on arrival at southend the queue of waiting passengers stretched back to the rail station...
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had a go at making a 'representation' (not sure exactly what they're like) of the two lighthouse-shape ventilators on the promenade deck. the only photos I have don't show them very clearly and looking at pictures of other ships shows several different shapes..... so this is what I've come up wth...
....the tops were made by heating styrene sheet over a candle then poking different diameter rods into it, pins worked best for this scale!
the resulting funnel shape is then cut out, filed to a circular shape, thinned a bit by rubbing on sandpaper then glued on. they should have a ball shape on the top so I'll addd that soon as I find something suitable...
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been a bit ill for the last week (nothing serious, still been going to work) so not much more done at all, but I did finish these vent thingies. for the ball top, I used some plastic balls with a hole through, not sure what they're meant for but they came with a billing boats 'sea star' kit with the included fittings - I think they were for threading onto part of the rigging, some type of aerial maybe? anyhow pictures show these vents and the engine room ones stuck on with blu-tack... they'll do
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carried out a few floatation tests. blocked the holes where the bow section fits with blu-tack, put servos, rx and batteries in, cut pieces of lead and put them in, got the hull (aft/main section) sitting just right - then realised I need to do this with all the superstructure in place! Put it on and.... :-\ way too much ballast, lucky I didn't glue it in!
took most of the ballast out again and it seems to be ok, didn't see any leaks even pushing it down until the water is up to main deck.
then attached the bow section (barely fits in the 'tank') and tried rocking it to see how long 'til it sits upright again, very impressed, it's actually quite stable though much heavier than I expected ;D hopefully the masts and railings won't add too much more weight or I'll have to take the rest of the lead out and move the batteries..... think it'll be ok though...
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Looking good! - So how close are the sea trials?
All the best
Stuart
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how long 'til sea trials? I get very little done due to work and when I said 'put the servos and rec in' I meant just dropped them loose into the hull (hence the list to port on the first two pictures) need to make a plate of some kind to fit them in and make and connect the rudder...
...it'll be a while longer before I can take it to southend...
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This (last) weekend I bought some 1.5mm thinwall brass tube and had a go at making railings using 0.8mm brassed wire and an electric soldering iron and radio solder..... I used a cut-off disc in the expo drill to cut slots in the tube and laid the wire into them. doesn't look too bad after cleaning up with a miniature file then painting (the ball joints are represented by adding spots of two part epoxy resin with a pin before painting)
Ideally it should be 1mm tube and 0.5 wire but the wire seemed a bit 'easily damaged' on a model that would be handled, transported etc. so I'll probably stick with the 1.5/0.8.....
...I'll see how it looks with the wooden rail capping on - when I figure out how to make it!
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...I'll see how it looks with the wooden rail capping on - when I figure out how to make it!
Nice structure Mick. I like welding brass tubes together as it make a sturdy assembly. The wire should be multi core to allow for bending and the brass rails could be used for the earth connection.
The capping rail is easy enough if you make and glue the 45 degree joints first. (there is going to be hole in these joints at the corners). When dry, I mark the tops of the stanchions with a felt tip pen and place the capping rail on top to mark the hole positions. These are then drilled to a tight fit half way through and the assembly is then pushed on with some super glue.
Hope this helps
Ken
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I had forgotten something which should have been done before painting....
every picture I've seen of this ship shows a canvas (?) sheet attatched to the railings over the front of the promenade deck. The PBM model has pre-shaped styrene for this and I like how it looks and wanted something similar-looking.
After two abortive attempts I settled on this....
Covered the railings with cooking foil and pressed it gently against them so the rails and stanchions show through a bit... cut a piece from an old ( not too old) shirt and ironed it smooth then trimmed it to a little bigger than is needed.
hold it in place over the foil using clothes pegs to start with and apply sanding sealer until the cloth is soaked through and lays in the depressions in the foil. allow to dry (once it's had sealer applied to a fairly large area, clothes pegs can be removed and it stays in position)
when it's dry to the touch remove the foil from the railings and attempt to remove the cloth, allow the 'inside' to complete drying (this causes it to roll up but it won't matter!) the cloth can then be trimmed to the required size without fraying and should 'fit' onto the railings. I left some 'tabs' on the top edge which can be bent over and glued to the bottom of the rail capping later.
I then painted the cloth matt white, as the saeler turned it a bit yellow and when dry, stitched the ends to the end stanchions with white cotton.
I haven't glued any of it together yet as the rail capping isn't quite finished but it looks OK so far ;D
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not much progress this weekend, went to the shoeburyness model rail show at southend, got a few things I thought may come in useful one day (10ba screws and nuts, aliphatic resin wood glue and 1.32 scale passenger figures) and another coil of 0.8mm brassed wire.
spent this morning making 'preparations' for the next run of railings on the front of the promenade deck. this consisted of making a paper template, marking the positions of the stanchions then transferring to a ply template so I can drill through the holes into the deck, and assemble the railings on the template - they should then fit in the deck! also I can use it to make the rail capping later...
...should be able to just turn it over for the other side (it does seem to fit so should be OK....
pictures when I have some results....
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...the ply template turned out to be too thin to hold the stanchions firmly enough so used it to drill the holes into a scrap piece of chip board (usually used when drilling through things) and constructing one of them on that instead, then used the ply to ensure the tops all lined up...
...having got the three rails soldered in, thought it'd be best to check it fits on the model before bothering to clean it up with files and continue.... it fitted perfectly ;D
...now I can think about how I'm going to represent the boarding gates, on waverley, they look the same as the stanchions (more or less) so I'll probably just cut some more of those....
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tidied up the solder joints on the railings this morning but haven't done anything else model related, been busy at work clearing snow and spreading grit in the perishing cold, too tired when I get home to do anything but sleep!
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How do you solder the railings? With a flame or an iron?
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I'm using an electric iron and electronics solder, seems to be strong enough for this as there's no load on it at all. I think the iron is about 25 watts, had it years now and can't remember but it probably had details on the packaging...
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this boarding gate has been giving me problems.... the only close-up I have appears to show a single wide gate but I'm sure it was in two parts like waverleys, maybe it was altered at some time and I have been looking at an 'older' photo.
the first pic shows this older photo and in the second I tried to digitally remove the inner gate to make the outer one more clear.
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Because of he way the model opens for tramsportation, access to the battery and motors etc I can't make it this way or the rail capping wouldn't be supported (one end is attached to the loading platform) so Ive made something else instead.....
.....I'll see how it looks painted in the morning
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by the way, comparing the two sets of pictures, I can see how even 1mm stanchions are actually much too thick at this scale but I find it difficult enough using the 1.5 tube, trying to do these with 0.8 (stanchions) and 0.5 (rails) would be beyond my skill and eyesight!
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well, doesn't look too bad but I haven't glued any of the railings down so far and haven't ruled out 'james lane display models' stachions just yet...
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I made and fitted the rail capping now, here's it on the ship.... not bad I suppose...
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I made and fitted the rail capping now, here's it on the ship....
...oh yes, and the canvas! that was a bit of a pain in fact as once it's shaped over the horizontal rails it doesn't really want to bend evenly around the curve so it's as good as I could get it... ;D
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That looks really good.
What did you use for canvas?
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It looks very smart. 8)
Ken
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What I did was....
...every picture I've seen of this ship shows a canvas (?) sheet attatched to the railings over the front of the promenade deck. The PBM model has pre-shaped styrene for this and I like how it looks and wanted something similar-looking.
After two abortive attempts I settled on this....
Covered the railings with cooking foil and pressed it gently against them so the rails and stanchions show through a bit... cut a piece from an old ( not too old) shirt and ironed it smooth then trimmed it to a little bigger than is needed.
hold it in place over the foil using clothes pegs to start with and apply sanding sealer until the cloth is soaked through and lays in the depressions in the foil. allow to dry (once it's had sealer applied to a fairly large area, clothes pegs can be removed and it stays in position)
when it's dry to the touch remove the foil from the railings and attempt to remove the cloth, allow the 'inside' to complete drying (this causes it to roll up but it won't matter!) the cloth can then be trimmed to the required size without fraying and should 'fit' onto the railings. I left some 'tabs' on the top edge which can be bent over and glued to the bottom of the rail capping later.
I then painted the cloth matt white, as the sealer turned it a bit yellow and when dry, stitched the ends to the end stanchions with white cotton...
...all I have to do now is make the port side ones, then all the rest from behind the paddle drums - but those are more or less straight and without the canvas sheet
For the openng part of the rail capping I used strips of the foil used on the telegraphs with yellow lacquer over it to represent the brass ends
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haven't started the other railings yet as it takes time and I have to go out soon, started on the promenade deck planking instead...
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Coming together really nice, Mick. I have to ask what are the devices on the sponson houses between the portholes? I am guessing that they are some sort of air scoops for ventilation?
regards
Clark
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I think they're a type of ventilator designed to suck air out as the wind flows over the cone shape, in a similar way to how an airbrush sucks paint out of the jar...
...the real ones are much shorter front to back though but I hadn't seen them up close when I made those - and I didn't find this picture until it was all painted!
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:great Mick........however I think they may work in reverse to the paint air brush venturi effect
1. air at constant volume & @ atmospheric pressure engages the point of the ventiliator cone
2. the air is subjected to an ever increasing cronical surface area & hence the pressure reduces
3. at the largest diameter of the cronical cone & hence the lowest external air pressure.....the air from within the structure again @ atmospheric pressure is drawn to the lower pressure void
4. naturally these units are totally bi-directional & consume ZERO energy over that of mother nature
All courtesy of Mr Benouli :gathering & his colleagues I suspect.........Derek :beer
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you may well be right, I'm only guessing at their purpose based on the only type I have seen close up, on tattershall castle (before they were replaced with modern 'bathroom wall' type extractors). even then I'm assuming they suck air out by the shape and inside detail (also they were on the outside wall of the toilets!)
No photos as I didn't have a good camera but I made a number of sketches of various fittings, they looked like this;- first picture
an attempt to make those type vents for P.S Freshwater:- second picture
(also a pic of the type of vent I tried to make for the 'Liz' but on Brian Eatons' Medway Queen) third picture
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...Now, back to the project...
started on the port side railings, in the picture can be seen the template which is drilled for the positions of the stanchions, I made a few 'adjustments' that's why there are arrows to some of the holes - the others are not used. This is fixed to the scrap chipboard and drilled through then removed. short bits of wire are stuck into the holes and the stanchions placed on them, then the template is secured with more bits of wire to hold them all upright before soldering the bottom rail in place.
the template was used for the starbd side first and turned over for the port side, the curved side fits into the drainage channel around the deck as it's also used to drill the holes in the deck and the underside of the rail capping....
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I finished soldering the railings together at the weekend and have been working on the canvas covers...
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once cut to the necessary shape, they are painted with matt white - as the sanding sealer makes them look like masking tape in colour!
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About now, I start on the rail capping...
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when fully set, the black styrene is cut away with a sharp craft knife and the sides sanded smooth. I also sand the edges to a rounded shape which hopefully will make it look less thick, as it is still somewhat thicker than scale.
The holes where the bridge supports pass through must be opened out carefully and the ends trimmed to the required length (I made it too long)
It's a good idea to test fit it on the railings and see how it looks.
If all is OK it can be painted, I use 'Tamiya red brown matt acrylic' followed by 'Wilkinsons' dark oak wood varnish..
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Now the railings must be painted before going any further. What I did was, using Araldite precision or Wilko repositionable two-part epoxy resin, apply a little to each joint in the railing where it will be seen ie. only on the inside where the canvas covering will be, to simulate the ball joins on a real ship. When fully set, the railings are spray painted with (in this case) simoniz acrylic white gloss. the effect can be seen on this pic of the completed starbd side rail that didn't yet have the canvas attached...
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an excelant detailed writeup. great looking railings :D
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"It's a good idea to test fit it on the railings and see how it looks.
If all is OK it can be painted"
I forgot a bit..... first I had to glue short pieces of 0.8mm brass wire into the tops of the stanchions and the furthest aft piece of the gate. Then a scrap of the black styrene is drilled and put on the brass wire which is cut as close as possible to the styrene, then it's filed flat. When the styrene is removed the piece of wire should be the correct length to locate in the underside of the rail capping. This is done to all the stanchions.
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...and then....
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I've already removed a thin ring of paint from the bridge supports where they pass through the rail capping, araldite is applied to it. Also to the top 'folded over' edge of the canvas sheet and to the holes in the underside of the rail capping. Then the rail capping is fitted onto the railings and held lightly in place until set.
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No doubt I've just made it all sound like everything went like clockwork, well, it didn't!
When I did 'test fit' the rail capping it turned out to be about 1.5mm too long (no idea how that happened) most of the holes lined up OK but the distance between the first and second bridge support was too long so I had to cut a piece out and re-join the two halves. That was successful and you can't even see the join ;D
Then I found that no matter how much I tried to fold the top edge of the canvas, it would straighten, pushing up the rail capping. I put the ply template on top of it to hold it down and fitted clamps to the bridge supports to push it down. This worked but the clamps damaged the paint and I got some araldite on the top of the rail capping so it stuck to the ply! Got it off eventually but also some of the paint/varnish - which then had to be re-applied. It looks fine now though :-[
Finally, some araldite ran down the canvas and set - but it came away when pried off with the tip of a knife, didn't even need repainting... :azn:
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bits and pieces I've done since last time.....
sanded down a couple of LEDs as much as I dare without going through the cover glass and 'superglued' two pieces of wire on the tip to represent how they look on photos... soldered wires on and tried them on 3 volts... looked a bit blue so I tried lightly painting with the same yellow transparent laquer used to simulate brass... they look much more like white now but didn,t show very well in the photo. I then fitted them into the plates above the doors and painted the backs black so light only shows from the front.
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also noticed the stairways (passenger ones, anyhow) are not open ladders as supplied from the model shop so spent some time painstakingly blocking them all in with bits of styrene sheet cut to size, the back will need sanding level when set...
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also noticed the stairways (passenger ones, anyhow) are not open ladders...
I'm not too sure about that statement now, on some pictures they are open while on others they look like they're filled in - but may be just the light/camera angle, or may have been changed at various times during the ships 'working life'
anyhow, I'm using the filled in ones but after painting they didn't look very good in my opinion, just couldn't get the right colour so I've added strips of wood to the steps, coloured the same as the deck planking and with a thin (very thin!) strip of foil tape on the front edge to represent the brass reinforcement seen on waverleys' steps - but without the grooved texture, I can't build that at this scale!
pictures as soon as the camera battery has recharged...
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camera's about half-charged so enough for a picture :D
I've fitted them into place but still need to fit all the railings yet...
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I didn't realise until now but I haven't posted on this since my birthday!
not much to report, been putting the wirimg for lighting in and details for the aft saloon which is a bit visible through the windows (only from close-up though so I don't know if it was worth the bother and time it's taking...)
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Hi Mick,
Coming along very nicely. The thought of wether or not its worth it shouldn't enter the equation. Enjoy the build knowing you have done it your way, and be surprised when people comment, re the detail you have included and how much better it looks with the interior done.
Keep up the good work
kiwi
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thanks for the encouragement! I do like to make this stuff and I do think it looks good - even though it won't be seen on the water ;D
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I have to say that I love all the interior detailing Mick - But it's not something I would have the patience to do!
Regards
Eddy
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Yes very nice indeed and well worth all that effort....those seating bays look quite comfortable I must say!!
Clark
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thanks everyone, though I have to say I've no idea what it should really look like, the only times I saw this ship it had already been converted into a bar and restaurant - with a flat floor where the boiler and engine room should have been - so what I'm aiming for is that what little can be seen through the windows should give the impression of a bar/canteen area with some passengers using it...
...I like making this part though ;D
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Very impressive! Thanks for sharing your techniques. I'm picking up a lot of great pointers here reading through your build. There's a lot here that a novice can pick up in a few minutes of reading that would otherwise take years of trial and error to learn.
Don
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a little bit more progress...
made and fitted tabletops, figures and 'things' on the tables plus styrene wood panelling (just couldn't paint a straight line onto the walls), still to finish the kitchen/bar at the back.
added a strip around the edge to fix the deck onto when it's ready. started on the promenade deck, it's cut to shape/size and planks drawn on and stained and coated with sanding sealer...
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It looks superb with all the detailing Mick, but I think you've got too much time on your hands! :hehe
Regards
Eddy
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sorry for the lack of updates (here or anywhere else!) had no internet for the last month, just spent four days gatting all the (apparently compulsory) updates as the broadband is now slower than when I had dial-up service - and still keeps cutting out during use, need to speak to BT..... >:(
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still having problems, called bt yesterday and they did some tests, should be calling back today. seems to work a lot better with the phone unplugged so I think it may be the ADSL filter got damaged by a thunder/lightning storm the other week (that happened before)
anyhow, I was looking through all these cds' I made should the worst happen and I need to re format the hard drive ( :-\ ) and copy all the stuff on the computer first - and found a disc full of pictures that I didn't know I had.... I'll show the relevant ones....
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... for some reason I was thinking it'd have a more modern-looking 'all metal' one but that's all I could find (and anyway,no photos to confirm what type should be there)...
(referring to the steering wheel by the way)
....well, I must have remembered seeing this some time earlier... I'm not going to try to change it now though (and couldn't find a suitable size one at the time anyway)
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....made a couple of 'double' telegraphs for the bridge wings, I don't know if that's correct for the ship but as there's a capstan* both ends (so far as I can tell) and I only see one** telegraph each side of the bridge....
*capstan both ends.... as there are 'holes' for anchor chains, I guess it's a windlass at the bow but on photos there seems to be a capstan on top of it (some type of windlass I hadn't seen before maybe, with an extra vertical winch drum ?)
**one telegraph each side... or is there? I've only seen one photo showing the bridge wing in any detail (last edition of paddle wheels) I only see one telegraph and there's a 'tube' under it which I assume has the mechanical linkage inside, but looks like there's another tube next to it so maybe they had an engine room tele on there also for ease of mooring? can't really tell as there is a crew member in front of it...
the 'recently discovered' pictures show the forward capstan in reasonable detail and suggest there are two telegraphs on the bridge wings - from the angle the photo was taken I see one to the right of the staircases both sides and assuming the two bridge wings would be a mirror image of each other there must be one on the left of the stairway also....
first picture also shows what is behind the funnel (pressure cylinder/fire extinguisher thing) in better detail than I've previously seen
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....I've no idea what it (interior of the main saloon) should really look like....
....I do now! only big error in my opinion is having the staircase in the middle of it. Waverley has one but the lower deck is separated into two rooms, the other staircase is next to the door, as the photo shows one door not two as I have in the model, I suspect the stairway should be as for waverleys lower bar. This also meant I have the ventilator shaft further forward than it should be.... still, it took me this long to find out so who'd know ;D
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Hi Mick,
There is an interesting picture on Ebay at the moment showing double Telegraphs
A link -
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PHOTOGRAPH-BRIDGE-PADDLE-STEAMER-/110659431271?pt=UK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ&hash=item19c3d0eb67
That is an interesting pic of the Capstan you have posted. Not an 'off the shelf' style ... nothing is ever easy :)
Looking good.
Regards,
Kim
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No, I'll have to try to build that myself!
final picture shows a view of the promenade deck and is similar to one in the book I have but without passengers, also seems to be some kind of sheet over the landing platform...
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I don't know where the time goes, has it really been nearly 3 months since my last update???
anyhow, haven't made too much progress in that time but what I have done is...
Made the forward part of the main deck, drawn planks on and stained and sealed it..
Started to construct 'a representation of' the forward winch/windlass/capstan, this is the second attempt as the first was rubbish - no matter how carefully I tried to make two identical sides. This time I glued together two strips of styrene (glued at the ends only) then drilled the holes using one of the failed ones as a template and cut them out together. It will probably look better when it has the cylinders and other details added and gets painted... but I'll need to find some of the gears for it if it's to look 'proper' (old personal cassette player that's no good would do for those)
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a problem made itself apparent! as I was moving the model, the 'belting' across the starb'd paddledrum fell off! The brass strip behind it which supports the feathering centre stayed in place so wouldn't have been too bad had it happened while sailing. Looks like the epoxy resin didn't really take to the brass strip, I sanded it all off and re-attached it taking care to roughen the surface of the brass a bit better but I'll most likely add 2 or 3 self-tapping screws at the ends and middle on both these parts to prevent it happening again.
Unfortunately, while removing the feathering gear, I managed to knock off 3 of the fake nuts that hold the pivot pins in the star centre - seems they're not styrene as I'd thought (ABS?) so I need to remove all the rest and either replace with styrene ones or re attach with araldite.... then repaint it >:(
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as I now have a picture of what's behind the funnel I decided to change that part of the model to more accurately represent it.... and besides, the main mast forward stays have to attach there (didn't notice that when I built the railing!)
another thing I forgot to do that should've been done before painting, putting the still incomplete anchor winch in place - I didn't make the chain holes in the bow...
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I built a few more bits for this, cylinder assemblies and the valve eccentrics...
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a little bit more on this piece, also painted some of it that would be hard to get at when complete, the large gear and shaft are removed at the moment to allow painting on the inside of the frames and I need to make the chain pulleys and levers before it will be refitted..
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(from an older post about the boiler room vents -
These vents are a little larger than they should be - they're the closest thing I could find to correct size (and better I think, than the largest styrene 'ready made' ones which were too small) but still a little bit bigger than would be ideal, particularly the down tubes but they too were the nearest thing the shop had. I had some I'd bought years ago that was perfect but not enough left to make two vents and couldn't find that exact size.....
also, I noticed the boiler casing (fiddely?) was shorter front to rear than the real thing and the result of both these is the front funnel stays wrap around the vents just a little.
(1) I could leave it like that (they're elastic so it doesn't affect anything) and with the bridge in place it won't really show...
(2) I could move the attachment points inboard a couple of millimeters...
(3) I could fit attachment points on the bottom edge of the wheelhouse...
Or (4) make more vents the correct size - if I ever find more suitable parts to use.
Having had all night to think it over I decided to do number (1) and as they are removeable, do number (4) at a later time if I really can't live with them )
...while looking for some P38, humbrol model filler or milliput for the chain pulleys I found a couple of pieces of styrene tube of a more suitable size for the boiler vents (knew I had some somewhere) so decided to try making two more... but couldn't find anything for the tops so tried making my own by holding sheet styrene over a candle to soften it then pressing it down over a large bead. Tried heating the styrene for different lengths of time, using different thicknesses, heating larger or smaller areas and indenting it to different depths. It took ten attempts to get two suitable 'domes' to fit on the tubes
(settled on 1.5mm thickness which is about .5mm after stretching)
They need more work but look about the correct size for the model, I think...
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just to compare the real ship with the first vents I built, thought they looked too close together but soon realised they were just too big...
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haven't achieved much since last time :-[ but...
funnel base is pretty much complete now, painted and glued together, 90 degree fittings on the ends of the pipes under the water tank had to be made separately then fitted as I couldn't seem to get them exactly the right length just by bending tube...
the boiler room vents are complete and painted too but are bolted on as they are supposed to be removable and will secure the superstructure so it can't work loose and fall overboard!
wheelhouse is just resting in place at the moment as there is more detail to be added (railing and gates like waverley has over the sponsons) and while I figure out just how best to get wiring to the P&S nevigation lights (maybe the mooring telegraph casings which go from deck to under the bridge and across the bottom of the bridge - that could work...)
pictures ;D
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internet hasn't worked for 2 weeks! but the show so far....
repaired the damage to the strbd wheel (2-part epoxy - hope I don't need to dismantle it any time soon...) a bit more work on the detailed interior but not so you'd notice, funny how some things take hours to do but don't make very much visible difference...
attached the wood (with planks drawn on it) promenade deck to thin styrene sheet so it can be fitted using styrene cement ('repositionable for 20 mins' 2-part epoxy for fixing the two together - took nearly that long to spread it all over!)
then got to thinking about lighting, starting with the navigation lights...
Looking at Waverley, the mast lights don't actually look white in the daytime and I now think the white LEDs I used for Freshwater resemble spotlights so I was thinking about ways to tone them down a bit, first I sanded the dome off the front then roughened the whole surface with fine wet-or-dry, it makes the beam less directional and gives a more diffused light. they then looked less like spotlights but still a bit 'blue-ish'....
just out of curiosity I tried the same yellow laquer as on the brass fittings and it looked good so I tried it in a mastlight casing (piece of brass tube with a hole filed in it and piece of coke bottle plastic inside) and it looks as good as I can get so will make them all like that. Port and stbd lights didn't look right somehow with the red and green laquer and I thought of painting it on the clear coke bottle plastic instead but as luck would have it I had some coloured acetate (?) probably from old fashioned 3d glasses (when they used red and green not red and blue) and put pieces of it in the lamp housings, it works and I'll try to photograph them when they're fitted....
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tried to photograph one of them, first with flash then without (and with the resulting longer exposure time) neither really show how it looks in reality....(here it is lit with a couple of aa batteries, will be run off 12v using the resistors supplied with the LEDs)
I quite liked the mesh gratings in the old boiler room vents (I made them to disguise the unrealistic shape inside the cowl, new ones didn't really need them) so I made some anyway and fitted them, also made two more telegraphs for the brigde wings but naturally they turned out a bit different to the existing ones, being made so much later and me forgetting what diameter tubes I used and how exactly I made them... :-\
other than that, been 'painting people' - anyone else seem to run out of colour choices to make them all look different?
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Yes, I agree about painting people. The colour schemes do run out so I tended to shades of grey. Amazing how many combinations there are. Bright vivid colours do catch the eye and are best not used. Mix them down with grey getting darker and darker.
Colouring them to show years ago scenes is even wore as there is no real choice at all. They're all Black and Grey shades.
ken
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internet hasn't worked for about 3 weeks this time, found it needs the phone unplugged, not sure if it's the phone or the broadband filter.....
....anyway, haven't had as much time as I'd have liked for models what with christmas but started on the masts, they are pieces of old fishing rods I found discarded (both were damaged but had usable lengths for this) I've removed all the rings and binding thread and sanded the paint off, and cut them to length, made the navigation lights and started on the 'deck sockets' based on the ones on waverley (styrene tube of suitable size and styrene sheet). for some reason the camera just won't focus on them, I took several pictures but only one is in focus. if the weather brightens up a biy I can try with natural light....
pictures of the navigation lights (1st attempt anyhow but I'll probably use them) and areas of waverleys masts - I won't be making mine as detailed as that!
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Fine, but what about the wirings on the mast?
On my models I made bi- matal masts and only connected the lights under the deck. So no wiring can be seen.
Same I did with the RC antenna. Wooden flagstock with a brass wire inside, glued with epoxy and the outlet is a little ring on whch the original wiring of the mast ist fitted as antenna.
Andreas
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Fine, but what about the wirings on the mast?
well, looking at how much there is on waverleys masts, I thought I'd just glue it on, through holes in the base and into a plug that will go right into the deck.... like I did on this one....
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managed to get a reasonable picture of the mast base under construction and complete/painted. styrene tube is filed to the correct angle at one end (the masts lean back at the same angle as the funnel) cut to required length and glued onto the mast then a disk of styrene sheet fitted on the bottom, then pieces of styrene sheet attached fore and aft and either side to form the strengthening 'webs' (they are fitted oversize as they're too small for me to handle otherwise!). when set these are cut flush with the disk and tidied up with a small file as needed and the whole item painted
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a little bit more on the masts, I made something to represent the 'belaying pins' near the base (more like what I've seen on washing lines!) but with the rigging thread attached it should be good enough....
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almost finished the fore-mast now, still work to be done on the main mast. I got some connectors from a broken toy (robot/homer simpson thing) and used one to make the mast removeable but allow electrical connection for the light...
...hopefully I got the angle right so they will be at the same angle of tilt as the funnel but I won't know for certain until the deck is fixed down - and I need to fit the mast socket and wiring before that... ???
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...the bits of tube at the base and wires to the navigation light (on the outside of the mast) are 'inspired' by the ones on waverley (though the tube I used is out of scale really but is all I had that the wire would go through) A picture showing Princess Elizabeths main mast shows a similar arrangement...
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...fitted the mast socket into the hull this morning then tried comparing it with the funnel (no pictures unfortunately) , the mast was leaning back far too much - how could I have got that so wrong? I was sure I'd measured it correctly!
had a look at some photos of the ship and the terrible reality hit me..... now, I don't have any plans for the ship but had worked out the positions of various deck structures from photos and drew them on the deck, then drew on the planks and stained and sealed the deck.... I'd cut out the hole for the mast around the now barely visible mark - or so I thought - a look at the photo showed there was a cowl vent and companionway in front of the mast! I'd fitted it where the cowl vent should have been :-\
fortunately I hadn't used 5 min epoxy so was able to remove the socket and refit in the correct position - which just left repairing the large hole in the deck forward of the mast (already mostly done) and with the mast in the correct place the angle is just right
this is the down side of working from rough sketches on the back of old gas bills!
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...here it is....
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about half way through building the main mast now, construction is much the same as the fore mast. I never did cover how the mast stays are to be attached and although I'm sure everyone knows a way (possibly a different one) I'l try to quickly explain what I'm doing...
First I stripped the insulation from some single core electrical wire (found on the ground near a telephone line connection box) and twisted it around a very small screwdriver to form a loop then cut it off with about 2 inches spare wire still attached (make as many of these as will be needed)
Then I took a length of brass tube that fits over the mast but quite closely at the point where the stays will be. (may need smaller diameter tube for the top ones than the 'middle' ones) and drill 1mm holes around one end.
The 'tails' are then fed through the holes and out of the end of the tube, where they are twisted together and bent as necessary to keep the loops close to the tube.
Then the end of the tube is covered with solder. I used 'radio' solder and a 25W electric iron. The wire is not too strong but will only have thin cotton covered elastic (shiring elastic?) tied onto it and if accidentally hit by anything the elastic will just stretch and not break the loops.... I hope :-\
Once soldered, the wire tails are cut off, any excess solder outside and inside the tube filed away carefully (in the case of the last one I made, used far too much solder and had to drill it out just to get a file inside!) then ensure it can still pass over the mast up to the point it will be fitted.
If all OK, cut the tube just below the wire loops and file smooth then glue onto the mast, either 2-part epoxy or superglue should work.
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well it's been a while since the last bit of progress, just been making some bits and pieces and preparing the promenade deck - ie. cutting out holes where the engineroom skylight and main mast will go...
...Engineroom skylight. This would cover the main 'on/off' switch and other switches for lighting so would have to be able to open....I thought that would take about half an hour tops... three weeks and several failed versions later and this is what I've come up with...
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:hehe :hehe :hehe that sounds so like me on most items i make. i apologise up front but your comment did make me chuckle
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...we are not alone!!...
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...sometimes it just turns out that way :D
this mornings 'quick sub-assembly before I have to go out' went without any problems, built the crew companionway on the fore deck. mostly styrene sheet in varying thicknesses but veneer doors with track pins for doorknobs, all from the scrap box. it'll do. especially as I couldn't find any pictures showing it in detail...
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I like the door handle idea, must remember that one.
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did a little more this morning but nothing 'visible' from looking at the model, it was all wiring inside and as I have 3 days leave to use up before may 1st (starting tomorrow) think I'll have a go at one of the larger jobs - fitting the servos etc inside the hull.
so, first thing I suppose will be to cut a piece of ply to mount the servos in........
...more on this later in the week - if I'm successful
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well I only seemed to have time to get the wiring in the 'front bit' done.
been working on how to get it through/past the detachable join without the wiring being visible and without cutting through the watertight bulkhead - would have been a lot more strightforward if the hull was in one piece!
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...fuses for the mast light and interior light are fitted in the hull so they will run from 12 volts, connector pins recovered from an old circuit board should allow the hull sections to be linked using cables (which I haven't made yet but I'm fairly sure this will work ::) )
Idiot aren't I! I mean RESISTORS are fitted in the hull, fuses will be fitted nearer the battery in the aft section of the hull....
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last weekend no progress was made as I had to go out for the weekend, today I glued the box with the connector pins to the underside of the fore deck then glued the deck in place... hopefully the electrics are all still in working order as it won't be possible to remove it without some serious cutting :-[
I'm sure it will be fine...no pictures though, there really is nothing different about it except it can't be removed now
...oh, one other thing, I did drill/file the holes for the anchor chains which I'd forgot to do before painting the hull, unfortunately, and started preparing a length of chain to use on the model (most pictures I have show no chain in either of the holes, one picture shows one on the port side only - and an anchor-handling davit on the same side so I'm going with that)
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....and started preparing a length of chain....
I couldn't find any chain in a suitable size in the spares box so had to buy some. All I could get was either brass or nickel plated mild steel so went for the latter. It's a very glittery silver colour as supplied (for hobby jewelery making?) so I cut a suitable length put it on a sheet of medium grade wet-or-dry and, using fingertips, rolled it around for about 20 minutes to try to remove or damage as much of the plating as possible.
then I put the chain into a plastic container (lid from a coffee jar or a spray can would do) and half filled it with water, added a used brillo pad (steel wool with a little of the powder bleach stuff left in it) and left it on a window ledge until the water had evaporated, this took a week. Then refilled the container and left it another week.
It is now quite rusted!
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....Hi PD's...... :whistle most nickel plated components have an electroless plating depth of a few micron [1 micron= a millionith of a meter]
I [unsucessfully] attempted to chemically remove nickle plating from 6 mm hex brass standoffs....with a number of dilute acids & :hammer.......in the end I had to flat them with 1200 wet & dry
So Mick you were very lucky to convert the studded chain to a look a like article..... :clap ......Derek
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I thought it might work as I'd found a length of chain while tidying up weeds in a car park (at work) it had been kicked around and had cars drive over it and left in the rain for a couple of weeks and looked ideal for a 32nd scale model, so I tried to simulate the process on a smaller chain, under controlled conditions, as it were....
Today I made up one of the connectors for the power socket in the bow section and tried the lighting on 12 volts. as the cable only goes into the superstructure above, I had to temporarily put the battery on the main deck so it could reach.... all seems OK and it looks quite pleasing :) difficult to get a good picture though, with flash the lights don't show up, without it the exposure time is lengthened, maybe if I used a tripod.......
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Been examining pictures to try to decide what parts to make for the forward deck and where they go, I had already made (and fitted) the companionway and mostly finished the mast and the steam winch/capstan (just need to make the chain pulleys) but it still looked short on detail so I decided to try and make all the stanchions that support the bulwarks. There seems to be eight on each side and they look a bit randomly placed - though I suppose they're where they're needed ie. close to the mast stays and the hinged edges of the freight doors, I think I've got the most likely positions on the model now all I have to do is make them :)
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Hi PD's......Mick....would the stanchions that support the bulwarks be in line with the vessel hull frames?.........Derek :hammer
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they could be, probably are but if so there isn't one for every frame as the spaces between them vary so much, I suspect they are only where there is most force against the bulwark... for example, the curved part near the front has only one but the (more-or-less) flat part going up to the superstructure has several quite close together - but this is also where the mast stays are attached and, further back, where the loading gates are.
I've constructed something I hope is close enough in appearance to the large frame supporting the bollards/bitts (I'm sure I read somewhere that bollards are mooring posts fixed on a pier or on land whereas bitts are on a vessel) I was going to make the cylindrical parts myself but as luck would have it I had four 'billing boats' ones of suitable size in the spares box so used those. The actual stanchions proved to be a bit trickier.... if I just had the upright rod it'd solve half the problem but I see they have a short length in the middle welded between the upright and the bulwark... so tried soldering pieces of brass wire together, seems to work most of the time and only two fell apart soon as I started bending them ???
It would have been good if I'd thought about this part earlier, I'd have fitted them before painting by drilling through the hull, glueing them in then cut off and file the excess on the outside but as it's already done and I don't want to destroy the paintwork I'm fitting them to a thin strip of styrene and glueing that to the hull...
I'm sure it will look OK when it's all painted the same colour (brown, not that 'Co-op' green in some of the later photos!)
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made and fitted 2 more stanchions plus the six 'rings' that the mast stays attach to. would have finished all of them if it wasn't for having to do the garden today >:(
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....when it's all painted the same colour (brown, not that 'Co-op' green in some of the later photos!)
....I'd assumed it was brown but had only seen black and white photos showing that area .... after watching the PSPS video 'Paddle Parade vol 1, I now see the inside of the bulwarks was painted cream colour, only the edges are brown!
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It does look much better painted :) I'm not bothering with the triangular webs on the supports for the 'bollards' or the hooks welded onto the edges of them though.
I notice there's a thin brown border between the deck and the bulwark but am finding it virtually impossible to paint it straight enough, may leave it out or possibly purchase lining tape later on - if they make it in that colour....
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still need to make and fit the mooring posts, anchor davit and finish the winch/capstan plus all the 'loose items' that seem to be scattered around on the real ship - seats, what looks like pallets with coiled ropes on them, passengers and crew.... plus the brown capping needs a second coat - but apart from that it's not looking too bad I think
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they're not all identical or completely straight for that matter...then again, the ones on the real ship aren't always perfect either!
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came home from work yesterday after a third-in-a-row unusually warm day and found something 'unexpected and unfortunate' had happened to the promenade deck... it's acting like a bi-metal strip (or plywood thermostat)
I'll have to think on this and decide wether it'll be OK once glued down, or if I'll have to make another one using better quality wood!
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Mick, that's a bit of a blow.
Will be looking forward to what solution you find, as I've had a similar occurrence in the past.
cheers
kiwi
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saturday morning it had returned almost to it's original shape (flat) but by the evening when the whole house was hot again (I was out all day so windows were closed) it had bent upwards again, even worse than before! this time it didn't go flat overnight but retained quite a severe curve. It doesn't take much pressure to push it down and would probably be OK glued down - except for the part just behind the paddle drum (over the sponson) which, because of the position of the lifeboats, has to come off with the main superstructure. I could always stick some bracing to the bottom of the deck - it would be inside the sponson house when put together and with the railings above it should be enough to keep it straight - otherwise it'd need some screws in the deck in not-too-obvious places with threaded holes below.
Why, I wonder does it do this? possible reasons could be;
1. it was cut from an old piece of ply I bought about 25 years ago when I started on the 32nd scale tattershall castle and left it leaning against the wall behind a cabinet. when I 'rediscovered it' it had that curved shape but I levelled it using a steam iron thinking that would soften the glue between the ply which would then re-set and be OK.
2. as the superstructure is styrene and I didn't want to get araldite all over it I stuck it to a sheet of styrene so it can be fitted using styrene cement. maybe styrene sheet expands in the heat - or ply shrinks. in the past I've only glued ply onto a completed s/s with styrene sub deck - and never such a long single piece so have never had this happen before... I'll leave attaching it until the last moment and decide if it'd be better to just buy a new piece of ply
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I think :thinking I would try epoxying strips of aluminium to the under side of the offending deck. Wile holding it flat of course. :hammer Nothing to lose. Just one question has the under side been treated with the same varnish or paint as the top, as you suspect surface tension is the cause. Geoff
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I reckon your steam ironing injected moisture into the ply and so the straightening was only going to last as long as the ply took to de-humidify back to it's original state. The tension it was under at that point produced the pronounced bend.
I have the same problem when I use .6mm veneer glued to .8mm balsa for my decks. I endeavour to put the balsa grain at right angles to the veneer grain but I still get warping and I have to add extra stiffeners under the balsa. Obviously these comments won't apply to ply (no pun intended!) but the principle might.
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well, now the temperature has returned to normal (ie, a bit on the cold side) the deck has returned fully to its correct shape. I think I will try sticking bits of metal underneath it, have a dismantled clock (I was looking for useful parts!) and thought pieces of the mainspring would do if they'll survive flattening out without cracking, since it's very thin it wouldn't affect anything else - they'd be inside the sponson houses and engine room areas so not visible at all. The rest of the deck should be OK when it's glued in place ;)
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Well, how time flies, it's certainly been a while since I last posted! haven't been completely idle though and between (finally) having a tooth removed that had been giving me problems for several years (eventually went septic and swelled up more than I ever believed possible) and refurbishing the 'small paddletug' which had suffered minor damage and the newly rebuilt and painted area showed how faded the paint had become, I did some stuff for the liz.
I tried to make the anchor-handling davit (?) but it turned out looking like a street lamp so started again and the second one looked more believeable - so I'll use that. Also I made a deliberate mistake, if there is such a thing, and built the stove pipe shown on older photos. (photos showing the colour sceme I'm using don't have the stove pipe so I assume it was removed early 1960s) just because I wanted more details fitted on the rather featureless fore deck. Also assembled the winch/capstan thingy but still need to make the protective covers for the cranks and gears and complete painting - on that item and one of the pulley blocks on the davit.
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This weekends mini-project; how to make and fit the tops of the masts....
I'd been thinking about this on-and-off for months now, and came up with a possible solution....
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if it worked, this would allow attachment of the flag rope (?) right at the top without some big ugly fitting being stuck up there and without having to make a microscopic version of what's on a real ship!
This is how it turned out.....
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these pics I took of waverleys masthead (from on deck) showing various brackets, presumably with pulleys on them. with my eyesight and available tools I can no longer make details like that in 1/48th scale.
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most elegant solution, Mick.
been pondering the same problem for my 1/48th Koheroa paddler
thanks
kiwi
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I've completed the mainmast but not fitted it properly just yet until I figure out the connections at the base. Foremast is fitted and rigging attached - though I'm not that happy with the attachment of the stays, may try to make something more like the adjustable screws on a real ship instead of the 'large hooks' I have on it at present.
all the fittings are removed for now while I'm working on the mainmast....
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.... have a dismantled clock (I was looking for useful parts!) and thought pieces of the mainspring would do if they'll survive flattening out without cracking, since it's very thin it wouldn't affect anything else - they'd be inside the sponson houses and engine room areas so not visible at all. The rest of the deck should be OK when it's glued in place ;)
Tried it, no good, too flexible, think I'll get some angled brass from the shop ....
in the meantime resumed working on the detailed interior which is really holding up progress as I can't attach the deck, railings etc. until it's done