Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: chipmonk on June 23, 2009, 06:13:31 AM
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Hi all
Well after a too long absence I am finally going to build another paddler. After looking around at some prototypes I have decided to build the Monarch. At only 47' long I have just enough workshop space to build her in 1:12. She is the smallest passenger caring paddler around and is based on the Isle of Wight. So with a little bit of organising I have organised a photo trip for some detailed shots of her. I have drawn up some general arrangement drawings with my CAD system and have acquired a suitable GRP hull. Mind you it will need the bow re-working. Here is an image of her to show you what I have let myself in for.
Cheers Chris. ;D
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Nice looking ship. Keep us posted with plenty of build pictures. :goodluck
ken
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At 1:12 scale you can go to town on all the detail stuff which should make an impressive model. Don't forget you can probably use dolls house suppliers for lots of fixtures and fittings, as well as figures to bring it to life....
Regards
Eddy
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I've been considering a model of her myself! I have a lot of pictures and a small GA rom the original owner if that helps.
Look forward to seeing your progress.
Cheers
Chris
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Hi again.
Thanks for the support and any info will be greatly apreciated.
Cheers Chris :D
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Hi Chris,
Remind me of your adress and I'll get some stuff in the post to you.
Chris
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Chipmonk,
I've sent your address to Chris via a PM - It's not wise to post personal data such as that on a public forum, so I've removed your post from this thread....
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks Eddy, I should have done it that way :-[. Put it down to a sudden rush of blood to the head.
Cheers Chris.
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Chris,
To save dealing with Royal Mail for now use the link below to access a selection of Monarch pictures. I will add more tomorrow night from my recent trip on her down the Medina.
http://channelimages.com/MVBalmoral/Gallery/Monarch/
The link will remain active for 7 days. Help yourself Chris, and anyone else! Copyright remains with Channel Images/Chris Jones.
Cheers
Chris
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Cheers Chris the photos will be really useful. I am going over to see her on our way back from the Weymouth show. So I can add to the photo collection. ooh all that planking ;). Once again many thanks.
Cheers Chris
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More pictures uploaded.
Chris
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Good luck with the build, if we can be of any help at all just give us a shout.
All the best,
Matt
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Matt,
Just as a matter of interest, do you have a set of plans for the Monarch? It is something I might consider building as I like the idea of a large scale model...
Regards
Eddy
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Haha!! If you think that Monarch was built from a master set of plans you'd be very much mistaken!! There is a sketchy plan which I think Chris has got a copy of as well but I am currently making detailed measurements of the ship to create a decent set of plans.
We will in the next few months lay up a dozen or so GRP hulls built to scale (not yet sure which, so ideas on a postcard please) as we've had so many requests for this.
As a note of warning....I will personally throttle any modeller that uses a even a dab of yellow paint on your models-it's 23 1/2 ct gold leaf on the boat, applied by by own fair hand!!
Seriously though, best of luck with the current construction, be patient for us to get some decent plans together and any ideas for the scale of the ready made hulls are more than welcome.
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4ft's a nice size - will fit in the back of most cars!
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I beleive the Monarch is 42 feet in length?
Assuming I'm right, 1:12 scale would be 42", 1:10 scale 50.4", and 1:8 scale 63", so my vote would go for a 1:8 scale hull - Still not too large for transport, but it allows a wealth of detail to be added. The downside to a 1:8 scale model is finding suitable figures to put onboard....
Regards
Eddy
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Considering postage costs, I would go for 1: 12 scale also easier to transport.
Regards,
Gerald.
PS How about molding it in four sections that could be joined?
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Hi all, thanks for the encouragement. I have "acquired" a GRP hull that with a bit of surgery should be usable. See photos. I also have managed to convert my attempt at a CAD drawing to PDF format for you to have a laugh at ;). So things are beginning to move along, all be it slowly.
Cheers Chris
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Thanks for your input, we shall work on the mould. I didn't realise that you guys would want something so large!!
All proceeds from the hulls will go towards the boiler fund, which is coming along nicely. I know I shall live to regret this question, but what would you chaps consider a fair price if we made them up?
Chipmonk, the hull you have looks pretty good, although to be accurate you will have to straighten the bow up which shouldn't be too difficult with a bit of car body filler! ;)
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Ere!!! Why the bloody hell am I a junior member of this group...surely I'm the only member to drive a paddle steamer everyday...I should be a higher being!
I look forward to seeing your model completed, bring her down to the Island and let me have a drive of it and I might just let you have a drive of the real thing!
Regards,
Matt
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Thanks for your input, we shall work on the mould. I didn't realise that you guys would want something so large!!
The fact is that scale plays a large part in wether a model will sail succesfully or not Matt, generally the larger the better, though transportation has to be taken into account! Remember that each time you reduce the original hull by half in length, you reduce the volume (and hence the displacement) to 1/4 - So imagine if your vessel is 42 feet in length and has a displacement of 20 tons, a model at 1:2 (half size) would be 21 feet long with a displacement of 5 tons...... Now work it out when you get to sensible model sizes, and the equations get frightening! That's why so many paddler models are so "tender".
All proceeds from the hulls will go towards the boiler fund, which is coming along nicely. I know I shall live to regret this question, but what would you chaps consider a fair price if we made them up?
Based on the few paddler hulls that are currently available commercially, I would suggest between £50-£80 depending on which scale you build the hulls at - That's the sort of figure the commercial hull suppliers would be charging. Postage is generally between £10-£15 within the UK.
Regards
Eddy
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Ere!!! Why the bloody hell am I a junior member of this group...surely I'm the only member to drive a paddle steamer everyday...I should be a higher being!
Stick in and you might get promotion, I'm sure a tea boy at the paddler day would be most usefull :hehe
(Sorry i just couldn't resist it )
I look forward to seeing your model completed, bring her down to the Island and let me have a drive of it and I might just let you have a drive of the real thing!
Regards,
Matt
Which reminds me of a story about a captain of a paddler who used to practice bringing my Dad's model Jupiter along side piers as he struggled with the real thing. I believe his boat handling improved as he didn't hit any piers for the rest of the season :)
Just out of curiosity what qualification do you need for Monarch?
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Boatmaster and engineering quals. She is quite unique in that the skipper is in full control of the boiler, engine and helm-bit like patting your tummy and rubbing your head whilst standing on one leg and singing the engineers song!
And as for practicing with a model....I wouldn't suggest it!! :D
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Hi Monarch.
You are correct about the hull,both the bow needs re modelling and a slight mod to the stern. It is going into monkenstein's lab (the nickname the family have given my workshop after seeing how I mod figures. ooh nasty :oops). The bow has to be split open and re shaped to give a vertical bow form and the stern is too rounded. The original has a slightly curved straight transom (well it looks like that in the photo's I have been given, cheers Chris). Still must get on I have to lay permanent marker buoys in our club water. To keep the pesky fisher folk out.
Cheers Chris
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Well construction proper has started, see photo's. The small fluffy moggy in the photo is Pickles my foreman, she will get into quite a few photo's
As planned while returning from Weymouth we detoured across the Solent and found the monarch moored at Newport. Unfortunately she was closed up and not steaming that day ??? I later found out that this was due to staff sickness. I hope you have recovered.Still I managed to take lots of fairly useful close up shots. The only problem is there is no scale to work from. Normally I put a marked rule in the photo for scale. Still I'm sure I can work round this.
As you can see I have reworked the bow and by now rebuilt the stern.
Next comes the rudder and the positioning and alignment of the paddle shaft in its bearings. Then comes the chain drive then the paddles. These are very unusual having seven floats connected to a single central arm. I am designing them now and will get a fellow club member who has access to a laser cutting machine to cut them out of 6mm acrylic for the main arms. Mind you that will have to wait until the new school term ;). In the mean time I have lots to think about.
Cheers Chris
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Chris,
I didn't realise Monarchs wheels were so unusual - I've never seen wheels quite the same as those on any other boat, but at least they look relatively easy to make compared to some I can think of!
Regards
Eddy
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I can quite honestly say...they are unique!! I'm trying to make some time to make a geometrical plan of them!
Matt
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Hi all, time for an update.
Well the hull has been modified (twice :squareone). It did not look right the first go.
As you can see the majority of the deck beams are in place and the fore deck has been fixed down. Trying to get a good bond between GRP, hardwood and styrene sheet is not easy but acrylic adhesive seems to be holding.
I had a session on the lathe and have converted the main drive sprocket from 4mm bore to 6mm. Not as simple as just boring it out though. The mounting collar was a press fit into the sprocket so when it was bored out it would have fallen apart ??? So I had to make a new one and mount it to the sprocket, then bore them both out. Still it was worth the headache (I think).
I am still not happy about the shape of the rudder so I will probably re shape it at a later date.
Next job after the rest of the decks are in place is the motor mount and a mounting plate for it. Then I can connect up the drive and radio etc.
Then on to the fun bit, the paddles :o. Being a bit impatient I will make a temporary set from styrene sheet so that I can do basic manoeuvring testing. As I will be sailing her on a few portable show pools I have enough room to fit independent paddle drives if its needed :shhh .I know its naughty but I will need the steerage.
Still heaps to do. All that superstructure in lovely styrene sheet and all the details. Must get back to the lab ;) Well shed.
Cheers Chris M
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Hi guys, well another two weeks have gone by and time for another update. I have made and fitted the temporary paddles and I think I will mod them. looking at the photos of the real thing, I think I need to increase the blade depth. Still its not difficult to add blade area. All of the sub decks are in place and I am working on the bullwork cappings (half done by now). Next are the paddle boxes. then out to the garden test tank (pond). If all goes well, in a couple of weeks off to the club lake for some further testing(stability, turning circle, speed etc. Then we will see if I have built a "right lemon" or not. I will keep you posted.
Cheers Chris M.
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Thanks for the update Chris, good to see your making progress....
Can I just make one small comment - I hope you'll take it in the spirit it's intended (ie to help!), but it appears you either have the paddlewheels mounted too high, or the sponsons are too low, I don't know which? If you look at the photo of the real vessel posted earlier, and compare it with yours, the paddleshaft should be inline with the sponson, yours appears to well above the sponson - or is it an optical illusion?
As I said, the comment is meant to be constructive, as it can easily be changed now, but later it may be too late!
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Eddy. Yes you are correct the drive shaft is slightly high. There are two reasons for this. Firstly I did not have access to that photo when I drew up the drawings . And secondly when I looked at the photo's of her it struck me that the paddles went below the waterline a very long way. I have found that models with deep set paddles tend to to be a little unstable, tending to dig in. So I used a little "artistic licence".
That is why I always try to test as early in construction as I can. As you put it, it can easily be changed now. We shall soon see.
Cheers for the advice Chris M
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Good man Chris, I had a feeling there would be a simple explanation for it....
I agree wholeheartedly about testing as early as possible, it's one thing I always try to do, especially with a paddler. Not only can you get an idea of how it will perform, but it also allows you to judge accurately how much weight you have to play with and still end up with a stable model.
I'm looking forward to watching the build as you progress, as I really like the Monarch and may have a go at my own version at a later date....
Regards
Eddy
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Hi guys, well as promised the beasty has gotten her hull wet and the results are "promising". The temporary paddles worked fine (I am still going to increase the blade area though). What shocked me was the amount of ballast that I had to use to get her to the water line. 2x 6V 10AH gel cells, 3x 6v 3AH gel cells, all my lead offcuts and three bags of lead shot that I use for trimming :o .
The drive was too slow on six volts so I ran her on twelve. The motor pulls just 0.25 amps on load so I will have plenty of spare capacity for any extra effects that I care to install. The foreman was a bit peeved that I got in the way of her sushi bar (goldfish pond) ;D. Still I buy her cat food.
What next? well the paddle boxes I think, then to sort out the battery and electrics positions then off to the lake for her maiden voyage. I must find out her turning circle. If its too big then I will have to install the second motor and drive. Then make up a rudder operated switcher to cut the inboard paddle. That should tighten the turns. I just can't get on with independent throttles or proportional mixers.
Cheers Chris M
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The foreman seems to have her own shopping bag ready to pick up her dinner from the sushi bar - clever moggy!
I'm not sure about the blue skirt you appear to be wearing in the last shot though Chris! :)
Seriously, it looks like your getting there.... Now onto the interesting bits to make her look like the real thing.
Regards
Eddy
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I am not sure about "clever moggy". She sits right on the edge of the pond and gets confused because her tail gets sopping wet :-\. Defiantly "blond".
As to my alleged blue skirt that's the Boss . Mine is beige :o.
I think I had better sign off before I make a total twit of myself.
Cheers Chris M
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Hi all, well the beast had her maiden voyage yesterday and the results were "interesting". I was going to take some shots of her gliding gracefully across our club lake but the weather nearly finished her off :o. as she is, she steers like a block of concrete and has all the speed of ,well a block of concrete. As a result when the wind grabbed her she crabbed across the lake and would not come round >:(. Only making any headway when the gust eased. Needless to say I had my hands full and did not get any photo's.
To help the power problem, I have upped the supply voltage to 18v and increased the rudder throw. Next test will be in calmer conditions.
If I get the time I will post a couple of shots to show my progress.She is looking like a paddler at last with a funnel and the rear saloon fitted.
Cheers Chris M
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Just minor teething troubles Chris, so don't be disheartened!!
I'm looking forward to the photos so we can see how she's looking....
Regards
Eddy
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The real one doesn't do that.....honest!!!
Took her out in an F9 a few weeks ago, keep trying and I'm sure you'll crack it in the end!!
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Is she still clonking? Captain sir. R.G.Y.
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Hi all, as promised a couple of photo's to show how she is progressing. She is beginning to get that steamer character.
As you can see the laser cut parts for the paddles have arrived and I have started to assemble them. Mind you it takes longer to make the jigs than it does to assemble the paddles. But it is worth it.
Next back to the lake to see if the drive mods have made a difference to the handling. I must remember to check the wind speed first ;).
Cheers Chris M
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This will probably only make any sense to UK members, but why is it that the paddlewheel frames remind me of the Isle of Man? ;)
Looking good though!
Eddy
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Ok, (Hands up you know why i ask \ see other posts )
Your method of paddle wheel construction looks like it will work well, however I'm interested in trying to produce a paddle wheel set for commercial sale and would be very interested in your reasoning / choice of construction.
She does seem toi be coming along nicely.
Regards
Kim
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This will probably only make any sense to UK members, but why is it that the paddlewheel frames remind me of the Isle of Man? ;)
Looking good though!
Eddy
It does look like the Running Man.
Regards,
Gerald.
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I'm pleased to say that there is no clonking!! Twas a simple case of replacing a set of flexible coupling in the end!
There are other issues though, which I will put on a separate post.
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Hi all. Things have been a little quiet on the build recently. I'm afraid "life" just got in the way again.
However a bit of progress has been squeezed in. As you can see the new paddles have been painted and fitted and she has been in the test tank (garden pond). I then had to lower the paddle shaft ( don't say a word Eddie) to get them to work. A carrying cradle has been made to help shift her about, after I strained my back getting her back in the workshop. As a result of the rebuild she should be a little lighter as well.
The next big job is cleaning her up and spraying her with "Halfords" acrylic plastic primer. A job for the work shop at work I think. Then another trip down to the club lake for some more testing. Weather permitting, right now its slashing down with rain and blowing a gale. I don't mind a light shower but draw the line with it coming at me horizontally :o
I shall keep you posted as I progress.
Cheers Chris.
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It's looking really good Chris... Don't forget to take some photos of it on the water, and a short video too if possible?
Regards
Eddy
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Those wheels don't look too bad!! You'll have to come on a Monarch driving day to learn how to handle the model!!!
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Hi Mat. I'd love to come on a driving day. How's your insurance though ;D.
Cheers Chris.
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Very good-if you crash it, you get a fetching neck scar.................(once it heals)!!
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Hi all.Well at long last the gods of the weather and work finally got their act together and I managed to get the wee beasty into the club lake to test the new paddles, drive train and electrics. And everything went well. As I posted earlier she was unresponsive on the water and more than a little underpowered. So now I have the proper paddles, taken about 6 kilo's of lead and batteries out, lowered the drive shaft and fitted a FET speed controller. The old "Maplin" one used standard transistors and I was amazed with the loss of voltage when it was in the circuit (over 1/2 volt). Now this one only looses about 0.2 V. So she performs OK on 12v however she has nothing "in reserve" so she probably will be run on 18v to give me a bit of power in case of trouble. Next its off to the workshop at work for spraying (not enough room in the shed) and I can get on with some of the finer detail. Incidental the mast has been made but it's from mahogany. I managed to acquire a piece from some old countertops they were throwing out at work so the mast is over 150years old ::). I know its not like the real boat but I could not resist it.
I will keep you informed as to the progress.
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Looking very good...I wish the real thing was that size!!
Matt
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Well here we are up to our whatsits in the fluffy white stuff and the model monarch looses all of her arctic camouflage ;).
As you can see from the photos she has been painted at last, mind you I am not the most popular person at work. Acrylic car primer really pongs. But it gives first class results. The paddles have also been painted but are waiting for a final coat of varnish before I fit them. The only things left to spray are the decks and the inside of the bulwarks but its too flaming cold. I shall start detailing the inside of the wheel house, does any body know where I can get a decent 50mm ships wheel the biggest I can find is 35mm and that looks a bit small.
Cheers Chris.
Ps Sorry about the rubbish photo's.
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It looks good Chris....
Ships wheels above about 40mm diameter are like hens teeth - Stuart Badger did a great little article on making your own at http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4223.0 (about the 9th posting I think?)
Failing that, try Kim at http://www.clydemodelboats.co.uk/ He's adding new stuff to his website all the time, so even though it isn't listed it's worth contacting him, and you'll be supporting a fellow Paddleduck into the bargain :)
Regards
Eddy
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I'll have a look in my spares box when I get a moment, got one off a toy pirate ship that's about that size.....
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She looks great!! Well done.
Can't type much else as have horribly broken arm and this has already taken me ten minutes to type!!
Can't wait to see her finished.
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Hi all, Well a few weeks have gone by and the project has come along some what. I must admit the more details she gets the more I like her. As you can see the hull has been lined. Most of the major deck fittings have been fabricated, painted and fitted and she now has both fore and saloon decks planked . I hope you like it Mat I read that before your accident this was one job you were going to do on the full sized "Monarch". Still back to the lathe to turn up the mast head flag staff cap.
Cheers Chris
PS I have just noticed a strange thing, in the last photo, the model of my skipper has a small crack in his left arm. Mat which arm did you break? and do you believe in voodoo.
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You absolute bugger!!! The model looks superb, and I cannot believe that there is a mini me in existence....is this the paddle steamer version of Madame Tussuad's? (make sure that the hair colour is imperial copper blonde...ginger to the uncultured!)
Paint those ghastly brass door handles black, and you've got a pretty good representation of the old girl-can't wait too see her sail with the real thing!!! Seeing as you're the first to model the Monarch, when she comes down I will give you Monarch's old pennant as a gift. Well done you!!
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............and it was the left arm!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sorry for the third reply-but thank you for spending the time modelling Monarch-it makes me very proud to know that she is so well loved. Basically, it's a great honour.
Cheers,
Matt
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The Monarch is looking very nice Chris - Should be completed just in time for summer (you know summer is July 27th this year?).
Well done!
Eddy
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Yes, looking very nice, the chap at the helm really sets it off!
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Looking good Chris.
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Hi all, thanks for the encouragement. Firstly the models door handles are now black ;) the skipper is booked for for his hair colour change appointment, And I am requesting a change of date for summer this year. It needs to be Friday July 16Th, hopefully that's when the model meets the real thing :D.
I must get her finished in time.
Cheers Chris M
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I might throw a spanner in the works for June I'm afraid!! Timings are not confirmed yet, but it looks like Monarch may be headed to Plymouth in June for filming for a BBC series. Hopefully she should only be away for a couple of weeks at most-but I'm always cautious where filming is concerned :os
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Hi Mat, did you mean July you will be away? However I may have a possible solution. How are you fixed for a midweek day in May, maybee the 26Th? I will have to make a special trip for it but I think it is worth it. The model is nearly ready, she has gone together quicker than I anticipated. I just have to build the railings and fit some of the smaller details and she is ready for her first public outing at the spring show at Beal Park in May.
Cheers Chris M.
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No-all set for June at the moment...just hoping the producer doesn't give me the traditional 3 days notice!!
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Trips up the Hamose souds good. Not sailing down are you.Mat R.G.Y.
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Hi all, Well she is now virtually complete. The railings were a bit of a pig to do but they are now done I just need the fore and mast pennants (not sure how yet) and the red duster at the stern (that's on order). From the pond test she is a little heavy (thank god I didn't fix the lead in permanently) and has a tiny list. Next thing a trip to the lake for last tests and she is ready for her first public outing in May ( now where can I get some light weight 1/12 scale passengers that won't cost more than the boat)? ;)
Cheers Chris M
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looking good, nice symmetrical railings.
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.... now where can I get some light weight 1/12 scale passengers that won't cost more than the boat....
Maybe in charity shops? I've seen those dolls house figures there though they usually look a bit 'victorian'
The model looks perect though, even without passengers ;D
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Your lucky, only a maximum of 12. R.G.Y.
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Well I opened my mouth too soon, it looks like I may have to alter the drive again :(.
The gearbox and motor I am using have started to grate when going forward. I can't lubricate it as it is a sealed unit. Upon checking with my colleague who supplied them, they have a "preferred direction of rotation". This means they will start to grate if run for too long the wrong way, and I am running it the wrong way. Perishing medical surplus (high quality but with "Issues"). So out with the motor, turn it round by 180deg and re wire the connection, oh what joy ;).
As for the figures, the dolls house ones come in basically two types; cast resin look good but are rather heavy, (12 of them and glug glug down she goes). Or the ones with cloth clothes, nice and light but the cloth looks like 25mm thick armour plating. I don't think she will be having many passengers.
Cheers Chris M
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Brilliant!! Wish you could have made the 15th May - it would have been great as part of the flotilla!
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Thank's Mat I am glad you like it. Now for some good news. I think I may be able to bring the model over for the 15Th May after all. But I need some further details, place, times, parking etc. Have you any?
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Oh wow! Drop me an email at info@medinamonarch.co.uk and I'll send them out.
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Hi all,she finally had a proper test at the lake today and she went like a charm. no horrible grinding noise, glided along like a lady and steered as if she was on rails. As you can see from the photos it was a perfect day (unlike last Sunday it was so rough the club yacht regatta was abandoned). Like most model paddlers she really is not happy if it is windy or the water gets choppy. I managed to wipe off the front jack staff with the sleeve of my shirt when lifting her out of the water >:(. Just a simple repair job. All I have left to do is make up the incense stick burning smoke unit and she will be complete for May 1st public show. Next project, a simple steam paddle engine, details of which I will post in the steam section.
Cheers Chris M
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She looks really lovely on the water Chris - great job!
All the best
Stuart
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Nice clean looking craft Chris. I'll bet your pleased. :)
Can you expand on the incense stick idea, please. Is it merely lit and placed in a safe place within the boat.?
Ken
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Hi again,
firstly thanks for the support, having your help during this project has made building a paddler a lot less isolated. Secondly I have been using incense smoke generators for a while. They are simple to build, relatively reliable and do not use power. They consist of a simple mechanism to hold the smoldering stick or sticks in the funnel, a small aluminum plate below the funnel to catch the small amount of ash and a source of air into the superstructure. This can be as simple as not glazing some of the windows or leaving the engine room ventilators unglazed (I have done this on the monarch) or having doors open. Even at small scales the funnel will draw air up its self. The smoke seems to last longer in the air than the smoke from the vaporized oil types and smells better.
I hope this goes some way to answering your questions. And if you want any more details I can do some simple drawings if that helps.
Cheers Chris M.
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She looks great Chris!
So whats next on the bench :)
Regards,
Kim
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Hi Kim, what a question to ask :o. I have to respray the camouflage on a stealth patroll boat. Finish the steam plant for a friends TID tug and I have a set of plans for a "veron" police boat that have been waiting for me to start on. But as to paddlers, I have fancied a steam stern wheeler if I can find one that will turn. I have built the engine (well mostly) I am just looking for some inspiration. It will probably be some kind of work boat as I can't stand the "showboat" type all that gingerbread work makes me shudder. ;)
Cheers Chris M.
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Chris, Having taken a trip on Monarch last summer, I said at the time she would make a super model. I must say you proved me right. R.G.Y.
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She looks right at home there on the water, well done