Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Construction => Topic started by: derekwarner_decoy on January 24, 2007, 12:46:47 AM
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Hi PD's - Richard.... if you progress a new model of PS Adelaide.... the detail should be here on this new thread as above - self asssistance may be required in that you can go back & import previous postings on PS Adelaide back into your new folder/ thread - you could always start your new Adelaide folder in the PHOTO :kewl GALLERY
One of the points made by Sean is that Adelaide was converted :crash from ROUNDISH to SQUARISH paddle box profiles..... & then back again.....
Question for Sean......why was this so :?: ... I have a snap of Adelaide with port side round & the stdb being encased as :oops squarish if needed - Derek
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Quote from Richard....
Pictures of the PS Adelaide would FANTASTIC and the more the merrier! Would it be alright to post them in here or should I start another thread on the building of the PS Adelaide? I'm guessing pictures of the Adelaide would be as it is today with the round paddle guards and lowered rear cabin. My current thinking would be to build it in this form as it was originally built and not the modified square box version.
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Change of company, change of working role. The use of square boxes was to enable more stock and cargo t be carried on board the boat.
Sunken cabins can be very hot because of the engine, an above deck cabin is cooler as such.
Change of owner might of just liked the square wheel boxes too!
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Wow Derek a new thread on building the PS Adelaide. Guess I have to build one now!
I just got the Float-a-Boat plans back from photo shop today 150% bigger. These plans are for 1924 -85 square box version which is not what I want to build but most of it should be useful. I would like to build her with round boxes, low rear cabin and the big steam winch up front.
What I really need now are lots of photos - upclose detailed photos rather than postcard shots. A trip to Echuca is not really possible in the near future with work commitments (3 day drive from Queensland?) so I'm hopeing there are other sorces to build from. I got onto the Port of Echuca gift shop page Sean and there are 2 books one is the Paddlesteamer Adelaide and the other is Murray Darling Paddleboats. I've order both of these but do they have plans for the Adelaide as a seperate item?
The boat I plan to build will be 1/16th scale , 1.5m long. Very rough sums say a displacement in the 10 -15kg range. I'm thinking of planking her in 2mm ply and building layers of fibreglass inside for strength and water proofing. This would give the look of the real planks on the outside but with the functionality of fibreglass. Any thoughts?
I've a had a play making a paddle wheel from 2mm ply on the CNC. The full size ones look flimsy, light constructions so I don't want to over engineer the model ones. I've simplified the shape by not tapering the spokes into the hub the reason being stronger like this, easier to make and they are not really seen when finished. Too much 'scale builders licence' do you think? If the ply ones aren't strong enough I could cut them from polycarbonate sheet maybe. To make them from brass would make each one about 250grams but I could then build in the 'crank' into the hubs. Again any thoughts?
Richard
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Just uploaded a stack of pictures of Adelaide into my photo collections. One of square box but the rest all round box. Tried to get as many angles and as close to detail as possible. I have no engine shots in my collection. Not all my photos are on there but all the most detailed ones are there, and interesting angles etc.
Plans are not in either of those books, give the Port a call and they should be able to send the plans to you.
Hopefully they are of some assistance.
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1 thing I ask: Please Please Please paint in traditional colours of light creme and brown, not the new 'Echuca' colours!
Cheers!
Sean
Oh thought I'd add the planking looks good, Adelaide's wheels are 14foot in diameter so they're quite large, and what may appear 'flimsy' is far from, the real ones are made from strong metal and look more sturdy than you'd think.
There's an interesting photo in the Adelaide book (which myself and Mick can vouch for it's goo history as I sent him a copy) of the Port shipwrights attaching the wheels to the hub...very good photo, definately interesting.
Both good books you've purchased. Do you own ships of the inland rivers..."the bible" of Murray paddlers? You can get that from the Port too. The plans used to hang on the exit doors with a sign of their prices, A.A was the cheapest (there's not much to her) Pev and Adelaide were much more detailed. Definately give the Port a Call
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Hey Sean --- :kewl of PS Adelaide..... .jpg ID1013 shows the :ohno squarish paddle boxs, but also confirms a steam winch on the foredeck... could this have been in her 1963 period @ Hopwood Gardens Echuca :?:
Derek
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Hi PD's - Richard... just :thinking ... 2 mm thick ply planks - ply is a inflexible material & resists gentle sanding
:idea: - consider going to your local BUNNINGS store & purchasing 10 mm thick X 100 wide random groove cedar panneling
This material [Canadian] is ...:-
1) fine grained, beautifully differing in colour or hue
2) easily saw ripped into approx 3 mm thick planks
3) loves water for steam bending
4) easily sandable for tapering & sectioning plank lengths prior to gluing
5) with the internal roughness after planking accepts the internal coating of glass cloth epoxy resin
6) :terrific & then sands well with minimal effort :hammer
I understand that cedar is technically a soft material compared to say marine ply. but the reinforcement you have installed inboard will provide the insurance you require
Please consider........ as if you use 2mm ply, you will need 1Kg of automotive KARFIL bog to straighten out the mess :rant :shhh :sob Derek
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Hey Sean --- :kewl of PS Adelaide..... .jpg ID1013 shows the :ohno squarish paddle boxs, but also confirms a steam winch on the foredeck... could this have been in her 1963 period @ Hopwood Gardens Echuca :?:
Derek
Yes it is in Hopwood. It's not my photo but my Mum's old boss' who said I could use the photo, so there it appears.
Still long before restoration, square boxes with winch, and the walkover bridge over the engine pit.
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:idea: - consider going to your local BUNNINGS store & purchasing 10 mm thick X 100 wide random groove cedar panneling
This material [Canadian] is ...:-
1) fine grained, beautifully differing in colour or hue
2) easily saw ripped into approx 3 mm thick planks
3) loves water for steam bending
4) easily sandable for tapering & sectioning plank lengths prior to gluing
5) with the internal roughness after planking accepts the internal coating of glass cloth epoxy resin
6) :terrific & then sands well with minimal effort :hammer
I understand that cedar is technically a soft material compared to say marine ply. but the reinforcement you have installed inboard will provide the insurance you require
I agree with Derek. Cedar is really a good material for planking model boats. Especially tight grained red cedar. Fence board cedar is usually too course grained. Go for finish grade cedar. Pick out flat grained boards so when you rip it the planks will have vertical grain. The VG planks bend easier. I use a planer (finish blade with no set) saw blade to rip my wood into 1/16" (1.59 mm)- 1/8" (3 mm) thick. I prefer to go the 1/16" thick route as it gives me less problems in bending. I also can fit the planks closer together with out too much beveling of the edges. The plank thickness will, of course, depend on the frame spacings. Cedar makes a really light weight hull. You can fiberglass the inside and leave the outside natural of fiberglass both sides and paint it. It makes a very strong, and beautiful hull.
Bill
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Thanks guys for all the info and a very big THANKS for all those pics Sean. Lots and lots to think about there.
This is just quickie reply before heading out to work ( on Australia Day!).
Thanks Again
Richard
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Hey any time Richard, I hope your project works out in the end!
Happy Australia Day Aussies and I have to work too!
Just a quick on the side note to aussies in Victoria: The Political Cartoon in the Herald Sun is a paddle steamer with John Howard at the helm towing the other state premiers in a row boat. Nice boost for us paddler fans on Australia day.
Sorry for that slight off topic there.
You musn't forget the meat safe Richard, very important part of the Adelaide. The original is located at the Historical Society Museum. I'm pretty sure the steam whinch is located somewhere at the Port too...can't remember exactly where.
The newly refurbished cargo shed has a 'Philadelphia' wheel house, modelled on the Adelaide though. It has her throttle and forward and revers control in there to try out (not that you can move the latter) and of course her wheel...however if you were going with that for wheel accuracy I don't think I would trust it, all controls are ound behind the wheel in the display and would make it a tangle to drive the boat.
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I'm heading off to Bunnings this morning to see what cedar I can find there. I was looking at ply because I built a Chris Craft Barrel Back a few years ago which was double planked with ply as the first layer and mahogany as the finish and I found it really nice to work with.
I must admit that my only experience with cedar so far was building a sauna 3 or 4 years ago and then using the left-overs to build a quarter scale Tiger Moth. Not sure if this is same stuff we are talking about. Sure has a nice smell though.
I've nearly got the frame together after a few hours on the computer cleaning lines up. The more I use this CNC thing the more I wonder how I coped with out it. It allows you to build almost as quick as you can think up ideas with repeatable accuracy I could only dream of with the old scroll saw.
Off to Bunnings !
Richard
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Please tell us more about the CNC machine Richard, who makes it, how much does it cost etc etc?
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Hey Bundy - please tell us the hull frames shown are only templates for the real one's that will be 10 mm thick minimium
Don't make the mistake I made :ohno :oops by using 10 mm thick MDF board for Decoys hull frames - a relatively inexpensive material is again the random groove cedar - glue two sections together & hey presto you have the 200 mm high profile required & easly sandable for the required frame bevelling & profiling - MDF is literally SH*T material - compressive strength is great, will stay square but to sand is an issue & has ZERO strength when nailing into the "end grain" - approx 280 holes were drilled for the 0.95 mm planking pins for Decoy
Considering that you intend to glass cloth & epoxy resin the hull internals, common PVA [Aquadere] will be fine for the planking in conjuction with the bronze planking pins
The "Modelers Shipyard" in Nowra [NSW] sell planking screw pins - check their WEB site as these are an invaluable aid :bow when :hammer - another gluing aid are those plastic tong type clamps [five for $ 2.00] at the two dollar shop
SUPAglu was an invention between NASA & the need to glu skin back together in WAR zones :offtopic ...it bonds materials but has no strength - don't use it :darn
Lastly for stability when planking, you may wish to screw & glue your hull frames to the center keel [guessed as 25X10] as shown, and also with the hull frames inverted, secure say 4 of the hull frames back down to a flat surface - this will assist in ensuring that the final hull will be true, square & symetrical......remember ....1 plank on one side, then repeat... 1 mirror reverse plank on the other side :luck
:thinking - next time you go to Bunnings again, check out the 50 Ml bottles of Feast Watson Proof Tint....beautiful natural earthy translucent tones for cedar - you could also consider pre-staining your planking - Derek
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No joy at Bunnings unfortunately. No cedar and their suppliers are saying no chance of getting any at all before the end of Feb at the very earliest. Best he could suggest was balsa or maybe pine. I had a hunt through their racks and found some good clean lengths of pine and have ripped them up into 8 x 2mm planks which look like they may do the job.
I have to keep in mind what I'm trying to recreate here. The attached pic of Sean's gives the basic atmosphere, warts and all of a working boat made 140 odd years ago and not a pristine modern day work of art. I think it will be very difficult to make a hull that actually looks like the pictures with all its little imperfections. I'm loosely aiming to replicate the Adelaide as it might have been at the turn of last century when it would have been 35 plus years old and very much a working boat. The hull will be painted ( the 'right' colour Sean of course - any pictures of this colour scheme?) and the deck very much weathered. How this will be done convincingly I have no idea yet - more research needed.
I'm planning for my hull to be a little unconventional in having no formers left in. It will basically be a solid fibreglass hull with a veneer of real wood planking. My formers a 3mm ply with a 6 x 3 mm capping strips ( does my plane building heritage show too much?) which should give me enough 'meat' to fair the flow of the formers with the Dremel. About to play with the position if the bearding line which is something I've never tackled before.
The reasoning for this approach is with the lessons learnt from the Mississippi, I need to keep the CofG low and vast majority of its expected 10 - 15kg displacement way below its scale 2.33' water line so I plan to build up a very thick lower hull with multiple fibreglass layers tapering to deck level. This will be much easier to do with no formers in the way and with that much glass, not needed. I can then do a scale wooden deck structure and boiler/engine mounts.
Thanks for the Modelers Shipyard info - I will see if I can find their web page. A friend who builds static model ships was showing me his planking screws and saying how useful they are so I will have to chase them down. Bronze pins from the same people?
Some pics of the garboard plank soon which should mark some progress.
Just got some exciting news from Don of LhDockyards. My Zulu plan has just been sent and the "Old Smokey" cold water smoker and steam engine sound unit will be sent in the next few days - should all be very interesting.
Richard
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Um somewhere I have some but they are film photos not digital, so not on my computer. I will get them for you though, I'll skip through my collection. I won't have many though
Sean
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Bit of an update on my Adelaide build.
Can not get cedar here in Bundy and I didn't like the pine available so I've gone with plan A and am using 2mm ply. It doesn't bend well but I am making a paper template of each blank and cutting on the CNC which is working really well if a little slow. Thick ZAP is sticking the ply down easily enough and I'm using a small belt sander to smooth it all out. Not the way it is done in the classics I'm sure but I'm happy with it so far, it is very strong and when glassed and painted should look the part.
My JJC 'Old Smokey' cold water smoker arrived and seems to make just the right amount of 'smoke' for the Adelaide. Still waiting on the Zulu plans to arrive :(
Has anyone got or know where I could get some upclose pictures of the inard workings of the real Adelaide's engine room? The Float-A-Boat drawings have some details but a few pictures would make it all so much clearer.
Richard
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Gee that's looking good.
I think the best person to ask for photos would be Michael, because if he doesn't have photos already he can go to the Port and take some photos for you.
I don't know why I've never taken a shot of the engine before.
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Hi PD's & yes Bundy you have made some progress, but one or two questions
1) are the plans imperial ", or metric mm ?
2) what is the actual depth of hold [deck level to keel plate] 'a mid ships'?... from the :kewl & the 300 mm rule as a guide I guess approx 5"
3) what are the principal model dimensions?
Derek
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Hi Derek
Specs for the original are as attached from the Float-A-Boat plan I'm using and it is imperial. I'm building to 1/16th which in metric gives me a LOA of 1455mm, depth of 95mm and a measured hull width of 320mm.
Given the hull shape is fullish, square shape and not highly tapered I'm guessing a displacement of around the 15kg mark to get her to sit at her nominal 2.3 feet full size water line. Is there a more accurate way to calculate displacement at this stage?
Very nice pics of your Decoy there Derek. Is there a thread going somewhere on how you are doing such fine work? I'd love to understand how such fine details are achieved.
Richard
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The hull is looking really nice so far Richard..... Can't wait to see it slowly come together. I always enjoy watching other peoples builds, there's always something new to learn from the way other people do things.
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Hi Bundy - a few ...... :computer comments/answers would suggest
1) thanks for the dimensions :rant :shoot
2) AutoCAD 2004 MarineCAD @ $9000.00 per copy will provide any dimensional to displacement issues - I too cannot afford a copy
3) My guess of your PS Adelaide is more from your estimated 15 Kg to the 19>20.5 Kg displacement range :?:
4) Question - Is there a thread going somewhere on how you are doing such fine work?
5) Answer - yes I have previously acknowledged the 'Daniel Bourard' WEB site via our links - this French model builders work was the inspiration for me to convert from VOLTZ to real STEAM & I have never looked back :ohno apart from my AMEX billls - however during the next months I will :crash :crash - until I get it ....acceptable - Derek :beer
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Heres a front on of her engines, got more if you want them
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Hi All
Just logged in here and saw your pic Michael. Thankyou heaps!!! That is just what I needed.
I've got a few things on at the moment but will post some progress pics very soon. Hull is now glassed inside and out and ready to paint before moving onto the deck structure.
Thanks again
Richard
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I've got a few other projects on the go (sadly the Zulu is still not amongst them - lost in the mail it appears) so progress on the Adelaide is steady.
As you can see in the pics the glassing is finished inside with 4 layers making it all extremely strong at 3.5kg. The outside has been sealed with 2 layers of epoxy but I feel I've smoothed it out too much for the look I was after. There will still be a hint of the planking underneath but not as much as in Sean's pics of the real thing. Plan is to paint the hull at this stage before cutting on the sponson beams.
I've also been playing with the winch as well on the CNC. I really love making this sort of detail but lack of prototype information is a problem. I've got a few sketches from the Float-A-Boat plan and Sean's pic from the park and that is it. From looking at similar winches I should be able to make something close to the real thing but some pics of the real thing would be so good. Anyone have any ideas?
Richard
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That looks like a really good start on the whinch to me. Have you tried photos from say the Godson collection or some other photographic collection, they might be of some help. Check through some books if you have them available, or when I get a free moment I might be able to.
Sean
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I have added a photo of the double winch from the tugboat sternwheeler Portland to the photo gallery. For some reason the forum would not accept my photo as an attachment.
Bill.
[Edited by Admin to include the attachment]
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Thank you Admin. :D
Bill
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Thank you Admin. :D
Bill
Hey, I was just sitting here twiddling my thumbs, so it gave me something to do Bill :lol:
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There are two winches sitting on a railway truck at the Echuca wharf. One is from the SUCCESS... The other, I'm pretty sure, is the ADELAIDE's. Maybe someone can get a pic of these, as most winches on Murray boats were pretty similiar.
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This is the best which I can do on the hard drive already: cropped and blown up, and not scanned afresh.
Oscar W's winch seems to be more elaborate, as it can be used as both winch and hoisting mechanism for the jib crane.
On this Randell Cadell 150th anniversary voyage, Oscar was carrying wood for itself and for other boats. Wood would have been aboard barge Dart, but lack of crew resulted in the barge not leaving Goolwa.
Above lock 6, in the dreaded Warrakoo, Oscar was stuck on the bottom. Some of the wood was offloaded; the winch was then used to haul the boat off the bar.
Back in the days, paddleboats not equipped with winches would wrap a rope around a paddle, and use this as a winch to get out of trouble.
I also saw the crane in action for the Goolwa - Port Elliot railway 150th anniversary: Oscar loaded two bales of wool at Milang, and offloaded them at Goolwa.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Richard,
Your winch looks pretty much authentic although I don't think plastic will hold much. :D The spool should have a drum flange on the side near the bull gear. This drum serves two purposes. The outside is the brake drum while the inside should have a V groove around the inside at the outer circumference. Between that drum and the bull gear (mounted to the bull gear) is a plate with a circular wedge shape clutch material. On the opposite end of the spool shaft is a screw type clutch assembly operated by a leaver. When this leaver is moved front to back (depending on how it is set up) the screw shoves the spool against the moving clutch on the bull gear thus engaging the spool to wind the cable in.
Roderick's picture has a combination winch. It has what looks like a spool for running a crane and also capstan winches for rope.
Richard, your hull looks really good. The no bulkhead gives you lots of room for engine and ballast.
Bill
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Spurred by Bill's helpful explanation I have taken time off from Feb.07 RNV to find and scan my best photos of Oscar W's compound winch. These were taken from PS Industry, and I have cropped the excitement of the event - the wharf was packed with onlookers. Former Deputy Prime Minister Fischer addressed the crowd, and stressed the importance of the 1854 event for Australian overseas trade, and drew a parallel with the recent extension of the railway to Darwin. When hoisting of the bales commenced, I was in a position where the working winch was obscured from view.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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The first is from the era when it was in Hopwood Gardens, Echuca.
It has not snowed in Echuca; and the boat is not decorated for Christmas.
The effect came when the print was made from a slide.
When I locate the slide (not this week), I will scan directly from it and replace this scan.
The photo was taken in Sept.65, and is from my father's collection.
The second is scanned from a print made from a slide using an interneg process, so is quite fuzzy when blown up. It was taken in Sept.62, when PS Adelaide had been brought back to Echuca, but was not yet in the gardens. Again, when I find the slide, I will go for a direct scan.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Thanks everybody for the input. I'm starting to get a better idea of how this winch goes together but a few more detailed pics of it as it is now would be invaluable.
Attached are some scans of the plan I'm working from. Bill's explanation makes a lot of sense of how the winch should work but I can't really see the clutch in the plan drawings or in the attached pics of another small winch I found. Am I missing something? I'm also confused as to what colour the winch was. Roderick's pic looks like it was black yet the Hopgood park pic shows it as green.
Do the 2 attached Adelaide pics towing its barge show the cream and light brown colour scheme you are talking about Sean? I think the light cream colour I've used on the hull is too light and will need a respray. It certainly looks more like a working boat than a tourist boat in that scheme.
I've started working on the deck which is starting to give it some shape. Does the deck really curve away this much?
Richard
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Just realized that red winch being a single cylinder has it's clutch on the small drive shaft. The Adelaide's with 2 cylinders couldn't work like this so would have to have a clutch on the bull gear as Bill explained but I can't see it in the drawings.
Richard
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Hi PD's & well Richard.... being a traditionalist, :sorry, but I was unsure of the frameless construction concept for the hull for your PS Adelaide....but from your :kewl ... I must say :bravo - we can all see the hull & well constructed deck supporting structure progressing
Remember [ :hmph ], I opened this thread for you as :luck ... please open your own PHOTO Gallery home page & upload a snap or so a week as history of the build
regards Derek :computer.... :angel..... then we PD's can just..... :gather.... & have a :beer & enjoy the progress.............
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I'm just posting some pics of the Adelaide, showing the winch, that I managed to find online. Plus a recent one of her at the wharf. It was part way through her refresh. If you ignore the superstructure & look at the hull you can see the colour she wore after restoration for many years.
I've got to ask, what period are you hoping to model her in? And, are you trying to be historically acurate? If you are, I don't think she ever had a winch at the same time as having round style boxes. And, until restoration she looked slightly different to what she does now. Her wheelhouse was rebuilt in the period after conversion to square boxes. Probably the during 30s, or 40s. It used to be much smaller & the roof of the upper deck had no overhang.
As for colours.... I'm not sure what she wore in her working life, but I'm pretty sure that in the 50s & 60s she was a light cream with dark green trims. I'd also take a guess that the winch & machinery were painted black, but the winch may have been prettied up when preserved in the 60s.
By the way, sorry if my posts seem blunt, but I'm trying to type my thoughts before I forget them. So they don't sound pretty :oops:
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Mac Excelsior's images of Adelaide are wonderful. I have only just viewed that magnificent video 'River boats remembered' for another thread. It was assembled from multiple moving images held by the national film archive. A lot of sequences feature PS Adelaide: in its working career, going up into the park in Echuca, and being returned to the river.
Since Richard Bundyrap lives in Australia, the video can be obtained by him readily. I have yet to work out how overseas readers can obtain it (or even play it: it is VHS not Beta); but perhaps it is on dvd by now.
I am not a modeller, but I was impressed by a railway modeller, who had a diorama of Richmond (NSW) station. I asked about the period in which it was set, and he gave a precise date. I asked how he could be that precise with a model, and he pointed with pride to the height of the geraniums under the window, and showed me the (dated) photo on which it was based. If the aim of modelling a paddleboat is utter authenticity, the same technique could be adopted. Do authenticity and the ability to sail on sheltered water clash as design goals?
In another thread, we are tracing the ability to cruise a cardboard boat. Apparently the technique is to encase the cardboard with fibreglass, then burn the cardboard away. That is like the Australian recipe for galah (highly relevant to the paddleboat era): place the galah in a dixie (a large billy, ie cooking pot) of water, together with an old boot. Boil until the boot is tender. Throw away the galah and eat the boot.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Hey Bundy, have you ever thought about building the boat with square boxes? It'd be a bit of a different model to the others out there. I personally quite like the Adelaide with square boxes.
You could even use a different name for the boat. There's a kids novel called Mystery Aboard the Murrabit. It was written in the 60s & the author did all the illustrations herself. The Murrabit was very obviously the Adelaide. In the text she even described the conversion from round to square boxes & the removal of the sunken cabin. Using a different name would give you a little licence with colour & the like!
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Richard,
looking at the pictures of the winch It looks like a different method of clutching is used on your side of the pond. I am guessing, Looking at the winch from the engine side, that the clutch band (the band with all the bolt heads on it some how clamps down to force a tapered clutch plate tight against a clutch face which then drives the drum. I doubt it operates like an automobile clutch as there does not seem to be any leaver or or apparatus to move a clutch plate side ways. You will notice a small leaver (with a knob on the end) just on top of the frame near the clutch. This leaver seems to operate a clamping mechanism which I think is the clutch. it appears to me that the clutch reacquires a clamping motion to operate.
The brake is pretty obvious in the same picture. :hammer (Edit) Don't know where my head was this morning, this is the eccentric for the engine valve. :hammer The brake is mounted on the drive shaft between the crank disk and the first bearing. It locks up the drive shaft and depends on the spur gear to lock the bull gear.
That is one cute little winch (pun intended).
PS. It appears in the first b&w picture the boat had a larger winch with its own boiler mounted behind it.
Bill
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I just love those paddlewheel frames Richard - How soon can you knock up a set of four for me and post them to England? :)
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Well I should have stayed in bed this morning. upon closer inspection of the picture I see there is not a boiler on deck behind the winch as I said. Maybe I should just put the other foot in my mouth while I at it. :ohno :oops :sorry
Bill
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I think Adelaide would have had a whinch with round or square boxes...as far as I'm aware they're pretty much a mainstay on the boats for when they got stuck...that or the paddle shaft. I suppose it depends on how much trouble you were in. Being in the logging industry I also think the whinch may have played a part in that.
Still a chance she doesn't have one though with rounds...checking through the Adelaide book by Helen Coulson. Little round photos were taken though when they were round wheels so that doesn't really help us in this situation.
Adelaide's classic colours- Creme and Chocolate Brown when she had round boxes.
Not Echuca Maroon and Creme, Green and White is Square Boxes.
There's no elegance about Adelaide with square boxes- I think that's her main appeal. The fact that although she was a workboat the shape of her hull and wheel boxes just seem to flow together so elegantly...almost as if she doesn't belong. Her cabins are also described as high class and elegant. (Comparible to Hero today perhaps)
The sunken cabin and round wheels are going to be a challenge for Richard, Excellsior...the plans he has are for the square box and raised cabin, but I'm pretty sure it was the challenge of converting the plans (as there doesn't seem to be much available in regards to round boxes) that appeals.
If I was any good at modelling I'd give it a go...
Hey Richard...how much would you charge for an Adelaide????
She's looking really good so far. The wheels are great, the hull looks perfect.
Oh Just noticed the colour comment- wondered what towing photos had to do with whinch...now I know. Yes that is the colour scheme, I have to scan my photo for you, it's in a frame on my bedside table, it's a very light creme, it makes the brown trim stand out. Towing...lots of fun! If you're interested in making an outrigger barge for your Adelaide I have lots of photos of that too Richard.
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Thanks for some really interesting replies and I'll do my best to cover them. Love those old working black and white pics.
I don't have an actual date in mind to base my Adelaide on. I do like the round box, sunken cabin look but the 'Murrabit' is a tantalizing thought. My wife and best mate Patsy has found a copy of the book thru Amazon at a second hand book store in NSW and has order it. It will be filed away as a future building project - the idea of a fantasy paddle boat does appeal.
For those Australians reading this they will know what I mean when I say it is all about 'the vibe' of the Adelaide and that is what I'm trying to capture rather than an actual date. Round boxes, sunken cabin, cream and brown trim with a dirty big winch is where I'm heading at the moment. I'm planning to make the superstructure lift off for access so making both a square box and round version is all ways an option. The rear cabin will also lift off for radio access so sunken or full depth is an option here too but there would issues with different shapes involved not just height.
Where can I get a copy of the "River Boats Remembered " video?? This is a lazy question before I go looking.
No trouble to knock you out some paddle wheels Eddie. If you have a drawing with dimensions it should be no worries. Cost would be plywood and postage. Just let me know.
Sure I could make you an Adelaide Sean :) As I build I'm saving all the CNC files so a second one would be much easier and quicker. As a separate project I'm also building 101" B-25 Mitchell bomber - still haven't got these things out of my system! This is my third but this time it will be fully moulded and the techniques I'm using for it would work brilliantly for another Adelaide. It involves CNC cutting a plug from foam, texturing it with .25mm plastic sheets with rivet or nail detail and then making an epoxy female mould. This would have produced a far more detailed hull so there will have to be a second Adelaide to satisfy me.
Richard
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Where can I get a copy of the "River Boats Remembered " video?? This is a lazy question before I go looking.
No trouble to knock you out some paddle wheels Eddie. If you have a drawing with dimensions it should be no worries. Cost would be plywood and postage. Just let me know.
Sure I could make you an Adelaide Sean :)
Richard
You're a champ Richard! ha ha
River Boats remembered is still only on VHS it's from the National Film and Sound archives.
I have a copy...which I transferred to DVD for use in my room (as my family gets a little touchy when there are too many paddlers in their lives and VHS players!)
You can buy the video from Sharps Movie House and Penny Arcade! I know that one for sure.
However try maybe a local library- I know a local library had it in their collection, and in the end my old primary school is where I got mine from.
Definately good Adelaide footage on it though thats for sure.
I'll see if I can do anything with the adelaide bits for you
Sean
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Bit of an update while I wait for bearings and bits to arrive.
Deck planking is coming along. It is a challenge not to get the belt sander out and smooth it some but I'm trying to recreate the rustic look of a working boat so I must resist the urge. My plan is to use the model railway technique of painting the raw pine with watered down white and then apply a dilute wash of indian ink. Small trails have shown this gives the weathered timber look very nicely.
I've also started on the curved boxes which really make it start looking the part. These will be removable for servicing the wheels and shouldn't cause too much trouble.
I've also started making the wheels. Once assembled the 2mm ply side frames and paddle boards have become a very strong structure which should be well up to the task at hand. Also starting adding some 'U' bolt and nut details to the wheel. This will be a lot of work but should lift the final look of the model heaps.
Think I've worked out how to lift the wheel house off the 15 posts supporting the second deck to allow access to the motors and cold water smoker. Hope to get some pics of this over the next few weeks.
I will try and get all these pics together in an album to tidy things up this week.
Richard
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Hey Bundy.... I hope the moderators will forgive me just this once again..... :angel for an OFF TOPIC comment..... but is that not an OZ Ford TYPHOON V8 super UTE just hanging around outside of your garage :?:... should this be the case we OZ people should all :respect2 that Loundsie does a bit better in the next race :great.....keep the snaps of your PS Adelaide 2007 build coming,.......Derek
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That model is looking great, can't wait to see it completed :D
I noticed before there was some discussion of winches and how they work...this may be irrelevant to this topic but here's a couple of pics of Tattershall Castle's anchor winch/windlass, all the controls can be seen so it's possible to see how the 'clutch' is disengaged and the anchor locked when using it for handling mooring ropes...
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I'm pretty sure I posted a pic of the whinch on Industry too Richard if you're still interested.
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Hi PD's... & Mick says
'here's a couple of pics of Tattershall Castle's anchor winch/windlass'
Hullo Mick...interesting snaps....is tha a spare anchor to the lower left or rear of the winch [TCwinch_rightside?]... if so interesting casting insignia... could this have seen military/naval use in a previous life? - Derek
Oh BTW... I am sure the Dutchies have put the TCwinch_leftside handle facing inboard just for safety :hehe
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Hi All
Bit of a slow week building the Adelaide still waiting on parts to arrive ( still waiting for the Zulu plan - Don sent a second one 2 weeks ago and the first one nearly 6 weeks ago yet the smoker posted at the same time arrived Feb 5 !) and have been building a CNC foam cutter to build hulls amongst other projects.
The hold ups should give time to get back to the winch anyway.
I've hit a bit of a snag with the lowered rear cabin. Modern photos I think show the roof following the deck line sloping forward. Paintings of the original seem to show a flat roof on the lowered cabin. I'm leaning towards the sloping roof line for looks but is one more 'right' than the other?
Another problem I have is with the top deck surface. The Float-A-Boat plan shows it covered with Malthoid on timber. What colour would this have been?
The deck colour is sort of right. I could be happy enough with it but a lighter tone would have been better. I might still try giving it a very light white wash after the deck nails are all in and before a sealing coat goes on.
Is the trim colour somewhere near it Sean?
Richard
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....is tha a spare anchor to the lower left or rear of the winch [TCwinch_rightside?]... if so interesting casting insignia... could this have seen military/naval use in a previous life?....
... I am sure the Dutchies have put the TCwinch_leftside handle facing inboard just for safety :hehe
I don't know why the anchor has a swastika on it, the other side says "69W - W L Byers & co ltd, Sunderland"
I think it was a spare anchor as it's always been there, even though there was another similar one on the stbd side of the hull with the chain run through the hawse pipe over the winch and into a hole in the deck (all gone since the latest 'refit' :evil: )
Yes they have put the handle on backwards, can only guess it got in the way!
As a matter of interest (and to steer beck onto topic), I was wondering what scale the Adelaide is, it looks quite large in the pictures...
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That's a darn good looking model Richard.
The brown trim...hmmm
Take a look at the below attached photo...yes I finally scanned it in. Adelaide with creme and Chocolate brown trim.
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Thanks for the pic Sean. That really is brown isn't it?
The colour I've ended up using is like a blend of all the various colours the Adelaide has been over the years not representing any one colour scheme in particular. I will have to wait and see if the final result captures the flavour or not.
I got the rear cabin pretty much finished tonight. It sure is hard working from photos and not a well drawn plan but it is close enough. Hope the bits that aren't right don't stand out too much! Boy the next one will be good! Just looking the attached pic again and it is really going to need some 'roughing up' to make it look like a working boat.
Moving onto the engine room next to get the last posts in to support the upper deck and wheelhouse. Shafts for the paddle wheels should be here early next week.
Richard
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I think the colour looks good and so does the rear cabin.
You're really doing a good job Richard.
Very envious. ahahahha
You're going to have one fine looking model when she's finished.
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.....As a matter of interest.....I was wondering what scale the Adelaide is, it looks quite large in the pictures...
Ah, oversight on my part, I see from the start of this topic it is in fact 1/16th scale :shock: wow, it'll look stunning!!!
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I see from my notes about Adelaide for my new book that there was a proposal at one time to convert her to a diesel sternwheeler.
That sounds like an interesting model project
Â
Alistair
----- Original Message -----
From: mjt60a (construction@paddleducks.co.uk)
To: construction@paddleducks.co.uk (construction@paddleducks.co.uk)
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: PS Adelaide...2007 New Construction - [Richard Bundy]
[quote="mjt60a].....As a matter of interest.....I was wondering what scale the Adelaide is, it looks quite large in the pictures...
Ah, oversight on my part, I see from the start of this topic it is in fact 1/16th scale (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) wow, it'll look stunning!!!
Posted by Mick.
(.....gonna need a bigger boat.....)
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[/quote]
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Yes you're right,
But it's not really an interesting model.
I'm not sure about the sternwheel (I remember prop) but diesel is right.
she was meant to become a powered barge...with all deck housing removed.
:shock:
Just imagine if that would have happened.
Luckily Echuca bought her back!
*few*
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Richard- I was at the Port this morning and found the Adelaide's old steam winch.
Now being quite snap happy I took a few photos from multiple angles for you.
I will post them soon when I download the photos onto my computer today or tomorrow and then resize some for on here.
Hopefully they will be of some use.
Sean
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Your a legend Sean!! That would would be brilliant!!!
Building is coming along and will try and get some pics posted over the weekend. Wheelhouse is started and one paddle is spinning.
Still heaps to do yet tho.
Thanks Sean
Richard
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Quick update - Adelaide moved under her own power today all be it with the power of only one paddle and wow did she move! Heaps of power but gentle at the same time.
No worries about the paddle wheels being made from 2mm ply or the need for bigger motors. 5/16th brass shafts are probably an overkill and 2 screws attaching the wheel to a soldered brass plate soldered to the shaft appears heaps strong enough even for a 1.5m, 20kg displacement girl.
Top deck is removable for motor and smoker care but daily access to batteries will be via the removable rear cabin. Work continues on the wheel house, second wheel and the boxes soon. Thinking of making the rudder for show only since with individual paddle control will give all the steering control needed.
Hope to have it somewhat finished to take down to Brisbane in May for the Logan City Marine Modellers open day.
Richard
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Goodness Bundy, my solar powered ABACASS :thinking was pretty close with your confirmed displacement of 20Kg
3) My guess of your PS Adelaide is more from your estimated 15 Kg to the 19>20.5 Kg displacement range
Mind you, it was only an estimation through my version of MathCAD............. :angel - Derek
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Hi All
Another quick update - seems all I have time for lately.
All the electronics are now in and working beautifully. Sound and smoke really are worth the cost and effort for the extra dimensions they bring I feel.
Both wheels are in and working but not yet detailed. Even at this early stage I am happy I have a very practical , working boat. Early tests in wind and no ballast show a very stable boat with heaps of power.
Any ideas on how to make a wheel for the wheel house? It will have to be about 95mm dia and will be a pretty major focal point. I could cut it out on the CNC and into it with the dremel to smooth it out but is there a better way to do it?
Have you posted those Adelaide winch pictures Sean and I have just missed them?
I've also been busy getting this CNC foam cutter working which has been a learning curve. The Zulu should be the first boat built on it in the next few months.
Richard
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Hi Michael,
I have just come across your posting from February 12, quite a good PS Adelaide Engine Room photo also.
I had a dodgy non-digital camera with me for Steamfest last October, and the Engine Room shots didn't turn out too well, so if you could post some of yours that we be good.
Regards,
Leith Hall
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Does anyone know what happened with this model... Would love to know, was looking pretty good
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Hello Again
After a time away from this build while I pursued a number of aviation projects I now find myself drawn back here. Model flying club politics simply aren't fun.
While building these flying projects I've had to learn a number of new skills - new for me anyway. Things like 3d CAD design, 4 axis CNC cutting and vacuum bagged composite moulding that at the time were an enormous learning curve but now have become my main modelling tools. I'm really excited to see how these new tools can be applied to my paddle boat builds.
The Adelaide has stored well and all has still worked after a good clean up. My expectations of a scale model and I hope my skills to achieve them have both moved on since I last worked on this model. The build is so advance though that I feel I must finish it the best I can from where it is currently and then move onto a more challenging project.
I've also developed an interest in live steam. I am reading everything I can about it and love the learning process. I'm amazed by the complexities of something that I had thought was a straight forward process.
For some reason I'm also still drawn to the Zulu. I would love the challenge of building the Zulu using CNC cutting and moulding techniques and although a very ambitious plan to maybe power it with live steam. This is in the future however and the Adelaide must be finished first.
I'll post some progress pics as I get going again.
Richard
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Great to hear you've got back to the build Richard, I'm looking forward to seeing her completed.
It will also be interesting to see how the new techniques you've learned translate into model boating with the following builds....
Regards
Eddy
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Hey ....welcome back bundyrap ......... the PD people :gathering are just a little larger in number but all remains the same
I know our newer & older members will enjoy your build......Derek :beer
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Hi Guys
Thanks for the greetings and it is good to be back.
My first job in getting this build underway again was to pull off the rear outrigger decks ( is that the right term??). I found that I had made the original wheel boxes too big when translating the plan's square boxes to the round version so I guess the lesson is to get all your documentation sorted before you start and then measure twice and cut once.
Still the worst part was thinking about. Once I had torn off the old decking, sorted out the right lines and put a few new decking planks in it is nearly done.
I cut new paddle box walls on the CNC cutter which made short work of all those square holes. I'm about to make a new improved CNC cutter taking advantage of the new linear bearings and ballscrews coming out of China now and at very reasonable prices. I'll post some pics of that if anyone is interested.
So I've nearly finished planking the top paddle boxes tonight and hope to get the rear decking all back on tomorrow. I'm looking forward to getting into the more fiddle stuff like the stairs up the back of the boxes, rudder detail etc.
Richard
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Just while I think of it...
I'm not happy with the painted colour of the decking as it is and I have to put new decking now as well. Is there a painting technique that I could apply to the whole deck both new and old to give that weathered old timber look?
I have used simple pine for the decking so far and plan to use it for the new decking fill in just for consistency. It has worked really well to date but the next build I will venture into the more exotic timbers.
Thanks
Richard
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Hi Richard,
"I cut new paddle box walls on the CNC cutter which made short work of all those square holes. I'm about to make a new improved CNC cutter taking advantage of the new linear bearings and ballscrews coming out of China now and at very reasonable prices. I'll post some pics of that if anyone is interested."
Yes please I would love to see some pics, what control system are you using?
Regards,
Gerald
Retired CNC Technician.
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Good Morning
Just a quick catchup on the CNC questions people have asked.
My current machine is a "Joe's 2006" all the building details of which can be found at http://cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=346
Be warned tho it is 100s of pages long and very,very addictive! I've added a 4th axis to the basic design in the form of a vertical rotary table and 4 jaw chuck. I'm finding new uses for this all the time but so far the most impressive thing as been the ability to cut people in any scale and any pose and then mould them. The attached pics show a little of this process.
My machine is about 2 years old now and I'm ready for an update. This new one will be an own design making use of the now affordable linear bearings, ballscrews and spindle drives out of China. Details of this new one are still evolving but I'll post the odd pick as it goes along.
The software to get these machines to cut useful boat bits is just as important as the hardware. I use a 3d drawing software called Rhino which is available as a free download from Rhiono3d.com with heaps of tutorial help included, SheetCam and MadCam to calculate the toolpaths and I use Artsoft's Mach3 to actually drive the stepper motors.
Hope this helps.
Richard
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Just while I think of it...
I'm not happy with the painted colour of the decking as it is and I have to put new decking now as well. Is there a painting technique that I could apply to the whole deck both new and old to give that weathered old timber look?
I have used simple pine for the decking so far and plan to use it for the new decking fill in just for consistency. It has worked really well to date but the next build I will venture into the more exotic timbers.
Thanks
Richard
G'day Bundyrap.My method of making weathered teak decking look like weathered teak is to use.....teak. Actually, I use the teak drawer front hot glue on veneer from the builders' supply, wash is with a thin white, and then wash it with thinned black until it lookes about right. Then varnish clear to protect. easy. ADAGIO