Paddleducks
General => Paddleducks Website/Forum => Topic started by: Eddy Matthews on May 26, 2009, 03:35:58 AM
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As most of our long term members will know, we have always had a problem trying to maintain control of our files that are available for download....
Since we run on a host system, we are restricted in the amount of space we have, and also the amount of bandwidth we can use per month - Bandwidth is the amount of data that is sent to people by the website, and that can grow out of all proportion if we leave the files as a free for all.
So, because of the actions of a small minority of members who seem to think they can grab everything in sight but give nothing back in return (not even a few messages on the forum!), we have been forced to revue the situation every now and then, otherwise Paddleducks would exceed it's bandwidth allocation and cease to be available!
Because of all these things, we have now changed to using a file credit system, which allows us to keep track of the amount of data being transfered and to maintain control of it... I will attempt to describe how it affects all users below:
#1. New users, those with "Newbie" status, can view the file listings, but will not be able to download until they have posted a few messages, this is simply to show that you have an interest in the site - So an introductory message telling everyone who you are, and a few more posts will soon get you access.
#2. ALL users are awarded 50 credits, so once you have risen above the "Newbie" rank explained above, you can download a few files. When those credits have been used up, you will no longer be able to download, so chose which files you want wisely!
#3. Extra Credits can be purchased for a modest fee by clicking on the "Buy Credits" option in the Download manager. You need to have a PayPal account to make payment, but PayPal is free to setup, and only takes a few minutes to do - www.paypal.com
#4. Those users who have made a donation of £10 (10 GB Pounds or more) to help with the site costs, have Unlimited credits and will never be prevented from downloading. This is our way of saying "Thankyou" for supporting us!
#5. Finally, you can gain extra credits by uploading useful files - These MUST be paddler related. Our host restricts uploads to a maximum of 2Mb per file, but larger files can be sent to us via email or post, and you will be credited for them axactly as you would if you had uploaded them yourself. BUT BE WARNED duplicate files or junk which is uploaded simply to gain credits will quickly see your account being blocked from the Downloads manager - And once that has happened, the block will NOT be reversed, no matter what excuses are given - So abuse it at your peril!
Regards
Eddy
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Well done Eddy,
nice system you have devised, and you have my full support for this.
Keep up the good work, and hopefully I will have some more input to the forum soon, with some revisions to the ps Koheroa Hull (now that I can access this area of the hulk, I have found the drawings are not accurate), and I can recommence construction of the 1:48 scale r/c model I started last year.
kiwi
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Thanks Kiwi,
Sadly because of the abuse by a few, we were forced into this - I believe that the majority of our genuine users will understand and support us, it's either that or Paddleducks will cease to exist. So there wasn't really much of a choice to make!
Regards
Eddy
P.S. It will be good to see some progress on the Koheroa! :hehe
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Hi Eddy,
well done, and as Kiwi said, my full support for this, we dont need thief's here ;) keep the good work going.
regards Hans
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Common sense Eddy. You have my support as well. How did you find time to watch the Monaco GP?
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Eddie, this seems to be a solution to something that has been a problem for some time however I am always scared of new things, mostly because I do not know what I am doing at this keyboard. As somebody who has not used the downloads much but who does not have anything to contribute in the way of plans or drawings to upload ( and probably would mess it up uploading if I did) I am just a little concerned that I will waste what credit I have. On the occaision when I went looking for engine plans I found I could not open them until they were downloaded and then I found that they were not what I was looking for, in some cases the title does not really describe what you are getting. I asked a question and you explained that it is not possible to preview them so the only other idea I can come up with is to ask if you could do a "Downloads for Dummies" post to give some guidlines on the best way to select and then download what we want. Our local stationer today unpacked a fancy new machine that can take digital imagines from disc or can scan printed copies and blow them up to AO size and also on to continuous strip so at last I will be able to get printed copies full size without having to drive 60km. Anything you can offer to make it easier would be appreciated. My old man always used to say that every time he found a foolproof way of doing things somebody invented a better fool! Cheers, Ian.
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Ian,
Sadly there is no way we can allow users to view files first - For the simple reason that if you view the file, it's already on your computer in your browsers cache, so it defeats the whole point of the download system. All you would need to do is locate the file in your cache directory and there you have it...
Apart from that, it would also mean we were back at square one with the bandwidth problem as the full file would have already been sent just so you could view it....
I can't add much to the descriptions for the steam engine stuff as it's all a black art to me - I can't describe what I don't understand :(
If anyone comes up with a workable solution that gets round all of these problems I'm perfectly happy to listen, but so far this is the best we can do...
Regards
Eddy
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Eddy: When looking at the plans in the download section, would it be possible to put a small image or images of the vessel or engine, etc., in question next to the actual download ? As a new member I have downloaded many of the files simply because I did not know that particular vessel and wanted to to see what the vessel looked like and if it was a paddler I might want to pursue. I have no problem with a small fee being charged for a complete plan download, but the only way to even view an unfamiliar vessel or plan is to download it. A brief "review" note might be helpful as well. Something like "good beginner model" or "good wheel construction detail" might be helpful to some people. I have downloaded plans when a simple profile image would have told me it was not a plan I was interested in at that time. Just a thought and keep up the fine work. Thank You!
Hucksdad
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I've added some images to the Plans section which should help a little - Bear in mind they are vastly reduced images and are only there to give a "taster" of what the main file contains.
Eddy
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Hi Eddy,
Just checked out your little 'thumbnail' views on the downloads.
What can I say but, brilliant. If that doesn't do the trick for members, then nothing will.
Things here just keep getting better and better, so congratulations once again.
Don't know how you fit so much into your day. Down here we only have 24 hours each day, and its just not enough. Maybe at your end of the earth, you have 48 or more each day.
Keep up the fantastic work, we all appreciate it
cheers
kiwi
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Thanks Kiwi,
I do try my best to respond to constructive criticism... Though as some files are pure text it's impossible for me to add any meaningful image, and no matter what I do I will never please everyone!
Of course I need to keep images small - Otherwise our bandwidth climbs (again!), or the less honest users simply enlarge the image to save downloading the full thing!
While I remember, you can click on the images to view a larger image - But bear in mind it's still vastly reduced in size and quality compared to the original!
Eddy
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Eddy: I briefly checked the downloads page and saw the images. That is exactly what I was driving at. You're right, it is just a "taste" of what the download is about, but it might help solve the problem. I saved one of the small photos and was able to blow it up on a photo/image viewer program to a size where I could get a pretty good idea what that particular paddler looked like. It will definitely help me decide what I might be interested in studying and what I am not interested in at the moment. Keep up the fine work! Thank you!
Hucksdad
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Hi Eddy,
Keep up the fantastic work, we all appreciate it
cheers
kiwi
Ditto!!
You really do a great job Eddy, well done! :great
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Much improved, Eddy. Thank you for that. It helps the decision process when searching files. A lot of work for you which must be applauded.
:bravo
Cheers
ken
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I'm slowly working my way through the steam engine stuff and adding images.... Some of them I cannot do, either because it's pure text which would be pointless, or because I don't have the software to handle the files, CAD, PDF etc... It will probably take me a day or so to complete all the files.
Eddy
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Thanks for that Eddie, even a dummy like me should be able to sort out most of what we are looking at. Take your time with the rest of them, we are not going to rush in to downloading all of them tonight and we will allow you to have some sort of life outside Paddleducks! Cheers, Ian.
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Very sorry Eddie, but I totally disagree with everything you are doing with the downloads system.
It is as bad as the sleeze government we have now, back door taxes.
If you had come straight out and asked for a donation to keep things running, then fair enough.
Please delete any downloads I have in your system, and cancel my membership.
John
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Well PD's.....from memory :shoot.. I was privileged to be in the first ten members of the original PD group via PJ from Canada all those years ago
The two singular contact highlights of my membership here have been talking with not only by web mail & PM,,,,,,,, but also the Christmas call from OZ to UK to Sandy Campbell from ACS and John Moore as we know as 'bogstandard'..... :respect
With the latter...... bogstandard's good wife Maralyn answered the telephone.......& said.....'its some bloke from Australia'....so bogstandard & I talked for ten minutes about nothing much....but it was great to talk with the person
I will not attempt to enter any debate here ...suffice to say if John Moore does relinquish his PD membership ....I will not suffer as I can still maintain my relationship with John..........however it is the balance of PD members & newer members that will miss out on the postings & knowledge sharing that bogstandard has freely offered over the years .......regards ....Derek
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I'm sitting here typing this on an idyllic Greek island where I can't even buy a piece of dowel. Everything I need for my modelling comes via visiting friends or the mail. All EXCEPT my contact with other modellers and the ability to share ideas, stories, experiences and of course the models of the ships we love. This contact comes via this site and model ship world.
Recently MSW went down for a week. The reason was that they ran out of bandwidth. The reason for the bandwidth problem was that the site became a victim of its own success and that multiple dowloads spelt the death knell for the site being on a shared server. The site now has a dedicated server at VAST expense and all members are being urged to contribute.
Eddy's solution to the download problem will prevent this happening - and will not affect the regular contributors like bogstandard. Can I urge John not to leave - there's a bloke 1500 miles away who loves reading your posts, as I do ALL the PDs posts.
Eddy's doing this for ALL of us, not for a select few. Eddy gives his time, money and dedication to keep this site going, the least we can do is support him in any way we are able to.
I left this site in a personal huff (not that I am suggesting this is the case with John's viewpoint) several years ago - I missed it and was poorer for not being a member. Please stay John we need you!
All the best
Stuart
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Very sorry Eddie, but I totally disagree with everything you are doing with the downloads system.
It is as bad as the sleeze government we have now, back door taxes.
If you had come straight out and asked for a donation to keep things running, then fair enough.
Please delete any downloads I have in your system, and cancel my membership.
John
I'm extremely sorry you feel that way John, but perhaps I should clarify one thing.... It's not back door taxes, and we certainly don't need any more money for the site this year, but the problem is primarily bandwidth - We are limited to 100Gb of data transfer per month, and we are getting very close to exceeding that on a regular basis!
if that happens then Paddleducks will go offline - So we need to reduce the amount of data being transfered, or move to a dedicated server.... I for one could not afford that sort of cost, and to be honest it's unlikely that donations would ever get anywhere near to paying for it!
The download credit system simply means that the people who are only out to grab files will go elsewhere, and those that have a genuine interest won't object to the very small charge being made. We've tried every other solution we can think of to this problem in the past, and none of them work, so we're stuck between a rock and a hard place as we will never satisfy everyone.
I hope you'll reconsider, but if I haven't heard from you by thursday evening I will delete your account and your files as requested.
Regards
Eddy
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Hi John & Eddy,
Being at the other end of the world (viewing both sides from a distance so to speak), and never having met or spoken to either of you, I think I can safely say that I can see both sides of the dilemma.
Now I have come to have the utmost respect for both of you, John for your engineering skills and perseverance, Eddy for your efforts with this forum and perseverance also.
It would leave a huge void in my life if either of you where to ‘disappear’, and leave a lot of people world wide, similarly disappointed.
John, please reconsider your decision, and Eddy, would what John has done with the download of his book, help in the download dilemma.
By this I mean, if in the download section there was a link to an alternative web-site (or as in Johns case Rapid-share), where the file could then be downloaded. And no, I’m not advocating that Eddy should go get a dedicated download site at added expense. What if those who have their own web-site and have items, plans, articles etc in the download section where to offer the download from their own site, and paddle ducks members could then access these through the download pages via clicking on the thumbnail. I know there are bugs to be sorted and there are plusses and minuses with this but at least it’s some form of constructive thought which may offer some sort of solution for us all. So fellow Paddle duckers turn your fertile thinking caps to this and maybe give us your thoughts re this suggestion and improvements on.
I also think that the data base should continue, with copies of any downloads being offered, safely stored on Paddle ducks as well.
Just my tuppence worth
Keep paddling and stay happy
kiwi
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Good thinking Kiwi. Another idea strikes me - although I feel it needs some work. If some of our members were willing to hold one or more download archives on their machines, would it be possible for a member wishing a download to email the holder and have it sent to them? Those willing to hold the files could have their email address hidden until the download request. This would ensure that only those who REALLY wanted the file would apply, and would reduce the data transfer on the site to a simple request.
The database could be maintained at paddleducks as the 'master Archive' and although there would be a slight delay in obtaining the download it would still be a lot quicker than waiting for the NMM to respond!
Stuart
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, much appreciated...
However, I'm afraid I must point out that neither file hosting sites or storing files on your own computer to send via email would work. :(
The file hosting sites don't normally allow for a remote link to directly access the file, the request would simply be denied. They also clear unused files on a regular basis (generally once a week or once a month), so unless you checked it constantly, the file will often get deleted - if it is you need to re-upload it, and then the link that was posted on Paddleducks would be out of date, so it's a vicious circle. It would quickly degenerate into a series of useless links.
Storing files on your own computer to be sent via an email request again sounds great until you look at the practicalities - The majority of ISP's (Internet Service Providers) only give small email boxes of around 5Mb or less to their accounts. So how do you send a 10Mb, 50Mb, 100Mb or more file? The answer is that you can't, at least not by email. And even if you were one of the lucky ones with a large email allowance, the chances are that the person who had requested the file would only have a small email inbox - So you happily send a 50Mb file, only to find it's rejected by the receiving email server.
Sadly they are the realities....
I hope no-one will take offence at my remarks, I'm simply trying to explain the pitfalls, nothing more....
Regards
Eddy
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Ah! I had forgotten the problem of email file size Eddy - sorry to waste every body's time. Still it was a thought!
Stuart
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Your certainly not wasting everybodies time Stuart!! I'm more than happy to listen to any and all suggestions, you never know, someone somewhere might just hit on the ideal solution? But unless they share their ideas we'll never know will we?
I've spent the last 6 months or more trying to find a way round the problem, and I've pulled out the last little bit of hair I had left trying to find the solution, all to no avail.... :(
Eddy
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Come On Aussie, Come On!
For less than cost of 2 imported model boat magazines, your donation will meet the Downloads Stystem tariff. A small amount asked to keep such a vast tank of information readily available, not only for downloads, but the valuable hints and methods passed on to us novice constructors in the general forums.
My subscription has been gladly submitted.
Misterbee
Western Australia
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Just to say I like the way you've changed the look of the downloads area.
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Hi from a "newbie",
I will introduce myself at the proper place but I have an improvement to propose. It is ok if you limit the downloads to people who have shown an interest not only in the downloads.
However it would have been helpful to give an explanantion of the rules for newbies or a pointer to say "Go read the forum" in the registration message. If you did so but I didn't read it please accept my apologies.
Anyway now I know ;)
Anders
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Thanks Anders, I appreciate the comments and I will take a look at adding it into the registration process....
As a new user you have 50 free credits to download some files - Then you can either buy more if needed, or upload something that is useful to our members. Uploads get credits - At a MUCH LARGER rate than the amount of credits that are charged for a download. For example, a 100Kb file would cost 6 credits to download, but you'd gain 60 credits for a 100Kb upload.
The only things to watch are that any uploads are not duplicate files that we already have, they aren't copyrighted material, and they aren't pure junk - Any of the above would simply be deleted and you'd lose the credits gained. If anyone insists on uploading rubbish just to gain credits, they will quickly find themselves banned!
I hope that helps to clarify things?
Regards
Eddy
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I've been working on the Downloads Manager that handles all the files we have online.... As most of you know, our main problem has always been one of exceeding our monthly bandwidth allowance because some members insist on downloading everything in sight!!
To put a stop to those that were only here to grab and grab, we enabled a credit system which entailed paying for the files you wanted based on their size - All new members were given 50 credits free so they could grab one or two odds and ends.... That worked well and our bandwidth fell to less than 10% of what it had previously been running at.
Those that have been members of Paddleducks for some time will know we have always resisted charging users for anything, and it took more than 8 years before we even accepted voluntary "Donations" to help with the site costs! Many, many thanks to those that have made a donation btw! And sadly, whilst charging for files did stop those that were only here to abuse things, it also meant that our genuine members were being charged because of the actions of a minority - Not a situation I liked!
So, to the point of this posting..... I've now modified the code so that credits are no longer charged, and instead, normal members will be limited to a maximum of 5 downloads per day. Those that have made a donation, and been given "Subscriber" status, will be able to download whatever they wish and won't be subject to the 5 file limit.
Hopefully that will keep things under control AND allow free access at the same time.....
Finally, two points to bear in mind...... First, the code changes I've made may have bugs, so if something doesn't work as expected tell me! I can't fix it if I don't know there's a problem! And secondly, we obviously reserve the right to re-enable the credit system if this new setup doesn't work for any reason - We MUST keep control of the bandwidth we use or the whole Paddleducks website will go offline.
Regards
Eddy
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Hi PD's.......Eddy ....would it be a simple ''thing" for the "system" to send a PM :breakcomp to each subscriber.....when the anniversary of their subscription is reached......or near?...... sort of like just revalidating your ticket to for the next year......................................... :whistle :hehe
:beer ...... :vacation........ :gathering ....just a thought........Derek
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Hi Derek,
It would be a nice feature, but sadly it isn't possible right now.... it would take a lot of work to rewrite the code to handle it, and I'm not sure when I'd have the time to actually do it. I'll bear it in mind for the future though....
Regards
Eddy