Paddleducks
Paddler Information => Research => Topic started by: Eddy Matthews on November 03, 2008, 07:54:23 AM
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As I've now ordered one of the engines John (bogstandard) is going to be building, I'm back on the search for a suitable OPEN paddle launch to build for it....
I've looked before but didn't come up with a lot, and those that I did find didn't really have the sort of style that I'd like :(
So do any of our newer members know of any paddle launches that may be suitable to base a model on? If I can't find something I like, it will be a case of designing my own...
Regards
Eddy
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* There is a nice one in the flashby random photos in the opening page.
* Walter has already modelled PS Melissa (a mission launch in India)
www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2666.0
* Mini UK paddlers: www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3521.0. You would be able to visit, ride and measure up.
* EPV Gnatty: somewhere
* PV Lil' 'Sipp': www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2763.0
* SWPV Rusty: www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2510.0
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Here's one in Switzerlnad, oriignally in the UK
http://www.liberty-belle.ch/dlb_eng/html/event_at_thun_2004.html
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My two favourites so far are Walter Snowdons Melissa, and the Swiss vessel Liberty Belle - But there are problems with both.... Melissa is a bit too beamy for my taste, and Liberty Belle is far too shallow in draught, it will never support the weight of the engine and boiler etc.
So at the moment I'm still looking at designing my own paddle launch..... Unless someone knows of something else that I have yet to see?
Though I have to say that this is a project that probably won't be started until the end of 2009 or even early 2010, so I still have plenty of time to keep looking around....
Eddy
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I have several steam launch photos, but not paddle ones.
I enclose a photo SL Puke. IIRC, it was once the harbourmaster's launch, in Auckland (NZ). It is now part of the NZ National Maritime Museum, in Auckland. Hence, plans may be available, and probably photos and tech specs too. AFAIK, it is still steamed regularly. As with Sean's Grebe (and a UK passenger ferry, discussed recently), conversion to paddle would be easy.
Pronunciation: AFAIK pook-ee (rhymes with book)
See:
* http://travelmax.us.travelcuts.com/sisp/index.htm?fx=event&event_id=147484
* www.whatsonwhen.com/sisp/index.htm?fx=event&event_id=147484
* www.ixeo.com/Events/NewZealand_NZNationalMaritimeMuseum_NZNationalMaritimeMuseum/LG-EN/Content.aspx
* www.nzmaritimeindex.org.nz/izpub.php?sourceid=8005007&hit=19&db=&dm=&ds=Y&dh=&sd=Y&tot=315&type=Serial
* www.lastminute.com/site/find/World/Australasia/New-Zealand/North-Island/Auckland/WOW-Attraction-147484.html
* www.nzmaritime.org (search the tabs, there is a movie with Puke in action).
One of the better episodes of Flintstones concerned the falling out of friends when Fred and Barney won a launch in a raffle. One wanted to call it 'Nautical Lady'; the other wanted 'Sea Queen'. They compromised, and called it 'Nausea'.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Puke... :D ;D
Why on earth would they name the boat Puke???
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The word 'Puke' is Maori. There is a major town Te Puke.
One syllable which I do recognise is 'ara' pathway.
A series of New Zealand Railways roro Cook Strait ferries from the 1960s used this phrase:
Aramoana 1962-83 (path across the water)
Aranui
Arahanga 1972-2001
Aratika 1974-99
Arahura 1983- (pathway to dawn)
Aratere 1999- (quick path)
See www.nzmaritime.co.nz/railferries.htm
and www.simplonpc.co.uk/Interislander.html
A lot of place names in NZ sound very similar, because the Maori alpabet does not have 26 letters (AFAIK only 16), and the phrases will be standards meaning 'hill', 'big', 'river' etc.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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I have checked my tranlater and it comes up with the following translation from the Maori.
PUKE - ship, short for kapuke
PUKE - hill, mound, pubes (of a woman.
PUKE - TUTU Weeks Island.
so there you go, take your pick. ( I know whick I prefer). Regards, walter.
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As I've now ordered one of the engines John (bogstandard) is going to be building, I'm back on the search for a suitable OPEN paddle launch to build for it....
If you go to the amazing Pusey and Jones Photograph Collection mentioned by Randy (thank you!)in http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3386.30 :
http://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/index_p268001coll9.php?CISOROOT=/p268001coll9 (http://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/index_p268001coll9.php?CISOROOT=/p268001coll9)
and search for Tambo, you will find the picture of a bizarre little paddle launch built for Peru.
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Hi Eddy,
try this, www.dampfboote.de , then open "Bootsregister" scroll down and have a look at the Waldstätter this is a new build paddlesteamboat.
Regards Hans
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I must be missing something Hans, but I don't see "bootsregister" anywhere on the link you gave.... :(
Regards
Eddy
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I found it after entering "Waldstätter" into Google Hans..... That looks like it may have possibilities. How far is the vessel from you? Any chance of tracking it down and getting a load of photos?
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Eddy good to hear you have found it,
a friend of mine knows the owner of the "Waldstätter" so i can try to contact him and shot some photos (2 or 3) for you, the bad thing is the distance to where the boat is ;) 35 miles ;D
I tell you if i know more, regards Hans
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That's fantastic Hans, thanks! :yeahbaby
Eddy
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I was wondering if any of the early paddle ferries had a totally open engineroom? Hjejlen, one of the "Castle" boats, Berry Castle, Kingswear Castle etc etc...
Does anyone know of a small paddle ferry with an open engineroom?
Regards
Eddy
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There is one in my avatar photo: replica PS Mary Ann (the original was built in 1853).
See www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2348.msg8831#msg8831
As a river pioneer, it was styled more to match contemporary UK practice than subsequent Murray-Darling practice, and had a wineglass stern.
I can't find the length fast, but I suspect 18 m.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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For launch inspiration, see also the range of launches in 'Large paddler builds - general discussion', including:
www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2990.0
www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3859.0
www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3849.0
www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3521.0
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Thanks for all the info Roderick - I may not be responding much, but I am taking note of each and every posting! So your efforts are appreciated!
I will eventually decide what it is that I'll build, but as I've said earlier, I'm in no mad rush.... I just couldn't bring myself to hiding a beautiful steam plant inside a conventional paddler where it couldn't be seen.
Regards
Eddy
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I just couldn't bring myself to hiding a beautiful steam plant inside a conventional paddler where it couldn't be seen.
Regards
Eddy
Good point this, Eddy. They should be easily seen and appreciated, I've always thought.
ken
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Remember Eddy,
With a little bit of ingenuity it could easily be made to look like a diagonal, so raising it further into view, and doing a direct connect to the shaft, that would also shorten the length required for mounting the engine. A win/win all round.
John
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Thanks John,
But would it have enough torque, and run slowly enough to connect direct to the paddleshaft?
I have other questions about the engine and it's ancilliaries, but I'll leave those until I decide what it is I'm going to build, so I have a better idea of layout etc.
Regards
Eddy
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My posted photo of replica PS Mary Ann attracted a lot of viewers, so here are more which are available instantly, all taken on Fri.26.9.03, between Torrumbarry weir (lock 26) and just downstream of the Campaspe & Murray confluence (below Echuca). Even if this doesn't become Eddy's next modelling project, they should be of interest to a lot of viewers. For me, they bring back magic memories of a grand river event, which resulted in my purchase of Jessie II as a retirement hobby.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Hi Roderick,
Do any drawings /sketches exist of the ps Mary Ann ?
Or is it possible to get some basic dimensions so I could draw some up
regards
kiwi
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Hi PD's......& yes Roderick...these snaps are an interesting depiction of our first OZ paddler the 'Mary Ann'
Reading through 'Parsons' provides a further in-site....but certainly sparten....no real covered accommodation...nor a bar facility to get a thirst quenching :beer after a standard 12 to 16 hour day @ the boiler room just under deck level
But that was OK as people from OZ are :yeahbaby :weight TOUGH....before we discovered iron ore to eat....we used 6" nails as tooth picks to remove the left over bits of garlic flavoured KANGA rump steak.....
In one of the .jpgs I think I see a horizontal plate over the boiler....I suspect this was the first OZ maritime BBQ plate :towel Derek
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Eddy,
But would it have enough torque, and run slowly enough to connect direct to the paddleshaft?
Those are only minor issues and easily solved. I keep going back to my little horizontal oscillator, that proves there is more than enough low end torque in these long stroke sizes of engines to turn paddle wheels at very slow rates and very low steam pressures.
Let the doubters doubt, but all will be revealed in the end. Nothing is insurmountable.
John
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Replying to 'kiwi', the question regarding drawings was asked in an earlier thread on the replica.
At the time I replied: 'I have followed up an earlier request for plans of the replica Mary Ann. They are not available from the building team in Mildura. As Sean suggested, they may be available from the designer, but I will not be in Mannum until Mar.07'. I haven't met Dick Bromhead since that post, and haven't asked the question. However, the replica boat was built to plans or sketches, and these must exist somewhere. Michael is more Echuca than Mildura with his contacts, but may be in a better position than I am to tap into the right people.
My own question relevant to this thread: when using the term 'diagonal engine' are people simply meaning cylinders on a slant, with direct drive to the paddleshaft? There are certainly lots of examples in prototype, including all of the Swiss ones, and my recently-posted photos of PS Waimarie (New Zealand). Echuca's PS Adelaide is another. They are certainly noticeably slower revving than geared or belt-driven paddlesteamers, and the transmission is much quieter, helping the exhaust beat to stand out more. I can see the fear that such a drive might not translate well into scale: prone to stalling?
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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I had another thought: the Yarrow boats for tropical environments (notably Myanmar, probably Egypt and some for India) were two-deck boats, but with completely open lower decks if a sternwheeler. See www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2862.0
A sidewheeler would have some of the view blocked.
That was the case with the typical Murray-Darling designs: because of the climate, and the use of wood as a fuel, at least one end of the boiler was open to view, but the engine was usually obscured from view by the paddleboxes and two or four sponson cabins.
Regards
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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PS De Schelde came by as I logged in tonight, as rare as getting four pineapples in a row in a poker machine at a pub. I grabbed the image, and placed it here so that all can see it at any time (Eddy can see it whenever he wants to). Totally open, and a great display case for a prized steam boiler and engine.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Hi PD's....some two years ago I posted questions on this vessel. which yielded ZERO response ...appeared to be totally mythical :nono was my conclusion....but why is the rudder off axis ....toward the STDB side?..........& where are those dreaded souls paddling to? ....Derek
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Derek,
Just a theory, because it is steered by tiller arm, if it was in the middle, the steersman wouldn't be able to see where he was going because of the boiler position, sticking it on one side might mean he can just lean over and see where he is going.
The ship also looks just like an old fashioned sail driven river barge, maybe just a quickie steam conversion job, and again would give rise to the offset tiller, the poor chap couldn't see past the mast that used to be on it.
John
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on the subject of a paddle-driven steam launch, I had a quick look through MB mag in the newsagents today and there's a pic of one inside (and a very impressive looking Great Eastern on the front cover!) I might even buy the mag later this week....
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PS Ilmarinen was my random image this morning: an open paddlesteamer with tiller steering.
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Hello,
In August 2004 I saw this interesting sternwheeler in Hraded Kralove, Czech Republic on river Elbe.
The vessel was private owned. Very interesting the oscillating long stoke engine which moves like larger sternwheelers direct to the paddle wheel.
The boiler was fired with coal. The boat was rather fast and the ebgine was running smoothly.
Regards Tom
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4787/unbenannt1xz5.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4787/unbenannt1xz5.jpg) (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6008/unbenannt2jd2.th.jpg) (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6008/unbenannt2jd2.jpg) (http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3251/unbenannt3ph7.th.jpg) (http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3251/unbenannt3ph7.jpg) (http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9558/unbenannt4rb3.th.jpg) (http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9558/unbenannt4rb3.jpg)
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I want to put one addition: Every June a nice steam festival will be in Hradec Kralove with at least two steam driven sternwheelers!
Please have a look at: http://www.paraplovba.wz/foto/c2.jp9
Tom
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Eddy have you had a look at the Traditional Boat Shop's site?
http://www.traditionalboatshop.co.uk/
There are links to follow like:
http://www.traditionalboatshop.co.uk/minette1.htm
The Swiss boat is actually a lengthened version of the Minette design and was built by Glyn Jones.
Also the Reliable Engine site has a plans section:
http://www.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEboats.html
And the link below is a colour photo of one of the paddle wheelers:
http://www.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEboats-rebel-photo.jpg
Trust this info helps from a new member.
I visited our local historical museum yesterday where they have a model of a drouger which was a working paddle steamer used in the pioneer days of this part of NSW Australia. Just a large flat bottom punt with the forward decks used for loading timber and then two side paddle wheels mounted aft. I live in an island on the Kalang River and we have the rusted remains of two of these vessels if you know where to look.
But the volunteer at the Museum informed me that they are holding the original lines plans of the one of these drougers. If I call around on one of the Monday morning after the Christmas end of year holidays he will show them to me.
I will keep members informed on what I find.
Rob
a newer member from down-under.
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Hi Eddy,
Any progress with your paddler design? I have decided 50ft passenger version is too big for now given the current market so will be looking to build something around 20ft initially as a toy. I do hope to progress with my passenger paddler sometime in the future. Current MCA regs mean a lot of time and work will have to go into the drawings/design.
I have wondered about a small (20ft ish) paddle vessel powered by electric or pedal instead of steam.
I understand Traditional Boat Shop have designs for paddlers up to 30ft including one on the lines of a Campbells steamer.
Regards
Chris
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No progress as yet Chris, it's been temporarily shelved in favour of some other builds..... I'll get around to it but I don't know when!! Too many projects and not enough time :(
Regards
Eddy
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I have been trying to find more online about the Rebel design but other than the site of her designers there is very little. Have you come across anything ?
Chris
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Hello Eddy,
I didn't go through the rest of this thread to see if this has already been posted but I thought of you when I saw this; http://books.google.com/books?id=KpxDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR9&lpg=PR9&dq=Steam+Launch+and+Yachts+by+C.P+Kunhardt&source=bl&ots=POl_pHHW3E&sig=d1rokNigFFQnEhJENbjWAK6vwwI&hl=en&ei=10-cSoHHM-WEnAfw7pyXCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=KpxDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR9&lpg=PR9&dq=Steam+Launch+and+Yachts+by+C.P+Kunhardt&source=bl&ots=POl_pHHW3E&sig=d1rokNigFFQnEhJENbjWAK6vwwI&hl=en&ei=10-cSoHHM-WEnAfw7pyXCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false) You may want to check out page 192.
Randy
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Thanks Randy,
I tried using the link you supplied, but although the book is listed, I cannot view it online - Can anyone else view this? Or is it just me that Google doesn't like? :darn
Regards
Eddy
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I had downloaded it yesterday from a link on another forum. Try doing a search under ether the title "Steam yachts and launches, their machinery and manegement" or the author "C. P. Kunhardt" when you find books listed make sure that it is a "Full view"
Regards,
Gerald.
PS I can only find what I am looking for half the time.
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Here's a nice one....http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1877-Engineering-Light-Draught-Paddle-Wheel-Steamer_W0QQitemZ180466641005QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Prints?hash=item2a04a6686d