Paddleducks
Paddler Information => Preserved Paddle Ships => Topic started by: lenknight on September 07, 2008, 08:44:08 PM
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Hello all,
I have just heard that the green light has been given to a major scheme
to redevelop the area around the PS Ryder on the Isle of Wight.
The project will see 119 holiday units built south of the existing
marina along with retail, parking and industrial units for boat
building and repair.
Members of the Isle of Wight Council's planning committee were also
told that the hulk of the paddle steamer Ryder will be dismantled as
part of the scheme and land on which the ship is currently lying will
be decontaminated. However, the historic vessel's engines are likely to
be retained on site and will form part of a static display.
Does anybody have any more news?
Len Knight.
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Re: End of the PS Ryde?
(I can only think this is from owners of the “Monarchâ€)
We keep our paddle steamer at Island Harbour, where Ryde is sadly
rotting away and I'm afraid things are not as they may seem.
At a recent parish meeting, the owner of the marina said that the
engine was sold to america for use in a new build steamer; however,
since then nothing has happened and other potential buyers have come
forward making offers.
If nobody gets some money together quickly, then all will be lost of
the Ryde and a great ship will vanish to a pile of rust.
On the flip side, the harbour has for some months not been able to
pay its staff on time and many suppliers have been faced with unpaid
invoices which doesn't bode well for future development!
Engineers have recently visited Ryde and declared her fit for
restoration (I know, I was shocked to hear that as well!) so maybe
there is a glimmer of hope somewhere.
I think that the promise of keeping the engine as a static display
is a smokescreen, especially as it was planned to be housed in the
new hotel which was planned to be built-alas this has unsurprisingly
not been given planning permission and will now not happen!
(Pick up by Len Knight)
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Hi Len,
All I can say is that if the engineers have looked and said she is "fit for restoration", they must have been looking at a different ship to the one I've looked at!!
Eddy
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Never seen Ryde myself but if the most recent photo (posted on here somewhere) was anything to go by, the only restoration would be one like Medway Queens' - ie build a new ship and re-use the engine and whatever fittings are still there....
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As far as I am aware, Island Harbour (owners) are reluctant to scrap it because scrapping it will cost more than the ship is in scrap value because they would have to get in specialist asbestos removers, which due to the amount in dangerous places hiring them would cost a fortune. But if it was saved, what would you do with it? All of us want to see it saved, but is there any buisness for it? Where would you keep it? What would you use it for? I just hope that something good will come out of it.
Jack.
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Hi jack et al. When I visited RYDE about 3-4 years ago I thought she was long past saving.
As to a use for her if she was saved, there is a pressing need for a permanent exhibition centre for Paddle and excursion ship history? PsPs have masses of archive materiel with nowhere to exhibit so what about a FLOATNG museum in a paddler? Just think, such a ship moored at Chatham, in conjuntion with Wingfield Castle and John Amos - now there WOULD be a reason to travel down to the "softie south" several times a year! regards, Walter.
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Wingfield Castle, Walter??? Have they moved her from Hartlepool then? :hehe
One of those senior moments again.... It's Kingswear Castle that's down in the softie south :)
Regards
Eddy
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As to a use for her if she was saved, there is a pressing need for a permanent exhibition centre for Paddle and excursion ship history? PsPs have masses of archive materiel with nowhere to exhibit so what about a FLOATNG museum in a paddler? Just think, such a ship moored at Chatham, in conjuntion with Wingfield Castle and John Amos - now there WOULD be a reason to travel down to the "softie south" several times a year! regards, Walter.
What an excellent idea!! Time for some fund-raising, me thinks ;D
Jack.
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Alright Edmund er Edwin er Thingy starting with an E!!, Yes, a very senior moment. Why do so many paddlers have CASTLE in their names!. Walter ( I think).
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How about putting her engines into Princess Elizabeth . . .
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Last year
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk98/youngpaddlewheels/2008_0320stuff0083.jpg?t=1234715398)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk98/youngpaddlewheels/2008_0320stuff0082.jpg?t=1234715414)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk98/youngpaddlewheels/2008_0320stuff0081.jpg?t=1234715429)
Ho hum
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Do not despair too much about the state of the Ryde concerning the hull repairs and floating in relation to the condition of the vessel. Her frame work was built to a standard to carry out the job intended for her, being a Ferry, to take considerable weight, and stress.
Her structure is of a good sound nature, things may look worse than they really are. Albeit I have not seen her recently, other than by various photos recently, I compare her with the Medway Queen.
The Medway Queen is a much older 1924 vintage, has endured more up and downs than I care to remember, she still existed in 2007, before dismantling for rebuild. She was built in 1924 to a tight budget, so was not “over engineered” as some vessels were at that time, her framework was rather slight, her whole structure is lightly constructed, but prove quite adequate at the end of the day.
As far as I remember the Medway Queen had spent about 10 to 14 years of her latter life under water, from the IOW to parts of the River Medway, from and up to, the main deck to the promenade deck, and been buffeted by river traffic while on the Medway, leaving holes on her starboardside, destroying her paddlbox as well..
On my seeing her at Chatham Dockyard in 1985/6, she seemed beyond redemption, we were informed by “people that knew about these thing” that we were wasting our time as she would “break her back“alone float.
Never the less the ‘Few’ rolled up their sleeves and set about this gigantic task, considered by the ‘know alls’ to be a waste of time. Basically 10 people laboured at this project, with some coming quite considerable distance to do so, with no thought of reward, other than success, some sadly are no longer with us. But grim determination alone, not just talk about it!!!
18 months of backbreaking labour, of moving tons of mud from the hull, plus repairs to the hull, that was like a ‘colander’ and a hole aft that one could easily get though, other than the frames, was just a challenge to overcome. By a system of using common senses, we even over come this by the use of chicken wire, plywood and cement, we eventually sealed the problems. All this carried out weekends, between tides, if not, worked above water line, cleaning decks, and so on.
We raised the ship and moved her down steam, some 10 miles, without much problem leak wise.
The ten or so were the last crew to sail her, and very proud to do so, I being one.
I could go on and on, but little use talking about it, rollup sleeves instead and get to it!!!
I am now 82, and have done my input, what more!!!
I had in the past along with John Kempton MQPS visited the Ryde, and met the two people that have, and are still trying to save her. Mark Young and David Edwards, that I believe had formed a Trust to this end, sadly little help from other quarters, other than talk. We gave the hull a look over inside, was in a better condition than the Medway Queen was in 1985. This was in 2006; the underlying condition structure wise was surprisingly good then, certainly fewer holes than the Medway Queen had in 1985. The condition of paint work, plus rust areas, is somewhat disheartens at times, but is not so bad once clean up, this from first hand experience, and encountered in my profession in the building trade,
Need I say more; under the circumstances the Ryde looks a reasonable good bet to me. I think this part, being less of a problem. As long as her ‘keel’ is sound, and I see no reason why not, her basic structure sound, all else can be replaced if need be, she can be saved, just the will to do so!!!
The ownership, a convincing, plausible part for her to play, finance, and somewhere to move her, without this it is all wishful thinking, needs more positive action, not just talk about it!!
I know at times we are told do not let your heart rule you head, but many a project has succeeded by doing just that, many famous people of yore, have seen their dreams mature, just a matter of determination one has to start, and finish, resolve not to fade between!!!
Len Knight MQPS.
PS have tried to add some photos of Medway Queen at Chatham Dockyard 1985-87. One being of myself emerging from the depths of the mud, others as seen when we first saw her.
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As an after thought, I have sorted a few photos out re the above, and will try to upload them, not sure if right or not, but will try.
However, if OK, they will show the engine (2), a shot of the engine-room deck-head.
A shot of the lower interior aft end and shot of Mark Young (left) David Edwards (sitting) and John Kempton MQPS. aboard the Ryde.
Len Knight
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Hello All,
I have received information about the P.S.Ryde, on the Isle of Wight, that there is now, what could be a last attempt to save this historic vessel.
She is now in the hands of ‘receivers’ that are asking for as ever over the top for her ownership, leading to any hope of restoration.
Please go to www.psryde.co.uk. To follow progress.
Len Knight, MQPS.
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www.psryde.co.uk. To follow progress.
Len Knight, MQPS.
The site doesn't appear to have been updated for a while (2004)? Is it going to be updated soon? ???
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Hello All,
I seemed to have clicked on the wrong link, being for e-mails, :oops re addresses, sorry, hopefully now put right!
www.psryde.co.uk (http://www.psryde.co.uk)
Jack, the Ryde site is up to date, 14th April 2009, albeit the News Page is not, then not much to tell at present. You can comment on the Message Page if you so wish.
Len Knight, MQPS :whistle
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Matt and Ian from Monarch were telling me that they have recently been on board to grease the engines for possible preservation. They also paid the last owners to go aboard and look for parts for Monarch. They were laughed at but they walked off with their mast, level console, engine room lights for Monarch and greasers for the engine! The also got the cast brass lever console from the engine room. It is to be sold at auction on 16th of June and is also so be featured on Flog It.
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It's quite true that we were laughed at! Poor old Ryde has had looters aboard for at least 20 years and it was believed that nothing was left...actually there wasn't really anything left apart from a couple of grease cups which had been slung around and the base of a light fitting which took a very long time to get even halfway restored!
The console was an amazing find though, it had been smashed up and scattered everywhere, including down in the mud under her sponson. It took at least 2-3 months of hard work to bring the thing back into anything recognisable and we're very hopeful that the national publicity from Flog It will help not just our cause, but also raise a bit of awareness of the Ryde as well (we're in discussions with the programme makers to take them to Ryde on the Monarch and do some filming around her). As the console is from the Ryde, the proceeds from it's sale will go to the 'Friends of Monarch' boiler fund account so that one paddler can help another.
The previous owners of Island Harbour were very proud of having the Ryde, but didn't quite know what to do with it, I think-it's a shame but I think that the cutting up operation must begin soon, for public safety.
BIG WORD OF WARNING!!
Ryde is in a perilous state now, DO NOT attempt to go aboard, keep your distance and be aware that even last year when we were on, the decks were very spongy and dangerous. There really is nothing, apart from the engines left on board, but if you go for a walk around the houses at Island Harbour you might recognise quite a lot of things like telegraphs, pressure guages and the like sitting in a lot of conservatories!!
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I see that PS Ryde is now on Ebay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Paddle-Steamer-Ryde-Trust-Donations-Urgently-Required_W0QQitemZ330334216973QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Nautical?hash=item4ce974230d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1684%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 - (OK, you don't actually get the ship for £10 - despite the bit that says 'Postage : Pick-up only - see item description...') what it says is;
The Paddle Steamer Ryde Trust - a company limited by guarantee is currently in negotiation to purchase the PS Ryde, and see her on her way to restoration.
She has been examined by experts and a full rebuild to incorporate all the modern maritime safety requirements is still viable.
We are now urgently seeking donations to help fund the works required to enable removal of the vessel from the mud berth she has occupied for almost 40 years and to deliver her to a shipyard to return her to her former glory.
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Albeit I am a member and supporter of the Medway Queen, I have a regard for the P.S. Ryde on the Isle of Wight. Both these paddlers were at one time a ‘Club House’ in the Island Harbour, now this status is long time gone. As you may know the Medway Queen after many years is now being restored. Not so the Ryde, laying derelict in the Island Harbour. There has been for many years an attempt to preserve her, in 2006 the ‘Paddle Steamer Ryde Trust ‘was formed.
It is but sad that parts were removed from the Ryde, at a time that the owner must have been aware of attempts by the ‘Trust’ to buy the paddler, shame on all involved in this. However more about this later, after I have collected more facts!!!! :'(
There is now what could be the last attempt to save this historic vessel of Second World War fame, I have received a press report from the Trust as below.
Regards Len Knight.
As many people will already be aware, the Paddle Steamer Ryde Trust was set up to rescue this historic, last-surviving coal-fired paddle steamer from Island Marina in the Isle of Wight, where the vessel has been since the 1970s.
P S Ryde was built for the Southern Railway in 1936, and operated on the Portsmouth – Ryde route as well as running charters and excursions on the Solent. During World War II, she acted as a decoy ship in the North Sea and participated in the D-Day landings at Omaha Beach. She is therefore quite justly on the National Register of Historic Vessels, and the Trust is determined to make every effort to make her seaworthy again.
She will be quite capable of at least covering her costs once the expensive work of restoration is completed.
Following a full feasibility assessment by expert engineers, the Trust is at present negotiating with the receivers of the defunct Island Marina business, and has submitted a bid for the vessel. Our bid proposes initially making the vessel fit to travel to a shipyard for restoration.
As time will be of the essence once negotiations are concluded, the Trust will urgently need working capital, and donations from supporters and friends will be most welcome.
Like the Medway Queen and Waverley, the Ryde is not only a valuable part of our heritage; she can give pleasure again to thousands, providing the kind of service she was built for.
For more information, and where to send donations, please visit our website:
www.psryde.co.uk
or: 40 Belvedere, Lansdown Road, BATH, BA1 5HR[/b]
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I notice some wag has removed the 'R' and the 'Y' from her name on her starboard side recently.
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Following a full feasibility assessment by expert engineers, the Trust is at present negotiating with the receivers of the defunct Island Marina business, and has submitted a bid for the vessel. Our bid proposes initially making the vessel fit to travel to a shipyard for restoration.
As time will be of the essence once negotiations are concluded, the Trust will urgently need working capital, and donations from supporters and friends will be most welcome.
I hate to be negative but making the vessel fit to travel to a shipyard - get real! I had a close up look at her a couple of days ago and there is no way she could go anywhere without major works and a major dredge scheme taking place - that alone would cost many millions - probably exceeding the cost of a newbuild hull at least.
Personally I'd just like to see her stripped of anything useful including her engine and then look to build a replica to modern specs that could possibly prove viable. Perhaps some of the stolen parts could be located too!
The current plan as detailed above sadly will never be a viable proposal in its current form . . . .
I will be down near her on Friday and will get some pictures to share.
???
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Excuse me, but I take great exception to your "shame on [you]" comment. Parts of the Ryde were not removed, stolen or taken deceptively but were in fact-PURCHASED; and as you may know the receipt for this has been shown to one of the Ryde trustees in response to the unpleasant emails sent to us relating to the matter from their Chairman.
For me it is more worrying that there is a "charitable trust" which after 3 years has been unable to register with the Charities Commission, has no publicly available constitution and does not advertise what will happen to any donations (which are being very actively sought) should the aquisition of the Ryde fall on its face again.
Yes, I agree with Channel that Ryde is beyond salvation and would go further to say that cutting her up is now a public safety issue. We can all eulagise about her current state-but I'm afraid you all sat there and watched it happen, the Ryde Trust was only set up 3 years ago at a time when she was already in a foul state. It's been left too long, and there are too many excuses bandied about that "the owners wouldn't let us in the past etc"-the truth is, everybody missed the boat.
The Medway Queen project is one of the most amazing ideas that I've seen, and it must be seen through to completion-whether she ever sails again or remains a solid and evocative static exhibit. Look at the amount of time it has taken the MQPS to get this far, could we really cope with another project such as this and could Waverley survive two extra paddle steamers in passenger operation?
Sorry to be in such a grump-having to deal with a man who wants Monarch banned from her harbour because he truly believes that paddle power is straight out of the arc and is dangerous....so foul mood today and on any warpath I can find!
Anyway, the engine room console from Ryde raised £620 which is going to towards the 15k boiler appeal. The result of this will not just be a greater amount of steam but also......coal/wood firing as well!!!
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I take in what you say, not with out problems I admit, and have passed on your comments to the Ryde Trust, that I hope will respond to your sad input.
As I am a preservationist of many years, your comments are but sadly contrary to the cause!
How sad when we should be all on the same side yet we are at odds. What gives you the right to say what condition the Ryde is in, as bad as what it looks Are you a valid authority on this I doubt it! :nono
Your input is as a Junior of your choice; please listen to the more cultured
I do at least declare my Credentials on site, what are yours?
I will say no more at present, but wait for input on this issue, the whole episode re the Ryde, no matter what, is some what sordid to say the least! :nono
The Medway Queen was in a far worse condition to this when taken over, only dedication prove it can be done, not tales of distress that you spread!!!!. :darn do not put down dedicated people, would it have taken so long if done so before!!! :sobbing
Sorry, :sorry
Len Knight
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MODERATED
Please refrain from personal attacks no matter what is perceived as a slight, can be easily mis-interpreted.
Jim
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Thankyou gentlemen,
Having received three complaints about this topic from people on both sides of the fence so to speak, can I please ask that we try to keep things civil.
I'm sure none of us want to see this degenerate into a slagging match, as that serves no purpose whatsoever. So if you have something to say of a personal nature then take it to email and discuss it privately with the individual concerned.
Regards
Eddy (Paddleducks Admin)
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Hello All,
Just been given access to the forum, and note all comments previous re Ryde, well, I certainly do not want to fall foul of admin in any way. Yes, the Ryde is in a poor state, but as Len rightly says, MQ was in a lot worse, and we are being rebuilt in Bristol. It took over twenty years and a lot of hard work, keeping the ship together and the society. The Ryde was built far more strongly than MQ ever was. Yes the Trust has been set up a while, but like all before we have been dealing with private owners who simply would not be realistic, albeit some parts they were willing to let go, the trust is now trying to work with the receivers, and with the example of MQ, Waverely, KC etc a lot can be achieved with the will and effort. We certainly do not want to get personal or into arguments with others, there will be plenty of others to throw brick bats, hopefully then not from the paddle steamer world so to speak.
John Kempton
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MODERATED
This post has been fully moderated. I remind you, as has been previously mentioned if anyone has a problem wth the content of the Paddleducks forum contact a Moderator. We will impartially attend to matters, promptly! If you continue to abuse the forum from which ever stance you have we will take action.
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May I first apologises to the Admin, all Paddleduck members if my comment seem over board re the future of the Ryde, and have offended, this was not my intention, as sadly the original remark was blown out of all proportion.
Only to bring her plight to more people, which I like to think I have done so. I fully respect that all have an opinion, and defend their right to express it freely, albeit not being what some may agree with.
I think I have made my point over this episode, and will rest my case on Paddlducks, nothing I had read has convinced me different to what I believe, however.
I would like to think the Ryde and her future can still be discussed freely, as I defend her right to exists as one of the few Historic Paddles of Great Britain, albeit the cost!!!
Kind regards to the Admin and members
Len Knight..
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Thanking the heavens that for once I'm not the one responsible for offending people on the forum!!! Maybe that last gin wasn't such a good idea!!!
Night Gentlemen
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A few pictures of the Ryde at Island Harbour this week. A sad sight - I admire those who are trying to save her but think its too late. I'd like to see her stripped of anything useful and the remainder sold for scrap. No way could she ever leave her current position afloat and in one piece . . . perhaps the current efforts being made should concentrate on saving some of her before it is too late and she is cut up for scrap. I can't see the receiver of the harbour wanting her being around much longer. ???
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast459.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast461.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast468.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast472.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast449.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast420.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast424.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast425.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast379.jpg)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/channelimages/SouthCoast386.jpg)
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The photos are very good and clear, albeit shows the deplorable state of the vessel ‘skin wise’, they only but reinforce my opinion of her ‘structural soundness’
The long shot show no problem in her basic alignment at all, means ‘keel’ is but still good, The ‘deck head’ framework, also very substantial. The ‘rivet head’ on hull, are but sound which tells me the basic frame work is also sound. True the plates are in some case beyond saving but can eventually be replaced.
As long as the ‘hull’ is stable, all other components can be replaced!
I have now seen the response by Harris Pye marine engineer, has now confirmed that the majority of the frames of the vessel and the engines are in restorable condition and that they are willing to undertake such a restoration if funding can be obtained.
The Ryde can be floated and moved to a pontoon, after basic repairs, this seems to be a fact!
I now reiterate maybe, but the Ryde, is in a better condition even now, compared to the Medway Queen, when she was taken over in 1985, all is possible if determined enough.
I do not intend to keep bantering on over this subject, as some are determined not to see the possibility. I thank you for recognition of those that are trying at least.
The only debateable points, I am willing to discuses are of course ‘cost’ and ‘practicability’ of this project, this maybe the only point we are agreeable on.
But all is lost if the ‘engine’ is sold to an independent group, after the ‘Trust’ have struggle over many years to securer the future of this vessel., how sad.
So much for our concern over the preservation of Historic Ships for the future.
Len Knight.
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Hi Len,
I'd be interested to see what costings have been made by Harris Pye for rebuilding the vessel - an educated guess would be in the region of £10 million with additional costs for removal - these would vary greatly depending on the method used. Personally I see the only way is to section the vessel for reassembling at a yard. I have a background in towing, dredging and salvage work and see that to be the only practicle option that wouldn't cost the earth!
Sadly our marine heritage plays second fiddle to other heritage sectors - certainly within the railway preservation world there are a number of wealthy backers notably Jeremy Hoskings.
If money were endless then I'd say it could happen but in these present times many groups are seeing a reduction in donations. We must also consider other projects that will be looking for more funding in the future - the Medway Queen being a notable candidate along with Maid of the Loch and of course Waverley will be needing another rebuild although not so extensive as her most recent ones in the not too distant future - the boilers have had a mid life re-tube which would suggest they are halfway through their life. Whilst there's interest in the ships at present I wonder about the future. In my late 20's I am one of the few who have become interested in preservation - these ships will only survive in the future if they are commercially viable.
Lets say the Ryde was moved from her current position and work commenced in a shipyard with funding in place how would the MCA class her - I suspect they would regard her as a newbuild and as such she would have to comply with the latest regulations. As we know from the Medway Queen they can put a spanner in the works and not issue a passenger license. Looking towards an operational career I would be surprised if she could be viable on the South Coast only so would have to follow Waverley Excursions model by moving around the coast.
I'd like nothing more than to see the Ryde operational again but don't think funding would be forthcoming within the time frame needed to save her. I suspect the receiver of Island Harbour will want her hanging around too long and any potential new owners certainly won't.
Regards
Chris
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Hi,
I think the only parts to be used for a "new" ship is about 60% of the framework, engine and wheels, as well as some fittings. the rest has to be built new. And why not.
Most of the rust holes they will find when sandblasting the framework.
And, however, why not to make a new hull with annother framework, als shown in modern ships.
That´s how the replica of the DIESSEN PS was done, but, I regret without steam engine.
Andreas
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And, however, why not to make a new hull with annother framework, als shown in modern ships.
That´s how the replica of the DIESSEN PS was done, but, sa I regret without steam engine.
Andreas
Makes sense to me ;D
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Hi All,
Many thanks as ever to Len and his succinct comments as ever, also to channel for the pics. Well, yes she dose look in a state as one would expect, but....all doable, saw the Tornado steam locomotive on Top Gear last night, OK ONLY 3 million for a replica, ie your comments re the railways and funding, at this stage we need to save her as is, yes of course there are questions to sort and we are not blind to that, but we have lost far to much of our marine heritage by sitting around talking, oh dear what a pity, its all to difficult. With some great examples of say the VIC 96, Daniel Admason, Waverley, dare I mention Medway Queen? we hope to have a press release very soon, and see what support we can get, we can at least try,
Johnk
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Good luck with your efforts, look forward to seeing the press release . .
Chris
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Hello all,
Thanks for your latest input and of course with very debatable points to say the least
I see John Kempton has added his comments, quite a chap, I think he knows more about floating a ‘Paddle Steamer’ on a ‘Shoe String’ than many more, not just talk about it but doing it, but that’s another story to bear in mind.
As he has already said a ‘Press Release’ is on its way from the ‘Ryde Trust’, so will not steal too much from it at present.
However, as you have all said, more than one way to move the Ryde, as we know it is all about money or lack of it. All the enthusiasm in the world is of little use if not available, not to forget volunteers as well. Albeit a small amount can do the trick, as we proved with the ‘Medway Queen’ we raised her and moved her on the shoestring scenario, in1987, can be done. I have no idea how much was spent at the time as I was just an helper then, inspired by the few, that viewed failure as not an option, the enthusiasm was but contagious then, basically by ten active people working on and for the ship and also raising money, any which way we could. We paid for materials out of our own pockets, even borrowed money on our homes to pay the receivers £15.000 to buy the ship, need I say any more. We were consider candidates for the ‘funny farm’ by some, other said we would never do it in a million years, albeit sympathetic, but dealing with eccentrics. I doubt if £50.000 was spent overall, but we done it!!!!
Since then more restrictions are now in place, one is the removal of asbestos in procedures, cost possible up to £20.000, and other safety needs.
By Medway Queen methods or an employed salvage team, floating or, disassemble as we did, (as an option to move to Bristol recent), bearing in mind would be several legal requirements now to either way before this could be achieved. 300k to 500k would be needed at a rough guess, mine not the Trust.
Her eventually restoration is a long way to go, she is a registered Historic Vessel, which means can apply to the Heritage Lottery Fund. But as already pointed out many projects in the queue, but no need to go into all the pitfalls over this at present, one step at a time.
But the possible cost relating to today’s prices in restoration is difficult, in as much as how the job could be done, and under what restrictions. Under the HLF there are very strict rules to comply with, if done privately more lee way, could be half of cost.
The Medway Queen had a quote from Sweden for the hull as specified by the HLF for a riveted hull at 8 million pounds, but Ables was basically 2 million pounds.
Hypothetically, one possibility is private money; weld hull (not rivet) then would comply with the MCA possibly for passenger quota (maybe new build) would be the latest updated paddler built in the UK, that could possible conform to regulations, think of the implications of that.
All far less than 10 million pounds, possible eight million pounds.
All I am saying is ‘faint heart never won fair lady’ determination is the key, anything is possible, never say never!!!
Kind regards, and thanks for your understanding.
Len Knight.
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Well folks it seems history maybe about to repeat its self, 30 odd years ago the ‘Daily Mail’ highlighted the plight of the paddler steamer Medway Queen, this started of a steady interest in this historic paddler, this resulted in today’s rebuild of this ship.
Now the ‘Daily Express’ has done likewise for the Ryde:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113330/Full-steam-ahead (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113330/Full-steam-ahead)
All is possible with a bit more political will and positive thinking about our historic fleet that could be, bearing in mind other European countries can support their paddle steamers much older than ours, and that we have the largest coastline of any individual European country, and not as some at home being ‘prophets of doom’ before even trying to achieve saving their heritage. How sad, I feel it is better to have tried at least, than not at all.
I have set up a Yahoo site to this end albeit basic at present, re the Ryde if anyone should be interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friends_of_the_ryde (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friends_of_the_ryde)
Regards Len Knight.
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Hi all,
Just seen latest ex Len and indeed we were very fortunate to get the piece in the Sunday Express, thanks to our contact Ed Baker. We are still trying to sort something for this great ship, but need more support as ever, especialy on the IOW but beyond of course. The fustrating thing is that as Len and I know, it can be done and should be done, yes it takes some doing of course. If it was easy.....
JohnK
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Well, we go to visit the Ryde every day on the Monarch...sad to say that more deterioration is to be seen to the hull and it is beginning to deform. Sadly there is little chance of saving her, ........and before anyone shoots me down; not my words but those of a naval architect and very large ships surveyor of 30 years (passenger aboard at the time).
I think its best that everyone's money just goes into the Medway Queen to see her finished.
I am told that the engine is likely to be sold off separately-and that this is inevitable due to various reasons, which will make the rebuild/restoration of this ship impossible. The reasons for this would probably end up in a big fight on the forum, which I do not want-therefore I shall not go into them.
I have to be honest, until KC and Waverley make enough profit to be guaranteed in the future, that is how I would like to see things rest. Those two beautiful ships need no competition in such a restricted market.
Lets just gather up her history, document her and consign her to the museum. I have to be brutally honest-that is how most of the Island folk feel...and I am a paddle boat fan!
It would be great to see the Ryde back in her former glory-but ask yourselves....is it realistic?
Sad news, but sensible I fear?
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Well, like you say, I to do not want to get in to arguments and fights on the forum, don't really help, but...disagree with you, to lose such a ship is not acceptable, your arguments have been applied to Medway Queen before, competition with other ships, lets just rip the engines out and put them on display, we've got photos etc. I can commend the fact you post under the Monarch name, at least it is clear where you are coming from, and can understand your position. You clearly have local knowledge as to the fate of the engines, and as known, have had dealings with at least one piece, the engine consol panel. I am sorry that it seems not only you but others who I would have thought would be supportive, seem determined to see another piece of our maritime history destroyed.
Johnk
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I applaud those who are taking on the huge task of restoring the RYDE. Whether they are, or aren't, successful isn't really the point. The fact that they are willing to offer their time, effort and, often, money is to be commended and they shouldn't be derided for this. Regardless of whether we agree on the practicality of the project.
I don't have any strong opinions on the restoration, but just a quick word of defense, which isn't necessarily an indication of my opinion on the project. While she isn't such a big boat as the RYDE, the HERO was pretty stuffed (attached is a pick of her before salvage). From what I understand, there is not a visible piece of the boat that is more than 12 years old. The original material is confined to some planking below the waterline (and maybe some frames). If I'm wrong in any of this I'm sure that Michael or Roderick could provide correct information. There were people who challenged the sense of rebuilding the boat, but I think she's proven to be a worthwhile project.
As for the notion that the RYDE would be one paddler too many... If the UK, a country of 60 million people (and more visitors), can't support 6 commercial paddle steamers there's something wrong. In Echuca, a town of less than 20 thousand people (admittedly there are a lot of visitors) alone there are 7 commercial paddlers. Admittedly, they are much smaller than most of the UK boats with lower running and maintainence costs, but 7 days a week, most days of the year there are usually at least 3 boats running. That's just in one town!
From another perspective, I do wonder whether a vessel which requires such a substantial rebuild with so much new material could really be considered to be the original vessel. From what I've read about the work being completed on the MEDWAY QUEEN, I can't reconcile it as being the same vessel. However, there is a link which is stronger than that which a pure replica possesses. And it's all a matter of opinion really. I hold the same reservations about the HERO, yet I don't feel the same way about the ADELAIDE. There is very little, or no, original material in her... Well, the engines are original & probably a few bits of the superstructure. I think it's more about an emotional response, and a reconstructed RYDE would provide this opportunity for people, whereas a replica wouldn't.
So, while we are all entitled to our opinions, maybe we should be a bit more reserved in expressing them. Reading this thread, I've begun to feel that it has become a battle along the lines of "I'm right, you're wrong" between two distinct groups. Maybe we could tone it down a bit and be more respectful to each other, because I don't think anyone has been proved right or wrong... It's mostly been an expression of opinion which has been formed by parties based on their perspective. Lets not forget, most commentators in this thread have a vested interest in the RYDE project in one way or another. We don't have to all agree, but we don't have to support all proposals either. This forum is about sharing knowledge and potentially building support for preservation projects. Constructive criticism and differing opinions should always be encouraged, but we're past that now. To continue with the same arguments is neither constructive, or interesting. It's repetitive and damaging to the goals of some and the forum generally.
I apologise if I've overstepped the mark by making these comments, however I'm interested in reading about the RYDE project (whether realistic or unrealistic) and have found the tone of the thread disappointing. I would like to clarify that I am not directing my comments at any particular individual or point of view, there hasn't been a lot of restraint excercised by a few posters. So, please do not take offence. If anyone feels that I am out of line, please let me know publicly, or privately.
Regards
Mac
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Oh yeah, the HERO in the 90's...
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Have you seen these? (http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=376935)
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Hi All,
Many thanks as ever to Len and his succinct comments as ever, also to channel for the pics. Well, yes she dose look in a state as one would expect, but....all doable, saw the Tornado steam locomotive on Top Gear last night, OK ONLY 3 million for a replica, ie your comments re the railways and funding, at this stage we need to save her as is, yes of course there are questions to sort and we are not blind to that, but we have lost far to much of our marine heritage by sitting around talking, oh dear what a pity, its all to difficult. With some great examples of say the VIC 96, Daniel Admason, Waverley, dare I mention Medway Queen? we hope to have a press release very soon, and see what support we can get, we can at least try,
Johnk
Hello all as a keen supporter in the world of paddlers. I've only ever seen PS Waverley once and that was an entrancing glimpse I say that anyone who is prepared to stand up and endeavour to preserve these beautiful ships deserves all the support that we as enthusiasts can muster. No matter what side of the fence you stand on. Please be as supportive as your morals allow and give these chaps the support that you can.
regards
Jim
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Thanks for your comments Jim, that all we ask for is a fair 'crack of the whip'
However,
Since my last commutations, things on the Trust side are moving, a new website will soon be launch, and charitable status is now in the pipe line, with a CAF bank account that can accept donations, funds are starting to come in.
It now down to the receivers to play their part, whenever!
Watch this space!!!
Len Knight.
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Hi Len,
Finally managed to get signed up. Dont know what I was doing wrong before, but better late than never I guess!!
As Len says, currently the Paddle Steamer Ryde Trust has just sent back the last couple of forms requested by the charity commission, so charitable status should be through very shortly.
There will be a new website through very shortly, just a matter of finishing off some content, and it will be up online very soon.
And ownership!!! Well, that is being worked on, and should be coming to a successful conclusion, although as with everything it all takes time.
Its nice to see all the support already that we have been getting, and I am pleased that people can see beyond the rust.
To reiterate what Len has said, we have had surveyours over Ryde a couple of years ago (and they will be back before we complete on the aquisition of the vessel, and there findings wernt massively horrible!!
Basically though, and the nail has been hit on the head in this forum, she will require replating, she will require an amount of reframing, she will require new decks, new interior, new boilers, a bit of work on the engine and perhaps a new window here and there......but.......hasnt Waverley had some/a fair bit of new plating? Some/a fair few new frames? Some/all new decking? Shall I go on?
The long and the short of it is a steel ship, and salt water = repair+replacement over the years, it is all stuff that would of been done by now if she had been in constant service since 1937 anyway.
What we are trying to achieve is another operational paddle steamer for the nation!! If English Heritage had stopped at one castle as an example, where would we be? There are quite a few English Heritage sites in the UK, and all of them money makers!!
So to sum up, where we are coming from is Ryde has a good amount of history (more than most). The south coast has a good tourist trade. An we have a fair old bit of water around here, which has nothing of her sort plying a summer trade here, and wait for it, most people that will go for a paddle steamer trips arent necessarily enthusiasts, so wouldnt go trawling over the country to find one.
We have an opportunity, and we are most certainly taking it, but we will need everyones help.
Watch this space!
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OK, I am in need of help!!!
The new website is nearly ready to go.......but!!
I need some people who enjoy adding the wikipedia............only...........I need them to add to a wiki that is just about to go online on the Ryde site. A Rydeapedia shall we say.
It will be along the same lines as the Festiniog Railway's wiki (http://www.frheritage.org.uk/wiki/Home_Page), only all about Ryde.
If you can help and what to help, please contact me, and I will get you involved. The more information relating to Ryde, her career, her engines, her builders etc etc, the better on it really.
Obviously a good place to source some information will naturally be wikipedia!!
Mark.
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Further to the 'Flog it' programme being aired on Friday:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00p2gvy
We have been inundated with people concerned that Ryde is imminunately going to be scrapped, and what has happened to the console.
I can confirm that to prevent to console being lost into a private collection, the PSPS now have it in their collection.
With regards to Ryde being scrapped, this is currently an unfounded rumour. The PSRT are working to acquire the vessel to prevent this, and under no means should people think we have given up as we certainly haven't. We soldier on!!
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I notice today, for those of you that missed 'Flog It', that someone has posted a link to watch it online on one of the Isle of Wight forums.
http://ventnorblog.com/2009/06/16/ryde-queen-raises-600-for-ps-monarch/comment-page-1/#comment-79149
Wasnt sure whether I could post the links to watch it online here, so thought it best to post a link to the post........if you see what I mean.
Anyway, in the mean time, things are still progressing slowly, but surely. Hopefully some better news soon, but being December, I think the festive season may well slow it down even more.Mark.
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A posting made by Len Knight on the Yahoo Group "Friends of the Ryde"...
I have sadly received information from the Ryde Trust that the ship is being demolished by her owners/receivers, more disturbing is the fact that no contact seems to have been made with the Trust, before this was implemented.
Not exactly good practice, as the Trust was to all intents and purpose still in negotiations to buy the Ryde!
If fact, this is deployable bad practice to say the least!
I will keep you informed as I receive more info, below are pictures of the start of this deployable act
Not sure this is the correct H&S means to demolish anyway, re asbestos, Having been involved in this with the Medway Queen, the procedure was by far different to this approach, all areas had to be sealed before removal, not much evidence of this here!
http://s1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/e-trotters/PS%20Ryde/
Regards
Eddy
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I saw that. It's a shame, but it was always going to happen-and please DON'T take that comment the wrong way!
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Hardly a surprising move. Be nice if her engines and other useful items such as winches etc were saved though . . .
Farewell Ryde . . . .
Chris
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Hi,
Yes, as Len has pointed out, works have started on her demolition. Not much more is clear at the moment, and as it stands it doesnt look like anything else is going to happen for a fortnight.
We were as surprised as everyone else, but it looks like the administrators didnt take us seriously, and after reading many posts by people that are 'Hardly surprised' by this, and the fact that people had relayed such comments directly to them, it seems Ryde's wellbeing wasnt at everyones heart.
Like I say though, works have stopped for the timebeing, so we will keep you updated. We are working to see if there is any chance of saving anything at all from the ship, but even that is unclear at the moment. It wasnt for the lack of trying from the Trust, but it seems that things/and some people were always going to be against us.
A post I pointed to above to show where people could watch flog it, seems to have been used to discredit us, and many of the things that happened like this, really didnt help our cause.
We have and will continue to do anything we can right up to the bitter end.
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Hello,
Just to support my collegues and friends Mark and Len, no I don't take the wrong way your comment "it was always going to happen" just don't agree, we certainly did not take that view and still don't, very little of our maritme heritage would be here today if we did, from Medway Queen to Kingswear Castle, in the teeth of what Mark right points out, is a deluge of hurdles and negative comments from many quaters.
John Kempton
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We are currently working with the NHS, PSPS and others to get a stay of execution for Ryde, so that a sensible solution can be worked out.
There are many many people involved in this project, so please bear with us on bringing information to you.
Like we say, we are still in shock ourselves that this route has been taken, when as a Trust we have the backing of the PSPS and NHS, and have everything in order to take this project on, when all that was required was the ownership of the vessel.
Instead for some reason a route that costs the administrators and creditors in turn money has been taken, rather than a route that would have brought them a little money and a lot less bad publicity!!
We dont want to give up on this piece of our history, so please back us up. We need widespread coverage with this. We are working on media coverage in the South, and will soon be able to produce more facts as to what has happened to gain more coverage everywhere.
Regards
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Thanks for the update Mark, it's good to hear that you're still fighting the good fight on this one. From the photos it appears that the work so far has involved removing the collapsed funnel and fiddley, which would need to be done anyway even if the boat was to be moved intact and restored. The forward deck saloon is also damaged, but presumably this would also be rebuilt in the restoration (I don't think the Waverley has anything left original from the deck up since her last rebuild), so I don't see the Ryde being any less restorable now than she was before the demolition work began.
As for all the naysayers, just remember you don't have a "they said it couldn't be done" project until somebody tries to tell you it can't be done. Just ask the MQPS or the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust about that! Unfortunately, it seems that in this case there are some who just don't know when to shut up and get out of the way, an attitude that makes about as much sense to me as the "we'd rather have her rotting here than restored somewhere else" attitude that the marina owners held for so many years. Can we stand idly by and watch the stubborn short-sightedness of a few destroy a ship that has given heroic service to her country and pleasure to so many? The Ryde needs all of our help now more than ever. Don't give up the ship!
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It appears the heads of the PSPS are shocked. Myra Allen phoned us the other night asking us what we knew, and she said something about a museum wanting to buy the funnel to display 'saucy' postcards inside it?? I don't think that anyone could easily walk inside the thing and besides, it's knackered...if the scheme's true it's a rather far fetched...
I think that Ryde should be saved, yes, of course I do. I just don't want to see the PSPS get too involved...they've already got one millstone round their neck and that's Balmoral and they've got enough trouble running Waverley...
I've put a banner link thingy on the YPW homepage and will send out a flyer to the junior members...most of them are children of 'proper' society members so hopefully they'll get past on etc...
I think the problem with the recievers is that they have no interest in Ryde...they see Ryde is a liability and all they want to do it get rid of it as soon as they can which is probably why they chose the route they did.
If the Ryde was to be saved I think the oppurtunity has just presented itself.
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It appears the heads of the PSPS are shocked. Myra Allen phoned us the other night asking us what we knew, and she said something about a museum wanting to buy the funnel to display 'saucy' postcards inside it?? I don't think that anyone could easily walk inside the thing and besides, it's knackered...if the scheme's true it's a rather far fetched...
I think that Ryde should be saved, yes, of course I do. I just don't want to see the PSPS get too involved...they've already got one millstone round their neck and that's Balmoral and they've got enough trouble running Waverley...
I've put a banner link thingy on the YPW homepage and will send out a flyer to the junior members...most of them are children of 'proper' society members so hopefully they'll get past on etc...
I think the problem with the recievers is that they have no interest in Ryde...they see Ryde is a liability and all they want to do it get rid of it as soon as they can which is probably why they chose the route they did.
If the Ryde was to be saved I think the oppurtunity has just presented itself.
Balmoral is a very versatile ship . . . . . she could be operated succesfully on her own and return a healthy profit. She is far from a millstone, perhaps wrongly managed at times probably as a result of the paddler taking the spotlight. If this how members of the PSPS and the PSPS themselves feel about her perhaps she should be seperated from the operation and put into the hands of managment team dedicated to her operation and future . . .
Long live Balmoral. Farewell Ryde!
www.mvbalmoral.co.uk
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Cant really say much to the above post, other than WOW!!
Anyway, NHS are still working hard today to try and get a stay of execution, phones have not stopped ringing with the media, as Jack has said, hopefully a last opportunity.
I do understand what you are saying Jack, and you are quite right, the PSPS have enough on their plate in some respects, and this was the reason for the PS Ryde Trust, basically a body 100% dedicated to the one vessel. Never the less. Myra's hard work to help us has been crucial as well as Martyn Heightons, so really its an A++ for their efforts at this final hour.
With regards to the funnel Jack:-
http://www.donaldmcgill.info/Funnel%20on%20Tour.html
The funnel had indeed been purchased, but it seems that there was a lack of regard even for that.
We will keep you all posted, and in the meantime all I can say is finger tightly crossed that everybodies hard work does pay off, even though some dont seem to appriciate the effort that has gone into this, which is deeply saddening.
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I have been following the saga of PS Ryde with interest. Let me perhaps account for the 'Lack of interest' or 'negative attitude' to the project.
First of all my own position is that ANY part of our maritime heritage is worth preserving if possible and practical.
The basic problem is that the hard core enthusiasts for this sort of effort, be it ships, planes, cars, steam locos whatever will for obvious reasons always be in the minority. Artifacts of Ryde's age unfortunately are not 'old' enough to have the rarity value of say the Mary Rose and the demographic of the population has now reached the stage where people who had direct experience of things like Paddle Steamers and Steam locos are very few. The baby boom generation were brought up on comics and stories related by those that DID have direct experience, so have a degree of affection for these things. The current generation of parents and wage earners (the ones that WOULD make a difference) have little enthusiasm generated by direct memories to take an interest.
This is perhaps best illustrated by events of the recent past such as the National Maritime Museum SCRAPPING the Reliant paddle tug and converting the hall she was in into a kiddies buttons and bells fun park with a slightly nautical theme. There are even plans afoot to decimate the Caird Library - probably the foremost maritime research facility in the country.
We also live in a world run by accountants - who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The sad truth of the matter is that without some 'big guns' on the side of the preservationists, projects like this become increasingly difficult to achieve.
I wish the project success but I am not being negative - merely pragmatic when I say that at the moment it would appear that there is insufficient interest to get any meaningful help financially - let's hope that changes.
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
Its sad to say you are completely right!!
I neither would have had any interest in these things, until I experience the Waverley first hand, and its only through the good work of the Paddle Steamer Preservation Society that I got that opportunity. We have all seen the major works that Waverley, and come to that any vessel have to undergo in their lifetimes to stay in operation, which is why the people that understand the true value of these things work so hard, in much the same way as the PSPS have worked with Waverley......To bring something that once was, and still is a very powerful reminder of the greatness of our country.
Thanks for your support, and that of rjenkins and I am sure the majority of people.
Things are taking time, but it looks like the possibility of a little more time is on its way.
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Sorry for all the hush, and at the moment I cant bring you much more than that unfortuantely.
As things are at the moment, we are still negotiating (with the aid of other bodies) to purchase Ryde.
Even after our recent visit with a number of experts:-
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/news.php/83/visit-to-paddle-steamer-ryde
It is still deemed that Ryde should be restored. There is a good amount of material that should not be lost, so we are working hard to try and do something.
At the moment the problem is still as ever, ownership. Without this, little can be done.
The amount of support has been phenomenal, with over 3000 signatures on the government petition, an number of Facebook groups:-
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37751275797
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=299770656788
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=286520707370
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=16614377937
And no doubt more!!
The press have been fantastic, newspapers all over the country, and the BBC have also been great.
It is hoped we will find a way of getting out of the deadlock with our negotiations, so that we can then get on and work with the true experts to see Ryde saved.
As Len has pointed out so many times on this thread. The framework of Ryde is amazingly thick, and alot of it still in good condition, so although it is a massive task, I am sure I dont have to point much futher than Waverleys rebuild.
Flick through some of the photos at:-
http://www.psps.freeserve.co.uk/rebuild/diary.htm
http://www.btinternet.com/~Paddlers/PSWaverley/completion/diary/index.htm
Hopefully these will give you a taster of what work keeps a ship like this running.
Thanks again for all of the support.
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A few good aerial shots of PS Ryde can be seen here - http://marinas.com/view/marina/7432_Island_Harbour_Marina_Newport%2C_Isle_of_Wight_GB
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Received yesterday from a County Councillor...
Dear X,
Just to let you know that the removal of the Ryde Queen was agreed as part of a planning application that was approved last night. So hopefully they will get on with it quickly."
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As an estate agent for more than 10 years I have dealt with many awkward parties, but the whole issue surrounding Ryde has never made much sense to me.
You offer money, it gets ignored.
You offer a solution, it gets ignored.
You offer a route to save a important part of our history, it gets ignored.
You wish to destroy one of the very few paddle steamers we have in the UK, and councils and administrators want to go ahead with it.
I got involved with Ryde, when she was still floating, and even then, there were people who wished to see her scrapped.
To be fair look at Lincoln Castle at the moment? I just dont understand the logic, and before the word 'money' is used, thats not the logic at all, during the time I have been involved in Ryde, there have been opportunities, and yet the owners every time have not been interested.
As for the County Councillor's comment of:-
so hopefully they will get on with it quickly
It just goes to show they are not working for us, as obviously they havent weighed the petition up in this, or contacted the Trust who have been working for a solution. Having lived on the Isle of Wight all my life, and dealt with a number of people in Councils and still have my ear to the ground, there has and will always be an amount of corruption, which generally involves money or who your drinking friends are, and obviously even who has sordid secrets with who!
Once again, many thanks Isle of Wight Council for you total lack of support. Lets see how many more possible attractions you can remove from the Island, after all its only tourism that keeps us going in recent times.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Matt. Its a shame the Council couldnt see far enough to do the same!
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Well said Mark, I could not add more to this forthright statement, with out being told I was going over the top, albeit the absolute truth.
I just feel sad that it seems, 'Islanders' have stood by and watch their 'Paddler' slowly deteriorate, more so some even give the impression were prepared to 'Put another nail in her coffin' professing sorrow, but showing little positive action to even help to show their support.
My commiserations to the Trust, and those that have supported the Ryde Trust, but have been let down by their so called sea faring nation, that, but talk in most cases about our Maritime Heritage as ever
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@monarch
Please could you assist in letting me know which planning permission this is, as I cannot get any sense from the local planning office.
I feel I am being left in the dark a bit here.
Thanks
Mark