Paddleducks
Large Paddler Builds => General discussion (Large) => Topic started by: paddlesteamerman1 on November 08, 2006, 11:08:51 AM
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I have finally gotten around to building my very own and very real paddle boat for the river Murray. She has been christened the PV Sarah-Jane after my very supportive girlfriend. Still only in the very early stages of construction, really it is still on the drawing board. I have been looking at hulls to buy from a shop, but was considering making my own hull. I am not sure which would be better. But am definantely going to have a hull floating by the end of the year. Also I have decided on the paddlewheels (Mick's Spiderweb Wheels) and it will be powerede by a small marine diesel. The PV Sarah-Jane will be between 4 and 8 metres long. I will be asking a few questions throughout this project.
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Well now I have another to race against when both boats are complete! Feel free to ask questions I know where I stand on this topic and I'll help you to get through some of the tedious issues that I went through to get to where I am now! The other members of this site also gave me a stack of advice so I'm sure they will be able and willing to help out!
Do you already have your marine diesel engine? Sidewheel or sternwheel? Belt drive? Independent drive? What are your plans for wheel power?
Sean
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The Sarah-Jane is going to a sidewheeler, and will be powered by a marine diesel engine, that will be geared to a ration of 1:2 to the drive shaft. I will be asking many a question during this time.. THanks
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With the engine, would anyone consider using a system of cogs to connect the engine output to drive shaft? I have been thinking of the balancing of the boat, and if I want the boat to look authentic I need the paddlewheels slightly aft of the centre of the boat I should be having the engine in the forward and connect it with a driving cog (larger) and a smaller idling cog and then a cog of the same size connected to the drive shaft, enabling the engine to be running forwards and not powering the paddles in reverse, Like on the PS Pevensey!! Any suggestions on anything with construction will be welcomed!!!
Thanks everyone!!
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Just another question! I found a decent looking hull, from a former sailing vessel that is 3.5m long. I was wondering whether an old sailing hull would present any more problems than an old rowing boat or some other type of hull?
I heard that maybe the keel could be a problem from an old sailing hull!! Hopefully not, because it looks perfect.
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The easiest thing would be using a chain drive, less noise and less stress!
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The boat was initially meant to become a pedal powered vessel, but I soon talked myself out of it, and that shot the idea of pedal power. So the chain drive was very much the first way of powering the boat.
It would be a simple set up and the motor would just turn the chain attached to the drive shaft? Am I right or wrong? I thought after the post that cogs would become more of a hindrence than a help. Thanks for the tip though. I think that the Sarah-Jane is going to become a chain driven vessel. Thanks
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Also I have been looking through the PD's site for ideas on how to have the paddles the right size but to get them in enough water to power the boat. I saw Sean's idea on lowering the sponson decks about half to a quarter of the way down to the water. I hope you dont mind me taking your idea on board (no PUN intended either)
And can anyone point out any problems I could encounter with using an old sailing hull? Someone pointed out that it wouldn't be stable enough. Hopefully someone can enlighten me on this subject.
Feel free to put your ideas or suggestions on here PD's
Thanks
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I'd worry about the Keel in regards to sailing problems. You know the Murray can be a nice squeeze for flat bottomed boats!
The idea actually comes from the Europen paddlers such as Liberty Belle...so don't feel you're stealing it off me!
I don't think we're lowering mine any more we'll just build bigger wheels. Although we have spoken about putting the shaft through the sides of the hul and lowering the wheel as such keeping sponsons same height as the side of the boat but lowering the wheel so it's closer to the water, this will probably work better for Grebe as her design would have issues with lower sponsons!
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I am not 100% sure :hmmm on what to do with the paddle wheels yet, but Dad pointed out a few 'annoyances' :rant with having the shaft go through the hull so the paddles could come out at the same level as the lowered sponson decks. I will just have to do a little more :thinking one this one, and I dont want my paddle wheels to be to large because that would make them too heavy and I feared that maybe it would put the entire boat out of proportion. They wouldnt need to be a lot bigger though would they? A few centimetres at the most (hopefully) :!:
I am now looking at different hulls, and not sailing ones either :!:
With the Grebe are you placing your paddles further aft or forward or in the dead centre of the boat :?: I was looking at a book and most paddlers seemed to have their paddles a tad further aft, but with a tiny boat that could put the boat out of wack couldn't it :?:
Also what am material is best to build the sponson decks out of :?: I was thinking just marine ply with a few coats of paint to look a bit more authentic.
:news
And I have decided :clap2 on a colour scheme for the Sarah-Jane is going to be very similar to the and Pevensey. I will be using the white-ish colour from the Pevensey for the main part of the boat and then using maroon for the borders and edges. Hopefully it will look great. I also thought of using either the :boom PS Industry or the PS Oscar W but the Pev prevailed :weight .
:beer
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I just a quick look at Duck Flat Wooden Boats and Gnat Riverboats (both of which are in SA :hmph ) and I had a look at their hulls, especially Duck Flat Wooden Boats look awesome :no1 and I am now considering to go there and get a hull. Only problem is :crash that they are very expensive. Also are Gnat Riverboats. But if anyone wants to have a look, just google the names above.
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I have looked through the site, and I really want an authentic sounding steam whistle, but my boat wont be steam powered. How do I do this?
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air compressor with a tank does the trick most the time, room depending
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Thanks Michael! About how big are the compressors and tanks? I have limited room aboard this little vessel! Thanks for the idea though!!
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Reading through the PD's site :computer I found quite a few intersting points, that have made me consider :boom the diesel and see if I could go straight to :respect steam. I am looking online at approximate engine prices and have been :gather with a few people. I will post a couple of pictures to :crash if the computer works!!
:beer
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Here is a picture of one of the hulls I was looking at, I cant work out how to put more than one picture on a post so I will have a few posts and pictures
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Here is another view, but in the first one can anyone see, in between the seating there is a 'thing' and someone pointed out that it folds down underneath and could cause some problems. I would be grateful if anyone could help me on this issue!!
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And the other one, but the price is quite a bit!!
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....in between the seating there is a 'thing' and someone pointed out that it folds down underneath....
That'd be the 'Centreboard' (I think!) and is probably supposed to prevent the boat being blown sidewards across the water when under sail, similar to the large eliptical structures to be seen on the sides of a Thames Barge????......
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Thanks for the information Mick :respect2 It helps a lot!!
Do you know if they fold down underneath the boat or not?? I've been :thinking and that could cause a few problems :darn in the Murray!! Thanks
:beer
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I have just been :gather to a few people and one of them brought up the idea of using a 'punt' for a hull. Nice and stable. But I want my boat to look authentic I think a punt would ruin that.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions or comments about the punt? They would be greatly appreciated!!
Here is a picture of it!!
:beer
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The first boat is designed as a sailer. The center board is dropped down to extend the keel when it is heeled over on a hard tack. Pull up the center board and it may tip over or yall or waller. I don't think this hull would be best as it is not designed for flat sailing. If you will note the chines of the boat will form a secondary V hull whne the boat it heeled whenon a good breeze. Looks like a really fun sailer. I had a Lido 14. When in a very stiff wind on a run with the jib on one side adn the main on the opposite I could pullup the center board move my crew on the bow adn my self midship and we would fly. Actually planing on the last foot and half of the hull like a hydroplane.
The punt is you best bet although probasbly not the most accurate for a paddler. However one of my books there is a picture fo a flat nosed sternwheeler.
Bill
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The box-shaped structure fitted on the centreline is known as the "centreboard trunk" which holds the "centreboard".
The Centreboard when in the raised position is housed entirely within its housing "Trunk" and when required it is lowered either by a hinged handle or by use of a simple winch mechanism (Centreplate winch). In other words it should not normally fold sideways (transversely) , but rather it should "hinge" up vertically into the trunk.
These are usually found on "pulling dinghies" (to the uninitiated - "rowing boats") which enables such boats to become "sailing dinghies". This arrangement was seen on the RNSA (Royal Navy Sailing Association) 14ft Pulling/Sailing Dinghy (of wood construction) and the latterly on the Royal Navy's 14ft Bosun dinghy (GRP), and the RN Montague-rigged Whaler.
This information was told to me during the Boat Building (wooden) period of my Shipwright Apprenticeship.
By the way, I did serve my Shipwright Apprenticeship at the former Royal Dockyard at Chatham (HM Dockyard, Chatham), which has since closure had the older portion reopened as a World Heritage Dockyard. Interestingly there still exist two of the old preserved wooden warships built in this dockyard; these are HMS Victory (launched May 1765, preserved in dry dock at Portsmouth Dockyard, England, UK) and HMS Unicorn (launched 1824, preserved afloat at Dundee, Scotland, UK).
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I've looked at doing a punt before! And I have plans for an 'aligator crawling paddler' that uses the punt hull!
When I was considering building one myself from scratch it was those kinds of hulls I was looking it. As such I have plans for houseboats and bicycle driven sternwheelers that all use similar hulls. One even has a homemade bilge pump section!
For a boat the size you want authenticity shouldn't be an issue really...because then you just end up with something like the Minimus...and I'll leave my Minimus thoughts off this forum!
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The min....,
It's hard to belive that little boat is 20ft,it's a great idea and credit must be given for it performs all the tasks required of it.
The owner wanted it trailable as he goes everywhere!
It had to be small enough to be handled by one person and to look like a small scale murry paddler. (almost like the emmylou)
but the scale (size of the paddle wheels to the structure)and being confined I don't like.
you must consider your sharing the waters with much larger boats,40 ft+ if something goes wrong you want no restrictions in getting out!
The winter hertiage fest last year It was nearly run over a few battle scares was the only out come.
Having an enclosed cab in a confined space with a boiler has me worried ,if steam escapes where does it go or you!
It also runs a strath vertical boiler which doesn't help the centre of gravity and the need for a 5 hp engine in that size is questionable.
I feel 20ft is a good sized hull (the gemma was origanly this size)and the space could be used better if designed on our own old time fishing fleet.(ranger) ect
remember paddlers are supposed to be uncomplicated,reliable vessels.
But I guess it comes down to each individual's needs which isn't such a bad thing, thats what has given us such diversity in ideas. :wink:
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1. DINGY COMPLETE : 6224925
MIRROR DINGY COMPLETE Wooden hull with mast, sails and rigging, Includes galvanised trailer and cover, $200 (03)98362705 Balwyn
STATE: VIC FIRST PUBLISHED: 9 Nov 2006
SOURCE: Private Classifieds (Melbourne Trading Post)
2.Rebuilt, reg : E17278773-16S
Heron Rebuilt, reg 9449, wooden hull, wooden mast, orig Rolly Tasker yellow sails, trailer reg, crew mutinous, fading in shed, end era, Taworri (the Evening Breeze) $750 MAYLANDS 08-8362 4689
STATE: SA FIRST PUBLISHED: 7 Nov 2006
SOURCE: Private Classifieds (Weekly Trading Post (Adelaide))
3.Sailing dinghy with : G17114029-16S
Sailing dinghy with trailer, does need some work, $575 ENCOUNTER BAY 08-8552 1746
STATE: SA FIRST PUBLISHED: 2 Nov 2006
SOURCE: Private Classifieds (Rural Trading Post (South Australia))
4.Plywood sailboat 17ft, : Y17253008-16S
Plywood sailboat 17ft, boat without trailer. Some rig, main and jib mast and boom. Needs a little work. Will deliver to Northern Beaches area $500 DEE WHY 02-9210 1860 or 0421-615621 andrew.feberwee@liftcapital.com.au
STATE: NSW FIRST PUBLISHED: 2 Nov 2006
SOURCE: Private Classifieds (Weekly Trading Post (Sydney))
More Detail...
17ft plywood boat without trailer. Some rig, main and jib mast and boom. Needs a little work. Will deliver to Northern Beaches area.
Here's some vessel's I found on the trading post, hope they help
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Thank You to Bill and Brian :gift for giving me the info, I have decided against the sailing hull, as I though as well as it becoming a little unstable without the centreboard folded down, but it wouldn't be suited to a paddler! Thanks for all your info though :no1 !! And the punt is probably the best bet as well, and as Sean said with a boat this size it doesn't need to the most accurate in the world, and I would end up with a Minimus! :hmph :crash :hehe :music And I dont really like it either, and I dont see the Emmylou in it :shhh (I cant believe that it is 20ft either!)
What is an "Aligator Crawling Paddler":?: It sounds interesting!! And I am not going to be all inclosed in the boat, because that is just plain stupid, and I would need a quick exit if something were to go wrong, because I have decided that Sarah-Jane will be steam powered!
What Hp engine would you put in a boat that is 20' and under? I found a great site, http://users.olis.net.au/strathsteam , and that is in Goolwa SA. They make smaller steam engines (Sean if you are interested) that run off small boilers but can provide electricty for one house or a full hot water system. They are very economical to run as well.
I want the Sarah-Jane to be a VERY :angel uncomplicated and reliable sidewheeler, that will last for a long(ish) time. I am thinking to just have a wind shield at the front and a roof extending over the rest of the boat. (Sorry Sean, I know it sounds a lot like the Grebe but there is not a lot you can do with a small hull :music ) and a Punt Hull would be very stable, and I think that paddle wheels would easily fit in with the flat sides! It might be a good idea for my first boat to start with a 'square' boat! Thanks Everyone for you information on the topic as well. :clap2
:beer
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Thanks Michael :bravo I will be looking into them!! Thanks once again. I will have a look and see what there is!! Brilliant!!
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Michael, what site or paper was it specifically. I used the :computer www.tradingpost.com.au and I registered and I cant use it!!! I cant find any boats and the numbers you gave me didnt work! :crash
Also can someone tell me what Alligator Crawling Paddlers are? And what is crawling? And also what Hp Steam engine would you recommend putting in a 20ft and under boat? Or can that not really be considered until you know the weight of the boat!!
Cheers
:beer
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Here is a few pictures and plans of the Storer River Boat, that Roderick suggested that I look closely :thinking at.
It looks so good :sunglasses , flat bottom, 7m long and 2m wide. It would be perfection at its best :yeah .
I have emailed Duck Flat Wooden Boats on pricing, keeping my fingers crossed that it is not to high :angel !!
A built boat of the same type is the POP AND I and it is up for sale. Roderick suggested that because we own a property in Morgan we can use the boat, maybe with the outboard for a while, while I am building the rest of the superstructer and the paddle wheels, and then finally get around to completing a steam engine and boiler. These boats would be able to support the extra weight that comes with a paddler :clap :clap2.
And as I've heard that paddles should be 1/3 width of the hull, the paddles for a Storer River Boat would become 65cm wide. The other hulls above on the page wouldnt :hmph support the extra weight and would prove unstable in a sense.
There is also a 35ft version of the Riverboat, but that is a little bit to long, but included a plan of it anyway!!
This is what the website has to say about it::
TC35 - Light Efficient Riverboat for 15hp Outboard Motor
Length - 11.7m (35ft)
Beam - 2.13m (7ft)
Displacement - approx 1800kg (1.8 tons)
(includes crew and tankage half full)
Power - 10 to 15 hp High Thrust Outboard for cruising speed of 7 to 8 knots
Simple to Build - Prefabrication Method - Most of the major parts can be finished before the boat is assembles.
Almost silent
Cheap liveaboard
Drawings for all bulkheads and panels to allow prefabrication of parts. Position of major interior items is given on bulkheads for fast assembly of interior.
But the colour picture is of the 23ft version!
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See how the sides of the Storer Boat rise about 1/3 of the way up from the stern? Is it possible to build paddles and wheel housing on the side of that with sponson decks? And would the sponson decks need to be lowered to accommodate for the rise in the wall??
And help is greatly appreciated!!
:beer
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I was looking on Ebay Anth, And I found a 1920's Portland Harbour Masters Row Boat on the site, it says that it has no rot in the hull, but needs restoration. I will post a few pictures on here so people can have a look and see if it is possible!!
Thanks for the Ebay hint!!!!!
"Starting bid AU $500.00
price: AU $800.00
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End time: 17-Nov-06 21:50:52 AEDST (1 day 14 hours)
Postage costs: Pickup only - see item description for details
Posts to: Will arrange for local pickup only (no postage).
Item location: North Goulburn, Victoria, Australia
History: 0 bids
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Starting time: 10-Nov-06 21:50:52 AEDST
Starting bid: AU $500.00
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Item Specifics
Condition: Used
This boat is a 1920 Portland Harbour Master RowBoat, very solid and beautifully made. But needs restoration, so would suit an enthusiast that would like to restore this beauty to her original glory.
There have been seats made for her, seats six and also a 1969 outboard is included with petrol tank. There is no rot the boat has been taken out of storage to be photographed.
Dimensions are: Length: 14Ft Width (widest point) : 5.7ft Depth:2.6Ft
If you would like more photos let me know and if you have any other questions just ask away.!!!
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I wouldn't recomend it if there was...... :D I feel it's perfect for the price and the size it has a good beam traditonal clinker planking,just need's some sanding and painting.......... and some paddle wheels.
your not really going to find to many of these boats around that don't require some work.if i was you just bite the bullet
cheers anthony
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Today, on the 16th of November 2006 the PS Sarah-Jane has been born!!
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! :party :party :trophy :terrific :yeah :bravo :clap2 :clap :hehe
I JUST GOT MY HULL FOR THE PS SARAH-JANE
How awesome is it!!!!!
This 14' long hull was built in 1920 (historical aspect) and only cost me $800!!
I am so happy and excited now!!!
It was my X-mas :gift from my entire family, but I know I have a lot of work ahead of me!!!
I think it looks brilliant, with the very visible planking and the wood looks good. I will just have to wait and see how it is when I pick it up, not sure when that is though...
A massive THANKS to ANTH for pointing this one out to me!! I wouldnt even have it if it weren't for you!! Thanks Anth
Now, starts the real thing, and watch out for bombardment :boom with questions.
And I even have my very own workshop/shed to put her in and work on her, as we now have a few spare on the farm after a loss of a tenant that was living here!!! WHOOOOOOOOO!!! :beer
Thanks Everyone!!!!
:beer
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Hey James very jealous!!! She is a very smart looking boat and for its age, and condition its in you couldn't get much better. Now you just have to do a great job on her, no short cuts!!
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Dont worry Michael, there will be NO shortcuts done on her!! I am going to try and make her look the best I can possible do!!
Just one problem already, I need to get her from North Goulbourn (Victoria) to Ararat. I am working on that now though.
My first job will to be to float her in a shallow dam (not by choice, the drought supplied us with a very shallow dam) and see if there are any leaks, although the seller said there wasnt. Then it will be, if there are leaks to fix them, if not then to strip the paint away, sand it and then start painting and waterproofing the hull.
Is that the right way? I hope so, just watch out for the trillions of questions I will be asking you experienced boat builders...
I thought that for her age, the quality was nothing to complain about, and I think that I could make her look beautiful (hopefully to look as beautiful as her namesake !!!)
I cant wait to start work on her!!
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No prop's james,you will have many ours of fun (sanding :rant ) ha ha
as I said to sean once you get her measured start drawing some plans.
:luck
cheers Anthony
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Yeah, I was thinking that there is a lot of sanding to be done, and knowing my luck I will be the one with the electric sander that has a wish to want to sand my fingers off ( :rant )
As soon as she gets to our farm, and I have proper measurements, the plans will start!!
I was actually thinking along the lines of Sean's Grebe, I think that his boat will look fantastic!!
Hopefully I can get a good plan together!!
Thanks once again for all your help, and every ounce of luck I will need!!
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Well, it turns out that my hull is in Echuca!! The seller lives in Echuca, and says that we can pick it up any time, but Mum and Dad are going try to pick it up this weekend!! Hopefully when I come back from a friends house I might see a boat somewhere?!?
What are my first steps once I have the hull, after measuring it and planning and all the calculations.
I would think that I have to strip all the paint of and sand it all again, so I can start layering it in... ummmmm.. I dont know (apart from paint)
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
:beer
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Yep it will be to strip her...well floating could be good...see what she looks like in the water...see if there are any issues but it sounds like she's in good nick!
Scraping back the paint is very important...it will show what condition the boat is like underneath decieving paint! For instance we discover Grebe has a nice patch on the side of her hull where she have begun to rot or was holed at some stage.
Once that is done you'll need to fill any gaps in the wood etc. I don't know about clinkers and restoration too much...look out for rot and get rid of it. I believe replacing planks will be easier for you compared to my boat which is not clinker and as such just large panels of wood but I don't know exactly.
Once all is stripped back and filled and fixed and repaired you can move on to the next step!
Hooray for your new 'old' boat. She looks swell (ooo a boat joke!)! Good luck with restoration.
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Thanks Sean!!
Maybe Sarah-Jane and Grebe will meet someday,
And I know I have an awful lot of work ahead of me, but Roderick sent me an email with some very good points about displacement etc...
Good Jokes to!!
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Today is the moment of truth!! Mum and Dad are picking my boat up from Echuca, if anyone Kerri Bartsch (I think may be a relation to Alan because she said a river boat captain will be there today to help). We are towing the boat from Echuca to Home on a car trailer (but is only 10' long and the boat is 14' long). It also comes with a 1969 motor, so may be I can connect it to a drive shaft instead of having to buy a new motor or putt putt motor!!
I am so excited, should be great.....
I will see the boat tomorrow, as I had made plans before I bought the boat and cant get out of them!!
I will keep you up to date and will post some photos as soon as I can!!
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It does sound like it could be Alan James.
With a 1920's boat are you still sure you want to restore her and then make her a paddler...I'd want to restore and have her all nice again in historic condition! I know my boat is a kit boat so I have no problems paddlerising mine. Make sure you think about this befoer you go cutting into anything!
The other thing you'll find is that the perfect 'plan' for your boat will come when you actually see the hull and think about it. The Grebe plans possibly won't work, especially as your boat has no (bad boating terminology coming up) front deck doohicky like Grebe has where I am going to attach the cabin etc! Your's might look better with a canopy like Rusty without the cabin...who knows! That's up to you to draw them up and think about it when you get the boat! Believe me something will hit you and you'll want that then!
Just take the time to think and finish her off properly...I wouldn't want to wreck a 1920's boat! Just think you're fixing a boat the age of Alexander Arbuthnot and the C24 Barge!
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Yeah good point Sean, I'd be thinking twice about converting it to a paddler, especailly at that age, I guess all you can do is stick it in the water and dream on!!! Thats why my boat isn't a paddler, not as old but she wouldn't look right with wheels.
I'm suprised I never heard about that hull since I'm in Echuca every day, I know my mate has a identical boat, clinker and used by a fisherman in Renmark, he said I could have it, but she has alot of BIG gaps between its planks, maybe when I know a bit more I might try it
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boats of this age and style are more common than you think.. :shhh .......obviously the condition vary's ...historical signficance is very doubtful.
The fact of it's age means the quality of construction is different you will find copper rivet and roves holding the ribs and planks together no marine ply fibreglass just a classic well made hull of 1920's era
barges and paddle boats and any other vessel of value usually have a history associated with them thats the difference. :)
These rowing boat's are common to most seafaring towns I have turned 3 down in the last 2 mths.....so I can't see how james converting his hull will effect it's value or historical significance in any way. :? .
I have to disagree about the hull suiting paddle wheels to me it could look like a little fishing paddler which once served the river systems and yes I have seen pictures of them as a clinker hull not carvel.
the fact that it is a 1920's hull gives it little more nostalga of what once was.
I am not have a go at anyone so please don't misinterpret this :D .this is just my opion at the end of the day james will make his own desicion :wink:
:luck anthony
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Yes it is James' decision! It's an awesome boat though! What's the bet it does have some paddler history too...wouldn't be bad eh!
Sorry to breifly highjack your topic James...I'll bring it back on topic after this question. Anth you say you've turned down 3 boats, now that you plan on building a smaller boat are you considering picking one up? The Echuca 'Tiny Fleet Parade' could be a big part of future Hertiage Festivals don't you think....
Picture the advertising: Firstly 'Sailpast of the world's largest fleet of paddlers' followed by 'sailpast of the world's smallest paddler fleet!'
One day eh!
Make sure you get us some measurements and photos James, I want to see all aspects of your boat!
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I plan on building a steel hull for the paddle steamer as I am a little concerned about snags and I love working with it and after a discussion with a few owners the discission was made..
The largest boat I looked at was a 16 foot clinker (frankston) not for a paddler but for a home for the steam engine I built ,the other 2 were (Mordialloc and Hastings)smaller again which means smaller length and beam. :(
Maybe I need a think of a name and start my own thread sorry james :wink:
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Well Everyone, the boat is sitting in our shed!!
Wow, does she ever look a treat!! Absolutely beautiful shape, but, BUT, there is so much work to do... And I think that the trailer ride home rattled a few planks that might need replacing now. There are BIG cracks in it Michael, and they will need fixing. I might be introduced to the Wonderful World of Sikaflex!!
With the whole paddler conversion thingy, I am just going to get this hull back to former glory, and then see what is possible then. I, personally think, that it would look like a small fishing paddler, but any advice is good advice. I really would like it to be a small paddler... I will get the hull working and then, I think that you need to see it face to face (well not face to face but you know what I mean!!!!! :) )
I am going to go and take a few photos of it now, and let everyone see what actual condition the SJ is in, because I think that the photos from Ebay were a little old...
I will post a few photos tonight!!!
The Worlds Tiny Fleet, consisting of about 6 vessels, or more!!
Cheers Everyone
:beer
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when you say crack's james do you mean in the planks or the seamline of the plank..?
and if your not familiar with steaming and riveting then perhaps fiberglass MAYBE a better option
looking forward to the pics.
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Congratulations James...kind of flukey that it was Alan's boat don't ya think!
You must be feeling pretty proud right now I know I was when I got Grebe!
Hope she's not in too bad a nick either but she sounds awesome and I can't wait to see the pictures.
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What is the seamline of the plank?? I will get the pics on ASAP tonight!
And I am very very proud and happy with myself at the minute, but due congratulations to Anth for pointing out Ebay!!
And yes it is flukey, but now I am not sure if it is Alan, hents editing my earlier post.. I am not sure now... So I dont think that I will be publically announcing that yet!!
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The overlap in you case because your hull is a clinker or in the case of carvel where the planks would be caulked.
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I have taken the photos, so here they are...
Please Welcome the Paddle Steamer Sarah-Jane!!!
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This is a picture that I am going to use on Paint for a design point of view
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Looking Stern to Bow
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The underside of the Stern
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The SJ at an angle!!
With an accidental Paint mistake!! Oops
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This is the one side of the stern, the Right Side!! The Planking looks just awesome I reckon,
I love it!!
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it's in better condition than the ones I looked at! :wink:
it's been out of the water a while hence the gap's in the plank work and the cracks here and there all normal for a boat of this age.
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It is not in a horrible condition, she said that there is not rot whatsoever and Dad (who knows rot when he sees, feels or some other sense it) thinks that the wood is still very solid, I can stand in it when it was on an angle so it can hold weight!! The wood is just very dry, and is it best to introduce it into water slowly like, lightly spraying it and then hosing it then buckets etc...
This picture is of a crack in the very bottom of the hull, unfortunately I dont know how to fix them yet!!
It is in better condition than I imagined,
I will just have to work very hard to get my project done!!
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I suppose from what you can see it would be very hard to tell, and I dont THINK that you can answer this without seeing it in person, but I will ask anyway,
If the planks are gapping and cracking, should some filler of some sort fix that, because the wood is still as solid as anything, and we purchased a few hundred copper boat nails if needed!!!
So for a boat this age, its condition is average? Not to bad and not to good! That is fine for me!!!!
:beer
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Sikaflex will be no help to you as these gaps are to big.
you will need a fibreglass resin and a fillet powder added to it to fill those gaps much more stable and stronger.
I am talking about fibreglass for boats not fibreglass body filler! :wink:
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She's definately a beautiful boat James...good purchase!
Don't forget though you can add up to 12 images per post can get a bit confusing otherwise, especially for email users who will get each post sent to them as an email.
Restoration will be fun, different challenges to what I've been experiencing so that will be fun for you to work out the problems that arrise from a different kind of boat.
She'll look nice and trim when she's floated again!
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So Sikaflex is out of the question, I will need to use the fiberglass resin for this one,
I am buying an ozzy book of wooden boat restoration, hopefully that will help a little bit too!!
Yes, I am really looking forward to starting work on the Sarah-Jane, and with the posting images, my computer is stupid and tempremental and we are on a very slow internet connection, and I think that the most pics I have put on a single post took me nearly 30min to download and froze the entire computer, sorry about that!! Just technology!!
I will be keeping everyone updated reguarly on the SJ, and I will be starting next weekend, Stripping paint off, but before that I will be building a block set up to raise her to eye level, makes it easier to work with!
If I strip a the paint with a heat gun, will that cause any damage to wood? The wood on the Sarah Jane is very dry already, it hasnt been in water, for what looks like, a very very long time.
And then it is hours upon hours of sanding!!
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Any way the heatgun is out of action, it is to dangerous to use during a long hot dry summer on a wooden boat, and Dad wont allow it because it could cause a fire. I will have to get the good old paint stripper and a chisel out to get the remaining paint of the hull.. It shouldnt take me ages because there is not a massive amount left on the hull.
Also I need to find out what type of wood was used in the original construction. Does anyone know how I can do that, or do I have to sample it??
A few of the ribs need replacing and we need some new ones, I might have to make a trip to Duck Flat Wooden Boats in SA for this one. Unless there are some secrets out there for making prefect wooden braces for the boat..
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Well I started work on SJ today :hammer I started the paint stripping, and it is going to take a verrrrrrrrrrrry long time without a heatgun :rant (too dangerous at the minute).. I bought 3 different types of paint stripping chisel things, quite nifty :sunglasses too (one of them has a curvey side and a point on the end so you can get into those little areas).. and a tin of paint stripper. I have my work area all set out now, with a makeshift bench until I get around to whipping one up from some spare materials at the workshop!!
I stripped the inside end of the stern and a little on the outside...
I also cleared out some of the wood on the inside, and I found that there were two ready made seats for it, oar holders and some more original wood...
Also I had a look at the outboard motor from 1969 and it wont be much use for me, so I am probably going to sell it...
Anyway, more hard work to get on with now :darn just sitting down for a quick :beer
I will post a couple of close up photos later tonight as well to show you some of the wood that I uncovered, looks good!!
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Well, it got a little bit hot outside, so here are some of the photos I took about 10 minutes ago (the mercury peaked around 37C in Ararat today, I mean last week it was snowing now this :/ )
You can see the orange/pink primer under the paint, and in one you can see the wood!!!
Also one of the bits and pieces that came with her!
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I have been scraping paint off for what seems forever :hmph !!
Does anyone know of a quicker way to get rid of that pesky :rant paint without using a heatgun :boom ?
Hopefully there is a smart cookie out there who knows or a good way or two :beer
I will persist with the paint stripper and scraper if I have to :)
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Well today work continued on the SJ as normal, stripping paint!! And I noticed a few more cracks in the hull, below waterline. Also (is it the keel that stick out from the underside in the centre I have forgotten!!??) is cracked where it joins onto the acutal boat right where it starts to curve underneath from the bow.. Any advice is appreciated.
Also I am going to look for the fibreglass resin and fillet powder that Anth suggested that I use for the rather large cracks appearing in the hull...
Soon I am going to turn the hull upside down on a couple of A-frame work tops and inspect the hull closely, I will post a few photos of this.
And does anyone know of a quicker way of stripping paint without a heatgun???
This manual way is going to take forever because the paint is more stubborn than I thought it would've been.
I am off to Portland on Friday (pupil free day at school) to see if I can find out a bit more about the history of the boat (because it was the harbour masters there) and see if they have an accurate colour scheme and if there is anything missing from the boat etc...
I will let everyone know if I find anything interesting..
For now it is still the paint stripping, long way to go!!
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James,
I assume that you have seen Australian Wooden Boatbuilder magazine?
It will have a range of leads, and lots of suggestions. Really you should try to buy several years of back issues. I have a photocopy of an article on Bolger Tennessee riverboats, and the whole issue which wrote up Black Shag (an aluminium paddleboat).
I got my piano cheaply because an owner had painted it nipple pink. I had no trouble removing the paint with chemical stripper, but it wasn't as thick (or as many coats) as your marine paint. It took a lot of blasting with a heat gun to remove the old name stickers from my boat when I was renaming it to Jessie II. I notice that the tradesmen restoring the old doors during my house renovation used heat guns. Perhaps it will be quicker waiting for the weather to to break, making use of the heat gun safe?
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Yes, see I was thinking that I should maybe wait for the weather to cool down (hopefully if it ever does again!!) and then strip it quick smart with a heat gun.. But I think if I took proper precautions I could use one safely now, just have a good couple of buckets of water on site and wet the surrounding ground (or use one of the new fire proof tarps)..
I will have a good look around for the Australian Wooden Boatbuiler mag, and see if I can find a nice early issue..
Thanks Roderick!!
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Just remember to take breaks so that the heatgun doesn't overheat. I found it tended to smell after a period of time and I decided that when it was getting really pungent that it was time to take a break for about 5 minutes to cool her down.
Heatguns work very well, you wait for the paint to bubble and then it lifts right off! Amazing work! I found before I had the gun that grinding my scrapers down to create a nice edge (coz I was using dodgy ones that were old and needed sharpening) made the ends hot and more paint come off...however it cooled very quickly.
I don't think a heat gun would really set fire to a boat...but I might be wrong!
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Oops,
I misremembered the name before.
AAB is affiliated with wooden clubs, but the word isn't in the title.
www.boatbuilder.com.au
Lots of other interesing things emerged when I googles on Australian Wooden Boatbuilder, but all can do their own googling.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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So it is not like the heatgun will set fire to the boat and shed and etc... causing a little bit if mischeif...
I will give it a go, anything has to be quicker than the paint stripper and scraper duo..
The inside of the boat now that I have cleared it all out, acutally looks quite good, I now notice the shape of the boat more, and I think it looks quite nice!!
Just need to get the paint off!!
And Roderick, I checked out the site you found, and I think that the magazine looks really helpful, and full of good ideas, but our newsagents in good old Ararat barely stock the latest trade-a-boat, I think I might have to subscribe!!
Thanks for the googling though!!
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Now getting back to the boat itself...
When I have stripped the paint off, this might be a little far ahead but Dad suggested it anyway, and repaint it, is there special Marine Paint I need to use or just normal ordinary house paint??
And where can I get my hands of fibreglass resin and fillet powder? Just a Bunnings or hardware store stock it??
I would just have a quick look around instead of posting a seemingly simple question, but I live an hour away from the nearest good hardware store!!
:beer
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In answer to whether to use Household paints OR Marine paints !
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Even paints are specially designed for specific purposes!
It should be noted that Domestic Household (exterior quality) Paint would not be designed for constant submersion nor for extended exposure to sunlight and moisture, even if the vessel is stored ashore.
To ensure that the hull of the vessel does not need too much attention in the paint department it is advisable that Marine Paints/Varnishes would be used, and the painting/varnishing is done without trying any shortcuts.
The painting processes are preservatives, priming, ondercoating and top coat, with the number of coats as specified by the manufacturer. The protective finishes (paints / varnishes) would require periodic checking as also specified by the manufacturer,
A well known "Marine, Protective, Yacht & Aerospace" paint manufacturer in the UK & worldwide is "International Paints", whose web-site is - http://www.international-coatings.com/
Hoping that these comments do help in the preservation of hulls and upper-works.
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PS Anti-Fouling would also be required for the hull below the waterline, with Boot-Topping used between light and loaded waterlines, as this region becomes alternatively wet and dry (depending on the loading conditions of the vessel).
.
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Thanks for that Brian...I have been wonderfing the same thing, if a good quality Exterior paint would do the trick...but I doubted it would!
James fibreglass resin and mesh strips are available from Bunnings and vary in price depending on size. Small strips only a few cm's in length to matts of mesh are available along with different sized cans of resin.
I haven't bought any, Grebe's not too bad fibreglass wise.
I will be needing paint soon though
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I bought my marine paint for Jessie II (some of which has appeared on MV Bunyip) at a supply in Elizabeth St, Melbourne (Discount Marine Supplies?).
Go to www.whitepages.com.au and search.
Antifoul will be less of an annual problem for a boat which spends most of the year on a trailer. I expect my antifoul to last much longer.
I suspect that this shop would also be a source of your fibreglass/silicon caulking; Jessie II didn't need any (marine ply construction).
Other sources were bayside boat shops: more remote from my suburb, and from Ararat (but closer to Lake Bryan). James's closest could be at Geelong, but I haven't searched.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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james just some advice before turning the hull over you and your dad should brace the beam from one side to the other with some timber in a cpl of places this will help support the hull if there are any weak spots.
It will also prevent any ribs from cracking from localized stress during the roll over!
:wink:
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By the sounds of it, I will be making a trip to Bunnings store soon!!
I will brace the hull in a couple of places before turning the hull upside down, I was pondering on the thought for a bit...
Also with the mesh strips and fibreglass resin, is that just like using chicken wire and plaster??
And I will search the whitepages and have a look at the shop in Elizabeth St. Do I need someone qualified to caulk a hull??
Sean, let me know about all your painting needs and what you do. The SJ will most likely be fairly similar in the that department!!
Thanks for all the advice.
Oh, and I went to Portland today to find out a little bit more about my hull, and only found out that the harbour master at the time was David Watson Hislop, died in 1947. Harbour Master from 1909 to 1937.. and a an original photo of it (or an identical boat) sitting on the beach next to the newly constructed break water (better known as the Tanker Wharf) All of the information is good information though, but I might have to work backwards for this one!!!
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james I would become fimilar with what your doing before purchasing any fibreglass as you don't want to waste time and money :wink:
I feel the best line of attack would be to purchase or borrow from your local libary any boat maintance books before you carry out any major work.
fibre glass once set will take huge amount of work to undo any mistakes.
:luck anth
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Anth, thanks for that, but I was just going to have a look at the approximate prices of materials that I could use and maybe even wack up a budget on the wall (I know I couldnt keep a budget doing this though, but a rough idea is always nice to have handy when talking about money)...
I am going to subscribe to the AAB magazine (but dont know how because they ask which edition you want to start with???) and that should help me a bit..
I will check out the Ararat Library (I doubt that it would have much to do with wooden boat building/restoration)..
There wont be any purchases for a while except for paint stripping materials, and bracing for the hull...
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Well, today was very productive in the SJ Shed!! I got out the power sander and some course sand paper and sanded away in the stern until the whole inside stern wall is back to wood (past the primer and everything).. except Dad came out with some useful info after I had finished sanding, the primer was most likely lead based... Oops, I wasn't wearing a mask....
But the wood is beautiful, and it shouldnt take me too long to get it back to wood.. I just need to use a heat gun..
The corner pieces I think are red gum, but I am not sure what the planking is made out of yet.. I will post a couple of photos soon and see if anyone can ID the wood..
But it is starting to look loved!!
Now I need a big :beer
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James,
Even if it is not lead based (unlikely due to its age) you should ALWAYS USE A MASK WHEN POWER SANDING, this will especially apply when you start using fiberglass.
Regards,
Gerald
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A question was asked earlier (Friday 24th Nov 2006 - 9:41am) about the caulking of a wooden hull.
During one period of my Admiralty Craft Apprenticeship (civilian) as Shipwright at HM Dockyard Chatham we did a stint of "Wooden Boat Building" although in later years the Shipwright Apprentices were trained in Boatbuilding with GRP (glass reinforced plastic).
The usual boat being built was a clinker-built 10 ft pulling dinghy (land-lubbers know these as rowing boats). The final stage of completion was that dinghies were painted by a Painter from somewhere else in the Dockyard, and then the dinghy was handed over to the Naval Stores Department for use by the Royal Navy or the Royal Dockyards. By the way, the other boats built by apprentices were 27-feet Montague-rigged Whalers, which were completed in similar fashion to the 10-foot dinghies
Before the hull was varnished/painted the planking was caulked. This was done using White Lead Putty mixed with Red/Brown Ochre pigment to match the Mahogany of the planking (which in those days mixed in bare hands - H&S would not allow this nowadays!). Nowadays the seams between the planks may be caulked with a silicone compound, which was not so readily available during my apprenticeship.
The coloured white lead putty was applied to the planking and forced between the faying surfaces with a circular piece of hardwood (beech) with a tapered end. Into the very end of this wooded tool was hammered a copper boat building rivet (nail) which was in turn filed to follow the same taper as the wood (to make the very end more hard-wearing). If the planking has been badly prepared the caulking compound could also be accompanied with caulking cotton (the boats we built did not need this addition).
It is recognised that when wooden warships (such as HMS Victory - launched at Chatham in 1765 http://www.hms-victory.com/ or HMS Unicorn - launched at Chatham in 1824 http://www.frigateunicorn.org/history.htm ) and merchantman were built, they were caulked with Tar, with Oakum (unpicked old rope) being hammered home with Shipwrights' Caulking Hammer and Irons, this caulking was done on thick planks which had special shaped seams to take the caulking. This type of Caulking was done on decks and hulls of the Royal Navies wooden minesweepers (of the "Ton" class - Coastal Minesweepers / Minehunters and the "Ham" - Inshore Minesweepers / Minehunters) before the copper coating and later GRP-coating of the hulls.
For some further guidance refer to the following web-site which may be helpful http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=1019858 , no doubt there may be other web-sites with some more guidance.
It is hoped that these remarks may help and show that caulking of seams for smaller hulls may not be so hard as many might imagine.
Brian
ex Shipwright.
HM Dockyard, Chatham
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Thank you so much for all that information once again Brian, you have helped me a lot... Thanks :beer
See I thought that caulking had to be done by a professional caulker, but how you put it doesnt seem that it would be like rocket science, still have to think a bit though!!
Basically all you have to do is put the putty inbetween the planks and bang it in so no water can get in..
And I have bought a mask for sanding now... Hopefully it works..
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This is a thread I started on (it is probably your rival Eddy :wink: ) Yachts and Boating Worldwide forum.. I took on Brian's advice and had a look at the site and posted:
Hello All,
I am new to the site, only joining a few minutes.. I am James McDougall, from 300km north west of Melbourne Victoria Australia...
I have recently bought a 1920's 14' Clinker made out of solid wood. She was used as the Portland Harbour Masters row boat from 1920-1937. She still has the beautiful shape, but needs a lot of restoration. My first job is to sand back all the paint and primers until I can get down to the wood itself. From then I need to fill in a few large cracks with fibreglass resin, but it was the CAULKING I have a question with.. I have no idea what so ever when it comes to caulking.. Any help and suggestions are always welcomed here!!!!!
Hopefully there are some suggestions out there that will be useful..
Cheers
I though that was a fair post, but according to a user on that site you do not caulk the boat to keep it water proof (?!?!?) and you dont fill in the cracks with Fibreglass resin either... I thought that the fibreglass resin was what you were meant to use.. this is a reply I got..
You do not caulk small clinker boats, all that does is stretch the fastenings and make them leak more. Nor should you fill the cracks with anything rigid like glass fiber, if they are not long fill them with a flexible caulking compound. If they are long either replace the plank, or if she is not worth the effort, clench doublers over the inside, bedded in flexible sealant, before filling the crack as before. If she is dry expect her to take up and squeeze out some of the caulk from the cracks. If she is to be used in sea water and the cracks are small ones, hard household soap can be used as a temporary stopping.
I am still not sure on what to do now.. one person is contradicting the other now :)
:beer
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With my boat I have used this super epoxy glue to fill up my cracks even tho it isn't a clinker, you could try that in your smaller places and thne maybe put a but-plate over the top for extra strength
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A but plate is just a sheet of material (metal) that screws on on top isnt it??
and the super epoxy glue you would just buy it from Bunnings or somehwere similar??
Ta
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My but plate is 5mm plywood, original one was 3mm. Then we will nail it on for extra strength.
I got the glue from 'the warehouse' or 'clintz' for $2 same stuff was $10 at mitre10
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Oh okay.. There is a Warehouse in Ballarat, I will go and check it out..
And I dont think that the 5mm or 3mm ply would work in SJ because all of the hull is curved or not flat anywhere.. Not a flat bottomed boat, or flat sided.. nothing.. Anyway.. They shouldnt be too expensive so I will give it a go..
Cheers
:beer
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A crack 1cm wide is a serious crack, and certainly not something to be treated lightly. You'll need to insert a 'graving piece', which is a piece of softwood [Murray pine would be ideal] let into the crack in place of the wood which isn't there. You'll have to straighten up the sides of the crack with a chisel or laminate trimmer. [A router would be too big to get in there]. If the crack wanders around, as they sometimes do, it may require several separate graving pieces to do the job. You'd have to glue the pieces in place with epoxy resin.
I assume that you're at Mildura or near there. I've been told that there is a very good boatbuilder (does anyone know who this is) at Echuca, although that is still a long drive on a hot day. You may be able to take the problem to him, or pick his brains.
Peter.
If a crack is 1 cm wide you surely have to wonder how it got there? Has the wood really shrunk by that extent? If so, is it ever going to swell back again? Or is there a crack because a bit of wood has splintered out? If the crack is likely to close partly on prolonged soaking, what happens if you have let in a piece of new wood to fill the entire gap? Wouldn't that be as bad as filling it with fibreglass in the first place?
Here are a few suggestions and questions from YBW about the SJ..
Would some Murray pine be okay to do this with?
:beer
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Surely Kevin is being reffered to here...he's the most notable shipwright in Echuca I'd say. Then again there are quite a few shipwrights that have come from Echuca and still reside in the area. It would be a good idea to contact some people of this occupation I believe in regards to your problems too.
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I was thinking that, I will try and get on to Kevin next time I am in Echuca, hopefully not too far away!!
I think that the hull, is nearly out of my league (at least the water tight part of it is..)
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I was at Discount Marine Supplies today (Elizabeth St, Melbourne; search via www.whitepages.com.au), buying parts for Jessie II. Mindful of the Jewish joke (ask two Jews a question, and you will get three opinions, a joke given to me by a Jewish friend), I asked for advice re filling the gaps on SJ's hull. The advice goes back to the first statement which James made: get it wet. Fill it with water to engine level, and wait. The further advice was to keep it with water inside when on the trailer between cruises.
Books on wooden-hull maintenance are not available from this outlet, but are available from Boat Books, St Kilda Rd, St Kilda (a shop which I have patronised; I bought my history of Halvorsen there). Again, use the electronic white pages.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Thanks for asking Roderick :D
I will, once I have finished getting rid of the paint, water it down (the water wont stay in the boat because of one crack) and see what happens..
Thats interesting, in between cruising when it is out of the water, keep water in the hull up to engine level!!
Thanks Roderick :D
I am searching white pages now for the shop!!!
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A spring ritual at cottages when I was young was to filling the boats with rocks to cause them to sink. The wood would swell up and close all the small cracks in about two days,you then refloated the boat and as long as it was kept in the water you were OK. This was normally done on Victoria Day weekend (May 24) by the older kids and teenagers, it was the "in thing" not to complain that you were getting even though you were standing knee to waist deep in very COLD water. Now days almost all the boats are fiberglass, and the few wood ones are well varnished and the owners would have a heart-attack if you suggested sinking there babys.
Regards,
Gerald
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Well, I wouldnt have a heart attack if the SJ hull went down in SHALLOW water (not that there is that much deep water about either :wink: )..
It would probably come up a better hull afterwards but would be unable to stay in the water..
Would be a good way to tell where the cracks are going to seal themselves though isn't it?!?
:beer
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Here's a photo of a 9ft clinker Adam Fitton built, it will be used as PS Billy Tea's tender boat. Its not finished yet.
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That is a really nice looking boat... Those strips of wood running the breadth of the boat on the inside (ribs I call them) what are they made of??? The SJ needs some desperately and I wasn't sure on how to do them.. any tips would be great!! Or should I just take it to a boat builder and get them to put the ribs in???
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We went to a Paint shop in Ballarat the other day - to buy a quicker method of removing paint.. Peel Away 9 - just a tin of ''stuff'' that you paint on your boat and stick some of the supplied paper on it and leave it for about 72hrs... Then Peel Away and all the paint should come off.. I haven't tried it yet - it has been too hot here and I have been working everyday :(
But hopefully it works and I have the paint of SJ quicker than expected - though I have my doubts about it too.. If this doesn't work the Paint shop guy didn't know what would :?
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Patience and Persistence will remove the paint and it will do the best job!
Hmmmm I like the sound of that! It's taken me over a year to get Grebe fully stripped off and ready for the next elements of work. There were so many other things I've done this year that Grebe wasn't always on my mind and although I wanted the paint to just go away having a quick fix will never subsitute for a good job and making sure all of the paint is gone.
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This "Peel Away 9" is meant to remove 30 layers of harsh paint if you leave it on for 72hrs before removing... We will just have to wait and see what happens.. I am going to Melbourne on Tuesday - the only day I dont work until Chrissie Eve - and I might pop into Whitworths (Elizabeth St, Melb CBD) and have a look around.. Might find some useful stuff there - I subscribed to the mag and it does look good!!
I am going to give the Peel Away a bit of a run tomorrow - and I might get away with a heat gun for a couple of days as it finally rained here :D
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Over the past couple of days I have slowly warn of the name of PS Sarah - Jane and think I could find another name..
I looked at books and more books.. couldnt find anything that I want..
It is funny, because I work in a supermarket and I see all these product names and say it in my head with a PS or Paddlesteamer in front of it..
Any name suggestions would be great..
Though I considered PS Ararat.. but Ararat doesnt deserve a paddle steamer of the same name..
Any suggestions would be great!!
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I like the tradition of naming an Australian river boat after a waterway. My suggestion of PS Kananook hit the right spot with the owners (but we do observe that progress has slowed since the arrival of a human baby).
With western Victoria in mind, MV/SL/PS:
* Hopkins: This would be a good-luck name, as you will never sink in 90% of this river.
* Mt Emu: doesn't sound like a waterway.
* Portland: not a waterway, but reflecting the boat's ancestry
* Surry: the river debouching close to Portland [after installing a canopy, you could cruise singing 'Surry with the fringe on top']
* Fitzroy: next after Surry
* Moyne: even further round, but at rallies, when people ask about the boat, you can say 'It's Moyne'.
* Wando: the least known of the Glenelg tributaries (there is a hamlet Wando bridge'. As you cruise, you could sing 'I love to go a Wandoring...".
* Burrumbeet: your local lake, but a bit long for a small boat.
* Wendouree: IIRC has been used before, but you are guaranteed not to sink (likewise Learmonth).
* Wannon: As you cruise, you could sing 'My Wannon only...'.
* Glenelg: reserved for a double-ended paddlesteamer.
* Grange Burn: horrible; listed just to make the others sound better.
A small bird?, to cruise alongside Grebe and Black Shag: Blue Wren? Swan? Cormorant is too long, and it might tend to dive underwater every few minutes.
A small fish? Cod is a short name, but a large Murray fish. At rallies, you could tell visitors that you love your Cod peace.
I small insect? Mosquito has gone already. Fly? There is a Fly River in Niugini, and you could always go Fly fishing.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor (and part-time lexicologist).
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The Brits namened some of there warships after flowers, ie Flower Class Corvettes, HMS Acanthus (pity the ones on HMS Pansy :oops: ), We have named some after native tribes HMCS Athabaskan. So the field is wide open, you could also try the Italian Navy ( It'ss A My Boat :roll: :oops: :wink: ).
Regards,
Gerald :)
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Thanks for your suggestions... (I do like the Italian joke!!)....
I have (once again) sat down and started :thinking seriously about this project of mine..
:news
The boat has been renamed to PS Cricket which was chosen (with lots of help from Roderick, whose excellent puns are absolutely :no1 ) because it fits in with the small boat "regime of names" such as Mosquito, Gnat, Gnatty etc... and it is a very Aussie name.. small insect of Australia and a great game in Australia..
Because the hull is so small I have opted away from a small diesel engine for my first project, and gone for paddle wheels powered by peddles.. This I think is highly achievable, hopefully in the not to distant future..
It really simplifies the whole project, by taking out the motor, which then takes out all the forms of driving the paddle wheels, and lessens the load in the boat. Also, it makes the centre of gravity a little easier to work out.
I would gear the peddles though, like a bike, so I could peddle slower and paddle faster..
I was thinking, I have an unused bike laying the shed next to
PS Cricket and was wondering if it the gears and peddles off it would be suitable to power the boat???
I have basically taken the project back down to basic level, as it is my first project, I want to leave the "machinery" out of this and save it for a larger boat...
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I had run across a site that showed a combination recumbent trike/canoe that he ran straight into the water. It had paddlewheels mounted on the sides. If you have access to some old bikes and some welding equipment it should be doable. Plus its Green which is the in thing.
Regards
Gerald
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When Michael settled on Bunyip for his boat, it was an inspired choice: a bunyip is a mythical river creature from Aboriginal lore; Bunyip is a river in Gippsland; before relocating to Merrigum, Michael's family farm had been near the town of Bunyip; there was a PS Bunyip back in the days, but not currently.
Some of my correspondence with James has been offlist. Between Merrigum and Echuca, there is now a plantation of Australian willow, for cricket-bat manufacture (currently the best are imported from Pakistan). I have offered funds to buy sufficient willow to replank the First XI feet of the boat. Instead of caulking with sikaflex, the corker plans to use pitch. Over, I won't go on punning. I am sure that James will have a ball with this project.
I have always used PS for paddlesteamer, and PV for paddlevessel (usally thinking diesel propulsion). I avoid PB paddleboat. I have learned to use SWPS and SWPV for sternwheelers.
Should quarterwheelers be QPS and QPV?
Should PV include all nonsteam propulsion (including pedal), or should there be new refinements?
EPV: electric paddle vessel
SEPV: solar-electric paddle vessel
PPV: pedal paddle vessel.
SWPPV: stern wheel pedal paddle vessel (there was one on e-Bay a week back, to which Eddy drew our attention).
My own post of pedalos at Tooradin raises a new nomenclature question: the paddles are at the front. fore paddle vessel FPV? Oops, I have used this before for fake paddle vessel. BPV bow paddle vessel?
In railway nomenclature, we distinguish between the transmission on diesel locos:
DM: diesel mechanical
DH: diesel hydraulic
DE: diesel electric
On this basis, PV Avoca has gone from PS to PVE to PVH (it arrived at Mildura with diesel-electric transmission, using traction motors and control equipment from scrapped Adelaide trams, but has been remotored and fitted with hydraulic transmission).
Most modern vessels are split between mechanical and hydraulic transmission.
In a related field, I have only just learned that SS is not steam ship; it is screw steam, and hence TSS is twin screw steamer (not turbine, and not a reference to triple expansion engines). AFAIK triple screw is TrSS. I think that the quads (Queen Mary?) didn't bother.
Presumably the whole nomenclature grew in an era when the assumed default case was sail, so SS can't be applied to sailing ship in today's environment, when sail has become the rarity.
Where does one draw the boundary between launch and ship?
I have seen SL (steam launch), but never ML (motor launch). My own 9 m boat is just as much MV as is Queen Mary 2.
I have seen (and hence use) ST for steam tug; how is a diesel tug described?
To explain an earlier post to people from outside Victoria: Hopkins River never does have much of a flow. The lowest 10 km form a navigable reach: effectively a lake dammed by a sandbar at the exit to the sea. There is a commercial cruise operation on it (not paddle).
Lake Wendouree at Ballarat has been dry for a year. People have been walking through with metal diviners, seeking the gold medals reputedly dropped overboard from a racing skiff during the 1956 Olympic Games rowing competitions.
Lake Learmonth has been dry for years, and now hosts novelty cricket matches and horse races on the bed.
Lake Burrumbeet has receded below the boat-ramp level.
I haven't checked Lake Beaufort or Lake Goldsmith.
Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
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Now that I have a lot more time on my hands, I should be able to really get stuck into PPV Cricket... and I am 100% certain I will have a "ball" with it..
I really dont want a sternwheel (mostly because they arent very "Aussie")... and im not sure on how side wheels could work..
Is it possible that I could (when not in use) fold them up so they dont protrude from the hull??
Also, I thought that it would be much better to have the paddles independantly driven, just to save having a paddle shaft that has to cross the width of the boat... which in turn would make it possible to have side wheels, because I could just detach the chain from the peddles and fold in the paddle box, and shaft would line up agains the wall of the hull..
If Im confusing you Im sorry, because I think Im letting my mind run... and confusing me sometimes..
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Okay...
I have just come back in from PPV Cricket and have done some more serious thinking...
I am still not 100% sure on the paddles yet (the actual hull doesnt look suitable for side wheels,,, but then again they would look great.. i really dont know)
I also went and grabbed my bike and "RP7-ed" the pedals, gears and chain and worked out that it would be fine for the boat... 1 rotation of the pedals = 3.5 rotations of the back wheel... (is that 1:3.5 or 3.5:1)...
And if I were to have the pedals in the middle of the boat, in line with the paddles, I would run a shaft along the bottome with the pedals, that was connected to the paddle shaft via a geared chain..
Yes or No???
Or....
Do I just connect the pedals straight to the paddles via geared chains???
If anyone could point out the wrongs with this I would be very grateful...
Would love any help... Im not that great at mechanics...
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Hi James,
Acualy your PPV Cricket should be HPVSW (Human Powered Vessel Side Wheeler) :roll: . Try looking up some of the sites on Recumbent Trikes to get some ideas on pedals.
Regards
Gerald :)
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http://www.svensons.com/boat/
http://www.autocanoe.com/
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AAAQ%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=270109080540&rd=1
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Thanks for those sites TJ.. they were very handy.. especially the ebay one (Roderick sent me those photos as well!!)
I have still worked on having side paddles, with the pedals located on the floor attached to a beam length rod with 1 chain on either side that connects directly (but will be geared) to the paddles...
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The Autocanoe site was the one I was trying to find, thanks T.J.
Regards,
Gerald
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Yes, the auto canoes pedal/paddle set up is the basis I am working on, but will be a little different due to the difference in hull/where the peddler sits/etc....
But is along the same lines..
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I'm still intrigued by the idea mentioned once before, of using electric motors/gears from a wheelchair... :)
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:post
Thanks for that Mick :great
The wheelchair motor/gear setup would be a great option (and do remember it being posted earlier)
I will look into the wheelchair "industry" and look into prices mainly.. just to get a rough idea.. though from what I have seen, they dont come cheaply.. even second hand :darn
But it would be a fun way of getting around in the Cricket..
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You don't need to buy an expensive wheelchair to get what you need - Take a look at things like car windscreen wiper motors, or electric window motors - They are probably near to what you require as far as power and gearing is concerned, and more to the point are a fraction of the price, especially second-hand.
The advantage with the wheelchair motors is that you get the batteries, speed controllers and motors all in one unit.
Just remember to take the basics of a suggestion, and then think laterally - You don't need to go with the most expensive option.
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I can't remember where I found this site but thought some of you might enjoy looking at it in the interim.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faltbootbasteln.de%2Ffbb-dampf-faltboot.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
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Thanks TJ..
I had a great find this morning.. I was nosing around our farms workshop and I found a nice lot of redgum that could look good on the boat.. just a concern about the weight..
Also, with the recent downpour of rain, I am 'launching' Crickets hull into a shallow dam, because the wood might seal up a little bit after getting to some moisture.
Can only hope though!
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unfortunately this project has been officially stopped.
We had a severe storm here not long ago and the wind managed to catch a large sheet of corrugated iron and smash it into the bow of the hull. It has been ruined beyond any repair. :(
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Hi James,
Good to see you back, but sad news about your paddler project :(
Regards
Eddy