Paddleducks
Other Marine Models => Live steam => Topic started by: Bill Hudson on May 24, 2006, 02:47:33 AM
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I have been researching engines for my (some day to build) model of the City of Eugene stern wheeler (see my photos in photos section). I have the specification (12"x 60") of the engines in an early newspaper account of the launching. I found a reprint of the 1902 version of The Marine Iron works Of Chicago U.S.A. stern wheeler catalogue which also contains engines of the same specifications.
Although I am not a steam engine design engineer I tried to draw up and engine in 1/2" =1' scale. I come up with 1/2' x 2 1/4" engines in scale. Taking in consideration the hull size plus the engines I come up with a boiler size of 106.08 Square inches of heating surface minimum.
My concern is the long stroke and the long length of steam travel from the boiler may cause the steam to cool and condense in the cylinders, even with superheated steam. The boat will be equipped with condensers but don't want the steam to condense too soon.
E.Westbury's stern wheeler engines are 5/8" x 1 3/4" which are fairly close to my engine size. I thought about using his engine plans but have a couple of concerns. First is that his stroke is quite short for stern wheeler operation. I am concerned that it would be a problem to operate at slow speeds. Second, his engines are not of the traditional stern wheeler design. In all of my research I have not come across such engines with the steam chest mounted on the sides rather than on top of the cylinder. I am sure some one will prove me wrong but in my research (of U.S.A Western river boat engines I have only come across top mounted steam chests. The valve rod action is transfered to the side by rocker arm type gear. I like the idea as it makes for a more visual engine. I think I will use Westbury's basic engine design but hybrid it with my engines using the longer stroke smaller bore . Comments welcome.
Bill
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Perhaps Sandy from ACS Engineering would be the best to answer your questions Bill - I know he's pretty busy at the moment, so he hasn't been on the forum too much, but hopefully he'll see your message and reply?
I can see all sorts of problems with long steam lines from the boiler to the engine - About the only really succesful steam powered sternwheeler I've seen personally, used a dummy boiler at the front of the boat and the "real" boiler was mounted close to the engine under the superstructure. That isn't an ideal solution, but it may be something worth considering?
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Bear with me this is on topic. :angel I needed an electric melting pot for my white metal casting equipment. I built the pot to be heated by a 6" electric range surface element. It was not too efficient. It melted ok but was slow in recovery and I kept burning my hands on the side of the pot. At that time I was working as a draftsman for a blimp company. One division was designing large lighted signs to go on the blimp envelope. The problem was heat transfer to the envelope and helium bags from the signs. To solve the problem they used a space industry ceramic wool insulation. Looked like 3/4" thick cotton batting or waste but very efficient in blocking heat. I can hold a sheet on my hand and not feel the heat from a torch through it. I took some home to wrap my pot. it brought the 600+ degree pot sides down to where I could hold my hand on it with out pulling it away. It also made the pot so efficient that I could control it via a computerized Omron control unit. I have some of this wool left over and plan on lagging my boiler with it. It cuts nicely with household shears so I am thinking of cutting 1/8" thin strips of the stuff and wrapping the steam lines with it much as was done on the regular boats. I am thinking of then wrapping it all with the plaster gauze used to make casts or in model rail road scenery. Should look authentic.
Bill
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I think it may be a good idea to do some testing prior to fitting the whole lot into a boat Bill - Rig up the intended boiler and engine and run steamlines that are the same length as you'll need to use in the model, at least that will give you a good idea if it's going to work before you spend a lot of time and effort fitting everything to the model....
I wish I could be more help on this as the subject fascinates me, but sadly it's beyond my experience... Hopefully someone (Sandy?) will jump in and give some constructive advice?
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Eddy,
I plan on doing just that. In fact I plan on building the boiler, engines and paddle wheel as one unit so it can be removed from the boat for testing, maintenance and exhibit. My friend is building a drifter (sail/ steam). He is using the same boiler, I plan to build, to run a 4 cylinder wobbler. The drifter is the same length as my paddler. I figure I will have six to eight more inches of steam line to my engines than he has. Although his is not yet mounted in the boat it has run quite well on the bench. His first boat, similar in size and using the same boiler to run a two cylinder engine is one fine steaming vessel. Just thinking out loud until some one kicks in with suggestions. :thinking I have not heard of many (any) stern wheeler model boats with long stroke engines. Maybe it is a problem. I have heard of using regular steam engines with gearing to run the paddle wheel. I am not fond of the idea of a false boiler plus the real one. I am concerned about my limited space for fuel, water, batteries and RC controls.
Bill
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Hi PD's - & I am too am eagerly waiting for Sandy to sit down & talk with us again :gather - :hehe - I understand in principal we should keep our steam tube runs as short as possible, however we see many examples of French model marine steam plant & they all seem to use hard drawn brass tube over copper as it stays straight & polishes well - this is on operational vessels without loss of functionality but clearly with the resultant thermal loss
You made a :post on the benefits of good quality insulation & this is clearly reinforced in the say 10 page document set that accompanied my boiler package full kit from ACS [boiler, burner, steam regulator, lubricator.......]
Being from the far off land of OZ & of humble convict Irish stock, I have been known on PD's to maketh a comment that was not QUITE correct, [but at least I can admit it :angel] - so from this I think the 7" longer HP tube runs will be of little consequence provided adaquate insulation is provided & this may include insulation + wooden banding to the engine cylinder OD's which was I think in keeping with the originals
So this only leaves the VEXING question of long cylinder stroke & low RPM :shoot but after another cup of :coffee my thought is..... if the bore to stroke ratio of a twin cylinder slide valve model engine is relative to the full size engine, then the model engine will work from rest & achieve & maintain LOW RPM...... a requirement may have something to do with rotational mass :?: :?: - Derek
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Some where in my file cabinet or a book is a formula for figuring out areas of the steam passages for an engine and steam chest. It would seem to me that large passages would be necessary as the steam will be quite wet by time it is exhausted.
Bill
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Hi PD's - just thinking :idea: again Bill - can you get access to an SKF digital thermo pen or a digital laser pyrometer? - if so take your colleagues Drifter boiler, add 2" of silicone tube to the relief valve chimney vent tube, then add a 12" length of 5/32 brass tube.... more silicone....another 12" of 5/32 brass tube....fire up the boiler & initially leave the lengths of tube uncovered & check the tube temperatures from the chimney.. to first joint... then second joint etc
Depending on the temperature loss, try & wrap the brass tube lengths in tightly wound cotton string or ?????? & retake the temperatures
I did some similar tests on Decoys steam package some months back as I was concerned with potential overheat in the hull, however when I posted them over to ACS Engineering....Sandy came back with all OK - I will post a copy & a snap of the temperature recording method -
All of the calculations in this world can sometimes never convince me, however a simple practical test makes me :D ......Derek
Oh BTW, if you are concerned about SOGGY steam at the cylinders, a steam dryer line in the final pass from the boiler will help............ :beer
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Hello Bill Hudson and others, I have had first hand experience on a a live steam stern wheeler. She ran in New Zealand, was 230 ft. long, the steam run was about 170 ft. from boiler to engines in 3" lagged pipe suspended up under the deck-head. The engines were about 18"x60" stroke, wheel about 16' dia. x 18 or 20 ft. wide. ( bit of a guess here but I do have photo's.Exhaust drains were about 5ft. long and went straight overboard to get rid of condensate then swapped over to funnel discharge when running hot. Valve gear was Stevensons link with "D" valves, not like the rocking beam with pitman arms as used in the western rivers towboats. The boiler was a drum about 12ft dia. with center flue, double fire doors and operating pressure 100. p.s.i. I think there were 18 floats on the wheel. regards rayman
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Hello Bill Hudson and others, I have had first hand experience on a a live steam stern wheeler. She ran in New Zealand, was 230 ft. long, the steam run was about 170 ft. from boiler to engines in 3" lagged pipe suspended up under the deck-head. The engines were about 18"x60" stroke, wheel about 16' dia. x 18 or 20 ft. wide. ( bit of a guess here but I do have photo's.Exhaust drains were about 5ft. long and went straight overboard to get rid of condensate then swapped over to funnel discharge when running hot. Valve gear was Stevensons link with "D" valves, not like the rocking beam with pitman arms as used in the western rivers towboats. The boiler was a drum about 12ft dia. with center flue, double fire doors and operating pressure 100. p.s.i. I think there were 18 floats on the wheel. regards rayman
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Hello Bill Hudson and others, I have had first hand experience on a a live steam stern wheeler. She ran in New Zealand, was 230 ft. long, the steam run was about 170 ft. from boiler to engines in 3" lagged pipe suspended up under the deck-head. The engines were about 18"x60" stroke, wheel about 16' dia. x 18 or 20 ft. wide. ( bit of a guess here but I do have photo's.Exhaust drains were about 5ft. long and went straight overboard to get rid of condensate then swapped over to funnel discharge when running hot. Valve gear was Stevensons link with "D" valves, not like the rocking beam with pitman arms as used in the western rivers towboats. The boiler was a drum about 12ft dia. with center flue, double fire doors and operating pressure 100. p.s.i. I think there were 18 floats on the wheel. regards rayman
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Hello rayman, thank you.
Hello rayman, thank you.
Hello rayman, thank you.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :clap2
Bill
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Hi PD's :D :D :clap :music
At last I have managed to sit down and do some post work.
I know our illustrious DW has informed you of my threatened post so here goes.
Things have been rather hectic here at ACS over the last few months with more than a few problems to contend with...1st I had the lathe bearings issue (now totaly resolved) which put me well behind schedule, this was followed, :x :cry: :cry: :twisted: :evil: at the end of May, by a total loss of the ACS computer system due to a nasty virus that somehow got past the firewall (probably attached to an e-mail) and virus scanner and totaly wrecked my hard drive.
(Reading the posts, it would appear that Eddy was also plagued by these things, fortunately not so severely).
The result has been a lot of extra :computer work replacing the hard drive and operating system (yes that got scrambled also) followed by a lengthy excercise in recovering lost (licensed) software, including my web site authoring package, Paypal and other bank account access etc.
I now have an external 200Mb hard drive which is a clone of the main drive, this gets updated every week (incrementally).
Thankfully, :D :D :D I have now recovered most of the important stuff relating to ACS business, however, I still have a fair bit of work to do recovering some of my other stuff.
Ok, enough of the sob story.....back to PD's stuff.... :great :terrific
1st off...engineman...how are things going with that lovely engine you made? you mentioned some issues with boiler pressure vessel paperwork so if you need to discuss these then perhaps a direct e-mail would be appropriate.
2nd...I attach a lengthy (PDF) document aimed at Bill Hudson PD_1, which may help answer some of his issues regarding steam ports, condensation etc, however, since this is a very extensive subject I have left some of it for a second installment :twisted: :twisted: :wink: :wink:
Interestingly..his questions are quite topical for me at this time, since I have obtained via a friend, an almost complete Dumas kit of the Creole Queen. Just the drive motors and a few minor parts missing.
Now I know the Creole Queen was not steam powered, however,
I am intending, over the next 18 months, to build this up with a few changes to be more like the Belle of Louisville, which was steam powered, complete with LONG STROKE steam engines having Pitmans and Lever operated valve gear, complete with full California cutoff..... :great :hehe :hehe :music ...should be fun.
Consequently, any drawings/plans of the Belle of Louiseville, or any of her sister ships would be very helpfull. I am particularly interested in the engines/boiler locations.
ok..enough already :nose :spam
Finally..for this post anyway..I also attach some photos of a recently finished SCOTT water tube boiler, which now resides in NZ.
This has a barrel length of 8" x 2 1/2" dia and is fitted with 17 water tubes and a superheater. It is rated for 75psi but has the safety set for 60psi as requested by the customer.
The white coloured stuff on the inside of the end plates is 2mm thick Kaowool insulation, the main outer wrapper is lagged inside with 8mm Kaowool.
The burner is 6" long x 2" wide and it will raise steam from cold (ambient) to 60 psi in just about 3 minutes max.
Ok PD's I will stop blowing my trumpet now// :terrific :great :news :yeah and get this posted.
More to follow soon....HONEST..I am getting an artical on steam generation sorted and also one on ceramic burners.
Regards to all :respect :respect2 :trophy
Sandy
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A fascinating PDF document Sandy, that I'm sure will be very useful to lots of our fellow PD'ers. My god this steam stuff is complicated! :-)
I hope you'll post your progress on the Belle of Louiseville once you get started - I've never seen a proper working steam powered sternwheeler, only one with a cobbled together inline twin oscillator.
Finally, if you could knock up a boiler, burner, condensor and triple expansion diagonal steamplant for me to evaluate (free of charge of course), I'll happily submit a totally unbiased report on your craftsmanship here on Paddleducks and in Model Boats and Marine Modelling magazines..... Can't say fairer than that now can I? :hehe
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good to hear some one modelling the B.of L. you dont see that to often its going to be tuff to change the C.Q. over. I plan on riding her soon so I might be able to get some pictures of it for you.
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Thank you Sandy,
Lots of stuff to ponder. :thinking Looking forward to the second PDF installment. Great looking boiler.
Bill
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Oh what pretty steam boilers...I want a model steam engine...heck I want a real one! A nice portable or traction engine would go down a treat for me!
Anyone with a free full size traction engine contact me...
For some reason I think I will get no reply.
I read the PDF too...well skimmed over it, it looked way to much like my maths class today...(shiver)...
Eddy's right it does look complicated. Premachined model steam engine goodness is looking good too me right now!
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I'll try again. It seems my last reply got lost in cyberspace.
Sandy, Thanks for the information it gives me a lot to think about :thinking
Am looking forward to the next PDF installment. Good looking boiler. Any plans (drawings) for it.
Bill.
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Well now my first thank you post shows up after i posted the second one. No problem, your effort was worth two thank yous. :respect2
Bill
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:D :D
Hi PD's,
Many thanks to all for your kind comments, most appreciated.
Ky paddlewheeler....
I would be very happy to see some pictures of the full size B.of L. I only have some very small pictures of her, not much specific detail easily seen, when I looked her up on the web and got some other info from the same source, however, this is a bit sketchy.
The main reason for changing to the B.of L. was the mere fact that she was powered by the type of engines I am proposing, although they may well have had piston or slide valves, rather than the lever operated type.
The main thing is that the stern wheel was driven by Pitmans, rather than by other connection.
As I don't, at this point in time, have very much other details of her, I am not able to judge how difficult , or otherwise, the change over may be, so an info would be most helpfull. :respect
Sean....
If you thought that bit was tough...just wait for the next bits... :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil: :hehe :hehe :music
Anyhow, I wish I had your flair for writing.
Bill Hudson..
Happy to oblige my friend, just sorry it took so long, anyway, I hope you glean something from it.
As for the boiler, well, I don't have actual detailed drawings available, at least not ones that would be easily understood by anyone but me (pencil drawn, workshop sketches), however, if you look back through the 'Live Steam' posts, under 'Boilers' and look for a post I put in on Sun Dec 13 2005, you will find attached a PDF of the basic Scott layout.
This is approx 1/2 full size if printed out and apart from some minor positional changes to the safety valve and filler etc (Customer requests) the rest is pretty much the same.
Hope this helps.
Ok guy's .... :P :D :D 8)
Must dash.
Best regards to all.
Sandy
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Try the following links Sandy, they may help....
http://2cute2bstr8.net/photo/louisville%20trip/belle%20of%20louisville.JPG
http://www.steamboats.org/gal-bol.htm
http://home.insightbb.com/~chronos70/Belle-of-Louisville.JPG
http://gallery.kyhometown.com/louisville/aac
http://paddlewheel-boat-cruises.visit-louisville.com/
http://www.tccckymops.com/images/events_pictures/steering_retreat03/062803_2.JPG
http://www.hskline.com/Photos/2004%20cruise/Belle%20of%20Louisville%20012.jpg
A plan is available.....
http://alan-bates.steamboats.org/modelplans-belle.html
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Hi PD's :D :D :clap :music
Finally..for this post anyway..I also attach some photos of a recently finished SCOTT water tube boiler, which now resides in NZ.
This has a barrel length of 8" x 2 1/2" dia and is fitted with 17 water tubes and a superheater. It is rated for 75psi but has the safety set for 60psi as requested by the customer.
The white coloured stuff on the inside of the end plates is 2mm thick Kaowool insulation, the main outer wrapper is lagged inside with 8mm Kaowool.
The burner is 6" long x 2" wide and it will raise steam from cold (ambient) to 60 psi in just about 3 minutes max.
Ok PD's I will stop blowing my trumpet now// :terrific :great :news :yeah and get this posted.
More to follow soon....HONEST..I am getting an artical on steam generation sorted and also one on ceramic burners.
Regards to all :respect :respect2 :trophy
Sandy
With work like that you should be BLOWING YOUR TRUMPET, it looks absolutely fantastic. What is the black coating and how flame/heat resistant is it?
Regards,
Gerald
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:D :D
Sean....
If you thought that bit was tough...just wait for the next bits... :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil: :hehe :hehe :music
Anyhow, I wish I had your flair for writing.
Sandy
I'll blame my age and the fact that I am studying General maths! Actually I think I might download the document again and try to make heads and tails out of it! If I do can I get a chocolate- that's what my Maths teacher would do...which reminds me, he owes me six chocolates!
And thanks for your comment about my writing! I just gave my english teacher the link to the forum...so maybe I'll get some chocolates off him too!
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:D :D :D :computer
Hi Pd's,
First off let me join you all in welcoming fabrice-bretagne in our midst.
I hope you find our efforts worthy, and I am sure everyone would welcome any input you may have to offer.
Ok, here goes...
Sean wrote....
I'll blame my age and the fact that I am studying General maths! Actually I think I might download the document again and try to make heads and tails out of it! If I do can I get a chocolate- that's what my Maths teacher would do...which reminds me, he owes me six chocolates!
And thanks for your comment about my writing! I just gave my english teacher the link to the forum...so maybe I'll get some chocolates off him too!
I suppose this means I will have to get my INGLISH WRITE or I will get detenshun... :hehe :hehe
Anyway, just for you I have added a special section to the attached post documents.
Gerald....Thanks for the kind words...I do try to do a good job.
The paint used is 'Industrial Heat Shield' manufactured by Plasti-Kote.
It has complete heat resistance up to 425 deg C and puts up with a good deal from direct contact with the burner flame, although in this situation it does eventually burn off, but only locally.
:hmmm :hmph
Ok, I have attached several PDF files which constitute part 2 of the steam saga.
The one called 'Concerning entropy' was added as a bit of fun, aimed at Sean, although it may well be of interest to all.
More to come.
Best Regards to all.
Sandy
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WOW! Absolutely fantastic Sandy!
Its certainly going to take some time to read all that lot and even start to understand it, but I'd still like to say a great BIG thankyou for all the effort you've put into producing these documents! I'm sure they will be appreciated by a great many people, both current members and new ones in the future...
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Hey Sandy, on a number of occasions you have made PAULTRY excueses....."must go PD's & check as a few boilers are in the pickle"
Is this your text for you needing a wee drop of :beer :?: :?: :?:
I understand a pickling solution for steel is dilute H2SO4, but what is the pickling solution for copper :?: - reason I ask is the black HT paint on my ACS de-oiler/condenser needs replacing & need to know the best method of surface preparation prior to repainting with that black gloss aerosol HT paint as commercially available here in OZ - as mentioned in a post offline a few weeks back
Oh BTW, :oops ...... the only reason the paint needs replacing on my ACS de-oiler/condenser is because the 1/25 scale boiler room crew were :beer & :gather rather than completing their work without scratching the Bl.........dy thing - Derek
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:darn :beer :oops
..Is this your text for you needing a wee drop of
Trust our DW to sus me out... :great :nah
The best way to prepare your boiler for a re-paint would be to remove the existing (scratched coating, I told you to get better staff!!!) with some cellulose thinners....messy but it is the best way.
The normal pickle I use for copper boilers is a dilute solution of Sulphuric acid...not very good to have around the home...a suitable alternative is Citric Acid.
If you have a store near you that sells bear and wine making products then this can be purchased from them in crystal form.
Dilute 100gm in a 4 ltrs warm water, and soak the whole boiler in it for a few hours, after you have stripped all the old paint off with thinners.
This will remove any greasy residue and/or surface oxide.
Rinse thoroughly in clean fresh HOT water, leave to dry and then get the paint on fairly quickly.
Citric acid is quite safe to handle (you can safely stick bare hands in it), and may be flushed away down the domestic drains, with lots of water. NOT SO with Sulphuric.
PS...do not use pickle for anything that has been soldered with Soft solder, or Comsol. It will turn black and oxidise.
Only to be used with silver soldered, or brazed joints.
Now where did I put that :coffee :oops :beer :angel
Just for the record..PD's....Our Derek has made a claim that it was an OZ what invented WD40.....Possible true, the trouble is they also sell the previous experimental formuli, the ones that did not work as water repellants....they call them 'Fosters' and '4XXXX'....not that I have tried them, you understand, :angel however, I am given to believe that they taste much the same as WD40....so prehaps there is some truth in the rooommmer..... :oops :shhh :nose :hehe :music
Have fun. keep smilling
Regards to all.
Sandy.
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WOW! Absolutely fantastic Sandy!
Its certainly going to take some time to read all that lot and even start to understand it, but I'd still like to say a great BIG thankyou for all the effort you've put into producing these documents! I'm sure they will be appreciated by a great many people, both current members and new ones in the future...
:D :D
Hi Eddy,
Hey, it's my pleasure my friend....just passing on some of my limited knowledge in the hope it helps someone.
your post got me thinking, :thinking :shoot , and I have a suggestion to make....What about collating all the documents under one heading...E.G. Steam workshop...or some such.
This might make it a little easier for people to locate all the parts, not only my input, but everyone elses as well?
I know that this would create a fairly big job for you to piece it together, however, If this could be done, then I would be happy to post any new sections, or sub sections, under whatever heading you choose.
I think this would be of particular benefit to new comers, who may not be aware of all the different headings that things tend to appear under, and thus they may miss some things that would be of help/interest to them.
Just a suggestion. :evil: :twisted: :D
Have a think about it anyway, and let us know.
Best Regards.
Sandy.
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Thanks Sandy,
It's my intention to start setting up some new areas on the website for articles such as yours, I'll do the same with any plans we have etc etc...
These won't be on the forum, but hopefully in an easily accessible format off our homepage. It will be a while before I get round to doing it though, family holidays are fast approaching so I have to listen carefully to what "she who must be obeyed" says right now if I want to keep my bits intact!
But hopefully over the winter I'll get round to doing all this stuff - I also have to start organising a move to a larger server to give us the space and bandwidth necessary to carry out these changes...
If you could arrange for 36 hour days I would probably be able to manage everything I need to do - 24 hours a day just isn't enough!
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Thanks Sandy,
It's my intention to start setting up some new areas on the website for articles such as yours, I'll do the same with any plans we have etc etc...
These won't be on the forum, but hopefully in an easily accessible format off our homepage. It will be a while before I get round to doing it though, family holidays are fast approaching so I have to listen carefully to what "she who must be obeyed" says right now if I want to keep my bits intact!
But hopefully over the winter I'll get round to doing all this stuff - I also have to start organising a move to a larger server to give us the space and bandwidth necessary to carry out these changes...
If you could arrange for 36 hour days I would probably be able to manage everything I need to do - 24 hours a day just isn't enough
!
:D :D
Ok Eddy, sounds like you have some existing thoughts on this matter, so I won't interfere.
As a clarification....I was thinking more of a SUB Heading, still under Live steam, but was not sure if that could be achieved. Whatever, I am sure you will make the correct choices, as you have always done.
I agree, 36, or even 48 hours a day would be helpfull at times, but then work would just expand to fill it all up, so yer just couldn't win.
Take care. and enjoy your family holiday...and do as your told..... ya need all yer bits.....:twisted: :evil:
Best regards.
Sandy
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Hello All
Just joined the forum and this thread. I live in the shadow of Mt St Helens Washington State. Just starting into modeling. I am working on the GEARS 2006 double osilator steam engine in Alu.
Sandy: great info and great model boiler.
Bill Hudson: I saw your pics of the steam tug Portland. Are you in the Portland area. If yes will you be at Tualitin this weekend for the regatta or at GEARS in Sept.
Dave
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Dave,
I live in Eugene. Belong to Emerald Valley Model Engineers club. I am on the GEARS board but recovering from surgery has kept me from many of the last meetings. I will miss Tualitin, this weekend, our club meeting is down at Drain, Or. Sunday. (we usually have the meetings here in Eugene). A club member has a new track set up down there and will be running his train on it for us all to see and ride. Just heard of the regatta yesterday, not enough time to change plans. I hear the Portland will be under steam and up up there too. Hate to miss it.
Did you make it down to The Brooks Steam up? It seemed a little low keyed this year. maybe it is just because I'v been to so many of them.
Unfortunately again scheduling has messed me up and I will only be able to make it to GEARS Sunday. I had planned to come up early and park the motor home at Jantzen beach and drive over and help set up GEARS at the Armory. Instead I will be in Gold Beach the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and will beat it home Saturday before GEARS. This trip was planned a year ago but I did not realize it was same weekend until too late to get out of it. Our club should have a table there. We are making tube benders (for small tubing) as a club project and will be selling them there.
Do you watch Oregon Art Beat on OPB? If so perhaps you remember seeing the bit on my models. They ran it again a few months ago.
Bill
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OK PD's - :sorry my turn to get caught out a bit
1) yes, it does appear that Sandy keeps spirits in the workshop but :shhh - especially Kate :!:
2) the thinners worked fine thank you
3) couldn't find a BEAR shop, so no citric acid was found
4) did use VHT primer & gloss & cured in the oven :bravo
5) got caught out :rant with the WD40 bit, it was invented by three Irish imigrants in USA - but had they have migrated to OZ I am sure they would have invented it 10 years earlier :hehe :music - Derek
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Bill
Sounds like you will be having fun in Drain and yes I think I did see your trains on OPB.
The Portland will be in St Helens for the weekend in steam. Wife and I are going to try and get there. I am hoping that I can get a camera full of pictures of her. I would like to model her in live steam.
Yes we made it to Brooks this year. Got some good pictures of some traction engines in steam.
Have fun steaming
Dave
Dave,
I live in Eugene. Belong to Emerald Valley Model Engineers club. I am on the GEARS board but recovering from surgery has kept me from many of the last meetings. I will miss Tualitin, this weekend, our club meeting is down at Drain, Or. Sunday. (we usually have the meetings here in Eugene). I hear the Portland will be under steam and up up there too. Hate to miss it.
Did you make it down to The Brooks Steam up? It seemed a little low keyed this year. maybe it is just because I'v been to so many of them.
Do you watch Oregon Art Beat on OPB? If so perhaps you remember seeing the bit on my models. They ran it again a few months ago.
Bill
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Dave and all PDs so interested. I envy you seeing the Portland under steam. I hope you do get some good pictures and you can post them here.
I have quite a few more of the engines and engine room plus the pilot house interior. I am sort of cautious of posting too many photos as I don't want to take up too much space in the gallery. Of course if there is enough interest I would be glad to post more.
I guess the trip to Drain is off now. Instead we will be packing up the motor home for a trip south. We are going down to Mc Cloud, California with a group of fellow travel club members. It was supposed to be the following weekend but with the price of gas climbing ,$120 just for a little over a half a tank, the wife and I decided to go early and take our time going down, sightseeing as we go. A group of us are taking the dinner train ride to the base of Mt Shasta. I am hoping we will get the steam engine this time rather than the diesel engine. This is a Festival weekend and that usually means a couple of steam engines running and hopefully the Dolbeer vertical spool logging donkey running again. They also have a large Corrless (spelling?) engine I want to get some pictures of.
How will you get across the river to St. Helens? It looks like you have to go back down to Portland and up 30 or up to Longview and across there. Did you get to see the implosion of Trojan?
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Hi PD's - Bill, our webmaster Eddy is the one to tell us re the WEB page limit - I for one would be most interested in see the snaps of the Portland engine room [& am sure many other PD's would be of similar thought]
@ $120 USD for 1/2 a tank of GAZ, makes me think that MOTO home must be a pretty big :beer
Here is a snap of the BP oil line being repaired in PJ's neck of the froZen woods :crash - ...................with the cost of fuel being :offtopic ......I am glad I am re-converting PS Decoy from 12 Volt to real steam via GAZ, or does that sound a bit IRISH to all :?: :hehe :hehe :idea: - Derek
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Derek, all,
Well it seems I sort of, have, caught a current and allowed the paddler (topic) sort of drift :offtopic I'll see if I can bring her back into the main stream. :thinking :thinking The motor home engine (still drifting but fighting the current) is a Ford V10 (first version) and gets around 7.8 MPG. Derek speaking of converting PS decoy got me to thinking. :thinking :nose. If I replace the V10 with a steam plant (might loose a little living quarters) then hook it up to two paddle wheels with rubber floats :hmmm do you think they would propel the MH down the road? I think I have finally broken out of OT the current and back into the main stream (Live steam and Paddle wheels?) :yeah
I will post some more picts of the Portland later, it is getting past early morning here. I'm past my first cup of coffee :coffee and time for a refill, shower etc. and then get my day going. If I don't get too late a start, maybe a short game of golf before it gets too warm.
Bill
Quote: (don't know how to get this in those cute little windows like others do)
@ $120 USD for 1/2 a tank of GAZ, makes me think that MOTO home must be a pretty big
Here is a snap of the BP oil line being repaired in PJ's neck of the froZen woods - ...................with the cost of fuel being ......I am glad I am re-converting PS Decoy from 12 Volt to real steam via GAZ, or does that sound a bit IRISH to all - Derek
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Yes Bill up to Longview and back to St Helens. I was able to get 28 shots most in focus. Tug Portland had steamed down from Her berth on the Willamette yesterday and was still holding 25 PSI on the boiler with burners off at 11 am today. I bought a set of model plans in 1/8" = 1' hope to scale them up to at least 1/4" = 1'
Very interesting engines 26" bore 9' stroke with variable cutoff. Hug may have to go bigger than 1/4" = 1', model engine would only be slighly bigger than 1/2 bore by 1 1/4 stroke.
I'll have to figure out how to attach pics
Dave
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Dave,
Thanks for posting the picture of the Portland. It is good to see a full side view or her. At her berth she is hidden below the seawall and you can only see her superstructure. The size for the Portland engines at 1/4" scale is the size for the City of Eugene engines at 1/2" scale. At 1/2" scale the Portland would be one very large model. 3/8" may be more reasonable but a very awkward scale to work in.
Bill
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Bill
I wonder if there are a set of drawings for the engines on the Portland. I would like to know what the main and cutoff valves look like. I know they are both piston valves but I'm not sure of the porting arrangement.
I would like to know if there are plans for the steam winches that are on the bow and were just fwd of the engine room when she was working.
Have you made any progress on your sternwheeler ?
Dave
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Bill
I wonder if there are a set of drawings for the engines on the Portland. I would like to know what the main and cutoff valves look like. I know they are both piston valves but I'm not sure of the porting arrangement.
I would like to know if there are plans for the steam winches that are on the bow and were just fwd of the engine room when she was working.
Have you made any progress on your sternwheeler ?
Dave
I have a set of plans of the wooden Portland (1) There are also plans for the Portland II which is the one operating now. I do not know how extensive they are.
The guy drawing up the plans is
Edw. K. Neaubauer
11120 SE Maplehurst Dr.
Milwauke, Or 97222
All his plans are available aboard the Portland. His plan list lists plans for 33 different boats including the Beaver sidewheel brigantine built in England in 1834 for the Hudson's Bay Co.
Surely there must be engine drawings somewhere.
My stern wheeler is a long way off yet. Just getting the data together and hope to draw up the engines this winter. Maybe even get started machining them. Am debating whether to cast them or fabricate them.
Bill
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Bill
I bought the plans for Portland 2 when I was aboard her at St Helens. Thanks for the address, wonder if he is online also?
I have been working with my ship design software to scale the plans I have up to 3/8"= 1' . This will give me a model just short of 7' long with main engine bore of .812 and stroke of 3.375. I have built a foundry furnace and would like to use castings every where that I can.
As you can see I too am in the research stage of this project. One nice thing about doing Portland is that I still have the working vessel just down the road that I can go and take as meany photos as needed and take measurements.
Dave