Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: Ernie Lazenby on August 30, 2008, 07:35:20 PM
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These are Fabers drawings submitted to the USA patent office. This is the model I mentioned in my introduction post.
A couple of pictures of the build very soon.
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Sorry fiorgot to mention all the scribble and lines on the drawings are mine done to help me draw up sections.
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Is that boat really going to be able to plane? Curious...
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Boy I really do hope it does! ;D It would be a sight to see and we could all start thinking about how to build a paddler to break the world waterspeed record. Where would we be without people who dreamed eh?? ;)
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Hello Ernie and PD's,
Was a prototype of this design ever built? Was it successful?
Here is my uneducated prediction as to what is going to happen;
I notice in the diagram a shroud that fits over the wheel (Notated as K'). Without this shroud the paddlewheel would fill the hull with water in a matter of seconds, so the shroud is necessary. At the same time I see this shroud as a problem. Upon starting the paddlewheel, I forsee all the air within the shroud being sucked out and the water that replaces it will cavitate (simply spin around the paddlewheel). There will be little forward motion, if any, and not enough to make the hull plane.
Even with angled buckets, I still think at any kind of RPM the paddlewheel will "slap" the water rather than push the water. And that would be only at start-up. After that, the aforementioned problem would follow.
I would certainly like to see you build this Ernie and it prove me totally wrong. Like I said before, this is only an uneducated guess. I have no math and no experience with paddled speed boats to back up my prediction.
And if it doesn't accomplish what it was designed for, turn that four cylinder engine sideways and put a prop on her. It will almost certainly hydroplane then.
Randy
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A lot of the concerns expressed in this thread are covered in Fabers text he submitted with the drawings.They are an interesting read!
The point of this exercise is to prove or disprove his theories. I have no idea if the model will work but as they say if one does not try one will never find out!
The construction has started.
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Hello all, I was listening to the radio last week and the person being interviewed had a wonderful quotable sentence. "If you can dream it, it can be done! " An excellent ethos to work to.
cheers
Jim
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Okay I can start posting some photos first the Paddlewheel under construction. Painstaking work!
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and the stepped hull. Note the big hole in the middle of the boat where the padle wheel fits into.
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Looking really good Ernie - You've certainly made some progress in the last week!
Regards
Eddy
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Thanks Eddy , you know me I have to make progress before the jam jar arrives!
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Hi Ernie,
do you have more photos of the wheel, it is an interresting piece of engineering.
Regards Hans
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Absolutely fascinating Ernie. I am really looking forward to seeing this one run.
Andrew
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I have got a lot more done in the last couple of days. Almost completed the mechanism for driving the 'paddlewheel'
5:1 geared motor fitted with an aluminium toothed pinion (12 teeth) driving through a heavy duty toothed belt to an aluminium pulley (24 teeth) shown in the following photographs.
I have designed a system that allows me to remove the entire wheel complete with bearings and all from the boat without a major strip down. (4 bolts)
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another view
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and another
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I have made the rudder according to fabers drawings. Its a strange shape!
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Way cool, can't wait to see this one on the water!
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Mechanism now fitted and it runs very nicely. I put the motor into a box which will eventually simulate the small petrol engine intended by Faber to be used. (some scale work to do!)
Bath test tank testing later today and lake testing on Sunday.
Hope it works, if it does I will make a superstructure/do the cosmetcis and generally make it look good.
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Hi PD's.......Ernie ...we can see the 15 mm wide kevlair reinforced urathane drive belt....but is the ratio 1:1.3??????......must be a pretty healthy motor under that cover & capable of ????? 15000 RPM unloaded... so does this mean a 2000 RPM & 20 amp current draw? ....I am not sure what will happen to the vessel as the discharge of water from around the herringbone wheel seems to be the question....... :beer Derek
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Bath tests done and encouraging. Water does not get into the boat because of a close fitting lid across the enclosure where the paddle wheel is.
Current draw is not a problem. Out of the water the drive system is drawing around 2 amps. I have not measured it yet under load but it was sat running flat out in the bath for 5 minutes and the speed controler (20 amps) did not get warm at all. Motor geared 5:1 fited with a 12 teeth pinion to a 24 teeth drive wheel total of 10:1 reduction.
Ran it on 6 volts and have the facility to go to 7.2 or 8.4.
The lid acorss the top is clear and therefore I could see the flow of water coming off the blades. On each side of the mechanism well above the blades I have two vent pipes fited in accordance with fabers theory; I could see air bubbles coming out under the hull rearwards of the blades and therefore i assume air is being drawn in via these vents.
I have no idea if this model will go at any great speed, I doubt it, but it certainly has forward thrust and so far I am happy at what i have achieved. Sunday will see exactly what its able to do when i get it to the lake.
the model sits nicely on the water, approx 1/4 inch(quarter of an inch) of the hull is displaced.
At the end of the day I have no doubt that I will have a Paddle wheel boat thats unique no matter what speed it does or does not do.
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Ernie,
At the end of the day I have no doubt that I will have a Paddle wheel boat thats unique no matter what speed it does or does not do.
That is the correct way to look at prototypes, then there is never any disappointment, only jubilation if it goes better than you thought it would.
A superb build on your part.
John
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Please Post Videos if you can?
It looks great.
Regards,
Gerald
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Hey PD's,
Though not Faber's Paddler, this is one very fast paddlewheeler! http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=02DKzQFsgJU (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=02DKzQFsgJU)
Randy
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There's a coincidence, I was just watching that too!
this clip is a bit longer (not much though...)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=meDcNK0-tio
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First lake tests of this unknown & untried concept were interesting. The boat works in that it goes forward at more than walking pace and is much faster in reverse!; several reasons why this may be so. Drum may need to be reversed. or the step forward of the paddle box is too big and is blocking supply of water to the blades. Motor cold /speed controller cold so next tests will be on 7 cells = more revs without altering the gear reduction. In reverse the motor good clearly be heard to be loading up more and this is most likely due to the increased volume of water in the box.
More experiments needed but I am very hopefull that if the speed in reverse can be applied to forward speed it will be impressive. As it is the boat works and is quicker than any paddler I have seen!: I am pleased that 100 years after Faber submitted his design something has hit the water and moved.
Eddy has taken some video footage.
I think tinkering with the engineering and design is an interesting challenge.
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A couple of photos showing Ernie Lazenby's paddler hydroplane during it's first on the water test... There are also two short videos to show it in action which can be found at:
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=778
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=779
Not the best quality video, as they were taken on my stills camera, but I hope it gives a flavour....
Regards
Eddy
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That is very impressive Ernie, for the first trial runs.
Keep up the good work, and I am sure you will soon get it cracked.
I played about with stepped hulls a few years ago, converting one designed for ic to run on electric power. I used a combination of blutack, thin plasticard sheet and thin aluminium ducting tape to carry out quick modifications to the steps. Had it all cracked within a couple of hours of it being on the water, then a few hours in the shop modifying the hull to my water test findings.
My main problem was that going from an ic diesel engine running at say 5K RPM to a hot electric motor at 10K RPM, I had a lot of ventilation caused by the last step before the prop.
John
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One of my friends who plays in the same chess team as myself is a lecturer in applied physics at the univeristy and for years was head research scientist for a company. It took him all of 2 minutes to conclude that the step I had put in front of the paddlebox was producing 'negative energy water'
I altered the step and tried the boat yesterday. A marked improvement in forward speed without turning the paddlewheel around but thats probably still on the cards. Unfortunately the gears in the geared motor stripped probably due to me going fully into reverse before the drum had stopped turning forward. I am going to use a different gear system but leaving the toothed wheels and belt.
On top of that I also noticed that I had got the front of the boat slightly wrong probably in my haste to prove the paddlewheel theory. I noticed that the line of the underside of the hull near the front and extending rearwards had some 'rocker' in it and this will prevent the front lifting up. I spent 3 hours today sorting that out.
I am convinced the theory is sound and I can get more speed as soon as I sort out these initial teething probelms.
I have also sourced a very nice lady who makes 1/12th scale figures to order fully poseable and highly detailed. She is going to make me a rich gent in his tweeds etc to go in the back holding a tiller arm and also a mechanic to be seated near the engine. Not cheap at £38 each but very nice with proper cloths and highly detailed features.
After much discussion and amusement in our house I am calling the boat 'The Henry Faber' my wife wanted it called the 'Hadron collider' !! She thinks the drum wizzing around is amusing.
t
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Hello Ernie,
Well I'm glad to see that your experiment is proving me absolutely wrong. I have a question; I didn't notice it until now but, from what I gather from the drawings, the vanes on the paddle look to form a "V", with the bottom of the V the leading edge in forward rotation. Yours, as built, looks more like (for lack of a better description) a frown, with the outside edges being the leading edges in forward rotation. So, am I reading the drawing wrong (it is awfully small) or have you some other reason for the choice? Secondly, what do you estimate to be the RPM on the wheel while in the water?
Keep up the good work and next; see if you can get it too hydroplane using steam! There's a challenge for you. ;D ;)
Randy
OK disregard that previous message, I just took a closer look at the original drawings and see that the leading edge of the vanes are on the outside of the wheel. But I also notice that the vanes are more of an upside down "V" than a "frown". So I'm wondering if that might have an influence as to why the boat goes faster in reverse than forward?
Randy
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....see if you can get it too hydroplane using steam! ....
As I remember, there was an article in one of the mags (either Model Boats or Radio Control Boat Modeller) way back in the '80s, of a similar boat to Fabers but it had a stern mounted wheel (of the same design) chain (?) driven from a triple expansion engine just in front of it. The rest of the hull was taken up by a flash boiler and its burner/fuel. There were photographs of the engine, wheel and boiler - so it certainly got beyond the planning stage! I don't know if it worked though, probably didn't get the next months edition ???
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Re. the 'goes faster in reverse' effect...
I'm probably on the wrong track here but a thought occured to me...
I noticed looking at some bits and pieces from my younger days (I was temporarily lured away into model cars) that some of the performance motors have + and - terminals and a direction of rotation arrow, and the commutator brushes are angled to give higher speeds in that direction, they will reverse as you sometimes need it but not very fast. I also remember that the MFA motors I got for the tug also have this which is why I went to such lengths to ensure they run the right way when going forward.
Just wondering what type of motor you have...
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An update. More trials and testing! I have got this model moving much quicker now. Dropped the gear ratio to 4:1. Small problem the one motor on a Hughey precision gearbox burnt out!! Smoked quite a bit. I am now fitting 2 motors to the gearbox (its a twin motor version) to help take the load. To help balance the boat i have moved the drive unit to the rear of the paddlewheel.
I am doing a lot of scale work on this model and today painted it (photo soon)
The editor of Marine Modelling Magazine (the mag I wrote for 12 years) wants an in depth article about this boat so some time next year an article will appear. Hes talked me into churning out a couple of more 1. An article on the 1/6th scale gas turbine Bluebird I built (The one on youtube) 2. A general article on uptodate technology.
As soon as this model is finished I will be making a model of Albert Santos Dumonts Bias 18 Hydroglider powered by a twin blade air prop. I have started to draw up the sections and its going to be big at 5ft long.
Back to Faubers hydroplane (correct spelling has a u in his name) Fauber submitted a lot of designs in the USA for hydroplanes but could not get anyone interested so he moved to France where he is more well known.
The bottom line is that although I have not got this model fully planing it is moving along at a pace and I will get it onto the plane. The wheel and drive train are holding up fine at 4000revs PM plus.
One point- the editor of the magazine and I talked about the possibilty of me drawing up a set of plans fo Faubers boat. Just to test the water does anyone think such a plan would hold any attraction?
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An update. ....................
The bottom line is that although I have not got this model fully planing it is moving along at a pace and I will get it onto the plane. The wheel and drive train are holding up fine at 4000revs PM plus.
One point- the editor of the magazine and I talked about the possibility of me drawing up a set of plans of Faubers boat. Just to test the water does anyone think such a plan would hold any attraction?
Only if you can post the plans and the Article here at the same time :great :terrific :yeahbaby.
Seriously I think the Article and Plans would be a great Idea, If you do them please let us know which issue they will be in so we can hunt them down (none of my local Hobby shops Carrie the British Magazines).
I think your work on this subject has been fantastic.
Regards,
Gerald
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Hi Ernie,
Definitely go with the article and plans
way to go
kiwi
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Here are some more photographs. I have turned the paddle around but because of a frozen lake have not been able to test it . I have been working on some scale detail.
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another one. Gravity fed fuel tank. Two water tanks for altering the trim. Hand crank operated water pump.
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The workings
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The back end. The tiller arm moves with the drivers arm(or is that the other way round!)
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Having seen Ernies model many times in the flesh, I can honestly say that it's looking very nice. I still feel he has a way to go to get the maximum performance from it, but give him his due, it does get better with each outing!
It will be interesting to see if the change to the paddlewheel will make a significant difference - We need some soft water for him to do more tests, and for me to get my cigar ship wet for the first time!!
Regards
Eddy
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awsome :) i like the hydroplane, but the one i have is a racing-racing one, never seen a paddle version, really cool :) how is the speed? :)