Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Paddlewheels/Drive Systems => Topic started by: Barry on November 16, 2008, 11:25:27 AM
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I wondering if there would be any interest in some laser cut paddle wheels kits. I've had some made for myself and for couple of other people. They're cut from 1.5mm thick HIPS [High impact polystrene] and 100mm dia. The floats are 50mm wide. The kit makes up two paddle wheels and comes complete with alignment jigs and instructions.
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I'm sure there would be a limited interest Barry, and I for one may order some if you can answer some questions?
#1. Are they limited to 100mm diameter, or is a range of sizes available?
#2. Are the number of floats fixed at 8, or could 9 10,11 etc floats be catered for?
#3. What about shipping to other countries? I'm in the UK....
#4. An idea of price including postage?
#5. What methods of payment are accepted? Asking for AUS dollars is going to make it expensive for other countries, whereas Paypal or whatever makes the process easy.
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks for the questions Eddy. I'm selling the 100mm wheel kits for $50 [Aust] plus postage. Which to the UK is $15 [Aust] via Australia Post. At this stage I don't have Paypal or credit facilities, but I'm hoping to do so early in December.
I'm in the process of having 140mm dia. 8 spoke sets made up in 2mm. HIPS. Other sizes and spoke numbers can be done but would depend on demand. Any requests? One offs are possible but the set up fee that the laser cutter charges might make the cost prohibitive. To make it economical I probably need to be doing four sets.
Barry.
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Hi, would it be possible to have them made of metal or wood?
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Hi kno3, The laser cutter I'm working with can't cut metal, he can etch it but not cut it. It needs a higher output machine. I must say I was quite supprised in the amount of work necessary to get a good fit for parts with laser cutting. For instance the slot in the floats on my paddle wheels had to be adjusted to allow for the thickness of the laser cut, which depending on the material being used ranges from 0.09 to 0.2 mm. Different materials and different thicknesses cut differently. Changing from 1 mm. to 1.5 mm. HIPS entailed changing the allowance on all the interlocking parts and involved several hours of computer time to redraft it. So whist the laser can easily cope with changing the material or thickness it's the programing that ensures the fit and accuracy. So the short answer is that they could be made of timber but to make it economical I'd need to be doing at least four sets. The other down side with timber is the need to waterproof it and the material cost. The HIPS plastic being much cheaper than thin ply over here. For more info on laser cutting have a look at www.sparclaser.com.au Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the answer. It's just that I don't like using plastic for my models. But I think a one-off would be too expensive. So I guess I'll have to do them on my own...
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It is good to know there are at least some alternatives available (other than the Graupner wheels) for those of us who are in to "buy and fit" rather than make from scratch and at a reasonable cost too. The problem might be that we each want something different or, as in my case have not decided which paddler to build next or finished the other three boats on the go! There will be a demand I am sure Barry, it just might take a while to grow. Can somebody please explain the advantages/disadvantages of multiple small floats over a few larger floats on wheels of the same diameter and width? Thanks, Ian.
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It's taken me a while but I've finally listed a set of the 100 mm. paddle wheels on E Bay. If you'd prefer not to buy via E Bay sets are also available from Adrian Brewer at Float a Boat. http://www.floataboat.com.au
I hope to have two other sizes available during January. A 140 mm. dia. set and a 177 mm. dia. set to suit the Murray river paddler Adelaide.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Paddle-wheels-for-model-boats-and-paddle-steamers_W0QQitemZ180316906913QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Toys_Hobbies_Model_Kits?hash=item180316906913&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
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Hi PD's........& thanks Barry....I have had mixed emotions :sobbing with paddle wheel selection over the past years
1) Have attached a snap of my first attempt :oops @ 100 diameter brass discs [with the red candle light] but out of scale ...should have been 140 diameter
2) Third attachment is a VERY expensive 1:24 scale brass wheel set from a well known British manufacturer - could you imagine a 1:24 scale wheel set bolted with 3" diameter bolts & 5 3/4" AF hex head nuts? - yes that is what 3 mm diameter bolts represents @ 1:24 scale :ranting
So........I would be most interested in a 140 diameter special wheel set dependent on...the following
a) Are the hubs capable of original manufacture to accept a 5/32"[0.15625"] S/S paddle shaft?
b) What is the method of securing the hubs to the paddle shaft? - I currently have a stock of 3 mm diameter Grade 304 hollow pointed grub screws
c) I have my own paddle float wooden material - the float material is shown as packing pieces under the gauges in another snap attachment - I have trailed a sample & it appears to be an imported English waxy wood...but not tallow wood by weight or colour......but appears impervious to a 24 hour soak in fresh or salt water
d) Are the wheel sets easily adapted for gluing additional brackets to the high impact polystyrene material?
e) what type of adhesive is used? and is HIP [or comperable material] sections readily available @ hobby shops?
f) I intend to secure each float with four 10 BA [1.6 mm diameter] metal thread + washer + float + washer + hex nut back to a form of scale bracketing
g) Considering that the only un-marked wheel surfaces would be on the outer face & the inner face, does a light lap on a sheet of 500 W&D suffice prior to painting?
h) Is Holts Dupli-Colour [or the like] automotive red primer suitable for the HIP material?
Once we have the final detail & quotation understood I have no issue with placing an order of Float a Boat or would be more that happy to post a Bank Cheque to you & await clearance prior to you manufacture etc
I am interstate until 03.01.09, but still log onto PD's each day..............Derek
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Thanks for the questions Derek.
a/ The I. D. of the hub is 6.35 mm. [1/4"] so it could be sleeved down to suit your shaft.
b/ My suggested drive is in the photo below. I've used the same method on my sons paddler for some years now with out any trouble. The plastic itself would be too soft to drill and tap.
c/ I guess you could use timber for the floats. It would require some adaption to the rims.
d/ As I understand it the HIPS plastic is a tougher version of the 'Evergreen' type plastic commonly seen in hobby shops. I'd see no problems combining the two.
e/ Normal hobby plastic glues are all you need. I use Revel Contacta Professional. I'm sure other brands would work as well.
f/ I'd be a bit concerned if you were to drill 1.6 mm. holes through the arms of the rims. The arms are 4 mm. wide so it wouldn't leave a lot of material either side if the hole. Personally I wouldn't do it. You could glue the angle to the arm and bolt the float to the angle.
g/ The first step in the building instructions is to give the he plastic sheets a light sand, I supply some sandpaper. One to remove the slight ridge left by the laser cutting and two to give a better surface for painting. So no problem there.
h/ I've read in the model magazines of people using car paints on styrene plastic, lots of light coats. The car paints can be pretty aggressive so I'd try it on a scrap piece first. Long term what it does to the plastic I don't know. I'd stick with an enamel to be safe. Humbrol Matt 70 brick red isn't bad as a red lead type colour.
Hope this helps Derek. When I've got some wheels ready you guys will be the first to know.
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Barry...more questions.... :thinking
1) The 90 degree drive pin...[where one plastic rivet has been removed] is that 1/16"diameter?
2) Are those four plastic rivets cosmetic or structural?
Either way, I could have four small profile brass drive adaptor hubs manufactured to bolt up to the current location of the four rivets on either side of each wheel etc.....& these could be secured to the shaft by the 3 mm S/S HPGS
3) Your floats appear to be secured in the middle only to the wheel spokes or is this an optical illusion?
4) I could use two sections of your floats & secure the wooden blades back to HIP material
5) Your wheel hubs appear complex in profile......[just like real paddle hubs] are they cast?......:shoot ....OK......I have just looked @ the 'Complete Kit' .jpg again & here I see the two tubular shafts + four ridged longitudinal spacers & 2 hubs ....Derek
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1/ Yes the drive pin is 1/16". As I said it seems to do the job. My sons paddle which I built for him when he was nine and is still going ten years later.
2/ The rivits are alloy of some sort. They help align the rim to the hub. I dare say they could be removed after assembly. Once every thing is aligned and glued their really just cosmetic.
3/ The floats are mounted off the arm. The intention was to give the appearance of a feathering paddle without the complexity. There's a slot in the float which fits over a tab on the arm.
4/ Not quite sure what you mean, sorry
5/ Yes your right the hubs are fabricated. It does the same function with out the added costs.
If you like I can e mail you a copy of the instructions for the 100 mm. wheel, which is the same design and it might help you.
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Better yet I'll put the instructions here. Then every one can see them.
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Hi Barry, really clear and concise instructions. Even an amature like me could make a decent set of paddlewheels with your kits. I had a look on the ebay.au site and the price is more than fair for what looks to be a very well presented kit. Thanks for sharing these instructions here.
cheers
Jim
p.s. Have a great New Year
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Hi Jim, Thanks for kind comments. I've tried my best to make everything as easy as possible.
All the best for the New Year to you and to our fellow 'Paddleduckers'. ;D
Barry.
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Just had a set sent over from Oz. Adrian & Rhonda Brewer at 'Float a Boat' could not have been more helpful, - highly recommended. Only took a week to get here!
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Thanks for buying a set of paddle wheels from Float a Boat, I don't think you can go wrong dealing with Adrian and Rhonda. The paddle wheel kits are now being sold through Float a Boat. More information on the kits can be found in their on line newsletters at >http://www.floataboat.com.au/Newsletter.htm< in the December 2008 and March 2009 issues. Also available now is an optional kit of imitation feathering gear to go with the 100mm and 140 mm. rimmed paddle wheels.
A sneak peek photo of a new style of wheel of to be released latter this month in both 100 mm. and 140 mm. diameters, details should be in the next Float a Boat newsletter.
The PS Adelaide wheel is one you might not be aware of yet. It's 177 mm. in dia. to suit Adrian's 1:24 scale plans of the Murray paddler.
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Hi PD's....here is another set down the hatch :beer.................Derek
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Hi Rhonda..Barry Gibson advised on Paddleducks of the optional kit of imitation feathering gear to go with the 140 mm - I realsise my wheel set is now in the post, but could I please order the optional feathering kit for my 140 diameter wheels
Payment via CTB MasterCard & delivery address as per the purchase last week - regards Derek
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Thanks for buying a set of paddle wheels from Float a Boat, I don't think you can go wrong dealing with Adrian and Rhonda. The paddle wheel kits are now being sold through Float a Boat. More information on the kits can be found in their on line newsletters at >http://www.floataboat.com.au/Newsletter.htm< in the December 2008 and March 2009 issues. Also available now is an optional kit of imitation feathering gear to go with the 100mm and 140 mm. rimmed paddle wheels.
A sneak peek photo of a new style of wheel of to be released latter this month in both 100 mm. and 140 mm. diameters, details should be in the next Float a Boat newsletter.
The PS Adelaide wheel is one you might not be aware of yet
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----- Original Message -----
From: Derek L Warner Pty Ltd
To: Rhonda Brewer
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: 140 Diameter Paddle Wheel Kit [Barry Gibson Style]
Hi Rhonda - confirmation discussion, could I please order a 140 mm diameter paddle wheel kit - you have my MasterCard detail again today @ $ + postage
Delivery address
DereK Warner
PO Box 294
Wollongong East
NSW 2520
I enjoy the news letter - regards Derek
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Cheers Derek. :beer
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Thought I'd give you an up date on my paddlewheel kits. In addition to the two 100mm diameter wheels I now have a 140mm version of them. There's now a optional imitation feathering gear kit available for the rimmed wheels, which gives the look of feathering gear without the complications. All available through www.floataboat.com.au. See the March 2009 and May 2009 newsletters for more details.
If you ask Mike Mayhew of Waverley Models nicely I'm sure he'll show you the ones he's bought off me, might even sell you some.
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Very nice work!
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Thanks Herrmill. :)
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Any thoughts of branching out in to Sternwheeler wheels Barry? If not do you think it is possible to take a sidewheeler set and join all the rims up with long wooden floats to make one wheel? Thanks, Ian.
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Hi PD's ....Ian ....it would be very easy to add double extended wooden floats to a pair of the wheels from Barry.......to produce a sternwheel...just look @ the mockup attachment
My wheel set is still progressing with a few revised hubs from my mate 'bogstandard :respect' & will have full wooden float blades when finished.... :porkies....Derek
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Hi Ian, I am looking at doing a stern wheel for the Captain Sturt. As the Captain Sturt was an American design I'm sure it would suit many other American paddlers. Did you have anything in particular in mind?
Barry.
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Is there a UK supplier for these wheels yet Barry? After smashing the ones I made for my model of the Sir William Wallace I really don't feel like making another set!! I need the 140mm rimmed wheels without feathering....
Secondly, how easy is it to change the size of the axle mounting? 1/4" is HUGE, and I already have shafts fitted to my model of 3/16" diameter which cannot be changed without a LOT of work!
Regards
Eddy
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As yet I haven't got a UK supplier confirmed. I can take payment through Paypal if that helps you. The axle size would be very easy to change as there's a bush that that pushes into the hub. I went with a 1/4" bush as thats ready available here but I can turn some up some smaller ones for you.
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Thanks Barry,
Could you PM me with a price including P&P to the UK please?
Regards
Eddy
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Barry, I am just in the planning stages of a future project but it seems likely that it will be a New Zealand sternwheeler called Manuwai. Kiwi (Harry) is working on plans for her at the moment and will scale them to suit but I like my steam vessels with plenty of room so she will probably end up about 60" o/all. Not sure what size the wheel would be but just scaling up from the very small preliminary drawing Harry has sent it looks like the wheel would be about 140 to 150mm dia and 150 wide. The drawing actually shows a wheel with 3 rims and staggered floats so Dereks mockup looks pretty right. The wheel was the one thing scaring me off so I await your developement work eagerly. I am hoping to be able to connect the two cylinders of the engine direct to the wheels so would make alloy or brass hubs with some sort of lugs to transfer the drive to the wheels. Cheers, Ian.
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Barry, what size wheel are you planning for the Capt. Stuart? I plan to build one later this year & would be interested in one. Depending on the size, it may well work on a Civil War tinclad I also plan to build.
Chuck
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My initial thoughts on the size of the stern wheel were to do it in 1:24 scale which would make the dia around 71/2" or 190mm. There's a set of plans in the early stages of being drawn up, not by me, in that scale and my wheel in would tie in with them. At 1:24 scale the Captain Sturt would be around 6' long. Did you have a particular size in mind for your wheel Herrmil?
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Am partial to 1/35-1/48 scale to make models more manageable in hauling around but have to consider the shallow draft of these subjects.
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I've done some initial drawings for the Captain Sturt wheel to give you an idea of what it looks like and to see weather it would suit your needs. It's easy enough to made changes at this stage. If you could let me know what you think I can make any necessary changes before I go any further.
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Barry, I have today received a book containing details of the Manuwai, the paddler I am interested in and interestingly it was made by Yarrows and based on paddlers built for the Nile and the Zambesi so there may be others who could use the same wheel. The original boat was 106ft long and I was going to build at 1:24. The paddle wheel was 10ft diameter by 11ft 9in wide and had 10 floats 9in wide. That would give a model wheelof 5in (125mm) dia so it might well be possible to use parts from your other wheels. It seems a small wheel for such a large boat but I know they were very keen to keep he to a shallow draft and obviously it worked as she went up some horrendous looking rapids. Look forward to working with you to develope a wheel. Cheers, Ian.
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Hi Herrmill. I've done some more work on the Captain Sturt wheel. Here's another drawing.
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Looks pretty good to me. ;D
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Barry,
I can't see any mention of price for the PS Adelaide wheels - Can you tell me how much they would be including postage to the UK?
I'd probably want TWO sets if I go ahead with my plan......
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Eddy,
The Adelaide wheels cost $140 Australian a set. Free postage to Paddleduck members.
That's going to be a monster boat with four paddlewheels.
Captain Sturt wheel is coming along, a bit slower than I'd like as I'm also painting rooms in the house, but it's getting there.
A couple of photos.
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Cheers Barry,
I've sent you a PM about the wheels....
Regards
Eddy
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Barry, those are looking very nice.
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gday folks ,
as a aussie modelller , i would like to recommend barrys paddle wheel kits , i must tell you that i know him well , and this has nothing to do w this recommend .
the p wheels have a lot going for them , they are very strough for there size and construction method , but more importantly , extremly ligh in weight , and any weight saved out side the hull is VERY important for paddlers !!many a good model has being ruined with stability problems due to heavy wheels .
the laser cut is that accurate , that the various parts line up almost by them selves , a good examble is the 4 pins in the hub assembly , on some wheel sets .
try them , i dont think you will be disappointed +the more he sells , the more versions will be available .
regards bill stafford , warrnambool MBC
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Hi PD's ......& welcome on board Bill........when you get a chance to trawl throught the pages of comments in the Folders on Paddle Wheel and Construction you will find many references to the need to be VERY careful with outboard or upper weight
I also have a pair of wheels from Barry & courtesy of Float a Boat.....................Derek :beer ......just around the corner & up the coast a bit in Wollongong...... :hehe