Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: Mercury on August 22, 2009, 05:41:16 PM
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Not that we need another one but I thought I'd have a go at documenting my Waverley build. Don't expect it to be quick - I typically take about 3 years to build a boat. This will be my second Paddler, I previously built a 1:48 scale LMS Mercury about 15 years ago. In between times I've built a variety of models including the Sirmar hunt type 2 destroyer, a Talacre and the Maid of Argyll and Arran from the Clyde.
My Waverley will be 1:48 scale based upon a fibreglass hull. The hull is scale draft and was moulded for me by Aberdeen Glass Fibre from a mould I got through the Model Steamer Club. Unfortunately this isn't available comercially (sorry guys!). Cost was £45 so I'd recommend them to anyone living in the North East of Scotland. Plans are from Waverley Excursions with a lot of checks against photo's from 1947. There are considerable changes between then and now with regards to the wheelhouse, vents, hull windows, lifeboats the list goes on and on. Checking this has proved to me how much you need to pick a particular era for modelling a ship as even if they haven't been rebuilt the number of day to day changes are considerable.
So the starting point is the hull - photo attached below. I've also attached some pictures of the Waverley hull with the Jeanie Deans hull alongside. Both are accurate at 1:48 so it shows well the differences in lines between the two. The Jeanie is a much finer vessel - on weight testing trials the Waverley is quite stable but the Jeanie is comparably more tender. The reason for the 1947 era is so that eventually I can have both ships sailing together in LNER colours. That's the plan at the moment anyway but I may convince myself to do Jeanie in 1935 condition. I'd better admit that I'm a grade A spotter at the start so appologies to anyone who is struggling to work out what I'm talking about when I talk about companies, colour schemes and specific ships.
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Hi Mercury
We shall look forward to following your build with interest. Please post regularly, with plenty of pictures, as this is very popular ship.
I notice your hull has the windows marked out ready. What a blessing. ;) It looks a fine manufacture of a hull, so you've got a good starting point. If you want any details of certain areas, I have a few pictures I could send, as it was reported the Waverley is the most photographed ship in the world and I must have a few hundred of em!
All the best
Ken
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Hi Mercury,
looks like a couple of fine hulls you have there, both of the models completed & sailing together would be some sight ;D
Looking forward to hearing your progress
regards
Clark
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We're always happy to see more builds Richard, even if they are paddlers that have been done before. The fact is that we can all learn from others, so every one helps!
I only wish that more people would post detailed build logs for us all to follow...
Regards
Eddy
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I found from both my WAVERLEY and JEANIE DEANS models, that the JEANIE was the more stable of the two, but there again I built them at 5/16" to the foot. Sandy
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Thanks for the kind comments guys. I only hope this build doesn't become one of my rather extended ones! My Arran ended up taking five years but in my defence I did spend three of them in an ex-soviet republic!
I've had a day of glass fibre dust and have managed to get all the windows down one side cut out. I've used my usual method - 2mm drill bit in a small black and decker tool - bit like a big dremmel - then burr file in the drill to smooth the edges and final finishing with a small flat file. About 3 hrs to cut out 20 odd windows. I'm sure someone must have a quicker way to do this???? Definitely a job for the summer outside. I hope to get all the hull cutting and glass fibre work done by the end of September as it'll be dark by 7pm in deepest darkest Aberdeenshire by then and building will have to move inside for the winter.
Interesting comment from Sandy on the relative tenderness of the Jeanie and the Waverley. The original Jeanie built from the mould I have was quite tender and eventually was fitted with a false keel. I know of a couple of scale draft Waverley at 48th scale which seem to work reasonably well. I'll have to work to the paddler mantra - keep the topsides weight down!
Anyway - enough for today - the dog is due his regular weekly trip to the pub - sorry evening walk!!
I'll post some more progress pictures tomorrow.
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Posting some pictures of the window cut outs and markings for the holes at the paddle sponson and the portholes. The openings on the sponsons have changed quite a bit over time and this is really my best guess from photo's.
I'm drilling and filing out all portholes. The ones at the bow are fairly easy to mark out although the last one of the top five at the bow is larger and offset. I am struggling a bit with the exact run of the windows under the stern knuckle. Does anyone have a picture of these lower deck windows - being in the lower deck bar is a bit like being in a washing machines as these ports are underwater as soon as the paddles start up. On the Jeanie after her rebuild the hull was so much deeper in the water some of the equivalent ports were almost permanently underwater!
The red hull above the Waverley in the attached pictures is a 1:48 Isle of Man Standard. Rather large and probably won't get built until I retire..........
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Hi Richard,
Good luck with the build, will be watching the build with interest.
All the best
Ian
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Hi Mercury
Hull coming to life with the windows & ports cut out 8) Regarding the lower ports, aft under the knuckle...Looking at your pics, the knuckle line on the hull looks like it gets lower slightly as it goes forward towards the sponsons (maybe its a photographic illusion)...it should be near enough level with the bottom of the windows & the top edge of hull...maybe thats throwing your measurements off?
On my Wav. I put the ports nearest the sponson an equal distance between the knuckle & the white painted waterline (see photo of Wav getting steelwork done), then, as I worked my way aft, and the flare of the hull becomes more extreme, I kept to that process, (1/2 way between knuckle & line). its awkward because of hull shape, I had a few goes marking out, before I was happy with them.
Also hard to get photos of this area ;D
regards
Clark
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Thanks Clark - that's exactly the info I needed.
Off to do some marking out.......
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Regarding your other hull (sorry this is a bit off subject as its a wav build :-[ )
I've always fancied the "Jeanie" in this condition...a racer!!!
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Clark,
I just remember those pictures in the underpass of the Greenock shopping centre car park. I lived in Inverkip until I was five and those pictures must have been my first introduction to Clyde Steamers in the late 70's, early 80's as a toddler.
Yes - the thought of building Jeanie in this condition is very tempting - I have a colour shot from Phil Thomas of the Jeanie in 1932-35 condition - will dig it out and scan it for posting.
However - need to finish Waverley first. I think I've managed to sort the run of the aft windows and I've drilled all the portholes - 1.5 mm, followed by 2mm, 2.5mm and finally 3mm drill bits. Above this size I find the gel coat cracks so I use a needle file followed by a round file to open out the holes. Completing all of the portholes will take me the rest of the week I suspect.
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I've managed to get one side of the windows and portholes finished this week - pictures below. I've also attached a photo showing the tools I use for cutting - drill, attachments, files and face mask. The mask is a 3M which I got a few years ago while working offshore and was used for protection against Benzene so should be fine for fibreglass dust. I've also got a powerful extractor fan in the workshop to keep the particles down and stop the smell perculating the rest of the house - garunteed to annoy my wife if I don't put it on.
The run of the aft portholes looks to be OK but I'm not sure on the large porthole at the end of the run at the bow.
For windows what have other people tried? the hull is about 3mm think so I don't fancy just putting acetate behind. On my Mercury I painted the hull and then put tape over the openings and poured clear casting resing in the holes. I then took the tape off and, as the resin remainded sticky for a few weeks, I was able to put 0.5mm plastic strip into the resin to frame out the windows. Does anyone else have better ideas?
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Hi,
I made a plug of my windows using plasticard and then moulded them in rvt silicon then cast them in clearcast.
The result was acceptable and much easier to produce in the quantities your looking for. Unfortunately i have no photos and the photos i posted on Ken's Waverley build have vanished but I'm sure you get the idea.
Looking good and lookforward to seeing her take shape
Regards
Kim
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...Looking good and lookforward to seeing her take shape...
Yes, me too, it'll be interesting to see how the same ship is built my another modeller and compare the methods used to achieve similar results... :)
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Hi,
I made a plug of my windows using plasticard and then moulded them in rvt silicon then cast them in clearcast.
The result was acceptable and much easier to produce in the quantities your looking for. Unfortunately i have no photos and the photos i posted on Ken's Waverley build have vanished but I'm sure you get the idea.
Looking good and look forward to seeing her take shape
Regards
Kim
I went back to my blog here, Kim, and from page 11 onwards, ALL the pictures have vanished.
I have tried to modify them and found that I had to re-transmit the actual photograph. (see page 11 for sample) If you had put any pictures on, then I would not have a copy.
Sorry about this, Mercury. I'd love to help you, but can only offer my version which leaks, I might add. :(
I will have to re-do all the pages from there onwards to restore the pictures.
Are there enough hours in the day. :whistle
ken
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Hi,
I made a plug of my windows using plasticard and then moulded them in rvt silicon then cast them in clearcast.
The result was acceptable and much easier to produce in the quantities your looking for. Unfortunately i have no photos and the photos i posted on Ken's Waverley build have vanished but I'm sure you get the idea.
Looking good and look forward to seeing her take shape
Regards
Kim
I went back to my blog here, Kim, and from page 11 onwards, ALL the pictures have vanished.
I have tried to modify them and found that I had to re-transmit the actual photograph. (see page 11 for sample) If you had put any pictures on, then I would not have a copy.
Sorry about this, Mercury. I'd love to help you, but can only offer my version which leaks, I might add. :(
I will have to re-do all the pages from there onwards to restore the pictures.
Are there enough hours in the day. :whistle
ken
I've restored as many of the photos as I can from what I had on my hard drive Ken..... Sadly not all, but it's the best I can do!
My host tells me they had a server failure which caused all the problems - So much for hosts that claim to do regular backups of data!
Regards
Eddy
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Making progress again now with all the windows cut out. I've got three questions which I could do with some help with:
1) What product do people recommend to use as a clear resin for casting the windows?
2) What is the best wood for framing out the internal substructure and where can I get it?
3) I will be using cut down Graupner paddles - what's the current favourite motor / gearing / chain drive combination available easily on the market?
Any suggetions much appreciated.
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Making progress again now with all the windows cut out. I've got three questions which I could do with some help with:
1) What product do people recommend to use as a clear resin for casting the windows?
2) What is the best wood for framing out the internal substructure and where can I get it?
3) I will be using cut down Graupner paddles - what's the current favourite motor / gearing / chain drive combination available easily on the market?
Any suggetions much appreciated.
My answers to the questions would be -
1. Scot Glass clear set resin - Although others would probably recommend Trylon EM400PA shallowcast
2. Difficult one - Personally i would use a thin Ply base / underdeck and a thinner deck- reliance on the fiberglass hull for strength. For extra strength in the narrowest part( the Bow - insert a Brass or steel stem?
3. I am completely Bias here - assuming your building at 1:48, looking for rimless feathering wheels then maybe these would be more suitable? Pictures below
www.clydemodelboats.co.uk
For gearing i can recommend -
http://www.motionco.co.uk/
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Kim - your a genius!
I take it this is your company? If so order me up a set now!
Seriously - I'll go through the correct channels.
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Kim - your a genius!
My wife does not agree ;D
I take it this is your company? If so order me up a set now!
Clyde Model Boats - Yes it is.
I have no connection with Motionco, just a previous customer.
Seriously - I'll go through the correct channels.
I will post some pics of the built wheel later on this afternoon which should give a better idea of the end product.
Now I'm off to Glasgow to research my next creation .....
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Wheels look great, Kim 8)
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Windows and portholes now cut out. Internal framing next task. I've used filler along the inside of the hull and smoothed them down prior to gluing on the framing.
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Very neat work there - should look stunning when it's finished.
Stuart
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Bit more progress to show. I have fitted the framing structure. Given the hull is 3-4mm thick I decided that I did not need full bulkheads. I used 10mm square softwood - probably pine - for the central frame and the cross beams. I put in reinforced sections at the mid points where the hull is likely to be lifted from. Glue used was epoxy. I then used balsa along the deck edge to keep it light and for easy in-situ triming to allow a good fit for the subdeck. The subdeck is 1mm plasticard. This will be painted the correct colour for the waterways and a wooden ply deck added on top allowing 5 mm at the side to create the waterways. In the pictures I have only laid the subdeck on. I still need to decide what access points I will make.
Does anyone know what colour the LNER used for decks in 1947? Post war there appears to have been variance between red and green but I wonder if the correct colour could be brown?
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Coming on nicely Mercury
I think the deck "waterways" were reddish 1965/69....not sure about green though....the only colour 1947 shot i have doesn't show the waterways, but i would Guess at brown, i think the tops of the paddle drums were that colour.
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Hi, nice looking model, looking forward to seeing how it develops!
Deck waterways and and non planked areas of deck would have been brown in 1947 as they are on the ship post 2000 rebuilt, not that there are many ares then that wernt planked, the waterways, wheelhouse roof, the near 'semi circle' front end of the forward deckhouse's roof in front of the bridge, and the funnel fiddles all that same brown, but the small trianglular sponson decks at main deck level, forward and after of the sponsons would have been black as they are now.
Cheers, Andrew
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Finally managed to get back on to Waverley tonight after a few weeks repairing another model.
Tonight I did two things I've meant to do for a long time. Firstly I attached the milling attachment to my Unimat 4 lathe. I've only had the blooming thing since 2003!! I then used it to drill out the pins on a Perkins brass rudder which I turned sideways and then resoldered using a blow torch (second first for me). I then skinned the blade in plastic card and added some strip for detail. Interestingly the rudders on Waverley and Maid of the Loch are both a bit of a botch job now with sections welded on to make them bigger. At the time of Waverley's rebuild a number of different rudder designs were drawn up and tested on a 1:48 scale model but in the end it was left as a standard barn door type.
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Right - rudder done - slightly oversize but all the better for it.
Now looking at the rubbing strakes. What material do people advise. In the past I've used 5mm square plastic from metcalf mouldings but they don't do it any more. All the general wood I can get just snaps as Waverley's stern is very tight.
Any bright suggestions out there?
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Hi Mercury
I make my rubbing strakes by laminating layers of thin ply - 0.6, 0.8 or 1mm. You could also use thin strip spruce. Glue the first srip down and then build up with more strips till you have the correct thickness. The stern rubbing strake on Old Trafford was done this way.
All the best
stuart
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Hi Mercury
I make my rubbing strakes by laminating layers of thin ply - 0.6, 0.8 or 1mm. You could also use thin strip spruce. Glue the first strip down and then build up with more strips till you have the correct thickness.
stuart
That's a clever idea. Thanks for that.
Just one question. How do you shape it once it's glued into position please? I'm thinking of the curved edges close to the hull.
(sorry to intrude, Mercury)
ken
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Hi Mercury,
On my Lochiel, to do the belting, which also has a tight curve round the stern, I made templates (3, I think. to go round the stern) and cut the shapes out of obechi sheet. took a bit of carving to get right. These were epoxied & bolted through the hull (2mm bolts), then when set a thin strip of obechi glued round the outside to cover bolt heads.
This shows the stern just after I had finished the belting
regards
Clark
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This stuff looks interesting -
http://www.mobilemarinemodels.com/acatalog/Rubber_Fenders.html
On my KGV i used plasticard strips Laminated to thickness as described previously. Comes in 4.8mm width so a skim of filler smooths and brings you up to 5mm.
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/plasticard-strip.html
Regards,
Kim
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Hi Mercury
I make my rubbing strakes by laminating layers of thin ply - 0.6, 0.8 or 1mm. You could also use thin strip spruce. Glue the first strip down and then build up with more strips till you have the correct thickness.
stuart
If the strake requires a curve where it meets the hull and is difficult to reach with sandpaper an alternative is to cover the area of the stern with Cling Film and make the first lamination LONGER than neccessary and clamp it in place. Glue the rest of the laminations on one by one. When dry the rubbing strake will be a 'mould' of the stern profile. You can then remove it, sand it and finally fit it.
All the best
stuart
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Brilliant. Why didn't I think of that.
cheers
Ken
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Appologies for the slow response but thanks for all the great ideas. I'll be working on the laminated method.
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I tried casting in the rubbing strake when fibreglassing the hull, but ended up making it out of 1/4"x1/8" obechi strip steamed .
The grp one never came clean out of the mould Sandy
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Picking up the thread again. I'm currently working on the sponsons and struggling slightly to get them to work out. I want them to be as light as possible and to be open underneath. My previous paddler (Mercury) has fully enclosed boxes so it was dead easy - top and bottom formers and then skinned with ply. On Waverley with the paddle drum and the openings at each end I'm finding it a bit more difficult. How have others framed up and skinned their sponsons?
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Hi Richard, I havn't reached the sponson stage on my build yet, but maybe you could fabricate them the same method as Mercury....the drum need only be replicated above prom. deck level, below the landing platforms. I'm assuming you want the larger opening underneath to prevent any wheel choking. The 30s LMS paddlers were cetainly easier for the modeller!
Would be good to see a pic of your progress on the sponsons so far
regards
Clark
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Some progress - bridge starting to shape up.
I have managed to make up my first sponson but found the drawing showed the shape at deck edge -not belting so it was about 5mm short all round. Oh well - I'll have to put that one down to experience.
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You'll never get it finished in time for Paddler Day :(
Only three weeks to go!
Regards
Eddy
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It'll be ready in time for paddler day
2011...........
Sadly pesky things like work and a young family keep getting in the way ;D
Or that could just be an excuse for slow progress...
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Currently working through the paddle wheels from Clyde Model Boats. It's different for me to work in brass and quite impressive how quickly they come together. Weight doesn't appear to be too bad which was my concern. I'll post some pictures once I have completed them.
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Finally finished the wheels which look really good and were pretty easy to put together. Each wheel weighs 160g's which is heavier than I would like but should hopefully be OK. I believe in the latest sets Kim has changed out the brass floats for wood to make them look more realistic for LNER boats and to reduce weight a bit.
Has anyone painted their wheels yet - I plan to spray them as I think this should result in a thinner coating?
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Nice work Richard....
I've never had a lot of success with paint on brass - It doesn't seem to last two minutes before it comes off, even after using an etching primer first!
So I'd suggest looking at chemical blackening...... I've never tried it myself, but I do intend to!
Take a look at the following article, it should give an insight into what is involved and the products that are available: http://www.modelshipwrightsdatabase.com/Articles/MetalBlackening.pdf
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Richard,
Yes, i have painted my wheels .... :shhh ...I used a brush and the paint is to heavy by hand. You will probably be better spraying them. I'm almost sure that Ian (peewee) and Stuart Badger have sprayed their wheels and look much better.
Also i believe a good prep before painting is to dip them in vinegar first (and allow to dry) ... but do a google search or trial on scrap before taking my word..
You are right i have changed to laser cut and etched floats which does lessen the weight of the wheel ....
Looking forward to seeing her progress.
Regards,
Kim
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Finally managed to secure the first sponson to the hull as a trial fit. A bit of bodging still to be done at the sponson / hull join but it is strong enough on four bolts. I intend to fit some strengthening to the hull internals to spread the load.
Hopefully by making the sponsons removable it will make it much easier to paint the hull and to maintain and fit the wheels.
The paddle drum front is an early trial piece and will be replaced - I've worked out how the vents should work out now following some more pouring over pictures.
It's finally starting to look like a paddle steamer!
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Hi Richard,
Looking good there, nice to see the "sticky out bits" going on! Did you make a complete paddle drum, or are the sponsons open inside (if that makes any sense!)
I remember doing the paddle drum front on my wee Waverley, I think it took about four goes, I eventually scanned a picture & printed it out at the right size to use as a template.
regards
Clark
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Clark,
Yes I've made a complete paddle drum - it has been the best way to get the right shape. The rest of the sponson is open underneath and so if I have a problem I can cut open the drum to allow more airfow and prevent suckdown.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one to struggle with the vents. Unfortunately I am working off the plan published by Waverley Excursions which is frankly inaccurate. I'm not sure how this is as it is obviously a copy of the original GA but I've found numerous errors in basic sizes, windows etc.. Perhaps the most glaring one is the fact that it shows 11 paddle vents rather than the 8 on the ship as built. Either this was a change in the original design or the Inglis Drawing office wasn't much cop! As 8 was always the NB /LNER standard this is a bit of a mystery. Anyway - other Waverley builders beware!!!
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I also used plans which showed various mistakes. There is a good picture in various books showing her starboard sponson whilst berthed at Craigendoran on her first day in service....I used that to get a more accurate shape/vents etc.
I may be wrong but I don't think the original Inglis drawings for her exist anymore.
regards
Clark
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lookig really good, I hadn't noticed details that were wrong on the plan as I haven't yet used mine, have to dig it out and check :D
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Clark,
I have a copy of the original GA dated 11th July 1948 which I think I downloaded from paddleducks. It's quite interesting as even though it is dated well after Waverley was finished it contains numerous differences from the ship as finished including the 11 vents.
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Thats interesting, though I'm glad they went with the 8 vents, as I think they look just great as she was built.
Do you plan to make the facings out of ply?
(edit...I see you did make the facings out of ply, Richard, I was wondering whether it would be easier to make them from plastic sheet?)
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Clark,
I may try my next attempt in plastic as I think it will be easier to shape accurately. I was also wondering what people use to treat ply prior to the final coat? I've tried standard primers but on a number of models I've had problems with the paint cracking over the ply - particuarly on bends.
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For the hull I used resin and tissue but on superstructure and bulwarks I just use sanding sealer for the first 2 or 3 coats then treat it as a styrene or grp surface, seems to work well enough...
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I've heard people talk about sanding sealer. Is it like a dope? Where can you get it?
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It is lke dope but with a fine powder mixed in (talcum?) I just get it from the model shop, either 4D or Modelzone...
...just did a quick search, here's one you can get by post http://balsamart.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=109_198 - but shops usually have it
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....or you could try making some from dope.... http://www.scale-models.co.uk/tutorials/362-how-make-sanding-sealer.html
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Many thanks Mick - I'll follow this up.
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I've now built the starboard sponson which has turned out reasonably well. The fan on this side is much better so I'm going to remake the fan on the port side as well.
Can anyone recommend a supplier of mechano chain and sprockets and the part numbers for a suitable set?
At 1:1 scale Waverley Excursions has announced an extended season on the West Coast for 10 days in late April / early May. They plan to sail right up to Portree and will be doing it over the bank holidays associated with Easter and the Royal Wedding. Personally I can't think of anywhere I'd rather be when the media descents into "Royal Wedding" mode than safely isolated from it somewhere in the Hebrides on the deck of a paddler.....
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I've used Mecanno chain a few times, and have to say that it's not that good.... It tends to jump off the sprockets on a regular basis, no matter how well you try to line them up!
Stuart told me about another company that he got his chain and sprockets from for his Connaught build, and they are superb - http://www.motionco.co.uk/chain-sprockets-c-21.html
Yes they are dearer than Mecanno, but still reasonably priced in my opinion....
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Richard,
Your sponsons look very neat.
Re - Chain
Squires also do a plastic chain but i have never used it so couldn't comment on it's suitability. (Top of page 376)
I would also recommend motion co.
If you decide to persue the Meccano route let me know as i have acquired a small mountain of the stuff lol
Regards,
Kim
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Come now Eddy,
I've built 10 model paddle steamers all powered by Meccano chain and sprockets, with no trouble at all.
Walter's WAVERLEY has been sailing on Meccano chain since 1972
Sandy
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Hi,
Still fettling the sponsons -I've cut out and marked out ply decks to go on top of the sponson which makes up the small gaps on the sponson hull join. The decking on the sponson has changed a lot over the years but originally I think it went right out to the deck edge. Interestingly there was a waterway along the top of the hull separating the sponson decking from that on the hull. This should make it easier to mask the slight gap between the sponson and the hull. Saddly my accurancy is not good enough for perfect fits as yet.
A couple of pictures posted below.
On unrelated topics I found some fantastic pictures yesterday on the Ballast Trusts pages on flickr. They have posted about 250 pictures from the Dan MacDonald collect including some good paddler shots. They have a great shot of the 1878 Claymore - probably the most beutiful ship ever to sail the West Coast. One of my personal holy grails is to find a set of plans including hull lines for one of the fiddle bowed passenger ships such as Davar, Kintyre, Kinloch, Claymore, St Sunniva (I), St Nicholas etc. I have a GA for the Davar and know of rigging plans for the Claymore and St Sunniva but have new found hull lines as yet. As most of these ships were built prior to 1890 perhaps this isn't surpirsing.
Also for any fans of Para Handy there is a reading of the first book now available on i-Tunes. It's complete and unabridged - 4 1/2hrs for £6 or so. Perfect for modelling to on a cold drech winters night!!
Ramble over.
Regards,
Richard
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Hi Richard,
Coming along nicely! As far as I can remember from doing my Waverley I think the waterway you mention, at the hull egde/sponson area, was covered by some sort of thin metal plates...I assume to stop people tripping up...sure I have pics of this somewhere, will have a look.
Clark
found this
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Great - thanks Clark.
Yes I can see the wide cover plate in this picture. I think it is currently painted silver - will look during the summer.
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Clark,
Perhaps the most glaring one is the fact that it shows 11 paddle vents rather than the 8 on the ship as built. Either this was a change in the original design or the Inglis Drawing office wasn't much cop! As 8 was always the NB /LNER standard this is a bit of a mystery. Anyway - other Waverley builders beware!!!
I don't think inaccuracy is uncommon or limited to Waverley or Ingils... I have had to re work a lot of drawings before production work can begin. One of the worst drawings i have seen had the Paddle wheels drawn the wrongway around not to mention the other defects... yet a perfectly suitable vessel was built from the drawings.
It would be interesting to step back in time and see what & how the actual builders dealt with the drawings. ,,,,,,, to be fair & in respect to them , they didn't have the computer advantage we have. I can only imagine their might on occasion have been some colourful language in the communication's ...
As a point of interest, the hull lines for the Waverley as supplied by Waverley may well have originated from one of the old members of the Model Steamer Club ( Mr. J. McNulty snr.)
I have all but given up my personal search for the original Builders lines for Waverley as I suspect they may have been lost as with so many drawings..... Thank goodness for the likes of Paddle Ducks for keeping history in the present....
Regards,
Kim
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:whistle ....as Talisman says....
"It would be interesting to step back in time and see what & how the actual builders dealt with the drawings"
How true Kim........oh to be a fly on the wall not only in the loft....but also the plate shop
Remember the lines/Drawings created in the loft were full size....then taken to the plate shop....but no... not used as templates :nono...but simply as reference to create the marked out hull expansion shapes on the real plate
We may have computers now to re-create these steps....but we as an engineering society/group have lost the fundemental skills of creating or building these structures from first principals..... :sorry .....Derek
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I'd guess to be fair the drawings we tend to have now are General Arrangement drawings. These would not have been used to build the ship but are really a record of overall design of the vessel. During the build process of any construction project many detail changes occur and it is notoriously difficult for these all to be captured in the final As-Built drawings as everyone is more interested in getting on with the next build.
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Finally managed to get sanding sealer from my local model shop although it took about six weeks for them to get it delivered as they don't keep it in stock. Also managed to get some clear resin for the windows so have to get them in this summer before the resin goes off.
So I'm now starting to prepare the hull for painting. One question I'm trying to resolve is the half round moulding on the hull at promenade deck level. In pictures from 1947 there is a brown line but it is not clear if it was a moulding on just painted on. From the fifties to the rebuild it was removed and the hull was just white and in 2000 it was replaced as a moulding which it remains today. Does anyone know if this was a moulding when the ship was built or was it just a painted line? I have a suspicion it was painted on with a moulding on the paddle sponsons only.
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Dont EVER be stuck for sanding sealer. A very old aeromodellers trick was to mix cheap talcum powder with clear aircraft dope and you have the sanding sealer you had to wait for!. It works a treat. Walter.,
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Hi Richard,
I'm almost sure that the moulding was only present bellow the bow and stern Fairleads (P&S) and around the Sponsons. So the brown line would just have been painted on between these points ? (good news, given the price of half round styrene :) )
Regards,
Kim
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hi Richard,
This is the only pic I can find at the moment to show the moulding going right round the hull...its a bad scan but should show the moulding when she was coated in red lead in 1947/48 winter.
Clark
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Also found this, confirming the moulding did exist till the mid 50s. As Kim says they left the sections of moulding at the fairleads aft and the mooring bollards forward for some reason??
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Thanks guys - this very clearly answers the question. I'm pleased she had both mouldings all the way round as I think this lifts the hull. Not going to be cheap to buy the half round however...
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The lower moulding, between the cream and black, didn't go right round the hull, it stopped in the region of the two small rectangular windows, near the stern, before the galley portholes.
There seems to be no brown line here either, the cream butts up against the black, a slight step is visible in pictures because of this.
Clark
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Thanks Clark.
Currently fitting the subdecks. Plan is to fit them, fill and smooth the edges, fit the mouldings, spray the hull, fit widows - not sure if I will sure clear resin or perspex yet - and then add varnished ply for the deck.
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A couple of years ago I was at a plastic modeling show and one of the stands was selling metre lengths of moulding produced by EVERGREEN. tHEY MAKE SEVERAL SIZES AND THEY WERE VERY CHEAP! I will keep a lookout at IPMS shows and if I find a stockist I will post details. Regards, Walter.
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I've now fitted the subdecks and purchased the half round strip - rather painful at £18 for a few pieces of plastic strip but I needed six packets to get around the boat twice.
So as the weather is looking up it's time to go out and get the paint. Any help / suggestions here much appreciated. I intend to use car spray paints and humbrol enamels.
So my guesses at 1947 LNER colours:
Underbody - India Red - Red primer?
Waterline - Thin White
Hull - Black
Upperworks - Biscuit / Stone - i.e. off white or white with a very slight touch of brown. Not Cream.
Waterways - India Red or silver?
Deck shelters - Scumbled
Hull lining - Yellow and brown.
Paddle boxes black with yellow lining?
I have a couple of questions:
1 - Was there a separate boot topping below the waterline?
2 - I seem to remember from somewhere that the gold lining around the hull and sponsons was yellow in 1947?
3 - What colour was the open deck area on the sponson?
Very grateful for any help here.
Mercury
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Hi Richard,
The last few inches of hull above the top moulding, also including the plated areas at the bow (spirket plates?) were white in 1947, not the stoney colour. I have a very grainy colour video clip of her in that year, but it shows this. I don't know why they don't paint these areas white now.
The sponson deck areas - I did a lot of searching for info for my model, (mid 50s livery though), didn't find out much, and painted them black. Certainly on Jeanie Deans after the war these areas were planked.
The lining certainly went to yellow on all ships in the 50s before it disapeared...not sure what colour the LNER used in 1947.
regards
Clark
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Hi Clark. I have a big problem with trying to match fullsize colours with scale models. Remember, your model is the same as seeing the fullsize at a distance of about 200yards. All light colours tend to lighten and fade with distance. Dark colours tend to flatten and lose their intensity. Look at military models , model soldiers, trains etc from a couple of feet away and perfectly matched colours will always look darker than illustrations of the full size.
So, you pays your money and takes your choice. When I used to make military models competitively I always did rather well in competitions for appeerance as opposed to three dimensional oil pasintings. Regards, Walter.
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Hull painting is going reasonably well although my first attempt at the White didn't work. I used halfords ford ivory which was, yes too ivory! I then tried my local car parts store which has a range of car plan paints. They have 25 different shades of White all displayed in a neat row so that you can see the differences well. I've remasked the White and will respray it tonight.
Had too great sails on Waverley during the western isles sojourn. Fort William to Iona which ended up being a round mull cruise with a quick stop at the mishnish in Tobermory for a pint as it was too rough to land at the sacred isle and a very special trip round Rassay from Kyle of Lochalsh on the day of the royal wedding. This was one of the nicest trips I've had inboard- perfect scenery, warm sunny day and a really nice company onboard. Even the crew appeared to relax.
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Just realised that the spelling / grammar of my last post left something to be desired. No I've not had five pints but I'm using my wife's iPad and haven't quite got used to the text recognition function.
That's my excuse anyway!!!!
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Looking forward to seeing the painted hull, Richard. What are you using for the lining/waterline? I have some gold self adhesive lining that I will be using (can't remember the manufacturer will check later) but I know several colours are available.
Clark
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I generally use trimline tape and I'm planning to use that for the White and yellow. Currently painting the brown half round strip.
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Some pictures attached of progress with the painting. One side is fine but I couldn't get the windows on the port side aft to work with the waterline so I will have to re-do them and respray this side. I've also started glassing in the windows which can just be seen.
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Looking really good very realistic, hope mine will look as good when painted. Is that a rudder I can see in the last pic? Just out of curiosity hope you don't mind me asking but how wide is your hull?
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Thanks for the positive comment. The hull is 7.5"wide. It is the rudder but I've increased it in size from the scale rudder to improve the turning circle.
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As Jamesie says, nice paint job, did you use halfords sprays Richard? A pity about the ports, I know they are difficult to mark out due to the flair of the hull in that area. At least it is just one side, maybe you will get away with just respraying the lower portion of the hull?
Clark
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Thanks for that, I was working on mine but wasn't happy :( with the space between my superstructures (front observation lounge etc) and the hull edge. Measured my plan and it was 7" wide, got out the calculate the real boat is 30'.2 divided it by 48 and yes 7.5". I knew my plan wasn't long enough but forgot to check the breadth >:(. With my hull constructed I can't fix it so will just have to live with it. Sorry for going slightly away from your build but just thought I would explain my strange question!! I will post more about this on my build blog. I hope you get the back fixed with out to much bother as the rest looks so good, hope you can keep it as a localised repair as would be a shame to have to repaint the rest.
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Having moved overseas for a few years to take up the chance to build a real ship I'm afraid I've put the Waverley into storage as it's a bit too big to lug around the world. A month after arriving I'm already regretting it so I have cunning plans in place to start something newer (but a bit smaller). Waverley will be finished but it will be 2014 before I'm back in the UK so the build will be mothballed until then. Thanks for all your help and comments so far.
Richard