Paddleducks
Paddler Information => Research => Topic started by: waldenmodels on January 03, 2009, 02:38:32 AM
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Greetings,
I'm working on a model of the 1866 tug "Anglia". I've got two sets of not very detailed plans - one from Thomas' "British Steam Tugs" and the other from G. Deason's "Cardboard Engineering", plus an undated photo and several newspaper engravings from her "Cleopatra" haul. What I'm missing is information on details visible in neither source, especially the anchor Windlass, bitts, companionways and other deck fittings.
I found some information on the Internet on windlasses built around the 1860's, but there are quite a few different designs. Can anyone point me to photos or drawings of a likely windlass?
Thank you!
Oliver
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Well, I've progressed somewhat... here is the current state of the stern. Like I said, there are few sources. What you see here is cobbled together from several other paddle tugs of the time. The equipment seems to have been very similar among the ships. Does anybody see anything amiss? Should the bitts be bigger? I've seen some enormous ones on "Energetic". What's the likelihood of there being a couple of large hawseholes at the stern? When were those introduced? I realize this is a reconstruction at best, but I don't want to leave out something glaringly obvious. :-\
Cheers,
Oliver
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Hi Oliver,
Whilst I'm no expert on tugs, I would suggest that the bitts are a little on the small side. The towing hoops would normally have one or two supports attached to the deck on either side of the companionway. And the towhook looks far too small and is fitted too low - it needs raising to be level with the top of the hoops, although that may be an optical illusion?
Regards
Eddy
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I don't know if it's any use but here's a photo of the model P T Dromedary in the science museum. I don't really know how accurate the model is but the tow hook looks quite small on this model and is somewhat lower than the centre of the 'hoops'...
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...and at the forward end (see attached) I very much doubt the anchors would be stowed on the sponsons like that, more likely the chain would be wound in and the anchor lifted on board using the davit, and left on the deck right below it.
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I don't know if it's any use but here's a photo of the model P T Dromedary in the science museum. I don't really know how accurate the model is but the tow hook looks quite small on this model and is somewhat lower than the centre of the 'hoops'...
I think it's blatantly incorrect Mick - The towrope is runneath BENEATH the towhoops, and it has stanchions fitted which would be ripped off if it ever towed anything! I'm sure there are numerous other "faults" if the picture was studied in detail...
Regards
Eddy
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I did wonder about the stanchions! gave it the benefit of the doubt as I've heard of tugs being used for passenger cruises, maybe the stanchions slot into brackets of some sort, only used when not towing.... but that ventilator right in the way of the tow hook... :-\
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Hi all,
Dont know much about tug towing gear, but I have seen a picture in the book "Paddle Steamers" by Richard Clammer" showing the large paddle tug "Energetic" fitting out and she had rails on the after deck so they must be removeable. they certainly look temporary.
Clark
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Hi all
just some comments about the discussion so far! Towing hooks are generally ALWAYS placed below the towing hoops and more often than not below side rail/bulwark level. The hooks were designed to angle up when under load so that the tow rope exerted a downward force on the towing hoops - which were always braced. Most tugs fitted with ventilators, stanchions or stove chimneys in line with a towing cable had these items designed to be hinged or removed during a tow.
The towing hook had to be easily accessible AT DECK LEVEL for ease of working and safety.
The towing cable does not 'pull' as such - its weight is what provides the moving force to the towed vessel, often a bundle of chain was added to the towing cable to provide more impetus. Using the weight of the towing cable also alows a degree of shock absorbtion when towing.
I agree that the bits on the 'Anglia' do look a little small and I would think that she had 'Samson posts' on either side forward of the forward towing hoop. These were designed as a strong point and a way of preventing the towing cable moving too far abeam and capsizing the tug.
Just some thoughts
Stuart Badger
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While I agree with what Stewart has said, the majority of paddle tugs did their work in rivers and estuaries, towing ships with a short "spring" cable. I remember watching many of them in my youth on the Tyne and Wear rivers and a lot of the time the cables were at an up angle of 30- 40 degrees!, with the tug never more than three lengths before or behind the ship they were handling. The use of long weighted cables was for deep sea towage. regards, walter.
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Thanks for the clarification Walter!
I should have been more specific. The William Watkins tug 'Anglia' was classified as an ocean going tug and my comments were mainly concerned with vessels of her type. With less 'arduous' towing conditions on esturies and rivers and the need to occupy a lot less space and have more control you are quite correct - the tow was relatively short. By the way, do you know of any other info on the Anglia apart from what's in the P N Thomas book and the 2 magazine articles in the download section of Paddleducks? I have this yearning to build a really old multi-funneled tug!
All the best
Stuart Badger
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Hi Stuart. In (I think the 1960s or early 70s) MODEL BOATS did a long series called Towage on the Thames which featured Anglia with a scale drawing and several other early paddle tugs, all with almost A4 size plans. Regards, Walter.
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Hi Stuart. In (I think the 1960s or early 70s) MODEL BOATS did a long series called Towage on the Thames which featured Anglia with a scale drawing and several other early paddle tugs, all with almost A4 size plans. Regards, Walter.
Are you thinking of the Model Maker article in Mrch 1960 Walter?
If so, it's in our downloads section at: http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/index.php?ind=downloads&op=section_view&idev=156
Eddy
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Yes, thats the one eddy.In the same series Arthur Pollard did several other Thames paddle tugs all to1/16th scale.
PT MONARCH 1833-1876, February 1960 Model Boats
PT RENOWN 1863-1903 March 1960
PT UNCLE SAM 1849-1900 May 1961
G H DEASON published aq plan and article for a sidewheeler tug he called CUMBRIA but which was based very closely on the PT CAMBRIA in MODEL MAKER April 1957.
All the above should be in the downloads section as I remember passing them to Eddy for that purpose.
In one of the AIFIX ANNUALS there was a good article on coverting the Airfix Great Western into one of Watkins early paddle tugs.
Hope this helps, Walter.
.
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Thanks guys - I think I have that info already. Trouble is I'm not 'convinced' by the drawings - still, I suppose it's a bit much to expect a complete and detailed set of plans after about 150 years!
I think I'll hit the drawing board and see if I can come up with something convincing based on all this info - I have to say I've been inspired by Waldenmodels efforts!
Thanks
Stuart
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Hi Stuart -
Since I've been looking into this for a while, here are my two bits:
- Deason published a plan for the "Anglia" in his book "Cardboard Engineering" I did my first design of the Anglia on this plan and have since found it to be complete and utter rubbish. The hull is that of Deason's Cambria, square counter and all. The proportions of the deck house etc. are all wrong. The wheelboxes are inaccurate etc. etc. I then got a hold of the plans from Thomas' book. The hull seems more believable, but again the deck house and the wheelboxes are wrong. The plans show the forward edge of the deck house protruding outside the bulwark. It's really odd - they examined the one photo that seems to exist of the Anglia so well that they saw the boiler enclosures were not square boxes, but at the same time they completely missed the fact that the bulwark runs flush with the edge of the deck house. Very strange...
Bottom line: I would (and did) use Thomas' plan as a starting point, but vet each and every detail against the photograph. A nice, clear version of it is published in "Victorian and Edwardian Merchant Steamers"
Cheers,
Oliver
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Hi Oliver
Now here's the mystery! I have all of the Wain Research books including British Steam Tugs by Thomas and - there is NO PLAN of Anglia any where in it! There is a rather nice half tone (taken I think from the photo you mention - of which I have a copy).
I have the plan from model boats by Pollard, the Illustrated London News article and a few 'imaginative' illustrations trawled from the web.
Is the Thomas plan you have from another source? I have to say that I have found some innacuracies in Thamas's research in the past - but who am I to criticise as the man did more than most to preserve the information available!
My problem is more 'psychological' - I used to be a professional model maker and worked nearly always from builder's drawings - I think I can make a stab at a 'reconstruction' but it sort of goes against all I have been taught!
Deck fittings and components aren't too much of a problem as much can be gleaned from other tugs of the period but there are certain thngs on the existing drawings that make one wonder. For instance did she have feathering floats? did she really have a STEAM windlass? I also suspect that the bulwarks were flared fore and aft of the paddle boxes to accomodate the deck houses that contact the paddle boxes - as this was comon practice at the time and would account for the odd perspective in the photograph. The drawing I have shows the sponsons close-planked - most unlikey I think. Ah well I shall keep researching and see whether I make a start on the model - she is a delicious subject.
congratulations on your efforts - I downloaded your little model of Cleopatra - wonderful!
I would be building Anglia at 1/24th scale so I need to fill in an awful lot of disputed detail!
All the best
Stuart
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Hi folks.A model of Angla was sold by Bonhams Auctions, Knightsbridge in their Maritime sale no.15822 on 23rd September 2008. Lot number 279. Describes as " detailed model diorama of paddle tug ANGLIA, size 12.5 inches x6x10.5 inches. They may well have a photograph in a back catalogue There is no mention of when the model was built. Regards, Walter.
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Sorry - the plans I mentioned are not from the Thomas Book at all! I wrote an unrelated note at the time when I obtained them, and that confused me. In fact these plans are the same posted here on the site ::) Shame on me.
Either way, here's the current state of my Anglia project. I have progressed from the virtual model to what's known as the "white build" in the card model trade. It serves as a quick check to detect mistakes and ill-fitting parts so you can make all necessary corrections before you go through the trouble of coloring the parts. The quality of the build is a bit shoddy for the same reason. Ususally I toss these after the "real" model is built. (Though I hear white builds from some famous card model designers are quite sought after - perhaps I should keep it :D )
Note that I haven't put on the "wings" on the forward sponsons, so the roof parts are just flapping in the breeze. The formers for the underwater hull are separate so that the model can be built waterline as well. Some folks put little magnets on both base plates and so can detach the underwater bit when it suits their fancy.
And here's another question: Stuart, you write that it was common practice to flare out the bulwark on the sponsons. Would the "inside" bit of the sponson have been planked over, or would it have had a grating like the outside? I planked the front sponson over entirely, but it doesn't look right to me.
Cheers : Oliver
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Nice work Oliver!
and thanks Walter - I found a photo of the Bonham's model diorama, it won a gold medal at the Model Engineer Exhibition - it's beautiful, but tiny and you can't make out any detail. I am going to do a trawl for the guy that built it.
Oliver, it was usual for any area of sponson external to the deck to be 'slatted' rather than close planked inside of the bulwarks would have been planked as the rest of the deck. Many early passanger/tramp paddlers had the bulwarks flared at the leading AND trailing edge of the paddle boxes. I can only presume this was to improve sea-keeping capabilities ie. so that heavy weather broke against the bulwarks rather than a deck house? This would also, to me explain why the side houses on Anglia have a pronounced forward slope as she was designed as an ocean going tug.
I have to say that your 'white build' looks really promising and very attractive, I'm going to be really cheeky and ask if you could forward me a set of your projected hull sections, otherwise I'm gonna have to wait and buy me a kit when it's available!
all the best
Stuart
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I stumbled across this when browsing earlier today, don't know if it's of any help?
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks, Eddie - that's the picture I keep referring to. It appears to be the only one in existence, though I do hope there might be pictures out there that show the Anglia as a "bystander" rather than the subject. I didn't post it myself because I'm not sure how copyright issues are handled in the UK...
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Just as a quick update, Walter Snowdon has found some drawings of various tug fittings in some old magazines - Things such as towing bits/hooks, towing hoops, binnacles, ect ect...
A few of these parts are directly referenced to Anglia and Cumbria, so they may well be of some use to you Oliver?
Walter is going to put the items together and then he'll give them to me for scanning - Hopefully they should be posted in a week or so, maybe less?
Eddy
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Walter, Eddy - thank you so much! That is great news, and timely, too! I'm looking forward to seeing what you found. I'm doing my second white-build right now and haven't started coloring any parts yet, so it's still easy to change things around.
Cheers,
Oliver
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So here's a question guys - should the forward companionway face fore or aft? The attached rendering shows it facing forward, and I was about to glue it down when I realized that it wouldn't make much sense to have the door face forward and have the green seas come pouring in if the doors were left open. I checked a couple of paddle-tug pictures and find that the forward companionway faces backwards in all of them. Yet the Anglia plan shows it facing forward. Who do I believe?
Puzzled,
Oliver
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Oliver
I have looked at all my tug plans, and without exception the companion way faces towards the stern.
Stuart
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Thank you very much, Stuart! I'll turn it around :)
Cheers,
Oliver
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Oliver,
Here's something you might be interested in;
http://www.charlesmillerltd.com/Catalogues/MS290409/lot0264-0.jpg (http://www.charlesmillerltd.com/Catalogues/MS290409/lot0264-0.jpg)
At a 1000-1500 pound estimated price range, ( :o ) someone here might just be taking this home! ;D
Randy