Paddleducks
Paddler Modelling => Paddlewheels/Drive Systems => Topic started by: Eddy Matthews on September 18, 2005, 06:54:40 AM
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Since Cheddar Models have now ceased to exist, and Stuart Turner cannot give any clue as to how long it will be before they start making the Cheddar range of engines, I've been searching around for other alternatives for steam powered models....
I've found the following companies that look quite good, so I thought I'd pass on the info...
ACS Engineering http://www.acs-engineering.co.uk/index.htm
ModelSteamEnginesUK http://www.modelsteamenginesuk.com/
Jurgen Kraft http://www.sell-it-easy.de/shop_e/query.php?cp_sid=206121cc9c19&cp_tpl=5501
John Hemmens http://www.steamengines.co.uk/about.asp
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In Echuca there's a toy store with connected model store that sells minature steam engines I don't know what brand they are but I could check it out for you while I'm up there!
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Greetings,
Don't forget Fabrice BRETAGNE. (http://fabrice.bretagne.club.fr/Index.htm) The QUARTZ 2cc horizontal is especially intended for paddlers.
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Greetings,
Don't forget Fabrice BRETAGNE. (http://fabrice.bretagne.club.fr/Index.htm) The QUARTZ 2cc horizontal is especially intended for paddlers.
Thanks for that one, I hadn't heard of them before, so I've added it to my favorites list. The Quartz is a lovely looking little engine and definately one to keep in mind for future projects...
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Great site, pity I cannot understand it! They look like they manufacture some great steam stuff. I have seen the Anton engines favourably commented on in Model Boats. Is anybody able to translate and work out the price for the horizontal engine and a matching boiler/burner kit? Thanks, Ian
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A couple of bits from my end :)
Yes, ANTON stuff is pretty good. I own ANTON'S brand new CRYSTAL engine and more than satisfied.
But please, don't forget about another French manufacturer - JMC - http://jmc.vapeur.free.fr/
and German 'CHEDDAR'- REGNER Dampftechnik - http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/
Both of these companies have in model range several horizontal engines specially intended for paddlers.
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Here is a quick translation of the "Quartz" twin horizontal paddler engine.
QUARTZ 2 cc Horizontal
All up weight: 1300 grs
BASIC "QUARTZ" HORIZONTAL KIT
ENGINE KIT 340 €uro
ENGINE ASSEMBLED 400 €uro
BOILER 230 €uro
Comprising:
Steam pipe fitting
Safety Valve
(Fittings for optional accessories are plugged)
Boiler dimensions for Quartz 2 cc engine.
Dia: 69 mm
O/a length: 150 mm
Boiler empty weight: 600 grs
Uable capacity: 240 cc
NOTE: The Quartz boiler comes with Steam pipe fitting and
Safety Valve. All other accessories are optional.
Optional accessories:
Radio controlled gas shut off valve 65 €uro
Fully automatic (pressure activated) gas shut off valve. 140 €uro
Standard Gas regulator. 80 €uro
Dual Membrane Gas regulator 120.00 €uro
GAS BURNER KIT 50 €uro
Comprising:
30 gr. burner
On/off tap for disposable cartridge
I length silicon tube
_____________________________________________________________
1 €uro = 1.22365 USD = 0.676701 GBP = 1.44280 CAD = 1.59508 AUD
So as you can see a complete paddler set up from Anton is not an inexpensive proposition and would come out somewhere around. $850 US plus shipping and customs duty. The Brits may have it a bit better at £470 with no duty but I'm not sure if they would have a Euro VAT on it. The Quartz 2 cc is however the least expensive of all their engines and looks like a lovely little set up.
PJ Victoria, BC Canada
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Thanks guys, it's fascinating to find out just how many steamplants are available. I've added all the sites to my "favorites" list ready for my next foray into steam - I have to admit that I'm thinking more and more about going totally into live steam powered models and ditching all my electrically powered models.
Does anyone know what the bore and stroke is of the Anton twin cylinder paddler engine? I can't see any reference to that on their website...
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Does anyone know what the bore and stroke is of the Anton twin cylinder paddler engine? I can't see any reference to that on their website...
QUARTZ spec (from ANTON'S website)-vertical engine is practically identical to horizontal:
Caractéristiques moteur
Course : 8 mm - STROKE
Alésage : 9 mm - BORE
Cylindrée/tour : 2 cm3 - CYLINDERS VOLUME
Pression d’utilisation : 1,5 à 3 bars - WORKING PRESSURE
Poids du moteur : 470 grs - ENGINE WEIGHT
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Hey you lot, stop tempting me. My bank balance is zilch and you show me that luverly little QUARTZ- what are you doing, trying to drive me mad?!!!
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\perleeese I surrender! Walter.
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Walter, I'm with you... too much torture for one day! That Anton Quartz is certainly a beaut little engine.
Just a thought on paddle engines though. I notice that a lot of these commercial engines are "square" cylinder engines - where stroke and bore are similar dimensions.
I've read somewhere that a paddle boat engine should ideally be a long stroke engine - e.g. 1/2 inch bore, 1 inch stroke.
I don't recall the source specifically but suspect that it was a book by Edgar Westbury and dated back to the early 1950s and I seem to recall that the reason given was that the longer stroke developed greater torque at the point of mid-stroke and was therefore more suited to paddleboat applications.
Anyone able to shed some light on this?
Cheers for now
Tony
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Your Right on Walter, My bank balance is beyond ziltch :cry: and I now have a wet towel from keeping the drool off the keyboard :wink:
Regards,
Gerald :)
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You know gents LIVE STEAM is generally rather than expensive hobby :) If QUARTZ engine seems to be very costly one you can go for PRIMAX which is definitely cheaper.
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Enough with the photos already! All of this mouthwatering eye-candy is making my bank manager's head ache!
The Primax looks interesting - I googled it but couldn't find a relevant website - any other information available?
many tks from a drooling kiwi - salivating heavily from both sides of the mouth so at least I can claim to be level headed! :D
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The Primax looks interesting - I googled it but couldn't find a relevant website - any other information available?
It is REGNER engine - http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/
And it costs nearly two times less than QUARTS - 240 EUR. I hope this can help a bit with the bank balance :wink:
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Well I have to say a big thankyou to everyone that has replied to this topic, especially to "Engineman"...
After Cheddar ceased trading, I thought there were very few sources left for ready made model steam plants, but obviously I couldn't have been more wrong!
The only problem is that I now have an even longer list of models I'd like to build, now that I know I can get the steam plant I need, and the list was LONG to start with!
To help fund the purchase of one of these engines (I haven't decided which one yet), does anyone want to buy a slightly damp keyboard? The drool should wipe off easily, but I accept no responsibility for it working or for electrocution caused by the damp.... I've seen some idiots sell used paper bags on Ebay and get a good price, so maybe I should try there? But I thought I'd give everyone here a chance first for this "Once in a lifetime" opportunity! :-)
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People have sold an air guitar and just recently (like yesterday) someone here in Aus bought a "Rare albino coco-pop" it was a rice bubble...they paid $10.75 for it too...idiots
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Hi PD’s
1) Eddy have you considered adding the newer found model engine sites to our links page?
2) I did not study French school and am having difficulty navigating around the JMC vapor site – can any one suggest if you can see a picture of their JMC 2H or JMC 5H?
PS this is sent outside of PD’s as I could not logon this morning - Derek
From: Eddy Matthews [mailto:drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 6:31 PM
To: drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk
Subject: RE: Steam engines
Well I have to say a big thankyou to everyone that has replied to this topic, especially to "Engineman"...
After Cheddar ceased trading, I thought there were very few sources left for ready made model steam plants, but obviously I couldn't have been more wrong!
(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Regards
Eddy
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Yes I was just thinking this morning that I should add them all to the links page.... I'll try to get some time tomorrow to do it.
There hasn't been any problem with the website as far as I'm aware Derek, so maybe just a glitch in the link from your end?
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2) I did not study French school and am having difficulty navigating around the JMC vapor site – can any one suggest if you can see a picture of their JMC 2H or JMC 5H?
Well, I never studied French too but I have no problem with the navigation around the JMC site :). BTW there is a very interesting article about JMC smallest (0.65cc) compound engine in the 'La Press' section.
Unfortunately they have no photos of any of their horizontal engines. But fortunately I have some :D
Regards,
Engineman
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Hi PD's & thanks Engineman for your posted snaps - do I see that engine is only mounted by the drip tray - seems a bit odd or am I missing something :?:
I have e-mailed a few questions to JMC re their 5H as it seems to slot in the middle sizing between the Saito Y2DR & the JMC Quartz & looks very interesting
PS - I really did not experience any French navigation isssue, but just when I could not see any 5H snaps thought I would ask the begging question - Derek
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Sorry should have said ANTON Quartz :shoot - Derek
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Yes, the JMC horizontal engines are very the same to the vertical ones. 5cc engine is the most powerful in the JMC range of horizontal engines and can drive a big boats easily (upto 80" or more). JMC 2cc is very the same in power capabilities to ANTON's QUARTZ engine.
PS - I really did not experience any French navigation isssue, but just when I could not see any 5H snaps thought I would ask the begging question - Derek
Well, it was joke. You are always welcome with any questions. I mean that there is a very good principle that always works well - to press all the buttons that can be pressed :). This principle helps me even with tne chinese or japanese sites.
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For our UK members, I noticed that Westbourne Model Centre http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/ are now stocking the Fabrice Bretagne "Cristal" steam engine. I'm sure they'd order others if they were asked.
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To add the list of steam engine manufacturers - www.grahamind.com
These engines are not very expensive and the vertical engine TVR1A can be easily adopted to horizontal.
Regards,
Engineman
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To add the list of steam engine manufacturers - www.grahamind.com
These engines are not very expensive and the vertical engine TVR1A can be easily adopted to horizontal.
Regards,
Engineman
Thanks Engineman, I've added it to the Links page...
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I wonder what I could use these for :) :idea: :D
(http://www.btinternet.com/~mjt60a/models/images/wilescoengine.jpg)
I got them years ago from Wilesco, they're replacement parts for one of the larger single cylinder engines (the cylinders are sealed - can't remove the pistons - so presumably, they wear out and you have to replace the whole assembly...)
We had to build simple oscillating engines in metalwork at school so I have a fair idea how to go about it but don't have a lathe at home. I figured everything else could be done using hand tools and the pillar drill, I just couldn't make the cylinders...(or the boiler, come to think of it!...)
Somehow I never got around to starting on this project but just discovered them in the bottom of the modeling box...
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Â
Hi PD’s – all of this talk of steam engines & snaps on the WEB got the better of me & today authorized 626.00 Euro to be transferred to JMC in France for a beautiful JMC3H as attached [10 borex10 stroke – listed as 3CC & naturally horizontal]
Â
The choice of the French JMC product over the French Anton Quartz was two fold – firstly the JMC construction looks more like a real engine & the Quartz was only 2 CC [& I did purchase a new Renault 12 car in 1971 which was faultless]
Â
The principal [Jean-Marc Clouph] has been very helpful over the past three days & thank goodness his written English is better than my spoken French – so from this I have purchased only the engine from JMC as they appeared not to have a vertical boiler and I am hoping the Cheddar range returns @ Stuart Turner [I was really impressed with their boilers & auto  system control systems etc]
Â
So now a few design changes for PS Decoy
Â
<if>1)      <endif>the engine will now approx ½ below & ½ above deck level but the sides of the compartment above the engine will not be planked but literally just four supporting poles for the roof = partially viewable
<if>2)Â Â Â Â Â Â <endif>my fake boiler [smoke burner] will eventually be real boiler & it too is viewable
Â
As we say in OZ, one happy little Vegemite [don’t laugh, I will now be living on Vegemite sandwiches for the next 10 years] - Derek
Â
Â
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Good on ya Derek! That JMC horizontal engine is a real little gem, please keep us posted on the changes to PS Decoy.
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Derek,
There is nothing wrong with living on vegemite sangoes, I've been doing it since I
started this obsession with things that float.
Peter Webster :-))
On 27 Sep 2005 at 3:13, Derek Warner wrote:
Â
Hi PD™s “ all of this talk of steam engines & snaps on the WEB got the better of me & today
authorized 626.00 Euro to be transferred to JMC in France for a beautiful JMC3H as attached [10
borex10 stroke “ listed as 3CC & naturally horizontal]
Â
The choice of the French JMC product over the French Anton Quartz was two fold “ firstly the
JMC construction looks more like a real engine & the Quartz was only 2 CC [& I did purchase a
new Renault 12 car in 1971 which was faultless]
Â
The principal [Jean-Marc Clouph] has been very helpful over the past three days & thank
goodness his written English is better than my spoken French “ so from this I have purchased
only the engine from JMC as they appeared not to have a vertical boiler and I am hoping the
Cheddar range returns @ Stuart Turner [I was really impressed with their boilers & auto  system
control systems etc]
Â
So now a few design changes for PS Decoy
Â
<![if !supportLists]>1)      <![endif]>the engine will now approx ½ below & ½ above deck level but
the sides of the compartment above the engine will not be planked but literally just four supporting
poles for the roof = partially viewable
<![if !supportLists]>2)Â Â Â Â Â Â <![endif]>my fake boiler [smoke burner] will eventually be real boiler & it
too is viewable
Â
As we say in OZ, one happy little Vegemite [donâ„¢t laugh, I will now be living on Vegemite
sandwiches for the next 10 years] - Derek
Â
Â
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I think that there is an underlying plot here :twisted: by our members downunder :wink: to inprove there economic statice :) by creating a world wide demand for VEGEMITE :!:
Regards,
Gerald :twisted:
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Forget the vegemite YUK!
Now Fosters is a different matter altogether! :-)
Ooops off topic!
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Do we have any PD’s in France or speak French? – reason is JMC has provided three versions of the Companies banking details for electronic transfer but each one has one or two numerals in different places & the AMEX computer will not accept it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! – Derek (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif)Â Â (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif)Â (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif)
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Vegemite sangers for the next ten years is hardly a sacrifice! It's a favourite for us Kiwis as well as those kangaroo-lovers across the ditch! But Foster's I can take or leave ... if you're talking Aussie brews then gimme an ice-cold Hahn Premium or Coopers Premium any day.
Derek, your JMC looks very impressive. Is that a Stevenson reversing linkage?
You've mentioned the modifications to Decoy but I'm wondering about the additional weight of boiler, displacement oiler, engine and condenser. Will you be able to accomodate that extra weight? :thinking
If you get no joy from Stuart Models on the horizontal boilers (they told me a month or more ago that they've been pretty much overwhelmed since taking on the Cheddar business) then you might want to investigate Lynx Model Works www.lynxmodelworks.co.uk
The key contact is John Clarke - his business specialises in working scale steam, particularly for model railway enthusiasts and to a lesser extent marine models as well. Forgive the plug, but... John's presently doing some work for me - he's tidying up a Reeves Borderer twin cylinder engine for me and he's just built me a coal fired vertical boiler, both destined for a 54 inch clinker built steam pinnace I've been working on (when not immersed in paddlers - heresy I know!) Heckuva nice guy and very approachable.
Usual story though - mortgage the house and promise the first born son in part-payment!!!
Do keep us up with the developments.
cheers
Tony
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Yes, Derek I speak French. How can I help?
PJ
Victoria, BC Canada
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Hi PD's - answers in order
Tony
a) - James Boag produce an elixa in that little island just south of Victoria - {called Tasmania} & the premium version could be Australias best
b) - Stevensons reversing gear? - 30 years ago we were taught that the said Mr Stevenson did not invent it - there is no smoke or mirrors, just variations on a theme with eccentrics being reversed via an arc which is centered of the crank axis - Eddys [MH&B great find] has another variation on the same theme with the fulcrum [lever] rotating a geared section to produce the same reversal effect
c) - extra weight with steam components, no problem - extra ballast will still be required
d) - coal fired model marine boiler? - do you have very, very small people to reload the boiler when the vessel is on the opposite side of the pond? - or have you been part taking in TOO much NZ draft?
PJ
e) - thanks for the kind offer - however have hopefully sorted the minor communication glitch between JMC/myself + AMEX today
regards - Derek :coffee - PS - I have just thrown this in as a RED HERRING as I don't usually drink coffee @ this time of day
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Tony, Taken from the October Marine Modelling International mag - does this help?
Barrie
CHEDDAR VALLEY STEAM
Many MMI readers will be familiar with Tim Taschimowitz as Cheddar Models' senior boilermaker. Due to the closure of Cheddar Models Tim has decided to set up his own copper boiler making business, Cheddar Valley Steam.
Tim has twenty-five years of professional boiler making expertise and has made boilers for both the trade and private customers, home and abroad, over the years. He uses the highest quality materials and his boilers are renowned to be second to none. During the past 25 years he has built up a worldwide reputation of his own and it is this that has paved the way for this exciting new venture.
If you would like any more information or a no obligation quotation for your copper boiler needs please do not hesitate to telephone Cheddar Valley Steam on 07789 681977 or Email: Cheddarvalleysteam@hotmail. co. uk, or write to Cheddar Valley Steam, Unit 4, Castle Mills Industrial Estate, Biddisham, Somerset BS26 2RH.
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Many thanks for the contact Barrie. We have a few steam enthusiasts in the club who will be delighted to have this info.
As for Mr Warner and his comments re midget stokers ... only if they are genuine 1:6 scale and non-union labour! :P
Most of the sailing will be on our local pond, Derek, not the ditch that separates NZ and Oz. I should get a good 20-30 minutes of steam from the boiler, and will need to bring the model back in at that stage, not only to stoke up the fire, but also to replenish the water supply. As long as I am disciplined about raising a full head of steam before sailing and watch my times I should be fine.
However to put your worried mind at rest - our club models are seldom more than 10-15 metres from shore and there's always a rescue tug to hand.
Using coal is not as crazy as it sounds tho'... for example, back in the 1980's William Mowll built an detailed working model of HMS Warrior of 1860, to 1:48 scale. The model was built complete with a functioning steam plant under the decks, including a coal fired Scotch boiler.
The reasoning behind my purchase is that for a few years now we've swapped notes on Paddleducks about getting realistic looking smoke from our funnels - what more appropriate way than to run a boiler on coal! Then there's the smell of coal smoke and oil on a clear wintery day...
And if it all turns to custard and run times/recoaling prove to be major hassles then the boiler can be converted to run on gas by swapping out the grate for a ceramic burner.
Tony
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Hi PD’s – searching via the WEB, clearly ACS Engineering are the most competitive in steam boiler & components in what appears near equal design & quality – the owner Sandy Campbell has come back with air parcel post costs a few suggestions [like wait until the JMC engine arrives to determine the actual tube size] & then I can place the order on ASC for the boiler & accessories
Â
The attachment here is taken from the JMC site and clearly shows a gas regulator sensing steam pressure & controlling gas flow to the burner – I am assuming that this is a luxury similar to the Cheddar automatic boiler control which in 2001 sold in Australia for $685.00 AUD just for the regulator
Â
So if Tony plans to stoke the boiler with coal then get 15 minutes running time, I hope to be able to throttle the gas flow from the rudimentary gas isolation valve & hope I get a similar run time – three day longweekend here in OZ & no that was not a spelling mistake LONGWEEKEND is one word south of the equator – Derek
Â
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I am assuming that this is a luxury similar to the Cheddar automatic boiler control which in 2001 sold in Australia for $685.00 AUD just for the regulator
Nope Derek, you're not right yet. CHEDDAR's ABC system is a more complicated one with electric sensors, servos etc. which controls the gas flow and the water level.
This particular one is also a sort of a control system with a simple single-membrane gas attenuator. BTW ANTON has a wide range of gas attenuators (including more 'accurate' bi-membrane type) and automatic shut-off valves. John Hemmens also produces membrane-type gas attenuator.
It is very interesting to know more about the ACS company as you contact to them :) . What about their progress with the anonced slide-valve engines?
Regards,
Engineman
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Hi PD's & Engineman - here is some information from Sandy Campbell of ACS
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
From: ACSengineering [mailto:acs-engineering@wargyll.fsnet.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2005 12:17 AM
To: Derek Warner
Subject: PS Decoy and ACS stuff
"Gud Day Mate,
Just been looking at the Paddleducks web site, lots of interesting stuff, so will be re-visiting it again soon.
Have you now got shares in the VEGEMITE factory? He! He!.
I will get organised and set up a reciprocal link on the ACS site in the very near future, meanwhile, if you are inclined, you can tell 'ENGINEMAN' that the slide valve engines, or at least the 'MAMBA' should, hopefully, be available early in the New Year, development of all new products, unfortunately, has been slowed down quite a lot due to increased workload, following the demise of 'Cheddar'. (Not that I am complaining of course, but, never the less, still a sad happening.)"
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
As I have mentioned the JMC3H engine is ordered for PS Decoy but all other steam components will be ACS - one of the principal reasons for this decision is that [100 odd years ago] Australia adopted the British fired boiler code so the ACS boiler certificate will be valid for twelve months from manufacture, however before anyone reminds me that with my rate of build time available it may need re-validation prior to first sailing
Appears the employees at ACS get it pretty good as on special days they have their morning cup of tea & Vegimite sandwich outside & watch the real PS Waverly glide past :D - Derek
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Hi 'derekwarner_decoy',
Thank you very much for your assistance with ASC-Engineering.
I am also have in mind to purchase something from the JMC (to be more exact - the compound engine which is looking pretty curious for me).
BTW I had in plans to visit the ACS-Engineering personally during my visit to Scotland but due to my tough schedule all these plans failed :( .
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Engineman - reading between the lines from your postings I sense an amount of steam experience :?: :?:
I am sure the few PD's currently dabbling into steam [including me] would appreciate any comment you have to offer like :-
a) are gas regulators necessary? - I am sure they are benificial but am unsure of the relationship between "necessary & benificial"
b) what are the additional lagged red & black lines on Eddies MH&B unit?
the list could go "on & on" - remember that one Tony by your cousin NZ Finn brothers? - :music - Derek
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Engineman - reading between the lines from your postings I sense an amount of steam experience :?: :?:
Well, I can't say about myself to be a great specialist in steam thou I am a power engineer :) Yes, I have some experience not only in using or assembling but also in making of <model> steam plants of my own design. Hope that my modest steam experience may have some use for PD's community that I am so pleased to join in.
I am sure the few PD's currently dabbling into steam [including me] would appreciate any comment you have to offer like :-
a) are gas regulators necessary? - I am sure they are benificial but am unsure of the relationship between "necessary & benificial"
I can't say that the use of gas regulators is essential but it helps to save the gas/boiler water and as a result extends the running time. Using a gas regulator you can find a better balance between reliability and complexity of the power plant in the whole rather than using a feed pump.
b) what are the additional lagged red & black lines on Eddies MH&B unit?
It is not clear for me yet what are these lines that you mean. Please, mark them with arrows and I will try to explain what is what. It's a very interesting power plant with a feed pump what is not typical for MH&B units.
Regards,
Engineman
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From: Derek Warner [mailto:dlwarner@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 4:30 PM
To: 'drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk'
Subject: Steam engines
Â
Â
Engineman – in the attachment HM&B engine .bmp I have pointed the two components in question
Â
[1) to the HP globe valve situated close to [on top] of the piston pump for make up water – I am not sure of purpose this valve
[2] to the bypass around the steam throttle valve – regards Derek
Â
Quote:
b) what are the additional lagged red & black lines on Eddies MH&B unit?
It is not clear for me yet what are these lines that you mean. Please, mark them with arrows and I will try to explain what is what. It's a very interesting power plant with a feed pump what is not typical for MH&B units.
Regards,
Engineman
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Hi PD's - looks like Vegemite now for twenty years as this morning I used PALPAY to electronically TFX my hard earned AUD$ to GBD pounds to ACS Engineering for the new boiler & bits + pieces
So any PD considering steam in the future, do your self a favour & pen a note to Sandy Campbell @ ACS
As I have mentioned the product is most competatively priced but of comperable or equal design/quality to any on the world market AND you get to talk with a real person who will & can answer real steam questions & even suggesting less expensive alternatives
Another point [even though Sandy is a Scot], his sence of humor is boundless, like 1/2 way through his semi technical response to me about feeding boilers, Sandy starts talking about Tony's 1/10 scale boiler room people who apart from keeping the coal bunkers up could also empty the condenser waste oil
I give ACS a :trophy & wish Sandy good health :beer - Derek
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That's the best form of advertising Derek - Personal recommendation!
From my contact with Sandy at ACS Engineering I can only endorse everything that Derek has said - He was so pleased that we'd put a link to his site here on Paddleducks that he emailed me immediately to ask if he could return the favour, and the PD site is now on his links page. Thanks Sandy!
How many other manufacturers have taken the time to do that? I can tell you - NONE!
I'm eagerly awaiting details of his twin cylinder slide valve engine which he hopes to have in production soon. Similar engines are available, but I know where my order will be placed! Other manufacturers would do well to take a leaf out of Sandy's book and take the time to really communicate with their customers.
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Sandy starts talking about Tony's 1/10 scale boiler room people who apart from keeping the coal bunkers up could also empty the condenser waste oil
:lol:
Now there's a thought! If only I could get their little hands to operate the blow down valve and man the water pump I could have a fully automated pinnace!
Amen to your comments about manufacturers who communicate, and boo hiss to those who don't . Regrettably I've been trying to get a bit of info from a certain proprietor of a "prop shop" in the UK about props and shafts (heresy on this website I know, mea culpa) but a month to reply to an email?!!! :rant
Makes you wonder how some businesses manage to survive if that's how they treat their customers :(
Looking forward to your progress reports derek - good luck.
Tony
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If its the supplier I'm thinking of, you'll be lucky to get a reply at all ! I sent two mails, one over 12 months ago, one earlier this year, and I'm still waiting. I did of course buy my prop from someone else, who took the time to call me to verify my requirements.
Barrie
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Hello all, as has been said, Props on a paddler site !! :oops: I'd agree about the communication point, I am in a similar position to Barrie and likewise will only buy from people who are helpful and informative even when I ask some dumb questions. Long live good sevice, Achieved by us supporting those who give and telling of those who do not.
Cheers
Jim
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Thought It was about time to say a big thank you, to you all for the nice things you have been saying about me, :o and to say Hi to you all.
What do you mean Derek?... [even though Sandy is a Scot], All us Scotsmen have a great sense of humour, just ask Red_Hamish.
Only a fellow Aberdonian could take the rank of PURSER....well done.
How is the Silver City?..I have not been over for about 8 years and I didn't think much about what they have done to it in some parts....:cry:
I will try to keep up with you all...If people in OZ don't have me building to many boilers...!!! :twisted:
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Hi Sandy,
Nice to have you aboard.... Of course the next question has to be when are you going to produce a nice two or three cylinder diagonal paddler engine? :-) A three cylinder would be my choice.
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What about a steam engine for the sternwheelers - that seems to be a completely untapped market.
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Hi PD's - the JMC3H turned up yesterday & I must give credit where credit is due, the design, construction & finish of the JMC product is supurb - four sealed ball bearings in the crank shaft plus one center oilable journal
ACS are progressing [well maybe thinking of starting the boiler & bits ] as long as Sandy dosn't spend too much time in meetings :gather - or :vacat - sitting outside his office by the Clyde waiting for PS Waverly to pass by!! ------- but again it is great as Sandy has penned a simple note today confirming a few minor mods to the condensor will be OK
On the other side of the coin, I have had no response from another British manufacturer re gas bottle & regulator [after four e-mails]
I have been scrounging through an industrial scrap merchant shelves trying to find some 20 year old baby sized gear sets from mechanical type computers as used in military range finders - but to no success
Many early Australian paddlers had chain drive & @ 1:25 scale for PS Decoy the "Stock Drive Product" from USA roller chain @ 0.1475" pitch comes in at just under 4" pitch so the scale size is fine - I may have to bite the bullet & order some of that 0.1475" pitch roller chain & a 10:1 pinion set
The final drive will be exposed or viewable & the chain version would look fine but I am still not happy with chain due to the noise - the "Stock Drive Product" gear sets would be much quieter but look like 21 st century gears so maybe more :thinking is required - Derek
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I know someone who's selling, I think it's a Marshall and Sons, fully restored 16hp steam engine...guess that would be slightly to big for your models though....oh well I was interested...wish I had ten thousand smackers!
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What about a steam engine for the sternwheelers - that seems to be a completely untapped market.
Hey! PD's
Now that's 'weird'! nee 'SPOOKY' only a couple of days ago I came accross a line drawing of a 'Western Rivers Steamboat' sternwheel engine with poppet valves on inlet and outlet, operated by levers. This engine has a very long stroke (around 6:1 bore stroke ratio) and I had the very same thought as Tony. So I put the info in my 'possible future engines' folder for more thought later.
Perhaps there is more to this 'KING TUT' thing than we though eh?
must go...got an OZ boiler to build.... tricky, with assembly fixtures designed for the Northern Hemisphere.....now if only I can get that silver solder to flow uphill. :rant
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
Nice to have you aboard.... Of course the next question has to be when are you going to produce a nice two or three cylinder diagonal paddler engine? :-) A three cylinder would be my choice.
Hi Eddy....The questions I have to ask in return are: - 'HOW MANY DO YOU WANT TO PURCHASE?' and 'DO YOU WANT SINGLE OR TRIPLE EXPANSION SIR ?'
Anyway....nice to be aboard...and thanks for the welcome. :D
sandy
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Hi Eddy....The questions I have to ask in return are: - 'HOW MANY DO YOU WANT TO PURCHASE?' and 'DO YOU WANT SINGLE OR TRIPLE EXPANSION SIR ?'
sandy
Just the one for now - but if the fleet increases, who knows? :-)
Wouldn't a triple expansion be absolutely gorgeous! I'd certainly sell a kidney or two to purchase one! Even a single expansion would be almost as nice!
As a few people on here know, I have plans for the Glen Sannox at 1:48 scale (thanks to Walter Snowdon) which gives a model of about 67" length, and a 3 cylinder diagonal engine would just be delightful if I could find one!
But as it's almost certainly a none starter from a commercial point of view I'll probably just have to keep dreaming :-(
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Hi PD’s - Sandy – when you finally finish all of the balance of the export boiler orders, would it be possible to stamp & code my boiler order as PSDECOY, then followed by what ever numerical reference is required on your ACS Certificate?
Â
During earlier years I found plain old 95% BORAX silver soldering flux paste allowed & flowed & soldered both up hill & down dale by what appeared as capillary action – are you sure Tony’s export 1/10 scale staff [non Union labor] to your factory have not ordered that useless BLUE plastic FLUX coated  S/S sticks?
Â
If this is the case, I could only suggest you contact Donagle Police to have them EXPORTED back to Tony in NZ - Derek
Â
Â
From: sandy_ACS [mailto:drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2005 6:29 PM
To: drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk
Subject: RE: Steam engines
Â
Khephre wrote:
What about a steam engine for the sternwheelers - that seems to be a completely untapped market.
Hey! PD's
Now that's 'weird'! nee 'SPOOKY' only a couple of days ago I came accross a line drawing of a 'Western Rivers Steamboat' sternwheel engine with poppet valves on inlet and outlet, operated by levers. This engine has a very long stroke (around 6:1 bore stroke ratio) and I had the very same thought as Tony. So I put the info in my 'possible future engines' folder for more thought later.
Perhaps there is more to this 'KING TUT' thing than we though eh?
must go...got an OZ boiler to build.... tricky, with assembly fixtures designed for the Northern Hemisphere.....now if only I can get that silver solder to flow uphill. (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/ranting2.gif)
Sandy <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>
If you want a STANDARD item I will have to charge you extra!!
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... only a couple of days ago I came accross a line drawing of a 'Western Rivers Steamboat' sternwheel engine with poppet valves on inlet and outlet, operated by levers. This engine has a very long stroke (around 6:1 bore stroke ratio) and I had the very same thought as Tony. So I put the info in my 'possible future engines' folder for more thought later.
Don't throw that thought away Sandy.
Once I get a bit more headway on my existing ten year's work of projects I'd like to explore this further. Somewhere on the twenty year plan is a riverboat along the lines of the Thomas A Edison ...
I'm sure we could squeeze a sternwheel engine and boiler out of the pocketbook and into the model ...
Tony
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Hi Eddy....The questions I have to ask in return are: - 'HOW MANY DO YOU WANT TO PURCHASE?' and 'DO YOU WANT SINGLE OR TRIPLE EXPANSION SIR ?'
sandy
Just the one for now - but if the fleet increases, who knows? :-)
Wouldn't a triple expansion be absolutely gorgeous! I'd certainly sell a kidney or two to purchase one! Even a single expansion would be almost as nice!
As a few people on here know, I have plans for the Glen Sannox at 1:48 scale (thanks to Walter Snowdon) which gives a model of about 67" length, and a 3 cylinder diagonal engine would just be delightful if I could find one!
But as it's almost certainly a none starter from a commercial point of view I'll probably just have to keep dreaming :-(
Hi Eddy,
Just thought I would check in, whilst having my lunch....the Waverly has gone now....He He. :)
Yes, a triple expansion would indeed be something special, but, as you say, not really a practical commercial proposition, at least not for mass production.
And it would be difficult, although not impossible, to arrange for the required vaccuum pump in the exhaust system and also the R/C control for starting the thing. On the puffer (VIC 32), which has a 2 cylinder double expansion engine) a system of bypass valves are built in to the start loop to give a whiff of high pressure steam to both cylinders to get over the dead spots.
A three cylinder single expansion engine would be an easier option and although possibly not for mass production, I am open to most of the usual forms of bribery for a possible one off.
Not to keen on kidney's though, How about a liver and 3 legs?
Keep dreaming. :wink: sandy
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Hi Pd's,
Ok Tony Iwill keep the info to hand, you never know!!! 8)
Anyhow guys, Ive cracked the OZ silver soldering thing...simple really..just mix Vegimite with the Amber Necter in equal proportions and apply as flux...then use the solder stick the other way round and...bingo.
Now that only leaves the problem of the assembly fixtures being the wrong way up......Perhaps Derek won't notice the burner being at the top, with the funnel sticking out the bottom...especially if I tell him it's a special IRISH STEALTH version...LOW smoke emissions...Well the ship is PS Decoy!! :) :) :wink: :wink:
As for markings on the boiler Derek...No problem....won't make any more steam than normal but hey.....How about I add the entire works of James Joyce, or at least 'Finnigan's Wake'...that should give the officials a few problems to decipher.
Keep happy :D :D :D .
Sandy
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Hi PD's - Sandy - just knowing the boiler is part IRISH brings a warm feeling to my heart and NO I am not selling that [anyway it's probably part pickeled :?: :oops ]
One point, :thinking could the relief valve bet set at the ACS standard 3 Bar please - Derek
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Hi PD’s – had the pleasure of five hours in the workshop this Saturday morning & the preliminary result [everything below the green engine base] is the supporting structure called the [ENTABALATURE] for the JMC3H engine
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For rigidity, I will plan to add a  horizontal stiffener just under the crank shaft, athwart ships to the hull frames on either side to eliminate the natural torque or twisting associated with simple D/A steam engines – Derek
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A nicely done job Derek....
Is the frame mounted into the model as you've shown it in the photo? I assume it's so the engine lines up with the paddleshaft? Or is the engine fitted vertically with the cylinders at the bottom?
If my first suggestion is correct, what about the weight with the engine mounted so high, and it's effect on the models stability?
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Hi PD's & first please let me correct yesterdays blunder :oops - the JMC3H is a single acting twin cylinder engine with reversing gear - she is not D/A as the Australian owner stated - only explanation is the extra solderig flux fumes must cause the mind to distort things
Thanks Eddie - the Irish answer to your questions would be no, yes & possibly I don't understand the last question so I had better clarify
1) the cylinder axis will be horizontal & on near deck level
2) I have taken a leaf from othe PD's about keeping components modular
so the plan is to have the steam regulator & servo with the reversing servo under the engine frame with the lubricator at engine level for access, but by disconnecting three steam lines & two servo cable sets I can remove the whole box & dice out in one lift
3) the crank shaft is AFT with a chain drive FWD to the paddle wheel axis
4) I understand your point about top heavy, but even with the vertical boiler & engine placement, Decoy will still need approx 3kg of additional lead shot in the bildge
Talking about boilers!! - Sandy from ACS interrupted his Saturday afternoon game of CROQUETTE on the green overlooking the Clyde + six pints @ the local :beer to pen an e-mail to me asking if I knew the British Official number for PS Decoy, as he thought it appropriate the model boiler ACS are producing bears the same stamping and certificate number - unbelievable :bravo and :terrific - Derek
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Thanks for the reply Derek, even though I didn't explain things very well (it's difficult sometimes putting things into pure text!), you've managed to answer all my questions!
Once you have the rest of the gear from Sandy it will be time to start saving for the bottle of champagne ready for the official launch! I for one cannot wait to see PS Decoy on the water!
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Hi PD's & here is a question for Stuart [Badger] of the Reliant fame
:lol: - not sure Stuart if you have kept up with the latest postings, but I have swallowed the anchor & purchased a 3 CC horizontal steam engine & a boiler package
:?: my question to you is could you tell [us/me & the PD's] a little more on the chain reduction [sprockets & chain on the Olde Trafford] as installed
thanks & regards Derek
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Hi PD's - Steam reversing gear :?: :?: - whilst I understand the geometry involved with the Stephensons/Stevensons reversing gear linkage to 'reverse the rotation of my engine', I am at a loss to understand the best way to actuate it via R/C servo- I considered posting a translated to French question to the manufacturer, but reflected that I may as well eat garlic snails & the like [slugs] as get a resonse :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
In the reversing gear triangle or quadrant, the relationship between the length of chord to arc appears as 22mm : 18 mm on my JMC3H or a ratio of 1.222:1 [as best measured on a Sunday afternoon after Church & a few :coffee 's]
I could install a compound adjustment [two X turn buckles] in the servo linkage to accurately position the reversing quadrant centers & also limit the movement to 18 mm +zero to -zero, but this seems crazy & could place a full load on the servo if the + to - signal drifted :?: :?: :?:
I there any way to get like a flip/flop servo action which would allow the reversing gear to be sent to the desired position then relax the Tx left stick to return to central neutral without the Stevensons reversing gear linkage moving :idea: :idea:
I'am realising that driving/piloting/manovering a steam engined vessel is a little different to an electric powered vessel as with this steam version both FWD & REVERSE will require the Tx stick pushed in the same direction - any comments greatly appreciated - Derek
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Hi PD's - Steam reversing gear :?: :?: - whilst I understand the geometry involved with the Stephensons/Stevensons reversing gear linkage to 'reverse the rotation of my engine', I am at a loss to understand the best way to actuate it via R/C servo- I considered posting a translated to French question to the manufacturer, but reflected that I may as well eat garlic snails & the like [slugs] as get a resonse :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
In the reversing gear triangle or quadrant, the relationship between the length of chord to arc appears as 22mm : 18 mm on my JMC3H or a ratio of 1.222:1 [as best measured on a Sunday afternoon after Church & a few :coffee 's]
I could install a compound adjustment [two X turn buckles] in the servo linkage to accurately position the reversing quadrant centers & also limit the movement to 18 mm +zero to -zero, but this seems crazy & could place a full load on the servo if the + to - signal drifted :?: :?: :?:
I there any way to get like a flip/flop servo action which would allow the reversing gear to be sent to the desired position then relax the Tx left stick to return to central neutral without the Stevensons reversing gear linkage moving :idea: :idea:
I'am realising that driving/piloting/manovering a steam engined vessel is a little different to an electric powered vessel as with this steam version both FWD & REVERSE will require the Tx stick pushed in the same direction - any comments greatly appreciated - Derek
:post :hmmm
Hi PD's...Oh the joys of Stephensons reversing gear.....first things first Derek...I would suggest that you use a spare, fully proportional, channel to effect your reversing gear installation...this will allow you to exploit one of the better features...Namely 'NOTCHING UP' which, if you didn't already know, is the term used for adjusting the valve timing between fully open position (maximum valve travel, at the outer end of the quadrant) and the mid-gear position (centre of the quadrant, where the only movement of the valve should be to cover the lap and lead for the valve)
Once your engine is up to speed, and with model running in the water, you can 'NOTCH UP' the forward (or reverse, if that's the way you are going) to a position closer to the centre of the quadrant; this will change the cut off point ( the point in the valve travel where the steam port closes) and the engine will continue to run using the expansion of the steam already in the cylinder to complete its stroke. This will reduce the amount of steam used overall. Model steam Locomotives, and full size engines (including marine engines) for that matter, use this for the same reasons.
A couple of things to note, when setting up your installation.
1. When setting the travel for the 'Full forward' and 'Full reverse' positions of the quadrant, be sure that you do not go to far....the sliding die block in the quadrant (the one connected to the valve spindle) should not be allowed to go to the full extreme of the quadrant arc....so set for about 95% of available travel....this will allow for any 'DIE SLIP' which is common on Stephensons gear and will not allow the gear to go to far, posibly jamming the die.
2. For servo operation...and to take care of any signal deviation...it is a good plan to fit the valve gear pushrod with a device called a servo saver...See attached sketch...these are reasonably easily made...but I believe a similar item is now available from most good model shops.
I know of no method which can perform a flip=flop action for you to be able to return the stick to the centre...this would automatically alter the servo pulse width and, even of you could arrange it mechanically...you would then get major conflict in your receiver decoder...which would be trying to bring the servo back to centre.
Finally...it might pay you to use a servo with metal gears, rather than the plastic ones.
Hope this is of some help.
BTW....it's no good using an ICBM to try flying here...we have an excellent AWAX early warning system here in the UK (we call it EARWAX).
So you will just get a Polaris up your........ vee hav vays of keeping you out...... :nose :hehe :hehe :music
Have fun.
Sandy
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Hi PD's & thanks Sandy for your comments re the Stephensons reversing link - this evening I have penned a note to the Contact Officer for a 4" gauge model steam rail group in Wollongong NSW
So I propose to leave this posting open & will get back when I have spoken to somone from that group - Derek :)
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Hi PD’s & look what turned up today – the boiler kit – absolutely superb Sandy & thankyou!
Â
One or two or the more astute PD’s will realize that my basic line Drawing [dated 30/10/2000] of PS Decoy behind the model is shown on its voyage going down toward the equator, where as you will note that I have built the model facing the equator – well makes sense to me anyway
Â
Another point is all of the other bits & pieces that ACS have manufactured as shown on the STDB side near where the paddle box will be will actually reside down stairs & under the engine piped up with little bits of bent copper tube etc so will not be all that visible in YEARS to come – yes my good wife Karina suggests they could build another Sydney harbor bridge in less time that it will take me to finish Decoy!!
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PS Decoy was described as being a HOTBOX of an engine room, so I will use a little extra building license & not enclose the lower or upper walls above the engine, the boiler room on the real PS Decoy was open on three sides so the intention is to maximize the viewing angles of both engine & boiler
Â
Interestingly, the parcel had been open by Customs between Scotland & OZ, as the base of the box parcel had different colored tape & a little sticker confirming an Australian Customs inspection had been performed
Â
Sandy – all of the items on the manifest Invoice were received in perfect order, but the intended stick of high temperature COMSOL solder has vanished – I am not sure if you keep up with Australian politics, but none other than Phillip Ruddock MP is responsible for Customs & Excise so I have penned a e-mail communication to his office demanding a Royal Commission into the investigation of my missing stick of COMSOL HT solder - Derek
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Now that's really a pretty picture Derek. For all his sporran twiddling and emoticon overload that Sandy chappie's no slouch at what he does!
You must feel like a proud new dad all over again! I can't wait to see Decoy all plumbed up and steaming.
well done gents
Tony
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Will you have it ready for the weekend Derek :?: :P :P :?:
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Hi PD's
Tony - thanks for the comment but the real credit goes between the respective manufacturers "JMC & ACS" & I am pleased with the early end result & on the strength of seeing the new equipment loosely placed in Decoys hull I have rewarded myself with a :beer or two & spent the next two hours considering best location/alignment & placement of the bits & pieces
KiWi Modeler - I will guarantee a finish before "A" weekend, but cannot guarantee which one that will be :?: :?: :?: :?: - Derek
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Sandy – all of the items on the manifest Invoice were received in perfect order, but the intended stick of high temperature COMSOL solder has vanished
:( :( :oops
Hi PD's....Derek...Where on earth did you get that load of ballast from...that's not the boiler I sent...FUNNELS ON THE WRONG END :twisted: :wink:
Sorry cobber...but in the rush to get it into the mail system I ommited to include the COMSOL...I can send it to you under separate cover if it is urgent...or can wait to see if you require any final bits and pieces, and include it with them.
Let me know..... :respect :respect2
I am pleased that the consignment arrived safely, and intact, and I am pleased that you are happy with it, I am also impressed with the shipping speed, despite Customs. I thought it would take a little longer.
Your model looks superb, and the engine room is beginning to look busy, with not a lot of spare room for all the bits.
I agree that you should keep the sides of the engineroom as open as possible, as the burner will require plenty of fresh air and, since the whole lot will get quite hot in service...bit like me really :D :D ...lots of ventilation is a must.
Keep up the great work my friend.
Best regards.
Sandy
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Hi PD's- this is the record & we have 895 view's & 75 replies to date re Drive Systems/SubSection... steam :?: :?: Great but I am sure that the recent technical comment offered has provided much interest
Sandy - as Karina has noted I will weeks & weeks to complete the 'tubing' so after I do the tube sets in 1/16" brass wire dummy sets I will e-mail post over a list of extra requirements which may be 1 x 5/32" isolation valve & then you can add it to the extra lubricator/condenser mods already provided etc & just do an extra PAYPAL transaction etc & include the cost of a bloody stick of COMSOL HT solder
PD's - the reason I post these points on PD's [as between a supplier & the consumeretc ] is to simply confirm great business ethic between differing parties on different continents - Derek :)
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Hi PD's- this is the record & we have 895 view's & 75 replies to date re Drive Systems/SubSection... steam :?: :?: Great but I am sure that the recent technical comment offered has provided much interest
Sandy - as Karina has noted I will weeks & weeks to complete the 'tubing' so after I do the tube sets in 1/16" brass wire dummy sets I will e-mail post over a list of extra requirements which may be 1 x 5/32" isolation valve & then you can add it to the extra lubricator/condenser mods already provided etc & just do an extra PAYPAL transaction etc & include the cost of a bloody stick of COMSOL HT solder
PD's - the reason I post these points on PD's [as between a supplier & the consumeretc ] is to simply confirm great business ethic between differing parties on different continents - Derek :)
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :D
Hi PD's....Make that 77 replies..however, the 77th is only visible to Karina...but basically say's.. GET A GRIP ON THE OLD GEEZER...NO not that sort of a grip :!: :oops :shhh ...he should be so lucky... :music :music and keep him away from the church car boot sales....and make him slave without food, or Vegimite, for a month, so we can all get a good look at a finished model....
:hehe :hehe :music :music
No worries Derek, I'll keep the Comsol Stick handy, ready for your next shipment.
:wink: :wink:
I appreciate the posting of satisfaction between parties...It makes good business sense...Thanks.
Keep smiling. :D :D :D :D
regards.
Sandy.
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:shock: :shock: :shock: - Sorry all, looks like Sandy dosn't know the truth - Church sales are all done on pew's, not in second hand car boots,
Derek :angel :angel
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Hi PD's - Sandy - PS Decoy is all wood - planked hull & deck & the new upper structure will be the same - originally I planned to plank the boiler major diameter but prefer the black boiler casing with the brass bands & it looks great [as does the chimney & bands]
I will have deck lever & upper deck level fitted with brass handrails to keep the little people from falling in - I will only need to access the boiler room to light the burner, but not to extinguish as the gas container valve will be in the FWD hold
So on a rough scale of 1 to 10, will not be say 9/10ths of nothing in terms of thermal loss due to not having the wooden lagging as compared to installing the lagging? or maybe 30 seconds less steaming time per boiler?
Oh BTW I have a twenty year old roll of the finest woven/platted/braided 1 mm diameter pure cotton string for the pipe lagging - Derek :ohno I think in keeping with last evenings celebration I may have had one or two too many cups of :coffee
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Hi Derek,
It looks great :D :D be sure to post the maiden voyage.
Sandy I have been asked by some I have been relating the goings on her to if you had to stand on your head when you built this boiler to get the fittings to come out right for down under :?: and were you wearing Regimental Dress when you did :oops: :oops:
Regards,
Gerald :wink:
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:P :P :D :D
Sandy I have been asked by some I have been relating the goings on her to if you had to stand on your head when you built this boiler to get the fittings to come out right for down under and were you wearing Regimental Dress when you did
:wink: :wink:
Hi PD's...Gerald..I certainly did, and I certainly was...Not easy soldering that way up, especially when you have a big SPORRAN...(at least I think it was!!!)......dangling in front of your face.... :hehe :hehe ...I think I got all the bits the right way up.. but I don't suppose D.W will notice since I am sure he doesn't know Up from Down or Port from right and Stbd from left....
to much Vegimite and :beer :mrgreen: :?
He will probably fill it with warm water, forget to light the burner, get no steam and claim it was the wrong sort of water.... :clap2 :thinking :trophy
It's all good for a laugh Gerald. :music :music :hehe :great
Keep smiling.
Sandy
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Hello all, I thought that church sales days were only held on a "pews"day :lol:
cheers
Jim
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Hi PD’s – Sandy – I have attached a snap of my new condenser [see I have spelt it correctly in this line!!] – now I know I asked for the extra screw on plug in the top plate & yes that is clearly shown as being supplied thank you, but why do I get two horizontal incoming oily steam inlets & on different elevations in height?
Â
Is this if I take Decoy into the far far far southern ocean I should use the higher inlet due to lower atmospheric pressure? - or is it more to do with say a left hand=PORT or right hand side=STDB installation?, so if the latter is correct I should cut & plug the non required pipe or just let the oily steam exit the non used pipe & fill the bilge? as extra ballast
Â
When I decide the connection side I will remember PORT=RED or and STARBOARD=GREEN & provide colored light above the condenser below decks so that the 1/25 scale crew can drain the bl…..dy thing cause I cannot get my hands in there
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Oh BTY1) -  do you have any comment about “to insulate the boiler/not to insulate the boiler†with wooden planks that is? – yesterday’s posting  - (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
Oh BTY2) - Â is tomorrow 11/11 not the release date of Model Boats in UK?
Oh BTY3) – does not the edition of the said publication provide a review of a certain engine & boiler kit?
Â
Derek
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Hi PD’s – Sandy – I have attached a snap of my new condenser [see I have spelt it correctly in this line!!] – now I know I asked for the extra screw on plug in the top plate & yes that is clearly shown as being supplied thank you, but why do I get two horizontal incoming oily steam inlets & on different elevations in height?
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Is this if I take Decoy into the far far far southern ocean I should use the higher inlet due to lower atmospheric pressure? - or is it more to do with say a left hand=PORT or right hand side=STDB installation?, so if the latter is correct I should cut & plug the non required pipe or just let the oily steam exit the non used pipe & fill the bilge? as extra ballast
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When I decide the connection side I will remember PORT=RED or and STARBOARD=GREEN & provide colored light above the condenser below decks so that the 1/25 scale crew can drain the bl…..dy thing cause I cannot get my hands in there
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Oh BTY1) -  do you have any comment about “to insulate the boiler/not to insulate the boiler†with wooden planks that is? – yesterday’s posting  - (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
Oh BTY2) - Â is tomorrow 11/11 not the release date of Model Boats in UK?
Oh BTY3) – does not the edition of the said publication provide a review of a certain engine & boiler kit?
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Derek
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:hmmm :hmph :nose
Hi PD's...OK.....so the lad does know his Port from his Stbd and his Red from his Green.....just checking......Pitty he can't remember what he ordered though... :hehe :music :nose
Derek...the two inlets are for use on HIGH days..and LOW days...I will leave you to figure out which one is used for which...... :hehe :hehe :towel
I am sure the ather PD's will back me up on this one :respect :respect2
But several 1000 posts ago...someone asked about draining the lubricator into the condenser...THE OTHER PIPE IS FOR THIS.....the smaller (diameter) of the two is for the discharge from the lubricator...what you will have to conekt wiv a bit of tube and a stop valve...I placed it at a high level cos if it were down the bottom, then the entire contents would be blown out of the funnel outlet when you kracked the said steam valve open.... :yeah :terrific :oops
As for boiler lagging...with the wood supplied....It looks good in an open launch, but is only marginal in the amount of extra insulation it provides, unless you add a layer of thermal insulation (kaowool paper, 2mm thick) under the wood....so your choice my friend.....what do you think PD's? :?: :?: ....leeave it off cos there's enough hot air coming from D.W to boil the bl***y water....or what? :?: :?: :clap2 :great :angel
11/11 is the day of publication...correct.. :bravo :news
and yes...said publication is carrying the review of the 'Taipan' outfit. :no1 :terrific :yeah
keep happy :D :D :D :D :) :) :wink: :wink:
Sandy
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Derek...the two inlets are for use on HIGH days..and LOW days...I will leave you to figure out which one is used for which...... (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/hehe.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/hehe.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/wavetowel3.gif)
I am sure the ather PD's will back me up on this one (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/respect2.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/respect4.gif)
But several 1000 posts ago...someone asked about draining the lubricator into the condenser...THE OTHER PIPE IS FOR THIS.....the smaller (diameter) of the two is for the discharge from the lubricator...what you will have to conekt wiv a bit of tube and a stop valve...I placed it at a high level cos if it were down the bottom, then the entire contents would be blown out of the funnel outlet when you kracked the said steam valve open.... (http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/yeahbaby.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/terrific.gif)(http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/oops.gif)
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Hi PD’s & yes Sandy the fog is clearing & I can see better now, however I must use the 5/32” inlet to drain the lubricator with an isolation valve thank you, then the 1/8” inlet to the condenser for the unrestricted exist oily steam from the engine
I have sorted all of the tubing connection issues so when convenient could you please raise another PAYPAL invoice for the extras to date PLUS
one x 5/32” tube x tube size straight globe valve
two x 5/32” tube x tube 90 degree elbows [same as the last one with the red paint]
sufficient COMSOL HT [does this mean high tension?] solder – sufficient for say 26 tube soldered tube connections Â
[I was going to say joints, but know the police are watching everything – I gave up smoking conventional ciggies 4 years ago & don’t touch the other stuff] – mind you, as most know I don’t mind the odd drop of good Australian grape juice
BTW – is zinc chloride flux OK with COMSOL? – their WEB site doesn’t mention - Derek
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Hi PD's - Sandy & I have been discussing marine boiler issues off site & he has convinced me that I was incorrect in my thought that the combined gas equasion [you know P1V1T1=P2V2T2] would work differently south of the equator with our lower pressures which match out lower latitude etc :oops: :oops:
So from this I have engaged a crew of 1/25 scale shipwrights to ADZE their way & make a hole in the FWD watertight bulkhead of sufficient size to allow the boiler burner to be removed for ignition purposes in accordance with the manufacturers instruction :!: :!: :!:
Only real problem with this is that (LL) - [Larry :?: Lloyd] - {Lloyds of London} will now reclassify Decoy as not fit for opean sea work & now insure her for the Murray river system only :roll:
Sandy has also convinced me :cry: :cry: that Decoy will need as much scale boiler tubing as a 100,000 tonner, so could I make this the last shopping list & rescind all others please
1) all previously supplied extras
2) one x 1/8" tube to 90 degree globe valve with the 0.247" thread [same as the boiler steam valve]
3) two x 5/32" tube x tube 90 degree elbows with the red paint
4) one x 1/8" tube x tube 90 degree elbow with the red paint
5) sufficient COMSOL solder for 30 soldered connections
6) air parcel post to OZ
Sorry - must away, have just been called to attend a :gather with the shipwrights as they are having trouble with some big bronze nails in the bulkhead :twisted: - Derek
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Hi PD's & here is a comment from OZ & question for Tony across the ditch [NZ] that is :D
It appears that we have a little bit of beaurocratic or overly zealous law reviewers here in OZ with regard to acceptance of 'boiler certification', however they have the upper hand & thank goodness Sandy @ ACS has provided song & verse :music :music re the requirements of my boilers construction to satisify the....... OZ inspector :hmph :nose
One point for Eddy, with respect to the last pasted EMOTICON, is there not another version of this where the said person appears to be inserting a finger at a little lower down on their posterior & @ 180 degrees to their front :oops :sob :?:
So Tony, did you not mention of a coal fired boiler being constructed in UK :?: , from my experience :oops: possibly it may be best to check your boiler doctors in NZ to understand any ramifications etc
Oh BTW, if you have a 1/12 scale boiler do the NZ laws provide for a 1/12 scale certificate :?: - so if this is the case, my OZ certificate @ 1/25 scale may best be displayed with a magnifing glass :news :darn - Derek
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Hi Derek,
as far as certification of model boilers go, I should be OK. Our club is affiliated to the Auckland Society of Model Engineers. Within ASME there is a subcommittee of engineers which is duly authorised to inspect and certify model boilers.
This service extends to the Scale Marine Modellers Society as well as ASME and, I understand, to other model engineering societies in New Zealand as well.
Something to be aware of though - I'm sure that as successive governments legislate to destroy our individual freedoms in the name of "Nanny State" and 'protecting the public' that the certifying of model boilers will come under stricter legislative scrutiny.
Regards
Tony
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Hi PD’s & thanks for the comment Tony – the person so named in my attachment is the same person I noted as possibly a little over zealous, but in reality & as I have noted to Sandy that I need to bite the bullet & accept that these people are simply covering their own rear end, get the boiler “PS Decoy S/N 74682” pressure tested here in my home city & an AALS certificate issued – how is the new office? – regards Derek
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From: Khephre [mailto:drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 6:58 AM
To: drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk
Subject: RE: Steam engines
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Hi Derek,
as far as certification of model boilers go, I should be OK. Our club is affiliated to the Auckland Society of Model Engineers. Within ASME there is a subcommittee of engineers which is duly authorised to inspect and certify model boilers.
This service extends to the Scale Marine Modellers Society as well as ASME and, I understand, to other model engineering societies in New Zealand as well.
Something to be aware of though - I'm sure that as successive governments legislate to destroy our individual freedoms in the name of "Nanny State" and 'protecting the public' that the certifying of model boilers will come under stricter legislative scrutiny.
Regards
Tony
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